6 ARC Upper Build: 18” PVA Osprey (Rifle +2”) + San Tan Tactical Billet Upper + SOLGW M89 Rail

#51
TonyAngel said:
Hey man. I'm really going to need to go back through this thread and get caught up on what has changed, but am getting ready to start my weekly staff meeting.

Still, a good way to check to see if more gas will help would be to throw a good old fashioned baffle stack suppressor on it and see how it runs. A baffle stack suppressor will simulate more dwell time and increase back pressure. Just make sure you use one with an appropriate bore diameter. Not all 5.56 will do 6mm. Real gun guys are pretty helpful and most would be glad to let you take their can for a spin. If youre lucky, as I am, suppressors are pretty common at the range.
Click to expand...
Thanks Tony. No worries, take your time catching up. I love your idea for using the suppressor but unfortunately I live in California so that’s not really an option.

TLDR version is it’s an 18 inch 6 arc barrel with rifle +2 gas system (.093” port) so it has pretty short amount of dwelltime already. I’ve tried shooting with different mags different, different bcg’s, checked gas tube/gasy key for obstructions, tried set screw & clamp on gas blocks, different uppers, different lube, etc. and never resolved failure to feed or failure to lock back and at best (factory ammo with clamp on block) have gotten intermittent ejection.

If any ideas pop into your head once you’ve had time to absorb the thread feel free to share them!

I already have a 2.5 mm bit on hand that I can use to drill out the port to around .098 inches but I’m holding off until I hear back from Josh at PVA to see if he and team may have some other things to check for or ask me to send the barrel in etc..
 
Last edited:
#52
From all I know about these types of chamberings, the RLGS+2 is more something done for 24-26” 6mm AR and 6mm ARC.

For an 18”, I would be tempted to lean on standard RLGS with a Rifle-Speed AGB or Bootleg Carrier to tune it.

I know another guy with an 18” Geissele who says the moment he switches from 108gr ELD-M to 105gr, it doesn’t cycle reliably. Runs fine with 108s, but just that tiny change results in short stroking.

This is because 6mm has very limited bore volume, so any changes made have more consequences.

If it doesn’t run factory 108gr, I’m also of the camp of opening the port, especially with such a long gas system.

Your port pressure and port volume capacity to bleed gas into the BCG are on the downside of the curve, outside of the optimal gas system PSI requirements of the AR-15.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WeR0206
#53
LRRPF52 said:
From all I know about these types of chamberings, the RLGS+2 is more something done for 24-26” 6mm AR and 6mm ARC.

For an 18”, I would be tempted to lean on standard RLGS with a Rifle-Speed AGB or Bootleg Carrier to tune it.

I know another guy with an 18” Geissele who says the moment he switches from 108gr ELD-M to 105gr, it doesn’t cycle reliably. Runs fine with 108s, but just that tiny change results in short stroking.

This is because 6mm has very limited bore volume, so any changes made have more consequences.

If it doesn’t run factory 108gr, I’m also of the camp of opening the port, especially with such a long gas system.

Your port pressure and port volume capacity to bleed gas into the BCG are on the downside of the curve, outside of the optimal gas system PSI requirements of the AR-15.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback, everything you said makes sense.

Do you happen to know of best practices for drilling out a gas port? I can put a cheap cleaning rod in the barrel to protect the bore from the drill bit but since I don’t have a drill press id have to just mount the upper in a vice and do it slowly by hand using the existing hole as a pilot
 
#54
WeR0206 said:
Thanks for the feedback, everything you said makes sense.

Do you happen to know of best practices for drilling out a gas port? I can put a cheap cleaning rod in the barrel to protect the bore from the drill bit but since I don’t have a drill press id have to just mount the upper in a vice and do it slowly by hand using the existing hole as a pilot
Click to expand...

It will only be a $400 mistake if you screw it up. lol
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: spife7980, WeR0206 and LRRPF52
#55
I would defer to @45-90 on that. I seem to remember something he recommended about drilling ports where you limit the amount of material burrs in the bore, but I could be misremembering.

Some use a wooden dowel in the bore and a limiter set on a drill press, so you don’t over-drill.

Lots of cutting fluid to help reduce chatter. There was some kind of technique for keeping the cut clean so you don’t introduce crap into the bore from the edges of the port.

When you install your gas block and tube, they should be super-tight with no place for gas to leak.

I bed or press-fit gas blocks, and bed tubes into the back of the block to fight that leakage problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WeR0206
#56
Rob01 said:
It will only be a $400 mistake if you screw it up. lol
Click to expand...
Haha yep....I'll going to wait and see what the PVA guys say before doing anything. They may very well ask me to just send the barrel in (or complete upper) so they can take a look 1st hand and I'd be happy to oblige as I'm not in any sort of time crunch....just want the gun to cycle b/c the accuracy is lights out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LRRPF52 and Rob01
#57
Don’t be skeered!

iu
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: Dendro, StephenShivers and WeR0206
#61
Rob01 said:
Note to self. Don’t buy AR from Dixie Gunworks lol
Click to expand...
C’mom man! He’s already got a pilot hole and a floating head drill.

The reason for opening up the port is to run Wolf anyway since it’s a 16” MLGS, so no harm, no foul. He could blow through the other side and as long as he doesn’t go all the way through the barrel wall, Cleatus won’t notice.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Rob01
#63
@WeR0206 - Before you drill anything please post a picture showing where the gas tube is sitting in your upper.

We need to make sure you have the correct +2" gas tube for Josh's barrel.

Here's why. You bought the tube from WOA correct? What dimension did @bohem use for the + 2"???? Does it match Craddock or Rainier?
Rainier gas block shoulder to receiver face is 14 - 1/4"
Craddock gas block shoulder to receiver face is 14 - 5/8"

There is more than 1 version of +2" & if that WOA tube is for the shorter + 2" & Josh's port location is for the long you'll have short stroke issues for sure.

In the below pictures your looking at Two 6 ARC barrels. Both are 22" + 2" RL. Notice anything odd.
1755904675192.jpeg


Here are the 2 gas blocks/tubes that go with these 2 +2" barrels.

1755904840400.jpeg
 
#64
357Max said:
@WeR0206 - Before you drill anything please post a picture showing where the gas tube is sitting in your upper.

We need to make sure you have the correct +2" gas tube for Josh's barrel.

Here's why. You bought the tube from WOA correct? What dimension did @bohem use for the + 2"???? Does it match Craddock or Rainier?
Rainier gas block shoulder to receiver face is 14 - 1/4"
Craddock gas block shoulder to receiver face is 14 - 5/8"

There is more than 1 version of +2" & if that WOA tube is for the shorter + 2" & Josh's port location is for the long you'll have short stroke issues for sure.

In the below pictures your looking at Two 6 ARC barrels. Both are 22" + 2" RL. Notice anything odd.
View attachment 8752559

Here are the 2 gas blocks/tubes that go with these 2 +2" barrels.

View attachment 8752560
Click to expand...
Great question. Yes its a WOA +2 tube. From shoulder of the barrel to receiver face im measuring 14 5/8”. Re the gas tube, From the port of the tube to the end is about 17”.

It Seems to have the same protrusion into the upper as my 556 builds with appropriate tube lengths.

Also if this helps to see how everything fits together here is a pic of how far the tube protrudes into the receiver:
IMG_4173.jpeg
 
#65
WeR0206 said:
Great question. Yes its a WOA +2 tube. From shoulder of the barrel to receiver face im measuring 14 5/8”. Re the gas tube, From the port of the tube to the end is about 17”.

It Seems to have the same protrusion into the upper as my 556 builds with appropriate tube lengths.

Also if this helps to see how everything fits together here is a pic of how far the tube protrudes into the receiver:
View attachment 8752571
Click to expand...
That looks right. It's probably Rainier that has an abomination of the 2" length & that barrel shipped with the tube.

FWIW - My 6 ARC has always had a low mass carrier with std silent capture set up. I had to drill the Craddock port about .003" to get it not short stroking even with the low mass carrier.

Also Lever make a considerable amount more port pressure than any other powder I've tried. Still it needs to run with factory ammo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WeR0206
#66
357Max said:
That looks right. It's probably Rainier that has an abomination of the 2" length & that barrel shipped with the tube.

FWIW - My 6 ARC has always had a low mass carrier with std silent capture set up. I had to drill the Craddock port about .003" to get it not short stroking even with the low mass carrier.

Also Lever make a considerable amount more port pressure than any other powder I've tried. Still it needs to run with factory ammo.
Click to expand...
Ok thanks. Out of curiosity what was the initial size of the 22” craddock rifle +2 barrel gas port?
 
#67
WeR0206 said:
Ok thanks. Out of curiosity what was the initial size of the 22” craddock rifle +2 barrel gas port?
Click to expand...
Was .089" & I drilled it to .092" with a #42 drill.

That put me in the middle of the Oden adj gas block for function, running 95 - 109gr with Lever.

JP low mass carrier with JP bolt + 3 pc sprinco gas rings & std silent capture. Also this was not suppressed.

Edit: I've drilled a few, but never by hand. This is done with an Albrecht precision chuck in a mill with a Kurt vise. Using a process similar to what 45-90 describes below. Sharp quality drill bit & I use Tap Magic as the cutting fluid. It leaves no burr. finish with a VFD pellet + Iosso lap.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: flogxal and WeR0206
#68
I can not recommend the hand drill for drilling out the gas port.
Those who made fun of that method are correct.

A drill press and good drill vice will get it done, along with a premium twist drill number set, quality premium dark cutting oil with lard and sulfur content for Pipe threading at Home Depot.

One way a machinist would do it, cause he has the precision tools.
I use a Bridgeport milling machine and precision ground Kurt milling machine vise, with Starrett V blocks.

Starrett level to get the barrel level, and use the upper reciever to get it perpendicular.

Set up for parallel and perpendicular drilling to the rifles bore.
When you are dead center of the barrel, (I use an edge finder, ) check the factory drilled hole to see if it's actually in the center of the barrel and perpendicular.
By running the orginial hole dia drill upside down in a quality collet, it should have no interference going through the original hole, binding in any direction as it is slightly smaller than the drilled hole.

You can set the depth with drill stops on a milling machine as well as most quality drill presses.

I use small collet set up to get the drill to run true, as many cheap drill chucks have a lot of runout.

Some are really bad, and need the next largest drill to cut off the swaged out metal in the bore and rifling.

To smooth it all out like the center pic ya need to lap the area of the gas port.
Go aggressive with silicon carbide lapping compound in that area only for a bit then polish the bore in that area then blend out ..
Less toward the muzzle and never exit the muzzle.
So you end up with a slightly tighter bore toward the muzzle.
This barrel is now capable of 1/2" 5 shot groups, especially if ya do all the other accuracy enhancements.
The 224 Valkyrie was one of the hardest AR calibers to get to shoot good, but I didn't give up on it... now it shoots tiny groups.
Sometimes it's surprising what makes an AR work well...going back and centering the bolt carrier did the trick, along with the taper polished bore, squaring the reciever, glue in, etc....and no muzzle device, no threaded muzzle. It's a heavy AR in 224 cal, no muzzle device needed.

It's your rifle... do with it what ya want, and how ya want.

This is what I do for good results, use any part of it ya want, or discard the whole thing.
Maybe it'll help someone in some way....like...
Should I use my Harbor Freight drill motor and one of their drills to solve the problem?
My answer is probably not...but it's yours, not mine.
 

Attachments

  • 20210809_175341.jpg
    20210809_175341.jpg
    513.3 KB · Views: 11
  • 20210506_151714.jpg
    20210506_151714.jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 11
  • 20210103_031623.jpg
    20210103_031623.jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 11
  • 20241103_162655.jpg
    20241103_162655.jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 10
  • 20210504_123217.jpg
    20210504_123217.jpg
    3.3 MB · Views: 14
  • Like
Reactions: flogxal and WeR0206
#69
Maybe I missed it but are you certain your gas block and the gas port are lined up properly?
The JP on my barrel is slightly off the barrel shoulder to get it lined up.
 

Attachments

  • KIMG20250822_205541588.JPG
    KIMG20250822_205541588.JPG
    1.1 MB · Views: 6
#70
dk17hmr said:
Maybe I missed it but are you certain your gas block and the gas port are lined up properly?
The JP on my barrel is slightly off the barrel shoulder to get it lined up.
Click to expand...
Yeah I verified gas port alignment with a borescope for both the set screw and clamp on gas blocks when I tried them. For both of them it didn’t matter whether I was on the shoulder or not bc the hole in the gas block was big enough for full coverage either way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: flogxal and dk17hmr
#71
The gas block does not always butt up against the shoulder.
SA adjustable gas block instructions state a .025" feeler gauge between the gas block shoulder on the barrel and the gas block itself, when tightening in place....be sure to read manufacturers instructions. Then check with borescope.
 
  • Like
Reactions: flogxal
#72
@WeR0206 without re-scanning the whole thread to see what has been tried, have you thrown in a different carrier? I've troubleshot two factory rifles lately that behaved undergassed, with any ammo and with standard sized gas ports, and both ran 100% with any other carrier but the one they shipped with. Both passed the gas rings gravity test, but clearly they weren't sealing correctly.
 
#73
TonyTheTiger said:
@WeR0206 without re-scanning the whole thread to see what has been tried, have you thrown in a different carrier? I've troubleshot two factory rifles lately that behaved undergassed, with any ammo and with standard sized gas ports, and both ran 100% with any other carrier but the one they shipped with. Both passed the gas rings gravity test, but clearly they weren't sealing correctly.
Click to expand...
Yep, I have tried different uppers, different bcg’s, different mags, gas blocks, etc.
 
#75
Dendro said:
I’m far from a guru like the rest of these guys, however my Proof 18” rifle length + 1 has performed flawlessly
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback. Looks like proof is using .096” gas port on their 18” rifle +1 barrels. Would you consider your barrel to be over gassed, under, or just right?

1756046252994.png


My 18” rifle +2 is using a 0.093” port so that might explain the short stroking. From my research there are a few other barrels (odin and maybe faxon) that are 6 arc 18” +2 systems and their gas ports are all well over .100” (but they might be over gassed for all I know). The proof barrel port sizes seem to offer a good baseline/reference point to compare to though as they are generally not considered over gassed from what I’ve heard. So extrapolating from there, a 18” rifle +2 (less dwell time than a +1 system) would need to have a bigger port size than the +1 (.096”), something closer to .098” or .100” is my guess.

Based on all of my testing so far The amount of gas coming back currently in my +2 system would be perfect if I was running a traditional baffle can, but since I’m in Commiefornia that’s not really an option.
 
Last edited:
#76
I emailed the guys at PVA to see what the next steps should be (send barrel in?) after still getting short stroking on the 108 eld-m factory ammo. We’ll see what they say. Ive been providing updates in this thread but I don’t expect Josh to be able to monitor/get back to me on a snipershide thread…they’ve been pretty good at responding to my emails in the past so hopefully that will remain true.
 
#79
WeR0206 said:
Thanks for the feedback. Looks like proof is using .096” gas port on their 18” rifle +1 barrels. Would you consider your barrel to be over gassed, under, or just right?

View attachment 8753344

My 18” rifle +2 is using a 0.093” port so that might explain the short stroking. From my research there are a few other barrels (odin and maybe faxon) that are 6 arc 18” +2 systems and their gas ports are all well over .100” (but they might be over gassed for all I know). The proof barrel port sizes seem to offer a good baseline to compare to though as they are generally not considered over gassed from what I’ve heard. So extrapolating from there, a 18” rifle +2 (less dwell time than a +1 system) would need to have a bigger port size than the +1 (.096”), something closer to .098” or .100” is my guess.

Based on all of my testing so far The amount of gas coming back currently in my +2 system would be perfect if I was running a traditional baffle can, but since I’m in Commiefornia that’s not really an option.
Click to expand...
It was a pussycat, especially once I got the adjustable gas block dialed in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WeR0206
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

WeR0206
223 Wylde Upper Build: Craddock RTR 223 Wylde 16.25” Mid length + Lantac Billet Upper + SOLGW M89 Rail
Replies
22
Views
1K
WeR0206
WeR0206
Bigjake83
New Build #4 Ridgeline RD15 / Geissele 18" SPR Cut Rifled Barrel. (03JUN25) First Range Session up.
Replies
37
Views
3K
Bigjake83
Bigjake83
pangris
Craddock Precision 6 rifle, 6.5 Grendel test day - Pangris 13.9" Mod 1, 14.5" Mod 2, and 18" RTR
Replies
17
Views
1K
pangris
pangris
A
SOLD Proof 18" 6mm Arc Upper - VLTOR, Geissele, JP parts
Replies
5
Views
809
AleksanderSuave
A
Bonjourjr
Accessories WTS: divorce sale. Geissele rails, ARC Xylo chassis, MDT ESS Chassis, PVA prefits, PWS M116 MOD1 upper
Replies
8
Views
1K
longtines
longtines
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Merch
Alerts