For argument's sake- lets say you found yourself having dinner with the world's foremost WWII historian- what would you ask them?

#51
Was the mustache man wrong?

6 million pizzas in that short of time doesnt sound plausible, bullshit number bumps or legit?

Why have a gluttonous drunk run the Luftwaffe?

Why didn’t H man listen to his HAND PICKED military leaders when planning attacks/defensive measures?
And so many more questions. Never understood that about how much fuckery a one nut having, failed artist did that baffles me.
 
#53
sirhrmechanic said:
The Germans had no intention of invading Greece or getting there through Yugo...

But the bloviating idiot Mussolini (watch me swing from my toes, Hitler!) tried to invade Greece and fucked it up so Bad that the Germans had to clean up the mess. Sort of like they fucked up Ethiopia. And Libya. And became a millstone around the Austrian Painter's neck for the whole war. Sort of the Fiat of invading armies.

This Italian adventure diverted quite a few German divisions from the planned USSR invasion... and delayed Barbarossa significantly. This delay cost the Germans Moscow. Not the war. But Moscow.

Loss of Moscow would not likely have caused USSR to "Surrender" as they would have still moved everything East into the Urals. including the Politburo. Which they did anyway... all the factories and economy. So nothing would have really changed, except Moscow would have been destroyed. But the Wehrmacht would have taken Moscow almost certainly if they had another month of weather. Which would have had a psychological impact on the war... If not an ultimate outcome change.

Read Richard Overy... Why the Allies Won. From the '70s. An economists analysis of WW2. And he showed beyond reasonable doubt that the Krauts, Wops and Nips were finished before it started. It all came down to economics. And the Axis were too stupid to do the math. You know... racial supremacy and all that. Including the Dagos... who thought they were Roman Legions or something. When, really, they had spent 1800 years drinking water out of lead pipes and fought accordingly.

The Best of Italy migrated to New York in the early 1900's... Just 'sayin!

Cheers,

Sirhr
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I will look up Richard Overy. And appreciate the informed responses! Good stuff.
 
#54
#55
War is based on deception. History was written by those that lie and deceive us the most and continue to do so today. What its true intent and what went on behind the scenes we'll never know. If we had no internet and were forced to get our info from the news like in the 40's we'd all be convinced right now that Trump is the equivalent to Hitler, or at least what we were told Hitler was. We certainly profited from the war, everything we stole out of it. People, technology, who knows what else. The entire NASA team was formed with nazi scientists. FBI documents show we knew Hitler escaped to Argentina. Most what we were told was BS.. So a WWII "Historian" is not much more than a circus clown at this point.
My question would be - Did we make a deal with Hitler and the Nazis? ... and is that why the jews want to destroy this country still?
 
#57
Milf Dots said:
As a Christian Conservative, I'm amazed at the things people believe. Thank God the anti-Semites (and/or haters of Law Enforcement) are such a small fringe of the Conservative movement. It's almost like some conservatives are democrats.
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Then its just a coincidence that they are involved in so many things? Epstein, 9/11, Kirk.. While not being directly involved its just by chance they are tied to so many aspects of everything. If being an anti-semite means you dont trust the Israel govt... I'll proudly wear that badge. Im amazed at those that assume fabricated identities to then make their minds up for them what they see and hear.
 
#58
i'll say that,as far as WW2 goes,there has been a lot of bad info out there for many diff reasons. not all historians are fakers,however. you really have to read well more than 1 source to get much of a picture on anything. helps to know their sources. learn what you can,form an opinion or belief and modify when more evidence shows up. IMHO re WW2,the stuff written from '90 going forward is more credible than the stuff from the 40s and 50s.
 
#60
IMG_3514.jpeg


Got it on the way.

Hopefully I am capable of reading and comprehending it.
 
#61
Milf Dots said:
As a Christian Conservative, I'm amazed at the things people believe. Thank God the anti-Semites (and/or haters of Law Enforcement) are such a small fringe of the Conservative movement. It's almost like some conservatives are democrats.
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It is far more accurate to say that mainstream Christianity, and by association, mainstream conservatism, has been indoctrinated for ages to 'believe' that Israel is special and their shits don't stink.

On the other hand, Jesus said, (paraphrased) "You think your special because your Jews? God could make Jews out of those rocks." And, those who have truly accepted Christ are adopted into the family.

Jews aren't special, Israel isn't a gift from God, and they sure aren't our ally, they're playing on your ignorance.

@Defiantly_Not_Bender
 
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#66
Maggot said:
Not saying it is or isn't so but can you produce the evidence of that? Those Argentinian women certainly have some Aryan genes in there. Better than Sidney Sweeney.
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I dont have anything. It was on the Hunting HItler series with Tim Kennedy, they showed the documents that the FBI had and did nothing. Seems logical, the empire they had, what they created, their efforts, and how huge their bunkers, tunnels, technology, war effort... etc.. were... why would they not have an escape route? Lies and deception... thats how our govt works. I find it more believable than what our govt says. The tech boom after the war came from somewhere and we'd have done anything for it to get it before the Russians... so I dont doubt we made a deal with Hitler one bit.
 
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#67
Green461 said:
I dont have anything. It was on the Hunting HItler series with Tim Kennedy, they showed the documents that the FBI had and did nothing. Seems logical, the empire they had, what they created, their efforts, and how huge their bunkers, tunnels, technology, war effort... etc.. were... why would they not have an escape route? Lies and deception... thats how our govt works. I find it more believable than what our govt says. The tech boom after the war came from somewhere and we'd have done anything for it to get it before the Russians... so I dont doubt we made a deal with Hitler one bit.
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Tim Kennedy, the stolen valor fraud? You believe him?
 
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#68
Green461 said:
I dont have anything. It was on the Hunting HItler series with Tim Kennedy, they showed the documents that the FBI had and did nothing. Seems logical, the empire they had, what they created, their efforts, and how huge their bunkers, tunnels, technology, war effort... etc.. were... why would they not have an escape route? Lies and deception... thats how our govt works. I find it more believable than what our govt says. The tech boom after the war came from somewhere and we'd have done anything for it to get it before the Russians... so I dont doubt we made a deal with Hitler one bit.
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That's thin.
 
#69
The Wehrmacht invaded Russia with most of their fuel and supplies being pulled by horses and most of its infantry on foot. So they were moving pretty slow. Yet they captured hundreds of thousands of Russian troops in the opening weeks of Barbarossa. The Luftwaffe’s relatively short range fighters destroyed hundreds on Russian fighters on the first day. What were all those Russian soldiers and planes doing that close to central/Western Europe? What do you think they were doing? Prepping for the world’s largest picnic?
 
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#70
Milf Dots said:
No Adolf, fuck you and your fellow anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, anti-American, Nazi Trantifa enablers!

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Neither ignorance, nor obstinance are suitable counters to cognitive dissonance. You remind me of those so called Christians who go around yelling at people, "You saved? You're going to hell if you ain't saved." And then determining they're going to hell because you were dipped instead of submersed.Or because you say "Yeshua" in stead of "Jesus". You might want to get the tre out of your eye before you go picking at a splinter in someone welses. Grow up.
 
#71
The miracle at midway could use some clearing up seeing that much of the japanese records went down with their carriers and US after action reports from the hornet's squadrons are suspect /missing/ never written / altered [edited ] . Had the US got the worse there DOZENS would have been court- marshaled
 
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#72
mosin46 said:
i'll say that,as far as WW2 goes,there has been a lot of bad info out there for many diff reasons. not all historians are fakers,however. you really have to read well more than 1 source to get much of a picture on anything. helps to know their sources. learn what you can,form an opinion or belief and modify when more evidence shows up. IMHO re WW2,the stuff written from '90 going forward is more credible than the stuff from the 40s and 50s.
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Yeah if I ever spoke to a "reknown" historian, my first few Qs would be --

- what were your sources used
- what other sources did you review and reject
- why did you use or reject a given source
- how do you avoid confirmation bias
- what's the biggest mistake you've made as a "historian"

From areas where I've received post-HS education -- Biology, Engineering, Law -- the way those subjects are portrayed in generic media, or even niche media, is well below what the informed serious student/degree holder would want to see, depth and scope wise. Lots of "reknown" academics/personalities are PR projects and not peer-respected Top of the Heap sorts.
 
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#73
LuckyLuke80 said:
Tim Kennedy, the stolen valor fraud? You believe him?
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He was just an actor in a documentary. He is irrelevant. Why do people believe Hitler committed suicide in a bunker? If people actually looked into it they'd see there is more conclusive evidence that bigfoot exists than that ever happened. We've been duped on a lot of things. We've been conditioned, programmed, and with the advent of the internet you can see it still happening in real time. There is a necessary evil in controlling a populous. Our govt is no different than Hitler by any means. Israel is even worse.
 
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#74
1760880683342.jpeg




Hitlers dental x-rays( taken a few months before his corpse was found) are included with this link. Which confirm the teeth the Soviets have match his xrays. Also included are statements from his dentist and many other Medical professionals coming to the same conclusion



Its baffles me that people still dismiss solid evidence of his death while making unproven fictitious claims.

Also when the pressure was on, he didn’t fight, like the coward he always was…
 
#76
#77
Username* said:
View attachment 8790074



Hitlers dental x-rays( taken a few months before his corpse was found) are included with this link. Which confirm the teeth the Soviets have match his xrays. Also included are statements from his dentist and many other Medical professionals coming to the same conclusion



Its baffles me that people still dismiss solid evidence of his death while making unproven fictitious claims.

Also when the pressure was on, he didn’t fight, like the coward he always was…
Click to expand...

Its on the internet so it must be true.
 
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#78
Green461 said:
He was just an actor in a documentary. He is irrelevant. Why do people believe Hitler committed suicide in a bunker? If people actually looked into it they'd see there is more conclusive evidence that bigfoot exists than that ever happened. We've been duped on a lot of things. We've been conditioned, programmed, and with the advent of the internet you can see it still happening in real time. There is a necessary evil in controlling a populous. Our govt is no different than Hitler by any means. Israel is even worse.
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So he’s still alive? And he’d be 136 years old😆
 
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#80
LuckyLuke80 said:
So he’s still alive? And he’d be 136 years old😆
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No one ever claimed that. You operate like the CIA, make up such bogus BS so that it dilutes the truth and you can laugh at your bogus claim and everyone sees how bogus it is as it distracts from the actual thing said. Its either a crafted deception, or an extreme mental disorder. I have a friend like that. I say one thing and he hears an entire made up something else, like his perception is so deprogrammed he cant comprehend reality and normal communication. Where and how did you perceive that Hitler was still alive out of a statement that said he may have gone to Argentina after the war? :D

There were several documented Nazis that went to S. America.... They had everything in order down there before the war even ended. Extensive bunkers, etc.... Several documented sightings of Hitler down there. It was common knowledge there. But to be so naive to believe our govt and written history... lol. Like the JFK event, they can never tell us because they were involved. Its a feel good war ending to say he died a coward in a bunker.. Just like the bullet was laying on JFk's gurney in perfect shape. The real reason we entered Vietnam. ... so much bs through out history, yet people still believe it... lol.

WWII wasnt about the race to steal technology?.....yet look what happened right after. Roswell UFO crash in 47, just so happen to have been similar tech the nazis were working on.... BAM!! Its now in the US, NASA all nazis, an entire town Huntsville AL, was all brought over here.
There is more to WWII than we were told... Be nice to know. Regardless of how corrupt and crooked our govt is and who and how they made deals. Hilters own speeches are not what we were told in schools. Now AI can translate them and we can see ourselves.
 
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#81
Green461 said:
There were several documented Nazis that went to S. America.... They had everything in order down there before the war even ended. Extensive bunkers, etc.... Several documented sightings of Hitler down there. It was common knowledge there.
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You have actual solid evidence of that?
Or just…
Green461 said:
Its on the internet so it must be true.
Click to expand...
 
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#82
Username* said:
View attachment 8790074



Hitlers dental x-rays( taken a few months before his corpse was found) are included with this link. Which confirm the teeth the Soviets have match his xrays. Also included are statements from his dentist and many other Medical professionals coming to the same conclusion



Its baffles me that people still dismiss solid evidence of his death while making unproven fictitious claims.

Also when the pressure was on, he didn’t fight, like the coward he always was…
Click to expand...
actually,no,if you refer to Hitler. he was a decorated WW1 vet. iron cross 2nd class,i think. was "wounded"-gassed late in the war and was hospitalized blind for awhile. his job in the trenches was message runner. not super survivable for many. how he acted after taking over is another discussion.
his veteran service went a long way to making him popular and appealing to the German veteran world and the anti communist rt wing. he played that tune constantly. many of his early followers would be called war heroes here and now. Goering was a high scoring fighter ace,Rohm was a decorated vet officer. not all were such. Himmler and Goebbels were not such. what these men became later is a well known part of the Nazi story.
yea,the Russians have his teeth and i think the usual story seems to be true.
 
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#83
mosin46 said:
actually,no,if you refer to Hitler. he was a decorated WW1 vet. iron cross 2nd class,i think. was "wounded"-gassed late in the war and was hospitalized blind for awhile. his job in the trenches was message runner. not super survivable for many. how he acted after taking over is another discussion.
his veteran service went a long way to making him popular and appealing to the German veteran world and the anti communist rt wing. he played that tune constantly. many of his early followers would be called war heroes here and now. Goering was a high scoring fighter ace,Rohm was a decorated vet officer. not all were such. Himmler and Goebbels were not such. what these men became later is a well known part of the Nazi story.
yea,the Russians have his teeth and i think the usual story seems to be true.
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In May of 1913 he left Austria and moved to Germany, after dodging military conscription for years in Austria. In February 1914, Austrian authorities caught up with him and deemed him unfit for service, after failing a physical. August of 1914 he signed on to a Bavarian reserve regiment though technically ineligible, as he was not a German citizen. Why he refused to fight for Austria, but wanted to be in Germany is something I don’t know?

He served in one battle as an infantry man, in which his regiment suffered 75% losses and his company 83% losses. During the fighting he was deemed ineffective and pushed to the rear by other fighting men. Which is likely why he survived.

The Nazi’s propagandized his service, making him out as some hero.

After his short infantry career he was turned into a regiment courier, and never went with in a few miles of the front, as the regiment head quarters was located miles from the front. He was not a company or battalion courier. He spent most of his time in the rear. Yes he took some shrapnel from an artillery round to the thigh and got caught in some mustard gas.

When the Russians came for him in 45, he definitely didn’t pick up a rifle and fight. Judge it as you will, I personally don’t hold him in high regard. Just another person attempting to lead the world to murder and suicide.
 
#84
Username* said:
In May of 1913 he left Austria and moved to Germany, after dodging military conscription for years in Austria. In February 1914, Austrian authorities caught up with him and deemed him unfit for service, after failing a physical. August of 1914 he signed on to a Bavarian reserve regiment though technically ineligible, as he was not a German citizen. Why he refused to fight for Austria, but wanted to be in Germany is something I don’t know?

He served in one battle as an infantry man, in which his regiment suffered 75% losses and his company 83% losses. During the fighting he was deemed ineffective and pushed to the rear by other fighting men. Which is likely why he survived.

The Nazi’s propagandized his service, making him out as some hero.

After his short infantry career he was turned into a regiment courier, and never went with in a few miles of the front, as the regiment head quarters was located miles from the front. He was not a company or battalion courier. He spent most of his time in the rear. Yes he took some shrapnel from an artillery round to the thigh and got caught in some mustard gas.

When the Russians came for him in 45, he definitely didn’t pick up a rifle and fight. Judge it as you will, I personally don’t hold him in high regard. Just another person attempting to lead the world to murder and suicide.
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just putting out what i know at this point. you may or may not be more accurate. doesn't matter. not a praise of his life. he was what he was. and yes,a prime example of what sort should not be in control or have power. not much good luck on that front historically,here or anywhere else really.
 
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#85
Potsy said:
The Wehrmacht invaded Russia with most of their fuel and supplies being pulled by horses and most of its infantry on foot. So they were moving pretty slow. Yet they captured hundreds of thousands of Russian troops in the opening weeks of Barbarossa. The Luftwaffe’s relatively short range fighters destroyed hundreds on Russian fighters on the first day. What were all those Russian soldiers and planes doing that close to central/Western Europe? What do you think they were doing? Prepping for the world’s largest picnic?
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a debated topic. red army forward positioning looks like invasion prep. i think maybe. Stalin was hoping for a long war in the west. documents are +/-. there was a future plan found but way into 44 +. the Russians did prob hold or destroy some docs when them released them in 90s. so who knows? they were building up fast. thus some say Hitler had to preempt. many areas of debate about that war. maybe the biggest what if of the 20th cent.
 
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#86
The question I've always had, after I read about Weimar Republic era GER, was this -- if Hitler was responding to the frictions and insurrections caused internally from Weimar sympathy and Weimar officials, was he "attacking Russia" to chase down those people? Or was it just generically against Russia the country? If it was against Russia the country, did he blame the country for the Weimar people? Did he think they were from the same folks who ran the murder of the Tsar and family and advisors in the early 1900s?
 
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#88
flogxal said:
The question I've always had, after I read about Weimar Republic era GER, was this -- if Hitler was responding to the frictions and insurrections caused internally from Weimar sympathy and Weimar officials, was he "attacking Russia" to chase down those people? Or was it just generically against Russia the country? If it was against Russia the country, did he blame the country for the Weimar people? Did he think they were from the same folks who ran the murder of the Tsar and family and advisors in the early 1900s?
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usual story is he wanted to take space and resources from the sub human Slavs. blammed the Jews for Bolshevism. hated communism,which IMHO,is a form of Fascism. most of the violence in Weimar Germany was Communist vs more traditional German authoritarianism. the Nazis glomed on to that. you ideas might have legs but never saw any reference to those. ???
 
#89
No me neither, these Qs just sprang to mind. I don't know world history like a scholar might. I just have several decades of work trying to reconstruct events after the fact, figuring out who caused what. And I know from that work, each POV recited will have self-defending/self-protecting aspects, and other-blaming aspects within it. It isn't fun work because there's so much spin in the middle of it.

Domestically here, if you internet-research you will find lots of lefty sites glorifying the great revolution in RUS, singing its praises. From those folks you won't get any clarity on how communism and bolshevism and their cousins were liked, endorsed, whatever in GER in the 1930s and 40s. You can't get any sort of "global negative" attitudes about any marxism, socialism, leninism, communism from a lefty source. They're too busy talking like Communism is pre-ordained reality.

And any sympathies or empathies for an anti-Weimar, anti-communist, anti-bolshevik system within GER circa 1930s and 1940s, you will see derided as "Nazi" and that will end their discussion. Lack of curiosity? Lack of honesty?
 
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#90
flogxal said:
No me neither, these Qs just sprang to mind. I don't know world history like a scholar might. I just have several decades of work trying to reconstruct events after the fact, figuring out who caused what. And I know from that work, each POV recited will have self-defending/self-protecting aspects, and other-blaming aspects within it. It isn't fun work because there's so much spin in the middle of it.

Domestically here, if you internet-research you will find lots of lefty sites glorifying the great revolution in RUS, singing its praises. From those folks you won't get any clarity on how communism and bolshevism and their cousins were liked, endorsed, whatever in GER in the 1930s and 40s. You can't get any sort of "global negative" attitudes about any marxism, socialism, leninism, communism from a lefty source. They're too busy talking like Communism is pre-ordained reality.

And any sympathies or empathies for an anti-Weimar, anti-communist, anti-bolshevik system within GER circa 1930s and 1940s, you will see derided as "Nazi" and that will end their discussion. Lack of curiosity? Lack of honesty?
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yea and the steel helmet group always get bad press in those places.
 
#91
I tried to understand lefties and worked in a greenie/lefty job in my early 30s. I gave their POV a chance to change my own. It didn't work out for them. Too much detachment from reality, as if all life is a weird egalitarian sci-fi that needs just the right "experts" in charge. And they are so obedient toward process that they stand in the way of justice.
 
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#92
flogxal said:
No me neither, these Qs just sprang to mind. I don't know world history like a scholar might. I just have several decades of work trying to reconstruct events after the fact, figuring out who caused what. And I know from that work, each POV recited will have self-defending/self-protecting aspects, and other-blaming aspects within it. It isn't fun work because there's so much spin in the middle of it.

Domestically here, if you internet-research you will find lots of lefty sites glorifying the great revolution in RUS, singing its praises. From those folks you won't get any clarity on how communism and bolshevism and their cousins were liked, endorsed, whatever in GER in the 1930s and 40s. You can't get any sort of "global negative" attitudes about any marxism, socialism, leninism, communism from a lefty source. They're too busy talking like Communism is pre-ordained reality.

And any sympathies or empathies for an anti-Weimar, anti-communist, anti-bolshevik system within GER circa 1930s and 1940s, you will see derided as "Nazi" and that will end their discussion. Lack of curiosity? Lack of honesty?
Click to expand...
I like the cut of your jib.

-LD
 
#93
mosin46 said:
a debated topic. red army forward positioning looks like invasion prep. i think maybe. Stalin was hoping for a long war in the west. documents are +/-. there was a future plan found but way into 44 +. the Russians did prob hold or destroy some docs when them released them in 90s. so who knows? they were building up fast. thus some say Hitler had to preempt. many areas of debate about that war. maybe the biggest what if of the 20th cent.
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I'm not saying either one of us is "right" or "wrong"- but I suspect we've read/heard/watched similar arguments and came to similar questions/deductions.

-LD
 
#94
Green461 said:
No one ever claimed that. You operate like the CIA, make up such bogus BS so that it dilutes the truth and you can laugh at your bogus claim and everyone sees how bogus it is as it distracts from the actual thing said. Its either a crafted deception, or an extreme mental disorder. I have a friend like that. I say one thing and he hears an entire made up something else, like his perception is so deprogrammed he cant comprehend reality and normal communication. Where and how did you perceive that Hitler was still alive out of a statement that said he may have gone to Argentina after the war? :D

There were several documented Nazis that went to S. America.... They had everything in order down there before the war even ended. Extensive bunkers, etc.... Several documented sightings of Hitler down there. It was common knowledge there. But to be so naive to believe our govt and written history... lol. Like the JFK event, they can never tell us because they were involved. Its a feel good war ending to say he died a coward in a bunker.. Just like the bullet was laying on JFk's gurney in perfect shape. The real reason we entered Vietnam. ... so much bs through out history, yet people still believe it... lol.

WWII wasnt about the race to steal technology?.....yet look what happened right after. Roswell UFO crash in 47, just so happen to have been similar tech the nazis were working on.... BAM!! Its now in the US, NASA all nazis, an entire town Huntsville AL, was all brought over here.
There is more to WWII than we were told... Be nice to know. Regardless of how corrupt and crooked our govt is and who and how they made deals. Hilters own speeches are not what we were told in schools. Now AI can translate them and we can see ourselves.
Click to expand...
1761190744039.png


I think you're onto something there...
 
#95
sloporsche said:
The miracle at midway could use some clearing up seeing that much of the japanese records went down with their carriers and US after action reports from the hornet's squadrons are suspect /missing/ never written / altered [edited ] . Had the US got the worse there DOZENS would have been court- marshaled
Click to expand...

Now this is an informed comment I can worth with- care to elaborate on this (and for the record I'm not poking fun at you as much as I'm just excited someone might know what I'm getting at).

As a reference point, here's 'an official story' of somewhat recent publication.... https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/06/05/miracle-at-midway/

What's the consensus here (on SH)- did we pull a "Hail Mary" like the general public/consumers of media (damn that was almost 100 years ago before that term existed) who understood American football references or did we "bend the truth for the greater good" and never see fit to correct the record?

I mean I have my thoughts on the topic but that's just one Duck's opinion at the end of the day.

-LD
 
#96
Guthwine said:
The arrogance argument has some merrit I think. Do not forget that many german generals at the time were WW1 vets. And in their experience France was the greater threat since Germany actually defeated the Russians in that war.

So when France fell so quickly I am sure they were riding high in their opinion that if their main opponent from WW1 fell so quickly the other nation that they already defeated once would be no problem with their new way of war fighting.
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I'm not trying to be an ass to you by any means (it is the internet & context is hard to come by hence my clarifying that) but to your point- I know that's what I was personally taught but the more I dig into the past (admittedly using different/'unapproved' sources) the more I'm questioning that particular narrative.

I can only speak for myself but the counterpoint I'm frequently coming apart to the "Hitler was arrogant" perspective seems to be "Hitler was high off of crack & had been for years".

None of which are anything other than extremes in a bigger argument that is somehow separate from the arrogance discussion/yet still related...

My point though- Hitler may have been a military genius utilizing the blitzkrieg earlier in the war and predicting the response from the Allies... conversely he might have been a fortunate idiot that just "lucked out".

I don't personally subscribe to the latter option though & I'll tell you why briefly. Hitler was by all intents & purposes 50/50 in taking control. He failed the 1st time (went to jail & wrote about his struggle) but had enough support that he popped right outta prison (as a literary heavyweight mind you) with a quasi army behind him and the second time around he "won" and everyone else in the country seemed to shrug and say- yeah makes sense.

Perhaps there are better educated historians on the Hide than I but that said- I recall in years past researching Hitler's experiences in WWI and there being a direct link to what we now call chemical/biological warfare & Hitler's refusal to incorporate those weapons during WWII.

If I'm wrong- I'm sure I'll be corrected & that's ok & for the better. That said- I think I'm remembering this right because in years past I recall thinking how... don't know what other word to us other than "odd" it would be for Hitler, as a WWI veteran who had seen combat, would draw a line at Germany using mustard gas during WWII to the point of Hitler personally saying no.

Think about this- you've got a... fellow who was at best, what a corporal during WWI? He had an otherwise 'unpleasant' experience during that time period of 4 years or so (buddy you better believe I can at least relate to that much), and then the story goes- after the war he decided to... well frankly say "fuck it" & say the war is over, 'we'/(aka Germany) lost, and to prove my anger- a Corporal is going to recover from a mustard gas attack, say 'fuck it all', abandon the German Army, and pursue painting like they were fucking Bob Ross.

Gents- that's exactly what we're told happened.
 
#97
Gunfighter14e2 said:

For argument's sake- lets say you found yourself having dinner with the world's foremost WWII historian- what would you ask them?​


I'd ask the following, If we had backed Hitler from the onset, what would this rock be like now?
Click to expand...

So that's a good point-

The more I read the more it sound like "we" (and I mean that as the collective 'we' who actually/overwhelmingly backed Nazi Germany prior to Pearl Harbor & were happy as a country to supply both sides... lend/lease on the British/Allied side & 'hey just look at brands' like 'Fanta' for the "other' side'".. that is at least up until DEC 7, 1941...
 
#98
Eostech said:
It's simple as fuck, Hitler always viewed the conflict as an existential war between Europeans (Germany) and Slavs.

Germany attacked France first precisely because they couldn't win a two front war and then moved onto the real meat and potatoes, exterminating slavs as a people and removing them from Europe.

And no, it wasn't really a two front war when Barbarossa started. If you really want to understand the scale at which the Germans fucked up, look at who they appointed as head of intelligence for the war against Russia, his sources were basically just "trust me bro", which meant Operation Barbarossa (the destruction of the Red Army) was fucked from the start.
Click to expand...

I was taught the same but I now disagree-

Hitler was a corporal on the losing side of WWI (my words). Nothing wrong with being a Corporal either but keep in mind that before he was the Fuher... he was that lower enlisted guy that after losing the war said "fuck it" & stayed in the "winning" country to be an artist and move past the war. Lord knows I can get where he might have been coming from- the Army sucks, War definitely blows hardcore donkey dick, now that "the Great War" is over, I mid as well stay here in France & paint pictures bc 'fuck France & fuck Germany" I'm going to do me.

As an aside- "we" seem to ignore the entire idea these days that someone could stay "fuck it all" & at least afford to keep a room to live out of even if it was far from glamorous but still do their thing.

And we've taught that Hitler was such a shitty painter that he was rejected by every art school and that's fueled his rage against France...

Here's an absolute "madman" who quit the German Army after they lost "the war", decided to paint pictures instead (ignoring that was an actual life choice that could support an existence as simple as an apartment & groceries), but then "something" changed.

Now this 'dude' who 'sucked at painting' was now the speaker for Germany (I assure you he had folks behind the scenes setting up the stage, telling him what to say, & pulling the strings)- but you never hear about that do you?

-LD
 
#99
So now you got "a guy" who was for all intents and purposes a "lower enlisted" soldier in WWI- who fought for the German Empire & after they "lost" he said the hell with it I mid as well just stay here in France & paint...

A decade or so later- "shit" got real and folks needed a "face". This guy Hitler seemed to stir the pot better than anyone else so we mid as well see where that goes... oops- to prison it'd seem...

Hey we aren't done yet- this guys is a practical celebrity 'we' (as in 1930's Germany) need to capitalize on this guy. Not that the "guy" was important nearly as much as the 'message' was important.

And it worked- an entire nation looked at what they were being sold and they collectively said- "Yep, I like that".

The "alliance" of nations tasked with enforcing said agreements after literal millions of people were slaughtered over nonsense said.. "enough have died by this point -eh?". & "So he wants checklosvokia- maybe he has a point, frankly I'm still recouping from the last argument..."

-LD
 
#100
LuckyDuck said:
Not disagreeing with you but the question remains- why the hell would Nazi Germany attack the Soviet Union creating a 2 front war when they had a (for all intents & purposes) treaty to not fight each other previously established?

I often hear it's due to arrogance but I don't know if I personally buy into that theory- I think the more likely explanation is that Germany believed the Soviet Union was going to violate the nonaggression pact & decided to act first (although I haven't seen anything official supporting that narrative either).

But that's the only scenario that makes sense to me personally.

-LD
Click to expand...
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin...?
 
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