Low light hunting scope FFP?

Emerson0311

Emerson0311

Old Salt
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Minuteman
Feb 17, 2018
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Dawson Creek BC
#1
The first and last 10 minutes of legal light, especially with overcast sky are my challenge. FFP because I need that for daylight. Some type of illumination, I prefer a dot or small cross. The reticle can be pretty simple. The critical part is me being able to almost see in the dark. No night hunting here so the real good stuff doesn’t count. Budget, well if $3K+ kicks ass, that’s where I need to go.
 
#3
On the "budget" end compared to your $3k cap, id look at the S&B Klassik 3-12x42, or 2.5-10x56

I like the form factor of the 3-12x42, but the 2.5-10x56 is the no kidding winner for your low light scenario.

They were selling for $1300 from EuroOptics, but i think they are North of $1500 now.

IIRC the P3L is in improved Mildot with an illuminated center cross.
 
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#13
What are you hunting, and at what distance?

Here’s our own @koshkin ’s thoughts, broken down by price:


Under $2k for low light, he suggests the FFP S&B 2.5-10x56 Zenith LM FD7 which is $1800 now.

For $2k to $3k and low light he didn’t break that subcategory out. There are some S&B Polar scopes that are on sale under $3k that probably were not on sale when koshkin compiled his list. The Polar is their upper tier low light specific scope.

There are first and second focal plane versions in the Polar. S&B has a confusing jumble of model designations, and it doesn’t help that Eurooptic’s S&B specs are often wrong.

If you can’t trust the EO specs, then how can you tell if a S&B scope is FFP or SFP?
  • Some scopes: If there’s a “1.BE” in the model name, that a FFP. “2.BE” = SFP.
  • S&B reticles are either FFP or SFP.
    • Ex: FD7 = FFP; D7 = SFP; P4 variants = FFP, etc
S&B also sometimes has a mess regarding what they name a fucking turret.

Primer:
Note: the BDC II-B LT (ELEVATION) listed on the immediate link above and on EO is the same as the German way of writing ASV II-B LT listed on S&B’s shop. They both have the same 755-911-972-P6-G7 model number for the scope.

See here for more explanation: https://www.optics-trade.eu/blog/schmidt-bender-acronyms/

Not going into this one. I’m sick of explaining this already as I keep finding new issues!

Anyway, this has turned into way too long a post.

$2999 FFP Polar 4-16. NOTE: EO has the wrong scope and wrong turret in the pic . They have the 3-12 non-parallax version shown. This particular 4-16 scope actually does have a parallax knob!!

They also apparently also have the wrong turrets listed in the written description (again, as well as shown in pic). I think the turret is the older BDC HS and is lockable but without the little user-adjustable elevation pins like on the scope below. But I could be wrong!


$3950 FFP Polar 4-16 I think has adjustable parallax, ccw turrets, the fanciest hunting turrets they offer, AND with the correct pic.

Unrelated to this immediate discussion, but S&B also offers at least two different tubes, one with the euro flat mount and a round one.

Jesus my brain is fucking fried lol
 
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#14
Anyway, I forgot to link to all of the S&B Polar scopes EO sells.


I haven’t fully decoded the S&B model number scheme, but the last two sets of letters/numbers apparently refers to the elevation and windage turrets with cw and ccw being one number off.
Here’s a 2022 S&B model number list pdf that may help in decoding.

If EO just had accurate listings, this wouldn’t be a big problem.
 

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#15
This is the best hunting scope I have owned for the first and last shooting light. The dual SFP, FFP reticle and illuminated center dot works very well for me in low light. Turn down the power to let light in at those last few minutes and you still have a very usable reticle with the dual reticle design...or the lit center dot.

marchscopes.com

D15V42FDIMLX (Dual, MIL, Tactical, Illumi, Shuriken lock) | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site
marchscopes.com marchscopes.com
 
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#18
davsco said:
The problem with just the center being illuminated is if you're holding over and thus can't see (as well) the other hash marks. Not a problem if just dialing.
Click to expand...
I find whole reticle illumination blinds out small contrasts in the target area. Maybe just too bright in the options I’ve looked through. I can dial by feel with a good turret and zero stop. I am looking for a bit of a unicorn I know.
 
#19
ggmanning said:
This is the best hunting scope I have owned for the first and last shooting light. The dual SFP, FFP reticle and illuminated center dot works very well for me in low light. Turn down the power to let light in at those last few minutes and you still have a very usable reticle with the dual reticle design...or the lit center dot.

marchscopes.com

D15V42FDIMLX (Dual, MIL, Tactical, Illumi, Shuriken lock) | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site
marchscopes.com marchscopes.com
Click to expand...
I owned a DFP 1-10 for years and honestly didn't realize how versatile it was because the AR it was on didn't get used much. Then I mounted it on a semi auto pcp airgun shooting thousands of pellets within a few weeks in many different ways and my eyes were opened just by using it a lot.

Then decided I had to have the DFP 1.5-15, which is a better scope in some ways, and within another week of shooting in the same scenarios as before I'm completely sold on it's merits in versatility. Man if March reduced the optical compromises, which is my only complaint, this could be the end all be all MPVO but as is I love using it.

People forget the old way we used to use scopes sighting in 1.5" high so the bullet strikes slightly low at 300Y and just high of top of back at 400Y nets a dead elk. That's a way someone can use the illuminated CD for hunting situations if by chance the reticle hashes are not so visible before dawn or after dusk and the magnification is low. Or dial the solution.

Then if one has to make a closer range shot on lower magnification that daylight bright CD draws the eye like a red dot sight does. It's fast!
 
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#20
steve123 said:
I owned a DFP 1-10 for years and honestly didn't realize how versatile it was because the AR it was on didn't get used much. Then I mounted it on a semi auto pcp airgun and shot thousands of pellets within a few weeks in many different ways and my eyes were opened just by using it a lot.

Then decided I had to have the DFP 1.5-15, which is a better scope in some ways, and within another week of shooting in the same scenarios as before and I'm completely sold on it's merits in versatility. Man if March reduced the optical compromises, which is my only complaint, this could be the end all be all MPVO but as is I love using it.

People forget the old way we used to use scopes sighting in 1.5" high so the bullet strikes slightly low at 300Y and just high of top of back at 400Y nets a dead elk. That's a way someone can use the illuminated CD for hunting situations if by chance the reticle hashes are not so visible before dawn or after dusk and the magnification is low. Or dial the solution.

Then if one has to make a closer range shot on lower magnification that daylight bright CD draws the eye like a red dot sight does. It's fast!
Click to expand...


Did you find the 1 power on the 1-10 to be true 1x? As in you could use it both eyes open just like a red dot with no big ring from the scope body obstructing anything.

With such a large zoom range, true 1 power usually ends up being compromised, thinking of building a new rig now that I sold my current and I like the March 1-10 as an option, but I want true 1x on the low end, even if it means stepping down in max power.
 
#21
Emerson0311 said:
I find whole reticle illumination blinds out small contrasts in the target area. Maybe just too bright in the options I’ve looked through. I can dial by feel with a good turret and zero stop. I am looking for a bit of a unicorn I know.
Click to expand...
That’s one of the things that Steiner did right with the T6Xi. It has very subtle center-only illumination (MSR2) and 56mm objective.
 
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#22
Minox 3-15 zp5 was really good at one time. This pic was at 5:40 P.M. after a bang flop on a nice 8 point
minox.jpg
 
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#23
My go-to for conventional hunters is Swaro, all the way back to the old AH 3-9 and all the way up to the new Z5 and Z6 - they are super easy to get behind and have amazing glass.
Beyond that, the march 1.5-15 is great too, I run that on my go-to 300WM just because I want 1.5 for thermal, and at that it works beautifully.
ZCO and TT both get a nod, I run both, I love both; but they aren't superior on a hunter to the Z6i's... and they are bulkier for some other options, if balancing an optic on a not-heavy-barrel behemoth of a rifle.
 
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#24
calling4life said:
Did you find the 1 power on the 1-10 to be true 1x? As in you could use it both eyes open just like a red dot with no big ring from the scope body obstructing anything.

With such a large zoom range, true 1 power usually ends up being compromised, thinking of building a new rig now that I sold my current and I like the March 1-10 as an option, but I want true 1x on the low end, even if it means stepping down in max power.
Click to expand...
I suppose I could describe it as normal as far as the ring on 1x or I got used to how it looks. In other words I don't know how one would not see a ring using a rifle scope.

Because the eyebox is generous on 1x, and I have the cheek piece on my guns set for my face, I'm lined up and RTG as soon as I pull the gun up.

Yes I can use it both eyes open, and it seems to be almost less than 1x, not more than 1x, so for example if I'm shooting at larger steel offhand I would rather not use 1x thus I end up slightly higher magnification or whatever fits what I'm trying to accomplish. I mainly wanted 1x for self defense but also for 2 or 3 gun matches which I haven't done in 3 years.

It's the same for me on my plate racks which are at 12Y and 4". I prefer 1.5x when going fast on these. The only way I could go faster is to train more, that's either with a RD, or below 2x using my scopes, because I'm going as fast as my current ability level will permit which is 2.5-ish seconds from high ready. This is mostly timing during the "drive by" because it takes a 1/2 second just to get to the first plate.

I haven't been behind most of the rest of the 1-?x LPVO's so I can't really say what those are like on 1x compared to my March.
 
#27
steve123 said:
I suppose I could describe it as normal as far as the ring on 1x or I got used to how it looks. In other words I don't know how one would not see a ring using a rifle scope.

Because the eyebox is generous on 1x, and I have the cheek piece on my guns set for my face, I'm lined up and RTG as soon as I pull the gun up.

Yes I can use it both eyes open, and it seems to be almost less than 1x, not more than 1x, so for example if I'm shooting at larger steel offhand I would rather not use 1x thus I end up slightly higher magnification or whatever fits what I'm trying to accomplish. I mainly wanted 1x for self defense but also for 2 or 3 gun matches which I haven't done in 3 years.

It's the same for me on my plate racks which are at 12Y and 4". I prefer 1.5x when going fast on these. The only way I could go faster is to train more, that's either with a RD, or below 2x using my scopes, because I'm going as fast as my current ability level will permit which is 2.5-ish seconds from high ready. This is mostly timing during the "drive by" because it takes a 1/2 second just to get to the first plate.

I haven't been behind most of the rest of the 1-?x LPVO's so I can't really say what those are like on 1x compared to my March.
Click to expand...


I appreciate the reply.
 
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#28
Langford said:
I know this isn’t the classifieds section, but I’ve got a S&B Polar 4-16x56, ffp p4fl reticle in a Spuhr mount that I’d like to move to put a thermal in its place for coyote hunting. Excellent scope, and I’ve got a few other “top tier” hunting scopes to compare it against.
Click to expand...

That's a good way to get yourself banned
 
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