Brass Work Hardening Analysis by Alpha Munitions
- Thread starter pronelife
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Hopefully in a subsequent video they will show if annealing with popular annealing options really does a “reset” on hardness, and whether annealing over subsequent firings maintains a reset or continues to harden on a shallower curve. I think AMP has done this but I don’t know what brass they used.
Because of what we’ve invested in annealers, I’m not sure I really want to know objective data on downrange performance. I.e., if I wasted money I don’t want to know it. :/
As I've always pointed out, the big issues about annealing vs not annealing is how much is the brass being worked during the cycle of firing and sizing. If a chamber and sizing die are customized to where there's very little movement going on during this cycle, then one can do just fine without any annealing and the data from that Alpha test video supports that hypothesis. But if one has a mass produced factory chamber and likewise a sizing die where there's a lot of movement going on, then annealing can really be a benefit. Then, you have everything in-between.
Here's another annealing test for those here who may not have seen this before (note the gun and the use of the same case each time):
And I've compiled his data on a spread sheet for me to get a better idea of the results:
Thank you. I'm not a statistician but I think it's possible this does not show a statistically significant difference, even if the sample size is kinda small in the grand scheme of things. So to you I say, damnit, why'd you post that and make me feel like I routinely waste time and money?
While I've compared thousands of different loads and rounds from not annealed to those that have been annealed, it's not been a waste of time and money for me. Like I mentioned, whether it's worth it to someone else really depends on the chamber design along with sizing dies and the expectations of the shooter. If one has a factory gun shooting 1 MOA and that's good enough (like for hunting at 200 yds. or less), then yeah. . . I'd think it's a waist of time and money.Given the quality of guns used in that video and the particular cartridge, I was a little surprised at that much difference, as I think 20 rounds each is is enough to say something.
If not, then we're at least left with knowing that annealing does extend the life of one's brass.In absolute terms, @straightshooter1 's un-annealed versus annealed brass raw percentage difference numbers are pretty striking.
- At 100 yards, SS's data shows a 47+ percent increase in group size in un-annealed brass (.34 * 1.48 = .503)
- SD of un-annealed brass increased 76 percent (9.6 * 1.76 = 16.9)
At distance, AB Quantum "Weapon Employment Zone" modeling shows the following probability of hitting a 1-MOA circular target with wind set to 0MPH and everything else "perfect" for the shot (this data for 6.5 Creedmoor 140 ELDM at 2775fps):
- 1000 yards (11"):
- 93% with SD=9.6 and .3-MOA accuracy @100
- 70% with SD=16.9 and .5-MOA accuracy @100
- 500 yards (5.5"):
- 100% with SD=9.6 and .3-MOA accuracy @100
- 98% with SD=16.9 and .5-MOA accuracy @100
Fwiw.
This is what I meant/thought might be the situation. I don’t know that (as a layman) I’d call a 2% probability increase at 500 yards on a 5.5” (small!) target statistically significant — but I’m not the statistician here. It’s basically diminishing marginal returns after having good equipment and a good process to load, and good fundamentals. I’m also the guy with two AMP’s, annealing every time, who still sometimes uses a Prometheus and has untold thousands in fancy ass dies. So I might be bitter and might be biased.
I shoot with a guy that may have more toys than Santa Claus. The Prometheus scale, a tool used to cut single kernels of powder (he's a reformed F-class guy), and every time I turn around he's got a new... something. All manner of calibers; just got into ELR with a .300 Ackley Improved he bought from a mutual friend of ours who thrives on building exotic stuff, shooting 100-200 rounds, and selling it.
In PRS-style matches, he beats me like a drum because he's 10 years younger (barely into his 60s) and his collection of injuries/surgeries hasn't affected his range of motion as it has mine.
But when we shoot from the bench with no time constraints... my ammo loaded on a Dillon progressive with RCBS dies against his ammo made on the best toys in Santa's sack... fired through barrels cut by the same smith... yeah, you're right, @Cynical ... I hang right with him. Maybe, in absolute terms, the returns aren't worth the investment.
But isn't trying to find a "magic bullet" fun? For me, it's not the podium that's the big reward - it's the journey and the experiences and people along the way, and I have no regrets investing in them.
"The Lord commonly gives riches to foolish people, to whom He gives nothing else." - Martin Luther
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