Rifle Scopes School me on Magnification between brands. March PRS

Shootin25

Loaner
Full Member
Minuteman
Supporter
Feb 21, 2018
552
1,351
48
SoCal
Is magnification between brands always equal? As in 15x is 15x regardless of brand or magnification range?

I think so, but maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me…

Had two top tier scopes side by side for several hours today, and at equal mag the image in one is smaller than in the other, meaning the actual target appears much smaller… obviously they both milled equal target sizes.

Help me understand…
 
Magnification probably pretty equal, what changes tremendously is the contrast and resolution of the scope at those mag levels. My example is I was shooting NightForce ATCAR 7-35s and picked up a ZCO 5-27 and all of a sudden I could see the targets much clearer.
 
To follow up how much of a difference it makes is likely very subjective. I am a 67 old shooter with glasses. Some one with you eyes may not see things the same. I know I am talked alpha or near alpha glass here but I would bet the same exists with lower priced glass as well. It REALLY helps to try it out for yourself. Either find a great shop like CST or hit a busy range and snoop and ask to try the scopes ( most people will let you).
 
If you want to see this very clearly, pick up any old Leupold Vari-X-II or Vari-X-III scope. Most of them are actually less magnification on the top end vs what their model number suggests. Their annual catalog used to have a chart in the back that gave actual magnification specifications.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sgtsmmiii
Interesting. Which one looked closer/clearer to you?

I wouldn’t say it’s clearer, but the target looks larger/closer thru the ZCO at equal magnifications. Obvious enough that I asked someone else to look thru them and they agreed. Second thought was maybe I’m perceiving it smaller due to the wide angle of the March, but there is really not a K540i FOV difference between these two.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: oldrifleman
If the field of view is different it could cause a difference in perceived target size, larger FOV smaller target, smaller FOV larger target. Is it possible this is what you are seeing?

That’s what I had initially thought… but I believe it is not the case.
Will be spending tomorrow morning with them side by side.

Edit to add that there is not a big difference in FOV between the 2.
 
That’s what I had initially thought… but I believe it is not the case.
Will be spending tomorrow morning with them side by side.

Edit to add that there is not a big difference in FOV between the 2.
I'll just point out that the ZCO has a published AOV of 23° at max and the March-FX PRS has an AOV of 26° at max. That's a difference of 13% linear or closer to 28% since we view and shoot in two dimensions. You're seeing quite a bit more with the March than with the ZCO and that has a tendency of fooling the brain that the image of the target in that wider field of view is smaller, when it's in fact the same magnification.
 
Example is 3-9x40,

3-9x is the magnification range. At its lowest setting, the scope makes the target appear 3 times closer than it does with your naked eye. At its highest, 9 times closer.

And 40x is the diameter of the objective (front) lens in millimeters. A larger lens generally allows more light to enter, contributing to a brighter image, especially at dawn.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Tictacticaltimmy
Alright peeps…
Let me say… My Bad !!
Spent 1000 rounds of practice behind the March.. the FOV makes a difference..
I shoot rimfire only, and had these two optics side by side all morning from 40 to 400 yards.

I don’t think I noticed this image size phenomenon with the K540 because maybe the reticle in that is too fine, whereas the WBR is usable even down low allowing more usable FOV.

One other thing I noticed is the turrets are fkn money…. No monkey fisting.. Just 2 fingers and it snaps itself right on the money..

Thanks all for letting me know i’m not crazy. Have several matches over the next few weeks and really looking forward to using the March.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Denys
Example is 3-9x40,

3-9x is the magnification range. At its lowest setting, the scope makes the target appear 3 times closer than it does with your naked eye. At its highest, 9 times closer.

And 40x is the diameter of the objective (front) lens in millimeters. A larger lens generally allows more light to enter, contributing to a brighter image, especially at dawn.
You and @koshkin really need to collaborate….
 
Magnification probably pretty equal, what changes tremendously is the contrast and resolution of the scope at those mag levels. My example is I was shooting NightForce ATCAR 7-35s and picked up a ZCO 5-27 and all of a sudden I could see the targets much clearer.
Agree on this…..ZCO is like cheating. As snobby as this is gonna sound….its true. I bought a ZCO 4-20 and almost instantly I couldn’t stand shooting my other rifle with the 4-16 ATACR. Now I have 2 ZCO 4-20. LOL
 
Agree on this…..ZCO is like cheating. As snobby as this is gonna sound….its true. I bought a ZCO 4-20 and almost instantly I couldn’t stand shooting my other rifle with the 4-16 ATACR. Now I have 2 ZCO 4-20. LOL
The March has better turrets, higher resolution glass, more FOV, and additional features that just aren’t present in the ZCO. It’s been said before and it’ll continue to be said as more and more people see and get behind the March. The March PRS edition has some of the best prs shooters in the world going damn this thing is really good!

If you felt this way before just wait til you get behind a very good wide angle optic you just can’t go back… you can’t “unsee” just how good it is.
 
I wouldn’t say it’s clearer, but the target looks larger/closer thru the ZCO at equal magnifications. Obvious enough that I asked someone else to look thru them and they agreed. Second thought was maybe I’m perceiving it smaller due to the wide angle of the March, but there is really not a K540i FOV difference between these two.
The FOV between the March 5-42 and the ZCO 5-27 is actually quite significant and will make targets feel smaller but the mag ranges are virtually identical between the brands on top tier optics.
 
I realize what I’m seeing now. Shit was playing tricks on me…
Please don't beat yourself up on this. Let me tell you a story.
A few years ago, March introduced the March-X 8-80X56 HM Majesta. The original 8-80X56 has an AOV of 20°, which is pretty much the standard in eyepieces. The regular eyepieces range for about 18 to about 22-23°. In F-Class (boo, hiss), the eyepieces of all the top riflescopes are between 19 and 20°. In 2022, I had a prototype of the Majesta, and I lent it to a great F-Open shooter (I'm an old decrepit, past my prime F-TR shooter,)and he won the Nationals with the Majesta. He was running it at 80X in Phoenix at 1000 yards. He said when the mirage was too soupy, he backed it off some and when he looked, it was at 75X. The FOV of the Majesta allowed him to see his entire target at 80X and half the target on either side of his. Keep that in mind.

The Majesta was released in 2023 and has been winning the F-Open Nationals and/or also taking second place and more ever since then. It just won the Euros at Bisley last month. Most people run it at 80X, but there are some who back off to 60X and don't even use a spotting scope anymore because they see all they want to see at 60X in a Majesta.

Interlude. The vast majority of shooters are unable to properly compare optics, even side by side. Here's why: they can't compare like for like. I have been attending SHOT Show in the March booth since 2018. I have observed hundreds of people looking at, through, and around riflescopes. They will wind the zoom down to the bottom and then cycle it through to the max, and then back and forth a few times and nod their head. What did they see? What did they expect to see? What is their recollection? They have no clue. It's not to be nasty, but it's reality. If I give you a Majesta to look through and you go through the ritual I just talked about, you will see a BRIGHT, huge, dazzling image going from 8X to about 40X. After that, it starts getting a little darker, and darker and more so. When you get to the top end, 80X, it's friggin dark and tough to hold. Especially when you're standing up, holding your bag of giveaways. So, I put it on a tripod, which makes it a little easier to see. Your memory of this riflescope: it sure gets dark and touchy at the top end. You're absolutely correct, but when you compare it to a riflescope that has a zoom range from say, 15X to 55X, you think that brand doesn't get nearly as dark at the top end. In reality, you have compared an 8X to 80X zoom (10X zoom) to a 15-55X (3.5X zoom). End of interlude.

A few months after the Majesta's introduction, a friend of mine who was shooting a 15-55X riflescope, wanted to see what the big deal was with the Majesta. I offered him to look through mine as my rifle was on the line. He got behind it and looked through at the F-class target 1000 yards away. After a bit, he got up and he said that he couldn't see what the big deal was. I asked him to check the magnification setting on the Majesta. I have mine at 80X all the time. He said, it's 80X. I asked him at which power his scope was set and he said 55X. I then asked him to set the Majesta at 55X and that another look. His face spoke volumes. He understood the difference.

I already talked about different zoom ratios, but now he had stumbled on the different AOV issue. You see, the 15-55X scope he was used to has an AOV of about 20°. The magic is that at 73X, the Majesta has the same AOV as the other scope at 55X. The difference between 73X and 80X, is mouse nuts in this comparison. His brain was used to seeing the F-class target at 55X, with half a target on either side. It was getting the same picture in the Majesta at 80X, but the brain didn't grasp that the picture was bigger, it just saw it as darker. 80X will be darker than 55X. When he wound down the Majesta to 55X, the AOV was a lot bigger, and the image was much brighter. It takes a while for the brain to adjust and figure out that the size of the target is the same 55X for both scopes, but that the Majesta shows a lot more of the surrounding environment. This fools the brain into thinking the image of the target is smaller. But it's not and you can easily place the reticle. When you crank the Majesta back to 80X, the target view is the same as the other scope's at 55X (near enough) but the brain doesn't realize it. It's only when you start placing the reticle on the 80X image that you realize you can be much more surgical in the reticle placement.


When you try to compare two or more riflescopes, you have to be very much aware of the specs for each: zoom ratio, low mag, high mag, and AOV. People make statements such as "March scopes are dark" because they don't grasp that it's an 8X or 10X zoom, compared to a 3X or 4X zoom. From bottom to top, a 10X zoom will darken, much more than a 4X zoom. But then you compare at the same exact magnification on both scopes, the results are different. It's even more insidious comparing wide angle riflescopes to regular riflescopes, as you have discovered.

This is why I am saying the vast majority of shooters can't compare riflescopes. The best way to do that is to use the riflescope and see if it limits you more than the other scope, or does it allow you to perform better. This is what we are seeing now with the March-FX 5-42X56 PRS scope.

The extra AOV (Angle of View) allows you to either run at higher mag, be more surgical in placement of the reticle and maintain the same image to your brain as before, or, run at the same magnification as before and use the larger view to detect condition changes and gain extra awareness. Or a little of both. Either way, I think you will see that the added AOV will enhance your performance.

It has been my experience that most people will default back to having the same sight picture and will benefit from the higher magnification. But there are some shooters who prefer to take advantage of the larger picture at the same magnification.

And before you ask, yes, I believe there is such a thing as too much AOV in a riflescope, but that's for another day.

Sorry for the long rambling post.