Supertrickler Scale Drift

Roadrace33

Roadrace33

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Nov 23, 2023
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#1
I have 2 Supertricklers. One gen 1, one gen 2. To my knowledge the gen 2 has more anti static parts. I keep my loading room(basement) at 70 degrees and 40% humidity. The past 6-8 months I’ve been shooting competitions a lot more and focusing on weeding out the little stupid shit that causes minor issues. A few small things here and there will eventually add up to something.

I’ve noticed a lot of scale drift. I had some crazy SD with my dasher at last outing and I finally said enough. My charge weight is 31 grains of varget. I pulled the remaining 20 rounds and weighed them all. They span from 30.84-31.14. That would explain an SD OF 17 on a dasher, arguable one of the easiest calibers to load for.

The scales are literally drifting that much, while in use. Sometimes when I set the cup back on the platen, it will read anywhere from - .1 clear to .1

So next what I did was I finally grounded my scales directly to my breaker panel and isolated the trickler son a different table, different outlet altogether. Different circuit too, not the same breaker. This helped some.

So I loaded 20 rounds. I loaded 10 with each trickler. My results with the gen 1 trickler set at 31GR - 5 charges were within my .02 plus or minus tolerance. The other 5 were .06-.08 high.

With the gen 2, 8/10 were within the tolerance. 2 were overcharged by .02. So they were 31.04. Which, I’m still ok with. But no more than that…

I ran an autotrickler v4 a few years ago. I sold it as soon as I got the supertrickler because imediatilly I liked it a lot… and I still do, but the more I use it the more I pick apart its flaws. I assume that since it is a massive piece of plastic, it just cause drift. That’s just the way it is? Now the gen2 is obviously better, and I could just buy another gen2 but it just has me wondering about the v4 AT again. I have a buddy who is a really good top level prs shooter who I spoke with about it and he claims zero issues with his autotrickler v4s and I believe him.

I’m kinda at the point of buying an autotrickler again, and doing this same comparison. I don’t recall ever having a drift issue with my old one. I know it would drift some, but it was .02 of drift over long periods of time. The supertrickler is drifting while throwing, and cause charges to be off.

Here is two pictures of my tricklers right after throwing a charge, and then coming back about 30 minutes later.
 

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#2
Roadrace33 said:
I have 2 Supertricklers. One gen 1, one gen 2. To my knowledge the gen 2 has more anti static parts. I keep my loading room(basement) at 70 degrees and 40% humidity. The past 6-8 months I’ve been shooting competitions a lot more and focusing on weeding out the little stupid shit that causes minor issues. A few small things here and there will eventually add up to something.

I’ve noticed a lot of scale drift. I had some crazy SD with my dasher at last outing and I finally said enough. My charge weight is 31 grains of varget. I pulled the remaining 20 rounds and weighed them all. They span from 30.84-31.14. That would explain an SD OF 17 on a dasher, arguable one of the easiest calibers to load for.

The scales are literally drifting that much, while in use. Sometimes when I set the cup back on the platen, it will read anywhere from - .1 clear to .1

So next what I did was I finally grounded my scales directly to my breaker panel and isolated the trickler son a different table, different outlet altogether. Different circuit too, not the same breaker. This helped some.

So I loaded 20 rounds. I loaded 10 with each trickler. My results with the gen 1 trickler set at 31GR - 5 charges were within my .02 plus or minus tolerance. The other 5 were .06-.08 high.

With the gen 2, 8/10 were within the tolerance. 2 were overcharged by .02. So they were 31.04. Which, I’m still ok with. But no more than that…

I ran an autotrickler v4 a few years ago. I sold it as soon as I got the supertrickler because imediatilly I liked it a lot… and I still do, but the more I use it the more I pick apart its flaws. I assume that since it is a massive piece of plastic, it just cause drift. That’s just the way it is? Now the gen2 is obviously better, and I could just buy another gen2 but it just has me wondering about the v4 AT again. I have a buddy who is a really good top level prs shooter who I spoke with about it and he claims zero issues with his autotrickler v4s and I believe him.

I’m kinda at the point of buying an autotrickler again, and doing this same comparison. I don’t recall ever having a drift issue with my old one. I know it would drift some, but it was .02 of drift over long periods of time. The supertrickler is drifting while throwing, and cause charges to be off.

Here is two pictures of my tricklers right after throwing a charge, and then coming back about 30 minutes later.
Click to expand...
With that kind of drift, you might as well be using a ChargeMaster. :rolleyes: ;)

BTW: I assume that before you use your Supertrickler's you have them turned on well before use (like maybe an hour beforehand)?

These kinds of issues are deal breakers for me at that price point. :eek:
 
#3
straightshooter1 said:
With that kind of drift, you might as well be using a ChargeMaster. :rolleyes: ;)

BTW: I assume that before you use your Supertrickler's you have them turned on well before use (like maybe an hour beforehand)?

These kinds of issues are deal breakers for me at that price point. :eek:
Click to expand...
That is exactly what i was thinking, but just didn't say it....

Oh ya, tried it every which way. Off, then let it warmup for up to 2 hours, tried it the same after putting them to "sleep" then turn back on, and lately what I've been doing is just leaving them on 24/7. None of these three ways changed much of anything though.

The thing works good though, like i do enjoy using it otherwise. Its smart, its quick, its easy to use for me, but it fucking DRIFTS BAD!

Im going to go play with an AT V4, and if i like it im just gonna buy two of them and use them strictly for my match loads... I use Varget 75% of the time, h4350 the other 25%.

If i go that route, ill probably keep these, use em for other shit that im not so worried about. It was almost sickening to see the results after re-weighing them.
 
#4
Roadrace33 said:
That is exactly what i was thinking, but just didn't say it....

Oh ya, tried it every which way. Off, then let it warmup for up to 2 hours, tried it the same after putting them to "sleep" then turn back on, and lately what I've been doing is just leaving them on 24/7. None of these three ways changed much of anything though.

The thing works good though, like i do enjoy using it otherwise. Its smart, its quick, its easy to use for me, but it fucking DRIFTS BAD!

Im going to go play with an AT V4, and if i like it im just gonna buy two of them and use them strictly for my match loads... I use Varget 75% of the time, h4350 the other 25%.

If i go that route, ill probably keep these, use em for other shit that im not so worried about. It was almost sickening to see the results after re-weighing them.
Click to expand...
I've been using an FX-120i now for a few years (manually throwing a charge and then manually trickling up) and haven't really had any drifting issue. It will definitely drift after a cold start and start weighing right away. Leaving it on for an hour or so, it settles down where I then don't see any drifting, though I still check it periodically during a charging session just to be sure.

Because these scales are so good about having little or no drift, I'm kinda baffled as to what would cause the issue you're having. It suggests to me it might have something to do with the weight of the SuperTrickler sitting on the scale's plastic housing somehow effecting the sensitive internals of the scale??? I would test one of those scales without the trickler on it, maybe using the same platter to set the cup on, and see if there's any difference in drifting going on then. 🤷‍♂️
 
#5
what are your scales plugged into? I had drift issues. I contacted AnD and they had me isolate the scales from any other electronics. So they got their own power strip and outlet. They also told me to ground the unit, it has a ground on the back of it. I have not had any drift issues since. Just to test this I plugged my laptop in the power strip and had it open and running, and the scale drifted again. Might be worth a try if you have not done this already.
 
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#6
I'm not an expert on the electronic interface between the tricklers and the scale, but it seems that the drift would be a scale issue - not a trickler issue. I have both a Gen2 Supertrickler and a AT V4 and don't have notable drift issues with either.
 
#8
Up until now, i calibrated them probably every month roughly.

Last night I opened up the breaker panel, and i have one outlet box next to it that is totally unused, on its own 15Amp braker. I ran a 25' extension cord 12G or 14G, cant remember, to that outlet, then to my scales. Then i also grounded both scales to a "Y" i made, then ran the ground wire direct to my panel.. The only electronic near it was my Amp and Ampmate, which i moved yesterday aswell.

Good idea, i will load up a charge weight without the trickler on top, and walk away for an hour, see what happens....
 
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#9
Well here is what I’ve found out, potentially solved. I did remove the trickler from the top, and instantly still got the same amount of drift. So, I took one of them to my upstairs bathroom. Totally sealed off, but it was maybe 80 degrees in there with the door closed, no air movement at all. Trickler ontop of scale, absolutely zero drift in one hour.

So I took it back downstairs and plugged it into a different outlet yet again, one that powers my tumbler and Henderson trimmer, about 15’ away from my original location and it is working nearly perfect. Overnight I saw .04 of drift which is totally cool by me because .04 would easily be accounted for every time it re zeros before a throw of powder, and since it is such a small drift it likely would never amount to anything.

The only thing I noticed about its original spot was that there is a very small vent overhead, maybe 10’ away from the scale. Obviously I have the vent closed off, but a little bit of air can escape when the AC runs. So I tore it apart and cutout a piece of cardboard to essentially totally block it off. That, and there is a lot of those plastic stackable bins near the scales, that I use for my fired and prepared brass in different lots. These may induce static? Idk.

TL-DR - If your shit isn’t working, try multiple different outlets, locations, make sure they are not near anything else ( I went out and bought a complete different bench for this just to keep it away from all my other stuff) and absolutely make sure there isn’t even the smallest of drafts. I think a culmination of those few things were working together and causing the drift. The drift also did seem to get worse, the drier I kept it down there. Around 50-60% it wasn’t that bad, but when I dropped it down to 35% it noticeable got worse. Which is a whole different topic, what humidity is your room set to?

I’m still going to try the AT V4. Ordered one this AM. I wanted one to leave setup for my big bore stuff, so we will see how it works in comparison.
 
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#10
Supertrickler sells a heavier scale plate than the one that comes standard with the Supertrickler. The scale plate that comes with the ST is lighter than the standard one that comes with scales. Since the ST version is lighter is was thought that may be causing some of the drift issues and they started selling the heavier one and it has helped many folks. I was going to order the heavier plate but decided to try to make the standard one that comes with the ST heavier. I glued some washers to the underside making sure they did not come in contact with anything. It definitely cut back on the drifting I was seeing. It is next to none now and with the fact that the ST re-zeros the scale as it starts a new drop each time takes care of the rest.
IMG_6513.jpeg
 
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#11
Personal anecdote:

My A&D scales had this crazy drift problem.

The outlet they were plugged into also sourced the overhead lights.

Drift went away with the lights off.

I pesently use a battery - powered light source when trickling powder.
 
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#12
wcberry said:
Supertrickler sells a heavier scale plate than the one that comes standard with the Supertrickler. The scale plate that comes with the ST is lighter than the standard one that comes with scales. Since the ST version is lighter is was thought that may be causing some of the drift issues and they started selling the heavier one and it has helped many folks. I was going to order the heavier plate but decided to try to make the standard one that comes with the ST heavier. I glued some washers to the underside making sure they did not come in contact with anything. It definitely cut back on the drifting I was seeing. It is next to none now and with the fact that the ST re-zeros the scale as it starts a new drop each time takes care of the rest.View attachment 8775162
Click to expand...
I saw they began selling these and I may grab one. If I remember they were pretty proud of them $$
 
#14
Roadrace33 said:
Well here is what I’ve found out, potentially solved. I did remove the trickler from the top, and instantly still got the same amount of drift. So, I took one of them to my upstairs bathroom. Totally sealed off, but it was maybe 80 degrees in there with the door closed, no air movement at all. Trickler ontop of scale, absolutely zero drift in one hour.

So I took it back downstairs and plugged it into a different outlet yet again, one that powers my tumbler and Henderson trimmer, about 15’ away from my original location and it is working nearly perfect. Overnight I saw .04 of drift which is totally cool by me because .04 would easily be accounted for every time it re zeros before a throw of powder, and since it is such a small drift it likely would never amount to anything.

The only thing I noticed about its original spot was that there is a very small vent overhead, maybe 10’ away from the scale. Obviously I have the vent closed off, but a little bit of air can escape when the AC runs. So I tore it apart and cutout a piece of cardboard to essentially totally block it off. That, and there is a lot of those plastic stackable bins near the scales, that I use for my fired and prepared brass in different lots. These may induce static? Idk.

TL-DR - If your shit isn’t working, try multiple different outlets, locations, make sure they are not near anything else ( I went out and bought a complete different bench for this just to keep it away from all my other stuff) and absolutely make sure there isn’t even the smallest of drafts. I think a culmination of those few things were working together and causing the drift. The drift also did seem to get worse, the drier I kept it down there. Around 50-60% it wasn’t that bad, but when I dropped it down to 35% it noticeable got worse. Which is a whole different topic, what humidity is your room set to?

I’m still going to try the AT V4. Ordered one this AM. I wanted one to leave setup for my big bore stuff, so we will see how it works in comparison.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it doesn't take much air movement to have an effect. Like I keep the clear breeze guards on my 120i, except for the front one to allow putting the pan onto the platter, and when I just move quickly to put the pan in, air is moved enough by my hand where I can see it on the readout. When I'm charging my cases, I turn my thermostat to off so the AC or the furnace won't run during that time. lol. . . the house gets a little too warm here in the summer as in the AZ heat it doesn't take long. As far as humidity, it runs from ~34 to 44% where I'm charging my cases and I don't have any drifting problem.

Thanks for reporting back on you various testing to figure it out. That's the kind of thing I would have done too if mine was drifting like that.

BTW, I like that idea of the weight of the plate making a difference too, as mentioned above. Makes sense to me.
 
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#15
@Roadrace33
I’m having trouble understanding the issue, specifically how it made it all the way into a loaded case without you being able to tell. It might be a difference in how the ST operates. Currently I’m dropping manually and using an IP Tricker to top it off (while I wait eternally for the complete IP system to be released), on a FX-120i scale. My Area 419 cup weighs 727.18gr, so when I zero the scale with the cup on, then remove it the scale reads -727.18gr. So when I throw a charge and trickle it, then remove it to pour, the scale will read -727.18gr. If it doesn’t, I KNOW it drifted and I would then re-throw the charge instead of pouring it into a case. Is that not something you would see using the ST system? (In other words, I’m trying to figure out if I’m overlooking something and not catching drift because I’m not considering all the ways it could hide itself. Wouldn’t you notice the drift when you removed the cup to pour and the scale didn’t show the exact weight of the cup as a negative number?)
 
Last edited:
#16
vh20 said:
@Roadrace33
I’m having trouble understanding the issue, specifically how it made it all the way into a loaded case without you being able to tell. It might be a difference in how the ST operates. Currently I’m dropping manually and using an IP Tricker to top it off (while I wait eternally for the complete IP system to be released), on a FX-120i scale. My Area 419 cup weighs 727.18gr, so when I zero the scale with the cup on, then remove it the scale reads -727.18gr. So when I throw a charge and trickle it, then remove it to pour, the scale will read -727.18gr. If it doesn’t, I KNOW it drifted and I would then re-throw the charge instead of pouring it into a case. Is that not something you would see using the ST system? (In other words, I’m trying to figure out if I’m overlooking something and not catching drift because I’m not considering all the ways it could hide itself. Wouldn’t you notice the drift when you removed the cup to pour and the scale didn’t show the exact weight of the cup as a negative number?)
Click to expand...
I use my glass powder cup just like you do for your Area 419 cup. I've had drift not show when the cup was of the plate, as in your example, and when I put the empty cup onto the plate to see if I get a zero, I can get a drift reading. I don't get a drift very often, but I still will check my empty cup weight from time to time just to be sure I'm not getting a drift. I also often check the calibration with a 100g weight to see if I need to recalibrate the scale (usually before starting a charging session).
 
#17
vh20 said:
@Roadrace33
I’m having trouble understanding the issue, specifically how it made it all the way into a loaded case without you being able to tell. It might be a difference in how the ST operates. Currently I’m dropping manually and using an IP Tricker to top it off (while I wait eternally for the complete IP system to be released), on a FX-120i scale. My Area 419 cup weighs 727.18gr, so when I zero the scale with the cup on, then remove it the scale reads -727.18gr. So when I throw a charge and trickle it, then remove it to pour, the scale will read -727.18gr. If it doesn’t, I KNOW it drifted and I would then re-throw the charge instead of pouring it into a case. Is that not something you would see using the ST system? (In other words, I’m trying to figure out if I’m overlooking something and not catching drift because I’m not considering all the ways it could hide itself. Wouldn’t you notice the drift when you removed the cup to pour and the scale didn’t show the exact weight of the cup as a negative number?)
Click to expand...
Yes so the scale was drifting while in flight. So the scale zeroes right before every throw, and while throwing it would totally randomly fluctuate up or down, sometimes as much as .1 GR. So while in flight dispensing, let’s say, it is slowly raising or lowering some. So when it gone done dispensing at the 31 grains I wanted, it turns green cause it’s finished, but it was actually 30.9 or 31.1.

The rounds I had loaded for dasher were shot in a match today and it had an SDs of 8-14. And to be honest it was the best I’ve ever shot at a match lol…
 
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#18
Roadrace33 said:
. So when it gone done dispensing at the 31 grains I wanted, it turns green cause it’s finished, but it was actually 30.9 or 31.1.
Click to expand...
Thanks for helping me understand.

So when the light turned green and everything stabilized, the scale display would actually read 31.0 even though it wasn’t, yet when you removed the cup the scale would go back to the exact negative weight of your cup?
 
#19
A reminder.

The FX series of balences work on magnetic force restoration. One of the internal components is a reasonably strong magnet. You should avoid any magnetic materials above and below the balance.

So, if you do want to use washers to weigh down the platten, just make sure they do not stick to a magnet. And don't place the balance on a steel work surface.
 
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#20
John Glidewell said:
what are your scales plugged into? I had drift issues. I contacted AnD and they had me isolate the scales from any other electronics. So they got their own power strip and outlet. They also told me to ground the unit, it has a ground on the back of it. I have not had any drift issues since. Just to test this I plugged my laptop in the power strip and had it open and running, and the scale drifted again. Might be worth a try if you have not done this already.
Click to expand...
If your house is old enough, its wiring may have current fluctuations from things which cycle regularly, like your refrigerator, your furnace, your A/C units, your hot water heater. I had this issue in my home wiring and had to use a line/current stabilizer. It fixed the problem right up. But I wouldn't just throw one at the problem, I'd talk to an electrician familiar with these current consistency issues.
 
#21
Well here is another update. I said F it, bought 2 v4s.
Set both v4s up with varget. I set the supertricklers up with h4350 for my x47s and creedmoors.

So with everything else the same, I am leaning towards my preference being the V4. I think the supertrickler is the better machine for multiple different powders. But I do notice I still get some bit of drift with the supertrickler setup. I also noticed that the supertrickler setup seems more prone to being affected by a tiny draft, or simply moving too quickly near it. The shrouds around the V4 must be a better option because simply moving in front of the supertrickler setup, it’ll sway the weight on the scale more than on the autotrickler setup. I’m thinking that the heavy platen would fix the issues I see with the supertrickler.

I also like how it just seems easier to get the cup in and out of the autotrickler where on the supertrickler it seems like every once in a while I get spilled powder either from setting the cup down a little too hard and sliding it into position, or from accidentally touching the bulk tube.

Does all this matter, probably not. Maybe it’ll help someone someday.
 

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