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  1. J

    Do we care more about, SD or ES?

    I use ES as an indicator of cartridge quality. My ballistic chronograph is out front most bench sessions. Numbers are recorded in sets of 50 for comparison to target results. I've found that if the ES is less than 30 fps, then the quality control at the factory was very good, and results on...
  2. J

    Do we care more about, SD or ES?

    At 25 yards it's not a worry Mike. At 50 yards or more, 100 fps difference is a problem. Break out y'er calculator and run the numbers.
  3. J

    Do we care more about, SD or ES?

    I agree with ya' Lee, barrel dwell time can make a difference. I had a pencil barrel savage, barrel whip would sling strays all over creation. The more energy involved, the greater the spread in all sorts of directions. I figure that is covered as extreme barrel harmonics. ;)
  4. J

    Do we care more about, SD or ES?

    Does muzzle velocity affect trajectories? Yes. Differences in time of flight changes the amount of time gravity pulls down on the projectile. Those time differences affect the vertical location of the point of impact. Is muzzle velocity the only factor that affects vertical spread? No. Wind...
  5. J

    Do we care more about, SD or ES?

    If you simplify the calculations, standard deviation is what to expect for 2 out of 3 shots. That works out to 34 shots from a box of 50. SD ignores the other 16 shots from the box. I want to know what to expect from the full box of 50. That's why Extreme Spread is the number I care about. If...
  6. J

    Norma tac-22

    I understand your views. They were mine, until I had a problem. I had read that every rifle likes what it likes, so I went looking My 455 Lilja absolutely "loved" Wolf ME, made by SK. Sub inch groups consistently, 100 yards off the bench, box after box. Absolutely amazing results....I found the...
  7. J

    Norma tac-22

    I used to think brand made the difference. But brand didn't explain 3/8 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards. It happened with everything from bulk Federal 36 grain cphp to Lapua X-Act. What similarity does 4 cent a cartridge have with 45 cent a cartridge 22lr? It took a ballistic chronograph and...
  8. J

    Norma tac-22

    Sorry Mike, I don't subscribe to the idea that "my rifle likes". There is always a cause for each effect. Poor accuracy is always for a reason. Be it wind, shooter, unstable setup, mechanical problems or cartridge defects, there is/are always a factor(s) that results in trajectory spread. No...
  9. J

    Norma tac-22

    To be expected from the bottom half of RWS production. It's not intended to be benchrest competition ammunition. For short range offhand use, it's more than adequate. For punching center at 50 yards, there are better options. ;)
  10. J

    Norma tac-22

    It's about as accurate as you would expect, from 8 cents a cartridge 22lr, right? :sneaky:
  11. J

    Hitting what you aimed at part 4

    Okay RT.....you started it. ;) So tell me, if you had been shooting groups, would you have hit those squirrels? You know, all 5 shots at the same aimpoint....or is this a situation where one dot one shot applies? Hmmmmm? :D In my experience, you only get one shot per aimpoint, because them...
  12. J

    Whats a "good" 100 yard group size?

    I hear ya' 308.
  13. J

    Whats a "good" 100 yard group size?

    308, I'll be happy to answer y'er questions. Competition? 223 F-Class, local club rules. Adjusted for age and physical disabilities. Nationally recognized? Nope. Ranking? Middle of the competitors. Plenty better, plenty worse. Just another amateur behind the trigger. 50 plus years picking...
  14. J

    Whats a "good" 100 yard group size?

    Can we get one that auto replies when someone claims consistent sub-moa all day long? What? Just following the concept through to it's logical conclusion. Crud, if that happened I'd have no reason to post. :D
  15. J

    Whats a "good" 100 yard group size?

    Tee hee....I asked a question...What would it take? 6 hours a day of practice for me, to be competitive. Then did the math. I have zero natural talent with a firearm. I would have to work at it to become anywhere near capable of not embarrassing myself with an ARA or USBR target. As for...
  16. J

    Whats a "good" 100 yard group size?

    If I was interested in competing, what would it take? Practice, every day. 6 hours, 100 shots per hour, 600 shots, 12 boxes. 19 bucks a box, 228 bucks per session, plus tax and shipping, call it $240 a day. Thats 7200 bucks a month, just for practice. Nope, not gonna happen.
  17. J

    Whats a "good" 100 yard group size?

    That's part of the rimfire reality G, trying to find a decent batch of 22lr. Even with lot testing before purchasing, the assembly line lottery is still in effect. Some bricks are worth the money, some aren't. Same lot number, same case, yet the quality isn't the same. Not just on target, but...
  18. J

    Whats a "good" 100 yard group size?

    Thought about it and y'er right 308. High opinion and low commitment is an accurate description. After 11 years of self education, I had to make a decision. Continue with the rimfire assembly line lottery, or shift my attention to loading my own ammunition. With rimfire being dependent on the...
  19. J

    Whats a "good" 100 yard group size?

    308, if it was only that easy. I'm limited by my ability to time the squeeze to fit the local conditions, the quality of the cartridges purchased and the distance attempted. My F-Class 223 with hand loads is sub-moa at 200 yards, for score. Same shooter, half the distance, with rimfire, 1.5...
  20. J

    Whats a "good" 100 yard group size?

    That ^^^^^ is what I aspire to. I can shoot small groups. It's shooting for score that evades me. I've been told that if you can shoot tiny groups, then there's no problem punching center. I haven't found that to work in my favor. Try it y'erself. Shoot some groups, then when y'er warmed up...
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