Is the March FX 4.5-28x52 my new ZCO?
- Thread starter Sako man
- Start date
So, it's likely the optics were tracking true to the March QC but by their standard of a milradian. That is pretty interesting actually. I can imagine it causing a flood of returns or owners thinking their optic didn't track.
If anyone is curious as to form factor, here is the ZCO420 vs the 4.5-28.
I’m aware of the different mil dimensions used. This scope was supposedly after the change and it was off in the opposite direction. Honestly that was the least of my concerns, click error was consistent across adjustment tested so could have been handled within DOPE and/or ballistic calculator.
Right. It was a prototype and even further back than I remembered. There were only a few out in the wild.
Short story, but I have my first warranty issue with the March, and I think it's probably because someone at Eurooptic took the right side windage out of the box to put on another optic, just my theory. But it was missing when I got the scope. I called Eurooptic and they said they would take care of it. Anyways got this email from March a week later. So thus far seems like they are taking care of me, this is much better than the experience I had with leupold many years ago.
We received an email from the dealer informing us that the windage turret cap was missing from your scope.
We have shipped the cap today via Japan Post using small packet service.
Please kindly accept the delivery when it arrives.
We sincerely apologize for forgetting to include the cap.
Thank you for your patience until it arrives.
Best regards,
Hiroki Morozumi
Deon Optical Design Corp.
We received an email from the dealer informing us that the windage turret cap was missing from your scope.
We have shipped the cap today via Japan Post using small packet service.
Please kindly accept the delivery when it arrives.
We sincerely apologize for forgetting to include the cap.
Thank you for your patience until it arrives.
Best regards,
Hiroki Morozumi
Deon Optical Design Corp.
I suspect strongly that the riflescope did not leave DEON with a missing turret cap.
Knowing the Japanese, not a chance.
We get it you’re a complete FANBOY! With all due respect though your opinion doesn’t become fact for the entire optics market.
I’d like to take a moment to introduce myself and clear some things up I’ve read in this thread. My name is Brandon Rudge and I am the designer of the FML-WBR reticle and a large portion of the design and influence into the FX 5-42 gen 2 prs model were a result of my direct efforts with March and honestly that’s the scope that we really should all be comparing to the other tier 1 level optics.
The first thing I’ll address is the claim that 9 months is the turnaround time from March that’s simply flat out misleading and incorrect in EVERY regard. The scopes do go back to Japan for repair but the average turn around time is 6-8 weeks which is right on par with every other manufacturer that requires items to be sent back internationally. That being said March is currently working to have some options available to get a loaner scope in the hands of individuals to ease downtime. It’s something that will be worked through and continue to improve.
The next item I’d like to address is the misleading reference to a limited warranty, March falls in line with many other manufactures on 10 year warranty’s for optics. At some point a company must move on from historical models and limit parts production on optics to allow future models to be made. This is no different than any other company and March absolutely will stand behind their optics and do everything possible to directly take care of any customer. You would be VERY hard pressed to find a more passionate team of individuals than those at March who have dedicated their entire lives to optic design.
Finally as a representative for March I will not come in and speak poorly of other brands but I can tell you that the March glass is absolutely second to none, the FOV is incredible and considerably better than much of the market, the reticle offerings for PRS and Fclass are absolutely outstanding, the writable turrets are fantastic for PRS use, the tube thickness and rigidity of the scope is in a class of its own, and the turrets on the FX 5-42 Gen 2 have been reworked and are ABSOLUTELY incredible.
Don’t take my word for it, or snipers hide for that matter go look through one yourself! Find one of the Demo guys who have them or find one on a rifle as they get into the wild and actually go do your own research I bet you’ll be very surprised by what March has done!
I know people at March pretty well. There is no way they forgot a scope cap. Still, they will do the right thing for the customer.
Ilya
Never said ANYONE should listen to me. I was speaking my own opinion and MY position. Everyone will make their own choice. They may be totally excellent these days. I am just not going down this path again. To each their own preference that’s what makes American Great!
I was going to say don't feed the retards. He's just upset that soon enough he won't have any rifles to put his Zco on thanks to the Aus gov.
Anyways, the situation with March is very much like SnB and Kahles now that there are no domestic service centerers. That may be effecting their sales but doesn't detract from there quality products. Frankly I'd rather deal with Japanese than Germans or Austrians, lol.
Great nearly 5 hour discussion with you @Onebadstang16 Glad we got to clear the air while my wife looked at me before she went to bed like WTF? 
Tons of great infomation exchanged, this is why in person or conversations over the phone are 100% better than exchanges on the forum.
-Richard
Tons of great infomation exchanged, this is why in person or conversations over the phone are 100% better than exchanges on the forum. -Richard
March has the SWAG and packaging game on lockdown. My windage cap arrived today via Japan Post.
I am glad they took care of you. They are good people.
Their products sometimes march (pun intended) to the beat of a different drum, though they work well for me. However, it is always nice to know that the company behind the product is made up of good people.
ILya
Bumping this but for those on the fence... The new March PRS is the real deal. I'm a die hard ZCO zealot and have half a dozen of them. The new March does shit I couldn't believe until getting behind it. The build quality , fov ect are all great. With the 26* eye piece I can shoot on 29-30 power with the march and have the same FOV as a ZCO 527 at 20x. Brandons reticle is one the best I have seen. That's cool but the big enchilada is how this optic handles mirage. NOTHING and I mean nothing I have looked through cuts through mirage like this march. Tangents ZCO, hensdoldt...nothing. What looked like a blob in the ZCO was a well defined steel target where I could see the paint and impacts in rolling mirage ( hot as hell and windy). So good infact, I sold a brand new 840zco to buy the march. I took a look again this last weekend through a buddies at a match and it just reaffirmed the choice. The only downside is they are hand built and have a long lead time. I would pay a lot more to have it in my hands today. I shouldn't post this because now I got to compete with everyone when I order #2 and #3 but these things are something special. You would be doing yourself a huge favor to find someone with one and look through it.
Last edited:
What is the actual p/n or link to the PRS scope. I’m curious but having hard time seeing the actual part number when u search. Website is confusing at best.
I wouldn't order it from EO but this is the one:
www.eurooptic.com
March FX PRS Wide Angle 5-42x56mm G2 FFP FML-WBR Reticle 0.1MIL Non-Illum Riflescope w/Writable Turrets D42HV56WFML-G2-FML-WBR For Sale | SHIPS FREE - EuroOptic
FREE SHIPPING on March FX PRS Wide Angle 5-42x56mm G2 FFP FML-WBR Reticle 0.1MIL Non-Illum Riflescope w/Writable Turrets D42HV56WFML-G2-FML-WBR
At about what distance did the mirage reduction really kick in vs. the other scopes? I shoot max ~500yds or so, certainly under 700.
Thank you for the feedback, on behalf of March and myself we grestly appreciate the comments!!
Shoot me a pm and I’ll be glad to assist with any questions you might have.
So far it's my sharpest optic, rendering, color, resolution, the FX field of view is a must. What I can't figure out is how they do it in such a compact space. There are many great optics on the market but the March FX series has about the best glass IMHO. Waiting on a 40 or 42x to go on sale.
If I may. The nomenclature for the March scopes is like this: The X in -X or -FX means that the thickness of the tube is 4mm, very strong. The -F means that it's First Focal Plane (or Dual Focal plane for the 1-10X24, and the 1.5-15X42.) If there is no F it's SFP, or fixed magnification
The glass to which you are referring is Super-ED glass and DEON calls that optical system, High Master or HM. If there is no HM, the glass is ED glass for all other riflescopes except those with a 24mm objective, which have traditional optical glass.
I know, it's confusing, but it gets worse. The riflescopes that have a Wide-Angle eyepiece are further labeled with a W, WA or Wide Angle.
So, the name of the 4.5-28X52 is actually March-FX 4.5-28X52 HM WA. (First focal plane, 34mm tube, Super-ED glass, Wide Angle Eyepiece.) They could have called it Fred to make it simpler.
The 5-40 to which you made allusion is the March-FX 5-40X56 (First focal plane, 34mm tube, ED glass, normal eyepiece). That could be called Sam. There is now a Gen 2 version of this excellent scope, with improved turrets and fast focus eyepiece.
The 5-42 is the March-FX 5-42X56 HM WA (First focal plane, 34mm tube, Super-ED glass, wide angle eyepiece). Could be called George. The Gen2 of this riflescope has the Shuriken or the Writable (PRS version) turrets and improved optical path for the extreme adjustment settings.
Then we get into the turrets. When they introduced the Shuriken-style turrets, they added X to the name to differentiate from normal, or tactical turrets. Then we now have the Writable turrets, that are an evolution from the Shuriken turrets.
I hope this clears up any confusion, and I will point out that I try to make sure I always refer to a riflescope with its full name.
Ahhh, ok, well I thought the FX was refering to the wide angle eyepiece? So apparently I still have more to learn, typical. But that's the Japanese for you as well and things not exactly translating well to english.
I’m impressed with the March PRS scope. I’m a fan of Japanese engineering.
I often compare rifle shit to guitars, and if you’re after a killer Fender Strat that doesn’t cost as much as a tricked out Bronco for your side chick you want a MIJ/CIJ strat from the 80s or early 90s. Those guitars were built by true craftsmen who cared and thought it was a big deal for a Japanese outfit to be producing a top shelf instrument that would be judged against what was already an American icon.
I even like their cars, slick Japanese engineering has a style (seiko on the wrist, Rolex in the safe utilitarianism) I’ve got a couple of tricked out Toyotas that can be pretty much taken down to parts with an 8mm socket and little else.
The same pride in engineering and production is apparent with the few examples of March stuff I’ve seen.
I often compare rifle shit to guitars, and if you’re after a killer Fender Strat that doesn’t cost as much as a tricked out Bronco for your side chick you want a MIJ/CIJ strat from the 80s or early 90s. Those guitars were built by true craftsmen who cared and thought it was a big deal for a Japanese outfit to be producing a top shelf instrument that would be judged against what was already an American icon.
I even like their cars, slick Japanese engineering has a style (seiko on the wrist, Rolex in the safe utilitarianism) I’ve got a couple of tricked out Toyotas that can be pretty much taken down to parts with an 8mm socket and little else.
The same pride in engineering and production is apparent with the few examples of March stuff I’ve seen.
Last edited:
A Grand Seiko will hold up to any Rolex any day of the week. You even know the new F35's that are produced in Japan are probably gonna get better gas milage and be more reliable...joking.
They just do good stuff across the board. Turned in my Range Rover for a 4Runner years ago and never looked back.
Last edited:
"I’m impressed with the March PRS scope. I’m a fan of Japanese engineering."
I don't believe the Japanese have ever liked the notion that "Made In Germany" meant for quite a lot of folks that something made from there was the best you could make it, and Contax and now March are being produced by folks determined to make their, "not as long as we're here" response sink in.
If you read through the profiles of one of the head March engineers, they mention in an obscure line about his former job working out doing "ray tracing" w/a hand calculator, which is now something done w/computers, that's heavyweight stuff.
When it comes to March and Japanese engineering, they remind me of what Kyocera did w/their Contax line that used Carl Zeiss glass under license from Carl Zeiss.
I have the most amazing example of the camera inside of a camera called the Contax AX where the inside assembly and pressure plate assembly move forward/backward 10mm to assist focus necessary since the AX was to incorporate autofocus while still being used w/manual focus CZ glass instead of the newer autofocus lenses. Incredibly intricate clockwork, exquisite engineering, brilliantly executed by brilliant engineers, that was also tough and robust in terms of holding up under constant use.
My Contax AX has been off warranty since the late 90's, has never malfunctioned even though I use/have used it quite a lot.
27 yrs, purchased in the late 90's.
Some scoffed at this brilliant engineering calling the camera "over-engineered".
Heres the camera back open and the assembly hinged at the back to the pressure plate hanging down at the very bottom, which keeps the film in register against the film rails/pentaprism which is another completely different assembly inside the body and both these assemblies move in unison "back and forth" keeping the film in perfect register to adjust focus which is slow by today's standards but always accurate, and they've moved for me w/o fail, w/o so much as a "hiccup" for 27 yrs.
Fuck a warranty, I've never needed one for this camera which shows no sign of quitting. The camera is its own warranty because it never quits.
Contax had more "magic" up it's sleeve via its vacumn back on the Contax RTS III which sucked the film flat against a ceramic pressure plate for better registration when you fired the shutter.
Yes, this is a camera not a scope, but it is an example of the brilliance of Japanese engineering. This isn't worship, it's saying the Japaneses don't take a back seat to anybody re what they make.
BTW: Having said that, my oldest functioning camera is an American product, the Kodak Vest Pocket which is now 103 years old.
It's never malfunctioned and if I don't smash it, and store it right, my guess is it'll last another 100 yrs. The shutter is like me @76, a little sluggish in the morning, but it smooths out and works like a charm after a little exercise.
I don't believe the Japanese have ever liked the notion that "Made In Germany" meant for quite a lot of folks that something made from there was the best you could make it, and Contax and now March are being produced by folks determined to make their, "not as long as we're here" response sink in.
If you read through the profiles of one of the head March engineers, they mention in an obscure line about his former job working out doing "ray tracing" w/a hand calculator, which is now something done w/computers, that's heavyweight stuff.
When it comes to March and Japanese engineering, they remind me of what Kyocera did w/their Contax line that used Carl Zeiss glass under license from Carl Zeiss.
I have the most amazing example of the camera inside of a camera called the Contax AX where the inside assembly and pressure plate assembly move forward/backward 10mm to assist focus necessary since the AX was to incorporate autofocus while still being used w/manual focus CZ glass instead of the newer autofocus lenses. Incredibly intricate clockwork, exquisite engineering, brilliantly executed by brilliant engineers, that was also tough and robust in terms of holding up under constant use.
My Contax AX has been off warranty since the late 90's, has never malfunctioned even though I use/have used it quite a lot.
27 yrs, purchased in the late 90's.
Some scoffed at this brilliant engineering calling the camera "over-engineered".
Heres the camera back open and the assembly hinged at the back to the pressure plate hanging down at the very bottom, which keeps the film in register against the film rails/pentaprism which is another completely different assembly inside the body and both these assemblies move in unison "back and forth" keeping the film in perfect register to adjust focus which is slow by today's standards but always accurate, and they've moved for me w/o fail, w/o so much as a "hiccup" for 27 yrs.
Fuck a warranty, I've never needed one for this camera which shows no sign of quitting. The camera is its own warranty because it never quits.
Contax had more "magic" up it's sleeve via its vacumn back on the Contax RTS III which sucked the film flat against a ceramic pressure plate for better registration when you fired the shutter.
Yes, this is a camera not a scope, but it is an example of the brilliance of Japanese engineering. This isn't worship, it's saying the Japaneses don't take a back seat to anybody re what they make.
BTW: Having said that, my oldest functioning camera is an American product, the Kodak Vest Pocket which is now 103 years old.
It's never malfunctioned and if I don't smash it, and store it right, my guess is it'll last another 100 yrs. The shutter is like me @76, a little sluggish in the morning, but it smooths out and works like a charm after a little exercise.
Last edited:
Yes, very impressive. I am sure there are a million nuanced examples of this that we can point too. My overall impression is that from a engineering-cultural perspective the Germans are amazing problem solvers and innovators, but Germans get bored and want faster and better, and they think in those terms. Japanese think from an Asian cultural perspective where by longevity and efficency are expected, thus Germans innovate and move forward, never sitting on one thing, Japanese take existing tech and make it better and longer lasting, it's a cultural leaning, they improve upon. It's "inventing" vs. "perfecting" That said I am sure one can find many rebukes to my statement but in visiting Germany many times and working in Japan this theme becomes apparent.
Doing ray tracing with a calculator is incredibly high level mathamatics, that alone is crazy, the guy is obviously special.
I agree, the cultures are different.
When I way younger my Uncle Silas started an aerospace company, "Pagos", and specialized in ray tracing, and had gotten some patents for a particular lens, and being my uncle I had "hit the lotto"/was fortunate to get the opportunity to listen to him/pick his brains about a subject that is absolutely dense/impenetrable when you are first exposed to that kind of detail, and I'm in awe of both my uncle and this gentleman from March.
What you've described globally and colored by different cultural pespectives, would be complimentary skill sets w/the proviso that a great deal of inventing is based on the perfecting of an earlier idea, along w/"happy accidents", like how some spilled chemicals led to "fixing" an image or to how we came up antibiotics.
Case in point would be going from props to jets, having reciprocating engines w/turbines, somebody decides to skip the reciprocating engine from the mix and stick w/the turbine.
Whatever the cultural leanings we're talking about amazing folks coming from both directions.
When I way younger my Uncle Silas started an aerospace company, "Pagos", and specialized in ray tracing, and had gotten some patents for a particular lens, and being my uncle I had "hit the lotto"/was fortunate to get the opportunity to listen to him/pick his brains about a subject that is absolutely dense/impenetrable when you are first exposed to that kind of detail, and I'm in awe of both my uncle and this gentleman from March.
What you've described globally and colored by different cultural pespectives, would be complimentary skill sets w/the proviso that a great deal of inventing is based on the perfecting of an earlier idea, along w/"happy accidents", like how some spilled chemicals led to "fixing" an image or to how we came up antibiotics.
Case in point would be going from props to jets, having reciprocating engines w/turbines, somebody decides to skip the reciprocating engine from the mix and stick w/the turbine.
Whatever the cultural leanings we're talking about amazing folks coming from both directions.
Last edited:
In fact you're bringing up an actual case where they come up w/the Rollei TLR
w/the response being the Minolta Autocord w/a better film transport, and Rokkor lens.
The great thing about March (up to a certain point) is their willingness to upgrade the scope you already have, instead of having to wait until gen 2 shows up.
w/the response being the Minolta Autocord w/a better film transport, and Rokkor lens.
The great thing about March (up to a certain point) is their willingness to upgrade the scope you already have, instead of having to wait until gen 2 shows up.
Last edited:
