Gunsmithing 1:12 twist RimX barrel with Padom chamber issues

[Adam B]

What a cluster, both of you are good dudes, but if Adam is saying that swapping the old barrel back on eliminates the lead shaving issue then I absolutely believe him. That makes it kind of obvious that assembly should not be an issue and there's something going on with this new barrel causing the issue if everything else is remaining the same. There's also absolutely no doubt that the shaved jackets are what's causing the accuracy issues. I don't see how this is an issue of a bad blank, and I think Joe could enhance his CS skills a bit as well. I interpret his reply as "you can jump through some more hoops and maybe we'll take it back and look at it, but no way will we refund you". IMO if a customer is legitimately delivered a sub par product it should be their choice whether they receive a replacement or a refund.

Not that anyone asked for it, but that's my $.02 from an outside perspective.

My thoughts exactly. I checked the mag height and it still did it. I also went to great lengths when I got home to verify that I wasn’t causing the issues. I put the old barrel back on and it had no issues at all. I am disgusted because of the delay and then you guys wanting me to jump through hoops. It is obvious that the issue is isolated to the barrel and nothing more.

I equate asking me to jump through hoops with the hopes that you will just replace it the same as telling me to pound sand.

It is very clear that you have very little business acumen as there are numerous posts of missed deadlines and poor customer service. Maybe you need to rethink how you run your business.

 

[padom]

So let me get this straight. It was ok for pva to use the chamber specs as long as it was done in a cnc with a boring bar, not with a reamer?

That’s a joke…. Right?!

You made those assumptions on your own and are trying to start shit. Im not going to have it, so tread lightly.

I never said to PVA or in my above posts its ok if you cut barrels and sell them only if you cut them with a boring bar. You assumed that and just made that shit up. Josh wanted to try cutting a barrel in house for himself, using just a boring bar, just like Aaron @ Zermatt had just done and asked if he could use my print to write the program off of to attempt it... Thats the extent of it. Nothing more nothing less.

Nobody even said it was a problem or not ok, you again just assumed that. I got pulled into this mess when I was told someone was posting about a barrel not shooting from another shop (at the time of being contacted didnt even know the shop in question) cutting barrels with my reamer when this person new 1 and only shop had my only reamer made and it was at Keystone.

My post was to simply state I had NO KNOWLEDGE of anyone else selling barrels with my chamber and nobody at PVA asked me to sell barrels with my chamber, whether cut with a boring bar or reamer or a big fat sharpened dildo. I had no knowledge anyone other than Keystone was selling barrels with my 22lr chamber up until this shit show thread.

So if your here to just stir the pot and bend facts and thats it, than dont be pissed with the consequences.

 

[littlepod]

Wow this got into a lot more popcorn thread than I thought.

@bohem if you need/want someone to test this barrel let me know! We have your PVA 1:12T w/ your chamber, a SJA 1:14T, Proof 1:16, and a Keystone 1:16 that we have got working w/o any issues. And an EC tuner to play with on them, not sure if we'll go into enough detail to have a "shootout" but at least can do a fitment / mag alignment test. All the other RimX barrels have worked no prob.

 

[bohem]

My thoughts exactly. I checked the mag height and it still did it. I also went to great lengths when I got home to verify that I wasn’t causing the issues. I put the old barrel back on and it had no issues at all. I am disgusted because of the delay and then you guys wanting me to jump through hoops. It is obvious that the issue is isolated to the barrel and nothing more.

I equate asking me to jump through hoops with the hopes that you will just replace it the same as telling me to pound sand.

It is very clear that you have very little business acumen as there are numerous posts of missed deadlines and poor customer service. Maybe you need to rethink how you run your business.

It's still not obvious that it's isolated to the barrel. You're not properly isolating variables.

Having to cram the magazine in there to lock it in place is another clue that it's not properly adjusted. Someone else in here told you that too.

If it's shaving lead then there is a problem that will show up on the target. The bullets are out of shape once you start cutting lead off them.
It could be an adjustment problem. Having to cram the magazine up into the chassis to lock it in place means it's too high. The ammo in the mag is going to press on the bottom of the bolt head and with the clearance in the raceway it will push the bolt nose high out of alignment. It doesn't matter if the lead shaves on the top or bottom of the bullet, it's still shaving. It sounds like the magazine needs to come down about 0.020-0.030" to start. Keep dropping it down until the shaving stops, then go a little further to see where the shaving starts again. This will be your adjustment window. Try to aim for the middle of the window so you're not working around the limits.

These are the things that I planned to discuss with you when I replied that we can walk you through it or we can do it here for you, just let me know how you'd like to proceed. Demanding a refund outright, then villifying us on a public forum and not telling me or anyone else the whole story is about as far from above-board as it gets.

A larger chamfer on the mouth of the chamber will also affect this and affect how sensitive the magazine height is. There are trade offs to all of these things, we follow the Zermatt recommended chamfer to print for obvious reasons. Ignition issues and consistency of the ignition (not just making the ammo go Bang) is very important to how the rifle will shoot at long(er) distances like 200, which is stated as to why you bought the barrel to begin with.

I know you're not going to take this advice, you're also too far down the rabbit hole of calling us out and telling the world how we fucked you to back off and fix the barrel. But again, for those reading: If you're having lead shaving and accuracy issues on a RimX it doesn't necessarily mean the barrel is screwed up. It means that troubleshooting needs to be done to rule out issues, most of the time it's not the barrel it's the overall assembly/installation.

Asserting otherwise is like saying "He has a cough, it must be lung cancer". Or it could be a cold, or WuFlu, or pneumonia, or a myriad of other issues... it could be lung cancer. But don't tell the person it's lung cancer til you've properly ruled it in or out with testing.

The internet guru's are incredibly fast to blame accuracy problems on the barrel and the gunsmith, it's a good thing Doctors slow down or else there would be a lot more people on Chemo than is necessary.

Wow this got into a lot more popcorn thread than I thought.

@bohem if you need/want someone to test this barrel let me know! We have your PVA 1:12T w/ your chamber, a SJA 1:14T, Proof 1:16, and a Keystone 1:16 that we have got working w/o any issues. And an EC tuner to play with on them, not sure if we'll go into enough detail to have a "shootout" but at least can do a fitment / mag alignment test. All the other RimX barrels have worked no prob.

Thanks for the offer. I appreciate it. This barrel doesn't have the EC Tuner cut on it but otherwise it's open for discussion. I'll reach out via PM.

 

[Geno C.]

I’m not stirring anything. @st1650 Posting some second hand info that he doesn’t know the full story in to bash a hide vender isn’t?

I was stating how your post came across. I’m not the only one that took it that way. At the beginning of you’re post, you’re angry but at the end you say it wouldn’t be a big deal.

 

[st1650]

I’m not stirring anything. @st1650 Posting some second hand info that he doesn’t know the full story in to bash a hide vender isn’t?

I was stating how your post came across. I’m not the only one that took it that way. At the beginning of you’re post, you’re angry but at the end you say it wouldn’t be a big deal.

I specifically said that I had fellow shooters that bought PVA prefits and they didn’t shoot, the dealer/importer (not PVA) didn’t want to stand behind their product and they had to take their barrel to get rechambered. I don’t own PVA products, I don’t have a dog in this fight.

 

[Adam B]

It's still not obvious that it's isolated to the barrel. You're not properly isolating variables.

Having to cram the magazine in there to lock it in place is another clue that it's not properly adjusted. Someone else in here told you that too.

If it's shaving lead then there is a problem that will show up on the target. The bullets are out of shape once you start cutting lead off them.
It could be an adjustment problem. Having to cram the magazine up into the chassis to lock it in place means it's too high. The ammo in the mag is going to press on the bottom of the bolt head and with the clearance in the raceway it will push the bolt nose high out of alignment. It doesn't matter if the lead shaves on the top or bottom of the bullet, it's still shaving. It sounds like the magazine needs to come down about 0.020-0.030" to start. Keep dropping it down until the shaving stops, then go a little further to see where the shaving starts again. This will be your adjustment window. Try to aim for the middle of the window so you're not working around the limits.

These are the things that I planned to discuss with you when I replied that we can walk you through it or we can do it here for you, just let me know how you'd like to proceed. Demanding a refund outright, then villifying us on a public forum and not telling me or anyone else the whole story is about as far from above-board as it gets.

A larger chamfer on the mouth of the chamber will also affect this and affect how sensitive the magazine height is. There are trade offs to all of these things, we follow the Zermatt recommended chamfer to print for obvious reasons. Ignition issues and consistency of the ignition (not just making the ammo go Bang) is very important to how the rifle will shoot at long(er) distances like 200, which is stated as to why you bought the barrel to begin with.

I know you're not going to take this advice, you're also too far down the rabbit hole of calling us out and telling the world how we fucked you to back off and fix the barrel. But again, for those reading: If you're having lead shaving and accuracy issues on a RimX it doesn't necessarily mean the barrel is screwed up. It means that troubleshooting needs to be done to rule out issues, most of the time it's not the barrel it's the overall assembly/installation.

Asserting otherwise is like saying "He has a cough, it must be lung cancer". Or it could be a cold, or WuFlu, or pneumonia, or a myriad of other issues... it could be lung cancer. But don't tell the person it's lung cancer til you've properly ruled it in or out with testing.

The internet guru's are incredibly fast to blame accuracy problems on the barrel and the gunsmith, it's a good thing Doctors slow down or else there would be a lot more people on Chemo than is necessary.


Thanks for the offer. I appreciate it. This barrel doesn't have the EC Tuner cut on it but otherwise it's open for discussion. I'll reach out via PM.

I am fully aware on how to setup a RimX mag so it feeds properly as well as if you modify a bullet it will change the accuracy.

The bottom line is I waited patiently for this barrel and when it showed up it didn’t work. I am not taking a second of my time to mess with it, especially when another barrel in the same action with the same mag height works perfectly.

 

[Midwestside]

I can't tell anybody how to spend their time to remedy, but @spife7980 suggestion in Post #19 to hand feed under the extractor with group results might eliminate some differences in opinion about the mag adjustment.

 

[Schütze]

If you remove the fixed ejector, you can load a round in the removed bolt and reinsert both together for chamber / barrel diagnosis

 

[Long_Action]

When you swap out a barrel, the bore should be concentric with the O.D., so mag height shouldn't change. Maybe run a gage pin in the chamber and figure out the largest pin that fits... Should be around .2250. Adam, I have a Leblond/Makino lathe in my shop. I can give you specs and dimensions if needed.

 

[E. Bryant]

When you swap out a barrel, the bore should be concentric with the O.D., so mag height shouldn't change. Maybe run a gage pin in the chamber and figure out the largest pin that fits... Should be around .2250. Adam, I have a Leblond/Makino lathe in my shop. I can give you specs and dimensions if needed.

If I'm picking up what @bohem is laying down, it's not that there is any difference in chamber concentricity relative to the receiver, but rather that perhaps other barrels have a more generous chamfer on the chamber entrance and thus are more tolerant of improper mag height. This hypothesis should be fairly easy to confirm with the rifle and various barrels in hand.

I have a TOS Trecin lathe in my shop, and cannot give any specs or dimensions relevant to this conversation but I can make big pieces of metal into smaller round pieces of metal fairly quickly.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Everybody on this site needs to switch to decaf.

 

[Geno C.]

Everybody on this site needs to switch to decaf.

Don Carlos or die ️

 

[Mike Casselton]

Everybody on this site needs to switch to decaf.

That would truly start a war.

 

[jbell]

What a cluster, both of you are good dudes, but if Adam is saying that swapping the old barrel back on eliminates the lead shaving issue then I absolutely believe him. That makes it kind of obvious that assembly should not be an issue and there's something going on with this new barrel causing the issue if everything else is remaining the same. There's also absolutely no doubt that the shaved jackets are what's causing the accuracy issues. I don't see how this is an issue of a bad blank, and I think Joe could enhance his CS skills a bit as well. I interpret his reply as "you can jump through some more hoops and maybe we'll take it back and look at it, but no way will we refund you". IMO if a customer is legitimately delivered a sub par product it should be their choice whether they receive a replacement or a refund.

Not that anyone asked for it, but that's my $.02 from an outside perspective.

Agreed...

 

[Rob01]

There is no doubt something is going on here with the barrel but also too much "interpreting" what PVA was saying. They said what they said. They didn't say "pound sand" or "you can jump through some more hoops and maybe we'll take it back and look at it, but no way will we refund you". Basing it off what they were told by the OP and not knowing he had other barrels they were just trying to help a customer. Having known Josh for many years and before PVA was a thought in his head I know he's a good guy and honest and I know he would try and make this problem right. I have probably 4 prefit barrels from Josh and all shoot and function great although they are centerfire and not relevant to this discussion but again knowing how Josh has great attention to detail I am sure if something is wrong it was the exception and not the rule.

Adam seems to be upset with the wait as he brings it up in most posts and why he doesn't want to work to see if anything helps with the barrel. Waits suck. I get it and longer than quoted waits suck worse but in this industry, especially these past couple years, it happens. I know. I am waiting on something that was supposed to be done in the middle of January and still no idea when it will be here. I am bummed and would like it now but I am waiting. I would say to Adam to take a breath and give PVA a call and get it hashed out. No need for internet drama and screaming on the site. So all take a sip of the decaf and relax. It's a rifle barrel and not the end of the world.

 

[Baron23]

I would say to Adam to take a breath and give PVA a call and get it hashed out. No need for internet drama and screaming on the site. So all take a sip of the decaf and relax. It's a rifle barrel and not the end of the world.

Great advise right here ^^

 

[Baron23]

Oh, and I have a bit of a background in tech product testing and yes, putting the OG barrel back on the action in question and have it function perfectly in question certainly does contribute to isolating the fault to the barrel.

But, IMO, to ice it the OP should put the PVA barrel on one of his other properly operating Rim X actions and see if the issue travels with the barrel. If so, all questions become moot, I believe.

Cheers

 

[Cynical]

It’s easy to tell the guy to take a breath and call PVA to work it out. But how’s PVA going to work this out? It sounds like PVA possibly has a proprietary reamer obtained on the sly (they had drawings, we know that, but no one is saying exactly how a reamer was procured from proprietary drawings provided for a different purpose). I don’t think I would want another barrel in this situation. There’s so much hair on this snafu that a refund check should be written and everyone should move on. It is the only logical path in my opinion. At some point little things like this start to affect bigger things in a business.

 

[padom]

I’m not stirring anything. @st1650 Posting some second hand info that he doesn’t know the full story in to bash a hide vender isn’t?

I was stating how your post came across. I’m not the only one that took it that way. At the beginning of you’re post, you’re angry but at the end you say it wouldn’t be a big deal.

@st1650 posting that his fellow shooters had/have issues with PVA barrels is simplying stating information. Thats what you do on a forum. I would hardly call that bashing a Hide Vendor. Its up to the readers to decide how important or accurate that information is. Vendors deal with this every day on the Hide and the Vendors on here have some pretty big balls to deal with forums. Do Commercial Supporting Vendors that pay to advertise and be on Snipers Hide get protected more so than others and are watched closer. Sure. But that doesnt mean every post is deleted that doesnt hold supporting vendors in high praise.

In the beginning of my post I said I was angry Josh didnt return my texts or calls to discuss this and find out whats going and instead he went posting publicly which is exactly what I tried to avoid as to not continue to flame this thread and deal with it offline. Thats what I said I was angry about.

In the end of my post I said it wouldnt be a big deal that he had a reamer made and was selling it, I just didnt know he was doing that up until this weekend when this thread got started. How would I know this if Josh never told me or asked me?

See, you left out a lot of content from my post from beginning to end....

To be clear, I was just at PVA 2 weeks ago doing IT work for Josh. Josh did get back to me and we have spoken and I told him exactly what I posted in this thread and he understands. He didnt see my texts or missed calls before posting in this thread. We are good. Yes PVA does have a reamer cut to my print made by JGS. No, I did not know that until yesterday when we spoke.

As someone that probably has close to the most rounds fired out of a RimX since its release, @orkan being the other that probably has the same or more than me, I have offered to test this barrel I told Josh once returned to PVA after they inspect it for any machining issues to test accuracy and check lead shaving. I have many many lots of CenterX, SK RM, SK+, WME, Tennex, FGMM, R50, etc etc left over from my RimX review and barrel testing.

 

[Rob01]

It’s easy to tell the guy to take a breath and call PVA to work it out. But how’s PVA going to work this out? It sounds like PVA possibly has a proprietary reamer obtained on the sly (they had drawings, we know that, but no one is saying exactly how a reamer was procured from proprietary drawings provided for a different purpose). I don’t think I would want another barrel in this situation. There’s so much hair on this snafu that a refund check should be written and everyone should move on. It is the only logical path in my opinion. At some point little things like this start to affect bigger things in a business.

Yes it is easy to say it and harder to do but it's the right way to go forward. You can say that refunds should be given having seen all the info but in the beginning when PVA got the info they didn't know a lot of the info and were trying to help a customer out as any good company should. I am sure PVA will refund but a refund should not be the first option in a case like this and trying to help the customer use the product that they waited for is a better option. In the end it seems like Adam is just to angry with the wait and product that going forward with PVA would be an option but unless he contacts them and talks to them it won't be as easy to do that. So again contacting and working it out is the right way to proceed.

 

[Adam B]

Rob your right, I am pissed about the wait. I asked every 2-3 weeks on the status after they lapsed on the 8 week delivery window, and every time they replied it was coming up next. If they had told me 24 weeks and delivered in 20 I would be over the moon. Instead they told me 6-8 weeks. I was really hoping to have it before the rimfire nationals and they missed that too. Then I was strung along for weeks and when it finally shows up and it doesn’t work. I just have no patience for that. I may be unreasonable but if they could actually meet a promised deadline things would be different.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

I don't have a dog in the fight other than I've purchased from PVA before. I didn't have a problem getting a pre-fit during a scheduled sale and I think it actually shipped the afternoon of the day it was ordered. This was pre-kung flu.

While we may want to go back to normal life as it was, with scheduled dates for matches, etc. I think you have to realize these are abnormal times. Unfortunately it's looking like delays, no stock, or being forced to buy immediately are the new norms if you want anything. Situation sucks for the OP but I believe it will get resolved.