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Cleaning for Carbon

D

DocRDS

Head Maffs Monkey
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 21, 2012
3,990
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The Great Beyond
#1
Had my first carbon ring cause issues and of course, now am paranoid.

Got the borescope gave it a thorough cleaning. What the F am I looking for?

Here'a pic with and without a piece of brass

1750905399804.jpg


1750905408785.jpg


Which area am I trying to scrub out--when i was getting marks on bullets, im guessing it was in the throat, but there is that black shadow right there at the edge of the chamber--which one am I trying to remove?
 
#7
I had an older 6.5 CM barrel that still had some life left in it with a carbon ring. I let it soak with Boretech for a while, but patches did not do anything.

Because it was an older barrel and I had little to lose, I chucked up a bronze 30 caliber brush on a section of cleaning rod in a cordless drill and used a high quality bore guide, I carefully spun it for about 15 seconds without letting the rod come in contact with anything. This process took the carbon ring out very quickly and did absolutely no damage to the barrel whatsoever. I proceeded to shoot a sub .3 MOA group with it after cleaning.

I would not make a habit of attaching a bore brush to a drill, but a bronze brush when properly/carefully used is not going to hurt anything.
 
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#8
matt33 said:
I had an older 6.5 CM barrel that still had some life left in it with a carbon ring. I let it soak with Boretech for a while, but patches did not do anything.

Because it was an older barrel and I had little to lose, I chucked up a bronze 30 caliber brush on a section of cleaning rod in a cordless drill and used a high quality bore guide, I carefully spun it for about 15 seconds without letting the rod come in contact with anything. This process took the carbon ring out very quickly and did absolutely no damage to the barrel whatsoever. I proceeded to shoot a sub .3 MOA group with it after cleaning.

I would not make a habit of attaching a bore brush to a drill, but a bronze brush when properly/carefully used is not going to hurt anything.
Click to expand...
I've done this as well with the same results. :cool:
 
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#9
I recently discovered a way to get rid of carbon rings pretty easily without a brush or a drill.

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Competition Events - Cleaning for Competitions

Everyone and their mother has a different cleaning regime. Different products, different process and different definitions of what cleaning is. For many years my cleaning process for precision rifles has been follow boretech instructions. Maybe do a cycle or 2. Gun shoots well again and is...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com

FYI. I’m not wading into a debate about brushes and drills. I just follow @Frank Green ’s advice.
 
#10
A bronze brush with a petroleum solvent will not damage barrel steel. There are literally decades of proof out there.

Any brush (nylon and bronze) used with an abrasive (Ilosso, JB, Butch) can damage barrel steel if used incorrectly.
 
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#11
Couple further questions (feel free to mock my noob-ness and use of borescope)

Here is the start of my throat (lands to upper right). Do I need to worry about the discoloration? I've pounded this barrel with cleaner and elbow grease (Its the same barrel as above). My though is, its clean enough to shoot (1500+ rounds on this one). I stand to be corrected.

1750984909318.jpg


Near the throat the riflling looks a little carbon-ized. Is this something to obsess over or just drive on.

1750984811522.jpg
 
#13
Not sure which thread it was in, but someone mentioned cleaning til the carbon was gone, vs cleaning til all the carbon *staining* was gone.

I'll admit, that was a face-palm moment for me. Probably been cleaning way more than I needed to, to get those last black streaks out.
 
#14
memilanuk said:
Not sure which thread it was in, but someone mentioned cleaning til the carbon was gone, vs cleaning til all the carbon *staining* was gone.

I'll admit, that was a face-palm moment for me. Probably been cleaning way more than I needed to, to get those last black streaks out.
Click to expand...

I’m probably guilty of this also. Also, I’ve noticed that sometimes the dark streaks are shadows of the lands. As I gain experience with the borescope, turning it as it moves in the bore eliminates the land shadow and reveals the carbon or lack thereof.
 
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#15
THanks guys I appreciate it. I'm calling it good for now. Main goal is to avoid those pressure problems and not go OCD over complete bore cleanliness like the F-Class doods (no offense F-class doods). IF I evver get good at F-class, maybe I'll let the OCD go hog wild, but I got too much **** to do to spend hours cleaning a rifle.
 
#16
Recently had to deal with trying to get a carbon ring out of my Bergara B14R. I tried a couple of things to clean it and what took care of it was the BoreTech carbon remover. Soaked a patch and let it sit in the chamber for 15 minutes. Then I used a bore tech nylon bristle brush and it barely got any of it out. Then I soaked the brush in the carbon remover and gave it 20 strokes on the chamber with a brass pistol rod. This got a good bit of it out. Repeated the soaking brush in carbon remover /scrub and it was nice and. I was using a borescope at each step so I could clearly see the progress.
 
#17
Heavily wetted patch soak for 15 mins with CLR, bronze brush, short rod, Milwaukee drill, 5 seconds of spinning with the drill, carbon gone.......flush with alcohol patches after to neutralize the clr they say, but I just usually run 2-3 patches of eliminator after and 3-4 dry patches. Been doing it this way for handful of years, no issues.

Sometimes this doesn't get it all, as copper laying will imgregante atop carbon(after many rounds of not cleaning) this can require abrasives or traditional brushing with copper agents in between the clr process.

Do not clean to bare metal, leave some the staining in there. It's a good thing and your know velocity should normalize quickly. Clean that to bare metal and it'll take several rounds to come back.
 
#18
I had a carbon ring buildup on my 6.5 PRC this past weekend. The rifle only has ~250 rounds down the barrel all of which have been factory hornady ammo. Is that carbon buildup normal and is there anything I can do to prevent it?

I wish I had found this thread before i cleaned it. I ran a nylon brush through it a lot, let swabs soak with bore tech cleaner and after what felt like a million patches I got it clean enough it feeds rounds without marking up the bullet.
 
#19
mdoolin said:
I had a carbon ring buildup on my 6.5 PRC this past weekend. The rifle only has ~250 rounds down the barrel all of which have been factory hornady ammo. Is that carbon buildup normal and is there anything I can do to prevent it?

I wish I had found this thread before i cleaned it. I ran a nylon brush through it a lot, let swabs soak with bore tech cleaner and after what felt like a million patches I got it clean enough it feeds rounds without marking up the bullet.
Click to expand...
I think some of these modern high performance smaller caliber cartridges are more prone to carbon rings. That fact, combined with the fact that a lot of shooters seem to be adverse from using a bronze or brass brush. There is also now more awareness due to borescopes being in common usage.

One thing that has helped me is keeping my brass at maximum trim length. In my case, 6.5 Creedmoor I keep at 1.920", I trim as part of every reload using a Henderson trimmer which is fast and easy.
 
#20
Saami 6.5prc has a freebore diameter of 0.2645, that's a half thou over bullet, and a quarter thou clearance on all sides. Factor in some reamer wear and that clearance is even less. It doesnt take much to start causing problems. I typically order my reamers 001-0015 over bullet diameter in the freebore spec. So it'd be 265-2655 for a prc.
 
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#21
mdoolin said:
I had a carbon ring buildup on my 6.5 PRC this past weekend. The rifle only has ~250 rounds down the barrel all of which have been factory hornady ammo. Is that carbon buildup normal and is there anything I can do to prevent it?

I wish I had found this thread before i cleaned it. I ran a nylon brush through it a lot, let swabs soak with bore tech cleaner and after what felt like a million patches I got it clean enough it feeds rounds without marking up the bullet.
Click to expand...
The only way to prevent it is to clean it after every firing. Not trimming your cases excessively short helps a little but overtime it will still build up.I clean my barrel every firing and never have a problem. Use the next size up brush and flitz bore cleaner. Removes the ring lickety split.
 
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#22
Carbon rings seem to build up on the transition collar; i.e. where the neck area transitions to the freebore. Most modern calibres that is at 45°. As SAAMI neck diameters are usually quite wide, this leaves quite a large area for carbon to adhere to.

Two ways can be used to reduce the buildup or even eliminate it. One way is to ensure that the chamber neck diameter is minimised; your so-called tight neck chambers.

Another way is to change the angle of the transition. Manson Reamers are trying that out now with their T30 reamer for .308 and T15 reamer for .223.
 
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#23
I trim my cases 0.015-0.020 short of chamber depth. If you're putting enough rounds between cleaning to cause problems from the chamber case mouth to freebore transition, you're doing very long cleaning intervals, or your not trimming far enough, or too infrequently. A loaded round case neck diameter to chamber neck should have 004 thou clearance minimum. Anything less is tight neck in my opinion and that rifle should be cleaned regularly. A quick easy check for this, try inserting a bullet into a fired case neck(that's not deformed from ejection or hitting thr ground). If there is resistance to bullet movement, thats a problem to me. I will neck turn at that point. I spec reamers accordingly to my loaded case dimensions. Carbon buildup in the chamber neck can and will cause issues if you don't have adequate clearance between loaded necks and chamber neck ID.

I'd venture to say 90% of carbon ring induced pressure issues are coming from the freebore/leade area. Some powders are far worse than others. It depends on how far you're jumping the bullet too. I know on my 65cm comp barrel burning 40gr of H4350 I could go 500 rounds of stable velocity without cleaning. Switch over to RL16 and after 100 rounds I was getting carbon ring problems. Viht N150 same thing, velocity starts increasing after 120 rounds of no cleaning, and it takes some work to clean the throat. I try to get my rifles shooting well with Varg H4350 H4831sc H1000, as they're by far the cleanest in their burn rate categories.
 
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#24
DocRDS said:
Had my first carbon ring cause issues and of course, now am paranoid.

Got the borescope gave it a thorough cleaning. What the F am I looking for?

Here'a pic with and without a piece of brass

View attachment 8715637

View attachment 8715638

Which area am I trying to scrub out--when i was getting marks on bullets, im guessing it was in the throat, but there is that black shadow right there at the edge of the chamber--which one am I trying to remove?
Click to expand...
I just had the same issue Wednesday. Met a very experienced guy that was going to help me with several things, one being making sure my rifle is set up correctly and I had good dope out to 1100 yards. Started out good and then I couldn't hit anything. He shot it and the same thing so we knew it was the rifle or possibly my reloading which is quite possible since I am new to it.

My throat area had a ton of carbon build up and also had quite a bit right where the lands starts so hoping this was the issue. I didn't have a boroscope so feel like an idiot now and bought one yesterday. Evidently between my previous cleaner I was using and my cleaning method I thought I was cleaning it good but obviously I wasn't. Barrel seemed to be clean but didn't realise so much carbon was building up in the throat area.
 
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