brand new car urge

#201
rjacobs said:
There are literally a ton of people who have proven that they last quite a while at that power level...

Again if he's going to go beating on the car constantly I dont disagree with you that a built motor is the better way to go, but for the occasional blast, it'll be fine and there are tons of examples out there of that.
Click to expand...
And there are a ton of people with damaged engines after a few thousand miles, which is very likely to happen. Why chance it, just fucking do i right.

That piston is out of a F-150's 5.0 with a stage 1 Whipple on their tune, 7,000 miles on the engine 2,000 with the blower.
 
#203
GreenGO Juan said:
And there are a ton of people with damaged engines after a few thousand miles, which is very likely to happen. Why chance it, just fucking do i right.

That piston is out of a F-150's 5.0 with a stage 1 Whipple on their tune, 7,000 miles on the engine 2,000 with the blower.
Click to expand...
Lots of people have made good power with a blower anda stock bottem end safely with a GOOD tune. If I am going in deeper then slapping a blower on it, I am going fully built and twin turboskis.
 
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#206
sloporsche said:
A caddy dealer in ft walton has 2 blackwings a ct4v [which i like how its optioned ] and a ct5v which is stick and fuggly color [ i do not like] . They are stalling me for 2 more weeks trying to get msrp on the 4 then they said they will entertain an offer . I have not driven either but the word seems that the 4 is better suited for me . The brain dead ford dealer is playing e mail tag with me over if they are certified to install the blower 100 % on a new darkhorse [which of course i would have to order] . The only thing these hillbillies want to sell this carpetbagger is a pickup truck off their lot . I am about to go sherman on them lol
Click to expand...

It's probably worth a 6 or 7 hour drive south to shop in the Tampa or Sarasota area for your Caddy.
North Tampa has a Caddy dealership, Brandon has one, and I'm very sure Sarasota has at least one

Lakeland area has a number of high end dealerships on the Whorelando side.

Anyway, just a thought.
 
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#207
Mike Casselton said:
It's probably worth a 6 or 7 hour drive south to shop in the Tampa or Sarasota area for your Caddy.
North Tampa has a Caddy dealership, Brandon has one, and I'm very sure Sarasota has at least one

Lakeland area has a number of high end dealerships on the Whorelando side.

Anyway, just a thought.
Click to expand...
I have one real close but he also is chevy/buick and gmc but a large pick up dealer in truth and no blackwings or z06's [ i did visit] . The ft walton is 2 hours one way and has the blackwings [i did not visit] they have me on stall for 2 more weeks if no one gives them msrp they might entertain an offer on a ct4v blackwing but i am thinking about ordering a 2026 . I am in talks with the close ford dealer about a dark horse mustang and a ford supercharger kit [would have to be ordered car too] but there is a warranty issue that i want to read first about the kit , i am coming to realize that i will have to order what it want . Plus i am still hot n cold on an ordering an e ray corvette IF they come in a fixed roof coup . Add to the mix i am test running a dozen magazines , a red dot scope , breaking in a new AK and trying new ammo for the AK,s and looking to add a m92 zap to the fold . ...........and my yankees are only doing so so lol
 
#210
sloporsche said:
. I am in talks with the close ford dealer about a dark horse mustang and a ford supercharger kit [would have to be ordered car too] but there is a warranty issue that i want to read first about the kit
Click to expand...
Throwing a blower on a none prepped engine is not a wise move.

1752582964541.gif


another example of what is will do.

2019 F150, Gen 4 2.9 Liter whipple stage 2.
bought truck new with dealer installed whipple
Running Standard stage 2 whipple tune with 91 octane.
Truck has 8,800 miles.
Truck failed while towing my f100 back from the dunes.
CEL lights:
P0300,302,306,316
just was informed by the dealer today they are replacing the short block and heads under warranty and that piston 6 rings failed.
I am pretty bummed about this. hope it was a fluke. bought this truck as a fun truck and a truck to tow my f100 from time to time but now that the engine failed, im skeptical about continued use as a tow rig.
is piston rings failure common? Im wondering if its a lack of enough ring gap like the boosted LS engines have problems with.
 
#214
GreenGO Juan said:
And there are a ton of people with damaged engines after a few thousand miles, which is very likely to happen. Why chance it, just fucking do i right.

That piston is out of a F-150's 5.0 with a stage 1 Whipple on their tune, 7,000 miles on the engine 2,000 with the blower.
Click to expand...

If he buys new, has a 3/36k on the power train with the blower...who cares... yea its a pain in the ass, but its literally warrantied... Sounds like your ass hurts because you have a blown up 5.0 with a whipple... bet the dealer is completely covering it under warranty right???

And there is no fucking way in hell I would tell him "oh buy a brand new 75k+ dollar car and then have the motor built for an additional 15-20k to take the blower". I would say "buy a different car because that plan sounds stupid"...

0-60 on a whipple S650 GT is reported in the mid to low 3 second range with the 10spd...
0-60 on a stock Z51 C8 Stingray is low 3's to high 2's...
DCT and mid engine weight shift plus 400+ lbs lighter...

1/4 mile on a whipple S650 GT, there have been guys go low 10's high 9's.
1/4 mile on a Z51 C8 Stingray is low 11's...
1/4 mile is where the HP of the blower shines and you cant replace HP...

But I still say a C8 Stingray on the street is wicked fun, much more fun than the Mustang(GT in stock form), and way more HP than you can really use on the street.

Im still in the camp of the OP getting a C8 over a Dark Horse, I guess because I have direct experience comparing both cars(my GT perf pack on the street is basically the same car as a dark horse) and the C8 is head and shoulders above the mustang. I would sell my mustang if my wife would allow it, but she loves riding in it with the top down and our kid in the back.
 
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#215
sloporsche said:
Plus i am still hot n cold on an ordering an e ray corvette IF they come in a fixed roof coup .
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by fixed roof coupe. You have targa and you have HTC i.e. hard top convertible.

My car is a targa... I have zero rattles or squeaks out of it. Noise from the targa complaints exist, but they are far far far down the list as far as people's gripes about the car. The HTC has its own set of issues with problems with the cables, the motor, etc... plus you cant see the engine through the back window which was one of the things I wanted. The targa itself is really damn light. I have the clear top...DO NOT GET ONE. It cooks you to death and the only remedy is an insert that suction cups onto the inside. The company that makes them does a nice job and they look decent, but its a waste of money to buy the clear top IMO... My car was bought off a dealer lot like that, I would never order a car with the clear top.
 
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#217
rjacobs said:
If he buys new, has a 3/36k on the power train with the blower...who cares... yea its a pain in the ass, but its literally warrantied... Sounds like your ass hurts because you have a blown up 5.0 with a whipple... bet the dealer is completely covering it under warranty right???

And there is no fucking way in hell I would tell him "oh buy a brand new 75k+ dollar car and then have the motor built for an additional 15-20k to take the blower". I would say "buy a different car because that plan sounds stupid"...

0-60 on a whipple S650 GT is reported in the mid to low 3 second range with the 10spd...
0-60 on a stock Z51 C8 Stingray is low 3's to high 2's...
DCT and mid engine weight shift plus 400+ lbs lighter...

1/4 mile on a whipple S650 GT, there have been guys go low 10's high 9's.
1/4 mile on a Z51 C8 Stingray is low 11's...
1/4 mile is where the HP of the blower shines and you cant replace HP...

But I still say a C8 Stingray on the street is wicked fun, much more fun than the Mustang(GT in stock form), and way more HP than you can really use on the street.

Im still in the camp of the OP getting a C8 over a Dark Horse, I guess because I have direct experience comparing both cars(my GT perf pack on the street is basically the same car as a dark horse) and the C8 is head and shoulders above the mustang. I would sell my mustang if my wife would allow it, but she loves riding in it with the top down and our kid in the back.
Click to expand...
yes break things because its warrentied.

just brilliant. You sound like the 2020 protestors who think destroying property is okay because it's insured.

Or you could correct the issue on the front end and not worry about it.

Gapping the rings, changing the exhaust valves and better springs is not 15K.

Not even with rods and pistons, which you don't need but would be insurance.
 
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#220
GreenGO Juan said:
yes break things because its warrentied.

just brilliant. You sound like the 2020 protestors who think destroying property is okay because it's insured.

Or you could correct the issue on the front end and not worry about it.

Gapping the rings, changing the exhaust valves and better springs is not 15K.

Not even with rods and pistons, which you don't need but would be insurance.
Click to expand...

When did I say basically "purposely break things" as you are insinuating??? I didnt. I have said many times FORD will honor the warranty with their blower package on the car. FORD has a lot more experience and engineering into that to say "we will guarantee this for 3/36k"... My point is if Ford is willing to honor the 3/36k even WITH the blower... who cares if the motor blows up... let Ford take care of it.

In your case you say "pull the motor apart on a brand new car and do xyz to keep this from happening" and then, GUESS WHAT, you ACTUALLY HAVE NO WARRANTY from that point forward... that sounds real smart...

I can buy the ring gap theory due to higher cylinder pressures and temps.

Coyote's have stainless exhaust valves from the factory... so what does changing exhaust valves gain you? I mean you could go to inconel to handle some more heat...

And why "better" valve springs? Coyote's will spin to 7k+ on factory valve springs just fine and do that for 100's of thousands of miles... Putting a heavier spring in "just because" is not really a fix for anything except increased cam, valve train and valve seat wear. If you dont need a higher rate spring in order to control valve train at higher RPM's, just putting them in for the sake of putting them in is pointless. So now you have a valve train that is pushing against a higher rate spring to open valves as well as trying to open valves against boost... I can "sort of" buy higher rate intake valve springs on an FI car to help keep the valve closed while the intake tract is pressurized... but again valve spring rate needs to be matched to RPM capabilities otherwise you are just wearing parts for the sake of wearing parts... The other part of valve springs getting changed is if you change cams and the springs you have will hit coil bind with a higher lift cam. Ive been through the gamut of spring selection when building my current road race motor... singles, doubles, bee-hive vs. conical, rates, installed height, coil bind, resonance frequencies, etc... There is so much more to valve spring selection than just "I want better springs"...
 
#221
If i go the mustang /supercharger route i will have gone over the warranty very closely ,over on a dark horse forum there is a sticky on fords warranty limits on stage 1 and stage 2 . A few were saying they are forgoing the SC because to them the car is fast enough........myself i have never had too much power just not enough traction lol
 
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#222
rjacobs said:
When did I say basically "purposely break things" as you are insinuating??? I didnt. I have said many times FORD will honor the warranty with their blower package on the car. FORD has a lot more experience and engineering into that to say "we will guarantee this for 3/36k"... My point is if Ford is willing to honor the 3/36k even WITH the blower... who cares if the motor blows up... let Ford take care of it.

In your case you say "pull the motor apart on a brand new car and do xyz to keep this from happening" and then, GUESS WHAT, you ACTUALLY HAVE NO WARRANTY from that point forward... that sounds real smart...

I can buy the ring gap theory due to higher cylinder pressures and temps.

Coyote's have stainless exhaust valves from the factory... so what does changing exhaust valves gain you? I mean you could go to inconel to handle some more heat...

And why "better" valve springs? Coyote's will spin to 7k+ on factory valve springs just fine and do that for 100's of thousands of miles... Putting a heavier spring in "just because" is not really a fix for anything except increased cam, valve train and valve seat wear. If you dont need a higher rate spring in order to control valve train at higher RPM's, just putting them in for the sake of putting them in is pointless. So now you have a valve train that is pushing against a higher rate spring to open valves as well as trying to open valves against boost... I can "sort of" buy higher rate intake valve springs on an FI car to help keep the valve closed while the intake tract is pressurized... but again valve spring rate needs to be matched to RPM capabilities otherwise you are just wearing parts for the sake of wearing parts... The other part of valve springs getting changed is if you change cams and the springs you have will hit coil bind with a higher lift cam. Ive been through the gamut of spring selection when building my current road race motor... singles, doubles, bee-hive vs. conical, rates, installed height, coil bind, resonance frequencies, etc... There is so much more to valve spring selection than just "I want better springs"...
Click to expand...

Not sure why you bother responding to that troll.

I can’t see his shit-stirring comments because I’ve had him on ignore since forever, but applaud your passion! Seriously.

That said, I have a lot less stress without having to even scroll past his nonsensical ramblings. LoL
 
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#223
An OBTW @sloporsche you’ve now cost me $250K by opening the forbidden “new car shopping” and “car projects” doors in my mind…

New M5 Wagon for my wife, and already in talks with Sarasota Super Performance on a V8 Miata build too! I’d do it myself, but my home shop/lift is already backed up with my Raptor rebuild, and various projects on my Cayman. Looks like I won’t take delivery of that Miata until next winter though…I suppose him being backed up w/work is a good sign though, eh?

That will at least allow me time to finish rebuilding my truck, and get started on the track car conversion on my Cayman though.
 
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#224
91Eunozs said:
An OBTW @sloporsche you’ve now cost me $250K by opening the forbidden “new car shopping” and “car projects” doors in my mind…

New M5 Wagon for my wife, and already in talks with Sarasota Super Performance on a V8 Miata build too! I’d do it myself, but my home shop/lift is already backed up with my Raptor rebuild, and various projects on my Cayman. Looks like I won’t take delivery of that Miata until next winter though…I suppose him being backed up w/work is a good sign though, eh?

That will at least allow me time to finish rebuilding my truck, and get started on the track car conversion on my Cayman though.
Click to expand...
life is good
 
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#225
GreenGO Juan said:
Throwing a blower on a none prepped engine is not a wise move.

View attachment 8728226

another example of what is will do.

2019 F150, Gen 4 2.9 Liter whipple stage 2.
bought truck new with dealer installed whipple
Running Standard stage 2 whipple tune with 91 octane.
Truck has 8,800 miles.
Truck failed while towing my f100 back from the dunes.
CEL lights:
P0300,302,306,316
just was informed by the dealer today they are replacing the short block and heads under warranty and that piston 6 rings failed.
I am pretty bummed about this. hope it was a fluke. bought this truck as a fun truck and a truck to tow my f100 from time to time but now that the engine failed, im skeptical about continued use as a tow rig.
is piston rings failure common? Im wondering if its a lack of enough ring gap like the boosted LS engines have problems with.
Click to expand...

LOL.

You are on here preaching about the need to fully build the rotating assembly on any NA engine if forced induction is going to be introduced, even for low boost levels.

Now we find that you have blown up a 5.0L Ford in your F150 that you use as a towing platform after deciding to buy it with an aggressive Whipple stage 2 blower and accompanying tune. Again to reiterate, on a truck to be used for towing on a regular basis.

So you’ve elected to use a truck with a light duty engine, with a power adder that reduces the duty cycle further, and then utilize it in an application requiring a higher continuous power output (more demanding duty cycle)?

1.) Your example is an apples and dump trucks comparison to slapping a twin screw blower on a Mustang tasked with occasionally yeeting a 4000lb car down a freeway on ramp.

No shit you blew up your 5.0L V8 engine with a stage 2 Whipple and stage 2 tune using it to motivate a 6000lb truck and a 7000lb (estimate) trailer.

2.) If you want big power and big torque for a tow pig, buy a 3/4 or 1 ton with a turbo diesel. They’re super popular in this application for a reason.

3.) Sorry you’re going through this learning the lesson the hard way. At least it’s under warranty.
 
#226
RUN8 said:
LOL.

You are on here preaching about the need to fully build the rotating assembly on any NA engine if forced induction is going to be introduced, even for low boost levels.

Now we find that you have blown up a 5.0L Ford in your F150 that you use as a towing platform after deciding to buy it with an aggressive Whipple stage 2 blower and accompanying tune. Again to reiterate, on a truck to be used for towing on a regular basis.

So you’ve elected to use a truck with a light duty engine, with a power adder that reduces the duty cycle further, and then utilize it in an application requiring a higher continuous power output (more demanding duty cycle)?

1.) Your example is an apples and dump trucks comparison to slapping a twin screw blower on a Mustang tasked with occasionally yeeting a 4000lb car down a freeway on ramp.

No shit you blew up your 5.0L V8 engine with a stage 2 Whipple and stage 2 tune using it to motivate a 6000lb truck and a 7000lb (estimate) trailer.

2.) If you want big power and big torque for a tow pig, buy a 3/4 or 1 ton with a turbo diesel. They’re super popular in this application for a reason.

3.) Sorry you’re going through this learning the lesson the hard way. At least it’s under warranty.
Click to expand...
if you put the ese on ignore you will save on aspirins
 
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#229
rjacobs said:
When did I say basically "purposely break things" as you are insinuating??? I didnt. I have said many times FORD will honor the warranty with their blower package on the car. FORD has a lot more experience and engineering into that to say "we will guarantee this for 3/36k"... My point is if Ford is willing to honor the 3/36k even WITH the blower... who cares if the motor blows up... let Ford take care of it.

In your case you say "pull the motor apart on a brand new car and do xyz to keep this from happening" and then, GUESS WHAT, you ACTUALLY HAVE NO WARRANTY from that point forward... that sounds real smart...

I can buy the ring gap theory due to higher cylinder pressures and temps.

Coyote's have stainless exhaust valves from the factory... so what does changing exhaust valves gain you? I mean you could go to inconel to handle some more heat...

And why "better" valve springs? Coyote's will spin to 7k+ on factory valve springs just fine and do that for 100's of thousands of miles... Putting a heavier spring in "just because" is not really a fix for anything except increased cam, valve train and valve seat wear. If you dont need a higher rate spring in order to control valve train at higher RPM's, just putting them in for the sake of putting them in is pointless. So now you have a valve train that is pushing against a higher rate spring to open valves as well as trying to open valves against boost... I can "sort of" buy higher rate intake valve springs on an FI car to help keep the valve closed while the intake tract is pressurized... but again valve spring rate needs to be matched to RPM capabilities otherwise you are just wearing parts for the sake of wearing parts... The other part of valve springs getting changed is if you change cams and the springs you have will hit coil bind with a higher lift cam. Ive been through the gamut of spring selection when building my current road race motor... singles, doubles, bee-hive vs. conical, rates, installed height, coil bind, resonance frequencies, etc... There is so much more to valve spring selection than just "I want better springs"...
Click to expand...
Yes ring gap and Inconel to deal with the heat. 100%.

Yeah, what a prick I must be telling you not to stop light race and how to mod the engine to last

What a dick I am
 
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#232
GreenGO Juan said:
Yes ring gap and Inconel to deal with the heat. 100%.

Yeah, what a prick I must be telling you not to stop light race and how to mod the engine to last

What a dick I am
Click to expand...

Wasnt thinking you were a dick...more like a mouth breathing cock sucking moron... but I digress..

And its funny you think "gapping rings, putting better exhaust valves and better springs" in a motor is "how to mod the engine to last"... LOL... I could list out my road race motor build with all the parts I am putting in to "make it last" and ring gap, exhaust valves and better springs are pretty far down my list... Rings will be gapped PROPERLY for my application. Using factory LS3 stainless exhaust valves. GM springs have great longevity, but they wont work with my cam spec so they get replaced with BTR .660 Platinum springs and titanium retainers... Ive got a list of a few other parts going in to ACTUALLY help with longevity... those 3 things arent it though.

GreenGO Juan said:
View attachment 8728463

View attachment 8728464

View attachment 8728465

View attachment 8728466

I could literally do this all day.
Click to expand...

I have never once argued against larger ring gaps for a boosted motor so not sure why you keep riding that big black horse cock... I will continue to argue against opening up a brand new factory motor to increase ring gap to put a blower on when Ford and Whipple will warranty that shit for 3/36k... Its just not necessary at the power levels the stage 1 setup puts out... but bump up to the stage 2 or 3 setup and you may have issues...hence no warranty... I also bet you will cook the damn cats if you go stage 2 or 3... and probably blow up some other stuff in the trans, rear end, etc... Ford has done enough validation to say "at this power level we feel things will last a good long while and are willing to put our money where our mouth is and give that 3/36k mile warranty, BUT if you go above that with a stage 2 or 3 setup, we dont think things will last and thus no warranty"... pretty easy to comprehend IMO... I mean FORD Performance built the fucking tune for it(the stage 1 that is).
 
#233
rjacobs said:
Wasnt thinking you were a dick...more like a mouth breathing cock sucking moron... but I digress..

And its funny you think "gapping rings, putting better exhaust valves and better springs" in a motor is "how to mod the engine to last"... LOL... I could list out my road race motor build with all the parts I am putting in to "make it last" and ring gap, exhaust valves and better springs are pretty far down my list... Rings will be gapped PROPERLY for my application. Using factory LS3 stainless exhaust valves. GM springs have great longevity, but they wont work with my cam spec so they get replaced with BTR .660 Platinum springs and titanium retainers... Ive got a list of a few other parts going in to ACTUALLY help with longevity... those 3 things arent it though.



I have never once argued against larger ring gaps for a boosted motor so not sure why you keep riding that big black horse cock... I will continue to argue against opening up a brand new factory motor to increase ring gap to put a blower on when Ford and Whipple will warranty that shit for 3/36k... Its just not necessary at the power levels the stage 1 setup puts out... but bump up to the stage 2 or 3 setup and you may have issues...hence no warranty... I also bet you will cook the damn cats if you go stage 2 or 3... and probably blow up some other stuff in the trans, rear end, etc... Ford has done enough validation to say "at this power level we feel things will last a good long while and are willing to put our money where our mouth is and give that 3/36k mile warranty, BUT if you go above that with a stage 2 or 3 setup, we dont think things will last and thus no warranty"... pretty easy to comprehend IMO... I mean FORD Performance built the fucking tune for it(the stage 1 that is).
Click to expand...
Awe be still my beating heart. I am not talking about your build.

I am talking about boosting an N/A engine known to have issue when you do it, and you decided to jump in the ring and defend it. Here we are.

One doesn't have to look far to find many of those "stage 1" factory warranted, factory tuned time bombs going off. I have even shown multiple examples of it happening. Even an example of ford actually honoring that warranty, because I have also heard many horror stories of them not. That route is asking for more problems down time and hassle.

I have cracked open a few brand new engines to swap in parts, do port work and other mods, sometimes its the way to go sometimes not. Another thing you could do is pull and sell the OG engine and buy an Aluminator.

To bad the old man is a little bitch and afraid to turn wrenchs. One could build one hell of a bad ass car... especially with the right connections in the area... hint hint. instead he wants to act like an entitled prick. come to think of it fuck it, let him get the dealer service... LOL.
 
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