Correct prone position and recoil management

O

Oliver Official

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Sep 18, 2025
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#1
I can shoot sub MOA, and if I'm really trying, sub 1/2 MOA 5-shot groups at 100m with factory match ammo. I exclusively shoot prone and occasionally from the bench. I'm a leftie, with a LH Tiktac in 308 shooting off a bipod. After the shot I have no cheekweld and the rifle is pointing about 10-15 mil left of target. I'm trying to be square but still notice my non-trigger elbow is placed about 3" in front of my trigger elbow. - Time to start working on technique and recoil management.

I've watched the Philip Valeyo and the Science of Recoil YT videos, and read the myriad of help offered on these forums multiple times. Still a few things I'm not sure about. Any help is greatly appreciated.
  1. Modern teaching says to keep the butt centered (about directly under the ear). Other advice says to put the butt in the shoulder pocket, which to me sounds like the outer edge of the chest instead of centered. What am I misunderstanding?
  2. I’ve also read not to place the butt against the collarbone because, with larger calibers, that will hurt. If I center the butt aligned with my ear but avoid contact with the collarbone, the rifle sits very low and painfully presses into my pec. I’m 6'4" with a long neck — this doesn’t work for me.
  3. How much should I arch my back to get a more upright posture and better head position? I feel like my chest is too horizontal and too close to the ground. At cheekweld my face is tilted toward my trigger hand and my eyebrow blocks part of the scope. With glasses I’m looking over the frame.
  4. Finally, I have a persistent fear of the scope striking my eye. After three years I’m still not confident that my prone position prevents this, so I’m never relaxed behind the rifle. Are there drills or techniques to overcome this anxiety?
I fully appreciate these questions might have been asked dozens of times before. Feel free to point me to other posts rather than typing out the answer. I’m more than happy to try to connect the dots myself.
 
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#2
I did a class with Phil earlier in the year and I can say that following his advice significantly improved my shooting. I would rewatch his videos and ignore other things you’ve read for now until you get a solid base down. From there you can experiment with what works best for you.

1&2 - I’d recommend keeping the butt stock centered and on your collarbone. I don’t think 308 is going cause you any issues. I’m shooting 6.5cm and the butt stock sits on my upper pec and onto the collar bone.

3&4 - This mostly sounds like you’re not building the rifle to shoulder connection correctly. Check out Phil’s video on the topic. You should be relaxed behind the rifle and not having to hold unnatural positions to get the sight picture correct.
 
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#3
I watched Phil’s vids years ago and stopped loading the bipod. Instead establish the connection & think in my head “linear to the rear” marked improvement.

A solid rear bag, like Taylor’s that doesn’t squish a lot, stays solid till you apply cheek weld pressure to bring cross hairs up on target in NPOA condition is gold too.
 
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#7
After watching Philip Valeyo’s 2nd video on bridge building more closely, I’ve come to realize I’m also doing the whole rear bag thing wrong. I’m holding and squeezing the bag to lift the butt up and to press it into my chest. My hand is not making any contact with the butt itself. My trigger hand is not applying any pressure on the grip out of fear of yanking trigger.

More points for improvement identified!

Looks like I’m almost going to have to start from scratch again.
 
#8
Oliver Official said:
After watching Philip Valeyo’s 2nd video on bridge building more closely, I’ve come to realize I’m also doing the whole rear bag thing wrong. I’m holding and squeezing the bag to lift the butt up and to press it into my chest. My hand is not making any contact with the butt itself. My trigger hand is not applying any pressure on the grip out of fear of yanking trigger.

More points for improvement identified!

Looks like I’m almost going to have to start from scratch again.
Click to expand...
Not really from scratch. Just keep that rear bag fill settled. Also, make sure it's tall enough. I put a lot of pressure down into the rear bag and slide the gun back & forth a bit before the shot. Cross hairs stray away less after the shot.

I used to make the mistake of having a flimsy bag I squeezed like a cartoon rabbit. Not good.

Settled and tracks straight back. These Taylor bags hold shape like this. Pretty neat.
IMG_7253.jpeg
 
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#10
Yesterday was the first time I went to the range after the above posts. Shooting at a 100m range, I focused on:
  1. Stable and square prone position, having my legs in a symmetrical V and pressing the ankles downwards.
  2. Breathing cycles.
  3. Butt placed close to center, against the collar bone.
  4. Building the bridge by lowering 'into' the rifle, as explained in Philip Valeyo's YT videos.
  5. Jaw weld rather than cheek weld, holding my head straight up.
  6. Trigger hand to hold the rifle into my chest, support hand to lift the butt. Rear bag only to fill the empty space below the support hand, not to support the butt directly.

Couple of things I immediately noticed:
  • Recoil was a lot easier to control. Without the bag I was aiming off by about 0.5 mil after the shot (approx. 2").
  • Scope movement during breathing cycles resulted in a near perfect vertical line without the bag. With the bag, there was hardly any movement during breathing cycles.
  • The butt directly against the collar bone is pretty f.. uncomfortable. Hopefully this is something to get used to. It's not so much the recoil, but holding the butt against the collar bone for longer periods between shots starts to hurt after half an hour.
  • The neck tension while keeping my head straight up instead of resting my cheek bone is noticeable but acceptable.
  • The hardest part so far is figuring out the ideal back extension/chest height. I've tried various positions of elbow placement, from upper arms almost vertical to about 45 degrees. I'm inclined to say higher is more comfortable as the butt has more chest surface to press into whereas in lower positions made it so that the collar bone was the only contact point.
 
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#11
Oliver Official said:
Yesterday was the first time I went to the range after the above posts. Shooting at a 100m range, I focused on:
  1. Stable and square prone position, having my legs in a symmetrical V and pressing the ankles downwards.
  2. Breathing cycles.
  3. Butt placed close to center, against the collar bone.
  4. Building the bridge by lowering 'into' the rifle, as explained in Philip Valeyo's YT videos.
  5. Jaw weld rather than cheek weld, holding my head straight up.
  6. Trigger hand to hold the rifle into my chest, support hand to lift the butt. Rear bag only to fill the empty space below the support hand, not to support the butt directly.

Couple of things I immediately noticed:
  • Recoil was a lot easier to control. Without the bag I was aiming off by about 0.5 mil after the shot (approx. 2").
  • Scope movement during breathing cycles resulted in a near perfect vertical line without the bag. With the bag, there was hardly any movement during breathing cycles.
  • The butt directly against the collar bone is pretty f.. uncomfortable. Hopefully this is something to get used to. It's not so much the recoil, but holding the butt against the collar bone for longer periods between shots starts to hurt after half an hour.
  • The neck tension while keeping my head straight up instead of resting my cheek bone is noticeable but acceptable.
  • The hardest part so far is figuring out the ideal back extension/chest height. I've tried various positions of elbow placement, from upper arms almost vertical to about 45 degrees. I'm inclined to say higher is more comfortable as the butt has more chest surface to press into whereas in lower positions made it so that the collar bone was the only contact point.
Click to expand...
You raise up in your position and the collar bone pain goes away. I shoot high now and adjust everything to the higher position. Possibly that neck tension goes away too. Actually, shooting in a natural/higher/comfortable position just works all around better for me.

If you are able to cant your butt pad so it rides center to the outside a bit, that works too.
 
#12
Yeah, the raised position was definitely more convenient but also made me a bit more wobbly and made it harder to lift/support the butt with my support hand. I definitely need to find a preferred position and stick with it for the most part as it drives bipod leg setting and scope fore/aft placement. My eye box is fairly limited (Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50).
 
#13
Oliver Official said:
The neck tension while keeping my head straight up instead of resting my cheek bone is noticeable but acceptable.
Click to expand...
I have zero idea why people think a "jaw weld" is repeatable and hence use it. My cheek bone doesn't move position on my face and is a solid and repeatable indicator.

The idea should be, IMO, not to raise your cheek off of the comb but if its too low...then raise the frakin' comb via pads or adjustable comb hardware.

My two cents.
 
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