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Sidearms & Scatterguns Home Defense Suggestions

W

Woolsocks

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 24, 2023
192
63
Washington
#1
How about some recommendations for a home defense pistol? Here’s my requirements.

1. Semi-auto, not a wheel gun
2. Must have an old-school thumb safety
3. Must be Washington state compliant
4. Full-size. It’s not for concealed carry.
5. Easy to shoot accurately.
6. Not a 1911
7. One of the common calibers (9, 10, 40, 45)
8. Would like to be able to put a laser sight on it.

I don’t care if it’s metal or plastic, don’t care how it looks, don’t care how much it weighs. My upper limit would probably be $800, but if there’s a utilitarian but reliable pistol for $400, even better.
 
#7
Woolsocks said:
That’s a good option. Was also looking at a beretta PX4. The idea of the rotary barrel reducing muzzle jump intrigues me.
Click to expand...

Rotary barrels are cool, but they don’t really reduce recoil so much that you’d really notice… I ran a Grand Power (rotary barrel) for a couple of seasons of USPSA and they were great, they do shoot really flat, so there is something to it though.

IIRC, the Beretta rotary’s had a habit of cracking their locking blocks, but that was years ago and I never had one myself.
 
#11
IMG_7852.jpeg
 
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#21
Woolsocks said:
How about some recommendations for a home defense pistol? Here’s my requirements.

1. Semi-auto, not a wheel gun
2. Must have an old-school thumb safety
3. Must be Washington state compliant
4. Full-size. It’s not for concealed carry.
5. Easy to shoot accurately.
6. Not a 1911
7. One of the common calibers (9, 10, 40, 45)
8. Would like to be able to put a laser sight on it.

I don’t care if it’s metal or plastic, don’t care how it looks, don’t care how much it weighs. My upper limit would probably be $800, but if there’s a utilitarian but reliable pistol for $400, even better.
Click to expand...
I have written up kind of a reliability tier list before based on owning a shooting range. Given your particular list, I would recommend a CZ P-09 Nocturne F. It is DA/SA, and has an external safety/decocker. It also has a firing pin block as an added measure. It has a modern polymer frame and a reduced weight slide which gives it a very controllable recoil impulse. You can mount a red dot, light, laser on the pistol without having to send it away to get milled. We put our F model in the rental fleet when they came out and it has something like 5,500 rounds through it. We have had no problems with it of any sort. We stuck some random Holosun dot on it and it has held up as well (it has not flung the dot down the range). I think we retail it in the $525 area but routinely sell them for less than 5.

(Just because I saw it, there is a guntube guy with red hair outlaw somebody. He has crazy man love for S&W and CZ. I am pretty sure the first Nocturne he tested had some failure to feed issues. We have not experienced any problems with our pistol nor have we had customers complain about problems).

(If you had more budget, I would include HK (usp, 45, P30), I would include the Beretta 92, I would include the Sig p226).
 
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#22
ut755ln said:
...(Just because I saw it, there is a guntube guy with red hair outlaw somebody. He has crazy man love for S&W and CZ. I am pretty sure the first Nocturne he tested had some failure to feed issues. We have not experienced any problems with our pistol nor have we had customers complain about problems)...
Click to expand...

Honest Outlaw.
 
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#23
ut755ln said:
I have written up kind of a reliability tier list before based on owning a shooting range. Given your particular list, I would recommend a CZ P-09 Nocturne F. It is DA/SA, and has an external safety/decocker. It also has a firing pin block as an added measure. It has a modern polymer frame and a reduced weight slide which gives it a very controllable recoil impulse. You can mount a red dot, light, laser on the pistol without having to send it away to get milled. We put our F model in the rental fleet when they came out and it has something like 5,500 rounds through it. We have had no problems with it of any sort. We stuck some random Holosun dot on it and it has held up as well (it has not flung the dot down the range). I think we retail it in the $525 area but routinely sell them for less than 5.

(Just because I saw it, there is a guntube guy with red hair outlaw somebody. He has crazy man love for S&W and CZ. I am pretty sure the first Nocturne he tested had some failure to feed issues. We have not experienced any problems with our pistol nor have we had customers complain about problems).

(If you had more budget, I would include HK (usp, 45, P30), I would include the Beretta 92, I would include the Sig p226).
Click to expand...

came here to recommend HK as well. i like the trigger on the HK45 better than the P30’s myself.

i do like P30’s over all though.
 
#27
A shotgun is not the way to go.

First, it has limited ammo capacity. Why have a shotgun with a 5-7 round capacity when you can have a 9mm carbine with a 30 round magazine?

Second, if you go with a pump, there is a real possibility that in the heat of the moment, you can short shuck it, failing to load the next round. A semi-auto pcc solves that.

Third, trying to reload a shotgun while under duress is difficult. Do you want to have shells dropping from your shaking hands while trying to get them in the right way into the feeding ramp one at a time or do you want to drop your empty 30 round mag and load a fresh one in a second or two with a pcc.

Lastly, 9mm ammo is much cheaper, which means more practice time, it has less recoil, and provides greater range and accuracy than 12ga.

Also forget about a handgun. They are difficult to use accurately in a stressful situation. A carbine provides 3 points of contact versus one for the handgun. That translates into accuracy. Since you want something that doesn't require a large safe, check out an Extar EP9.
 
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#28
#30
Sossa said:
A shotgun is not the way to go.

First, it has limited ammo capacity. Why have a shotgun with a 5-7 round capacity when you can have a 9mm carbine with a 30 round magazine?

Second, if you go with a pump, there is a real possibility that in the heat of the moment, you can short shuck it, failing to load the next round. A semi-auto pcc solves that.

Third, trying to reload a shotgun while under duress is difficult. Do you want to have shells dropping from your shaking hands while trying to get them in the right way into the feeding ramp one at a time or do you want to drop your empty 30 round mag and load a fresh one in a second or two with a pcc.

Lastly, 9mm ammo is much cheaper, which means more practice time, it has less recoil, and provides greater range and accuracy than 12ga.

Also forget about a handgun. They are difficult to use accurately in a stressful situation. A carbine provides 3 points of contact versus one for the handgun. That translates into accuracy. Since you want something that doesn't require a large safe, check out an Extar EP9.
Click to expand...
Depends on the shotgun

1753338887788.jpeg
 
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#32
So for home defense IMO this is a defensive situation. A shotgun is the choice. If someone comes in in the middle of the night you grab your shotgun and sit on the bed in the master bedroom. You do not leave the room, you are in control there is only one way in the door. You wait patiently, the can go thru the whole house you do not care. You watch that door, if someone breaches it you drop them. At this point the others will flee if not you wait for them to breach the door and shoot them next.
Any other response you are going on offense and jeopardizing your safety. First rule is to live to fight another day.
 
#33
ironpony52 said:
So for home defense IMO this is a defensive situation. A shotgun is the choice. If someone comes in in the middle of the night you grab your shotgun and sit on the bed in the master bedroom. You do not leave the room, you are in control there is only one way in the door. You wait patiently, the can go thru the whole house you do not care. You watch that door, if someone breaches it you drop them. At this point the others will flee if not you wait for them to breach the door and shoot them next.
Any other response you are going on offense and jeopardizing your safety. First rule is to live to fight another day.
Click to expand...
This only works if everyone you are responsible for is in that bedroom. If you have loved ones elsewhere in the house, that plan falls apart. Also only works if it's in the middle of the night. Doesn't work if someone comes thru the patio door at noon while you're making lunch in the kitchen.
 
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#36
Downtown said:
This only works if everyone you are responsible for is in that bedroom. If you have loved ones elsewhere in the house, that plan falls apart. Also only works if it's in the middle of the night. Doesn't work if someone comes thru the patio door at noon while you're making lunch in the kitchen.
Click to expand...

Exactly that is why everyone needs their own plan for their situation. Noon coming in the patio door they will be met with a SIG P365, M18, or P229.
 
#37
Yeah, this thread has gotten a bit of a comedic flair. I wound up going with a good ol’ beretta 92. I did think about a shotgun or tactical rifle option. It’s probably not the best for my situation.

I do view having and being able to use a home defense weapon as a civic duty and part of my responsibility to my family. We have less violence if good people are armed. Speaking from personal experience, though, I’d say it’s important not to escalate a situation beyond where it needs to go. I’ve confronted a few would-be theives, and in all cases calm, authoritative words were enough. Most thieves want to leave as soon as they realize there’s no easy pickings. If I would have over-reacted to those situations, they might have escalated unnecessarily. Maybe it’s different for different people in different places, but that’s been my personal experience.

I like a pistol because (a) I can put it in a bedside safe easily and (b) it gives me the option to only appear as threatening as I want to be. Most of the time im just clipping it to my belt while I check out a funny noise (that turns out to be the Christmas wreath falling off the wall again) or kindly re-directing a confused stoned dude who has vague ideas about life being better inside my house, or asking the redneck in the next campsite over to leash his Rottweiler. None of those are situations that start out with a drawn gun. I’ll probably never need to jump out of bed and start clearing rooms like John Wick, it’s more about having an holstered gun as insurance in case things start escalating.

Anyway, thanks for the help.
 
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#38
Woolsocks said:
... or kindly re-directing a confused stoned dude who has vague ideas about life being better inside my house,...
Click to expand...
Yah, nope.

Outside clomping & rattling around around, maybe some "kind words".

Inside already? That implies B&E. Oohh. Just ooohh nope nopity nope.

Depending upon the State, lethal force is justifiable even if the B&E person is unarmed. Including some incredibly Anti-2A States.
 
#39
ironpony52 said:
So for home defense IMO this is a defensive situation. A shotgun is the choice. If someone comes in in the middle of the night you grab your shotgun and sit on the bed in the master bedroom. You do not leave the room, you are in control there is only one way in the door. You wait patiently, the can go thru the whole house you do not care. You watch that door, if someone breaches it you drop them. At this point the others will flee if not you wait for them to breach the door and shoot them next.
Any other response you are going on offense and jeopardizing your safety. First rule is to live to fight another day.
Click to expand...

I guess you dont have kids...

I have a P226 Tacops and a spare mag and surefire bedside along with a SBR 10" 300blk suppressed.
 
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#40
Glock with a rmr on the slide and a low lumen light so you don’t blind yourself.

In the theoretical situation that the guy is at your feet etc..you don’t want a thumb safety or grip safety getting in the way.

You’ll be groggy, half blind from being startled, not have your glasses on etc, and in a low light situation.

You want to, grab, point in the general direction, and pull until the target is down then reassess.

Simplicity is your friend

If this is the “defending your home” like a crew of guys are breaking in, then you grab your AR with a 30 round mag

If you think you going to stop a “hit” squad by yourself..you’re already dead. Say you’ll blow them because if several guys came to kill you for a reason it’s over. Lots of bad guys dies in the desert thinking they can stop a determined forced every
 
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#42
Different weapons and ammunition choices for different situations. Your circumstances aren't mine and vice versa.

I've often said that an LEO response is at LEAST 40 minutes away for me. Therefore, I traded the ease of some weapon systems for the lethality of a 5.56 rifle. I consider that my primary, but I have a pistol in my nightstand to get me to the rifle... which is only a few more steps away.

I also have reinforced strike plates in all my exterior doors that are screwed into triple studs. Then all of my exterior windows have 3M film on them. Neither will prevent a break in... but you aren't breaching my exterior in under 20 seconds, even with tools. That's more than adequate time for me to come to my senses and prepare a response. I also have a large dog that challenges all strangers.

*****

The liklihood of one lone crackhead trying to force his way into my house at night out here - is much lower than the possibility of 3-4 dudes trying to enter to take everything from me. So I determined what I need to TRY to respond to 3-4 armed dudes, and set up accordingly. I'm already handicapped by numbers, no point in handicapping myself in equipment too.

If I lived by myself in an apartment complex, my setup would be much different.

YMMV.
 
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#43
If you are man enough to hold up a shotgun and can’t train to make pumping an automatic function, you other have problems. Get your dick in the game.

Shotguns are basically mini artillery. They are show stoppers, if you hit your target.

In close quarters with over-penetration concerns (people in other rooms, pets, neighbors) they can be a great choice. Higher capacity models do tend to be longer so that might seem unwieldy in a tighter environment.

Hand guns are the right choice for unknown threats where immediately brandishing a weapon may not be appropriate, or legal (depending on your state)

I have .300 BLK AR pistol. 30 rounds of hate but always a potential for a malfunction so whether it is “pumping” reloading or clearing a malfunction, training is key.

I have faced a 2AM attempted break-in (turned out to be a couple of drunk college kids). I grabbed my nightstand Glock. If I had to do it again it would be the .300 blk (which I built right afterwards, for that reason) or the 590 shotgun. Either would get the job done with the Glock for backup.

Finally it is my firm opinion that if you can’t handle a handgun without a manual safety, you should not be allowed to have a handgun at all. Manual safeties are just another reason to not treat a weapon as loaded, not keep your finger off the trigger, not to keep pointed in a safe direction etc.. What happens if you forget to engage the safety or it gets knocked to the off position? They are the “Binkies” of the gun world. I’d really like to see some hard data on how many accidental discharges were the result of somebody thinking their safety was on.
 
Last edited:
#44
Holliday said:
Finally it is my firm opinion that if you can’t handle a handgun without a manual safety, you should not be allowed to have a handgun at all. Manual safeties are just another reason to not treat a weapon as loaded, not keep your finger off the trigger, not to keep pointed in a safe direction etc.. What happens if you forget to engage the safety or it gets knocked to the off position? They are the “Binkies” of the gun world. I’d really like to see some hard data on how many accidental discharges were the result of somebody thinking their safety was on.
Click to expand...
First off your opinion is worth about 75% less than I paid for it🤣. Manual safeties are great and I carry them most of the time, I also carry sig 229s and have Glocks. But the Manual Safeties on my Dan Wessons, Colts and Wilson’s are spectacular.
 
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