Hello all. I am looking for a dedicated Target rifle in 22 LR. I have it narrowed down between the 2 of those rifles. Which would you go with and why? I am putting a Bushnell Elite 4200 3-9x40 on top of it.
10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
- Thread starter Jeremybj
- Start date
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
either will shoot good, IMHO the 10/22 will take nore to make it happen, but it really comes down to if you want a semi or a bolt
either will shoot good, IMHO the 10/22 will take nore to make it happen, but it really comes down to if you want a semi or a bolt
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
The Savage MK II TR without a doubt. The reason is simple... Bolt actions are always more accurate than semi-autos. Not saying that there is anything wrong with wrong 10/22's, they're just not as accurate.
The Savage MK II TR without a doubt. The reason is simple... Bolt actions are always more accurate than semi-autos. Not saying that there is anything wrong with wrong 10/22's, they're just not as accurate.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
One of each.
I think everyone should own at least one 10/22. They can be made to shoot very easily. I just bought the TR and it is still being threaded so no idea on how it is gonna turn out.
One of each.
I think everyone should own at least one 10/22. They can be made to shoot very easily. I just bought the TR and it is still being threaded so no idea on how it is gonna turn out.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
I love my 10/22 it shoots lights out till the redical in me scope fell apart
I love my 10/22 it shoots lights out till the redical in me scope fell apart
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
I have a 10/22 with a tactical solutions barrel and Kidd trigger group. The thing shoots awesome. 10/22 rifles can compete with bolt guns, it just takes some money to do it.
Stock out of the box, I would think the Mark 2 TR will out shoot the 10/22. If you replace the barrel, stock, and trigger in the 10/22 with quality parts, you will be able to hang with most bolt 22 lr rifles.
I have a 10/22 with a tactical solutions barrel and Kidd trigger group. The thing shoots awesome. 10/22 rifles can compete with bolt guns, it just takes some money to do it.
Stock out of the box, I would think the Mark 2 TR will out shoot the 10/22. If you replace the barrel, stock, and trigger in the 10/22 with quality parts, you will be able to hang with most bolt 22 lr rifles.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Situation Normal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Savage MK II TR without a doubt. The reason is simple... Bolt actions are always more accurate than semi-autos. Not saying that there is anything wrong with wrong 10/22's, they're just not as accurate. </div></div>
Say what? Bolt actions are NOT ALWAYS more accurate than semi autos. All and always are mighty big words. Some bolt guns are more accurate than some semi autos but your statement seems to be all inclusive which makes it patently false.
Personally I am not a huge fan of either gun mentioned here but if I had to pick from the 2 I would choose the 10/22. It has the most potential.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Situation Normal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Savage MK II TR without a doubt. The reason is simple... Bolt actions are always more accurate than semi-autos. Not saying that there is anything wrong with wrong 10/22's, they're just not as accurate. </div></div>
Say what? Bolt actions are NOT ALWAYS more accurate than semi autos. All and always are mighty big words. Some bolt guns are more accurate than some semi autos but your statement seems to be all inclusive which makes it patently false.
Personally I am not a huge fan of either gun mentioned here but if I had to pick from the 2 I would choose the 10/22. It has the most potential.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
I agree with the poster above that bolt guns are not always more accurate than semis. That being said +1 for the mark II. The 10/22 has the most potential of the two and aftermarket firearms parts are synonymous with it. But the best value out of TR box is hands down the savage. I have both a mark II TR and 10/22 Target. The rugged shoots well but the savage is exceptional.
The second reason is pricing. Five years ago a factory 10/22 Target with heavy barrel and target trigger in laminate stock cost about 100 bones more than the stock carbine. Now know not only does it cost twice as much it's TWO hundred more than the stock model. I know I paid ridiculously for my TR (which was clearly built to emulate a 700p in miniature) but for about 100 more than the base Mark II I got a Boyd's tacticool, heavy fluted barrel, and a wannabe tactical bolt handle. IMHO the price point on new Savage rimfires is more realistic. That being said: every person should own a 10/22 at some point. It should also have open sights on it, but that's just my opinion.
I agree with the poster above that bolt guns are not always more accurate than semis. That being said +1 for the mark II. The 10/22 has the most potential of the two and aftermarket firearms parts are synonymous with it. But the best value out of TR box is hands down the savage. I have both a mark II TR and 10/22 Target. The rugged shoots well but the savage is exceptional.
The second reason is pricing. Five years ago a factory 10/22 Target with heavy barrel and target trigger in laminate stock cost about 100 bones more than the stock carbine. Now know not only does it cost twice as much it's TWO hundred more than the stock model. I know I paid ridiculously for my TR (which was clearly built to emulate a 700p in miniature) but for about 100 more than the base Mark II I got a Boyd's tacticool, heavy fluted barrel, and a wannabe tactical bolt handle. IMHO the price point on new Savage rimfires is more realistic. That being said: every person should own a 10/22 at some point. It should also have open sights on it, but that's just my opinion.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RMW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 10/22 with a tactical solutions barrel and Kidd trigger group. The thing shoots awesome. 10/22 rifles can compete with bolt guns, it just takes some money to do it.
Stock out of the box, I would think the Mark 2 TR will out shoot the 10/22. If you replace the barrel, stock, and trigger in the 10/22 with quality parts, you will be able to hang with most bolt 22 lr rifles. </div></div>
Well, that should answer your question....just replace all the gun except the receiver and you will have a good shooter.
Most any gun can have a bunch of aftermarket parts added to it to increase the accuracy. If you're comparing the two listed as is out of the box, no doubt the TR should outshoot the Ruger.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RMW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 10/22 with a tactical solutions barrel and Kidd trigger group. The thing shoots awesome. 10/22 rifles can compete with bolt guns, it just takes some money to do it.
Stock out of the box, I would think the Mark 2 TR will out shoot the 10/22. If you replace the barrel, stock, and trigger in the 10/22 with quality parts, you will be able to hang with most bolt 22 lr rifles. </div></div>
Well, that should answer your question....just replace all the gun except the receiver and you will have a good shooter.
Most any gun can have a bunch of aftermarket parts added to it to increase the accuracy. If you're comparing the two listed as is out of the box, no doubt the TR should outshoot the Ruger.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
Well I have both and my Mark 2 is more accurate but both do a good job at 100yds.
Well I have both and my Mark 2 is more accurate but both do a good job at 100yds.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
Savage Mk II TR 22" Heavy Barrel Fluted - $484 MRSP
Ruger 10/22 VLEH Tactical 16" Heavy Barrel - $555 MSRP
Ruger 10/22 T Target 20" Heavy Barrel - $499 MSRP
or an older model
Ruger 10/22 20" Heavy Barrel Fajen Legacy Synthetic Adj LOP / Comb Stock - $400 on GunBroker.
Price-wise there is little difference. But if you wanted to practice your bolt manipulation, it's the Savage, especially if you've a McMillan stocked center-fire. Outright, you'll probably enjoy the ergonomics of the Savage stock more than the Rugers, except for the Fajen. You'll have more fun rockin' n rollin' with the 10/22 though.
I've an '07 production model 10/22 Target with the Fajen stock, out of box, it's sub-MOA. Unfortunately it's <span style="font-style: italic">so</span> fun to shoot, I rarely bother to practice my fundamentals on it. You'll really appreciate a high-power scope to top it off as opposed to a 3-9x, especially if you'll be shooting static targets.
Savage Mk II TR 22" Heavy Barrel Fluted - $484 MRSP
Ruger 10/22 VLEH Tactical 16" Heavy Barrel - $555 MSRP
Ruger 10/22 T Target 20" Heavy Barrel - $499 MSRP
or an older model
Ruger 10/22 20" Heavy Barrel Fajen Legacy Synthetic Adj LOP / Comb Stock - $400 on GunBroker.
Price-wise there is little difference. But if you wanted to practice your bolt manipulation, it's the Savage, especially if you've a McMillan stocked center-fire. Outright, you'll probably enjoy the ergonomics of the Savage stock more than the Rugers, except for the Fajen. You'll have more fun rockin' n rollin' with the 10/22 though.
I've an '07 production model 10/22 Target with the Fajen stock, out of box, it's sub-MOA. Unfortunately it's <span style="font-style: italic">so</span> fun to shoot, I rarely bother to practice my fundamentals on it. You'll really appreciate a high-power scope to top it off as opposed to a 3-9x, especially if you'll be shooting static targets.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
Ok, so maybe "always" was a bit extreme.
The comment was meant to be taken while comparing similiar quality firearms. I felt that common sense and rational thinking would eliminate comparing unequal qualities such as comparing a bolt action Crickett to a semi-auto Kidd 10/22. Big differnece in quality here, but I'll leave the "always" out of the comments from now on.
When "my" 10/22 was completely original, "my" completely original Savage MkII F out shot it everytime. Keep in mind that these two rifles were fairly close in price. I think that I paid less than $200 for the 10/22 and around $115 for the Savage.
Since then I have replaced on the 10/22 the...
Barrel to a 20" Green Mountain fluted sproter,
VQ bolt release,
VQ hammer,
Christie's bolt buffer,
Polished the bolt,
Polished the guide rod,
Head spaced the bolt,
Squared the face of the bolt,
Pinned the firing pin,
Re-profiled the extractor,
Radiused the bolt,
Swampfox adjustable sear.
It's not necessarily a stock 10/22 anymore.
On the Savage MkII F I have replaced the...
Stock to an old Lakefield stock,
And added a bipod.
It's still a pretty stock Savage.
Yes, my 10/22 now shoots better than my Savage, but it took a lot to get it here. Using this same theory though, if Lilja was to make a barrel for the Crickett it would probably out shoot the Kidd 10/22.
Ok, so maybe "always" was a bit extreme.
The comment was meant to be taken while comparing similiar quality firearms. I felt that common sense and rational thinking would eliminate comparing unequal qualities such as comparing a bolt action Crickett to a semi-auto Kidd 10/22. Big differnece in quality here, but I'll leave the "always" out of the comments from now on.
When "my" 10/22 was completely original, "my" completely original Savage MkII F out shot it everytime. Keep in mind that these two rifles were fairly close in price. I think that I paid less than $200 for the 10/22 and around $115 for the Savage.
Since then I have replaced on the 10/22 the...
Barrel to a 20" Green Mountain fluted sproter,
VQ bolt release,
VQ hammer,
Christie's bolt buffer,
Polished the bolt,
Polished the guide rod,
Head spaced the bolt,
Squared the face of the bolt,
Pinned the firing pin,
Re-profiled the extractor,
Radiused the bolt,
Swampfox adjustable sear.
It's not necessarily a stock 10/22 anymore.
On the Savage MkII F I have replaced the...
Stock to an old Lakefield stock,
And added a bipod.
It's still a pretty stock Savage.
Yes, my 10/22 now shoots better than my Savage, but it took a lot to get it here. Using this same theory though, if Lilja was to make a barrel for the Crickett it would probably out shoot the Kidd 10/22.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 00Buck</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RMW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 10/22 with a tactical solutions barrel and Kidd trigger group. The thing shoots awesome. 10/22 rifles can compete with bolt guns, it just takes some money to do it.
Stock out of the box, I would think the Mark 2 TR will out shoot the 10/22. If you replace the barrel, stock, and trigger in the 10/22 with quality parts, you will be able to hang with most bolt 22 lr rifles. </div></div>
Well, that should answer your question....just replace all the gun except the receiver and you will have a good shooter.
Most any gun can have a bunch of aftermarket parts added to it to increase the accuracy. If you're comparing the two listed as is out of the box, no doubt the TR should outshoot the Ruger.
</div></div>
Your right, you will need to replace much of the 10/22 to increase its accuracy. However, buying a stock 10/22 is less than half the cost of the TR. Selling off the factory stock and barrel will net the OP around $70. That will give the OP around $300 to buy a barrel, stock, trigger (or VQ hammer for less $) before the modified 10/22 is as expensive as the TR.
It really comes down to what you want. The TR is a great rifle out of the box and will out shoot a stock 10/22 as I mentioned in my previous post. But if you want a nice semi, a 10/22 it can be had for a similar price as the TR.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 00Buck</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RMW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 10/22 with a tactical solutions barrel and Kidd trigger group. The thing shoots awesome. 10/22 rifles can compete with bolt guns, it just takes some money to do it.
Stock out of the box, I would think the Mark 2 TR will out shoot the 10/22. If you replace the barrel, stock, and trigger in the 10/22 with quality parts, you will be able to hang with most bolt 22 lr rifles. </div></div>
Well, that should answer your question....just replace all the gun except the receiver and you will have a good shooter.
Most any gun can have a bunch of aftermarket parts added to it to increase the accuracy. If you're comparing the two listed as is out of the box, no doubt the TR should outshoot the Ruger.
</div></div>
Your right, you will need to replace much of the 10/22 to increase its accuracy. However, buying a stock 10/22 is less than half the cost of the TR. Selling off the factory stock and barrel will net the OP around $70. That will give the OP around $300 to buy a barrel, stock, trigger (or VQ hammer for less $) before the modified 10/22 is as expensive as the TR.
It really comes down to what you want. The TR is a great rifle out of the box and will out shoot a stock 10/22 as I mentioned in my previous post. But if you want a nice semi, a 10/22 it can be had for a similar price as the TR.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
10/22 is cool, you can cusomize them like no other rimfire. If you want the accuracy to compete with the savage it will require upgrades. Although I am not real sure out well a 10/22 will cycle match(subsonic) ammo. Ammo is very important. inconsistanties in walmart bulk will not allow for maximum accuracy.
My opinion is a Savage. take all the money that you would spend on upgrading the 10/22 to be good and put it into a high Quality scope. optics like ammo are very important.
or get an anschutz
10/22 is cool, you can cusomize them like no other rimfire. If you want the accuracy to compete with the savage it will require upgrades. Although I am not real sure out well a 10/22 will cycle match(subsonic) ammo. Ammo is very important. inconsistanties in walmart bulk will not allow for maximum accuracy.
My opinion is a Savage. take all the money that you would spend on upgrading the 10/22 to be good and put it into a high Quality scope. optics like ammo are very important.
or get an anschutz
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
It is nice to own and shoot both...but if the choice has to be made, a bolt one is the one. Why? I don't know.
It is nice to own and shoot both...but if the choice has to be made, a bolt one is the one. Why? I don't know.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
A 10/22 cycles match ammo fine, but adding a lighter spring definately helps.
Based on your requirements for a dedicated target gun, I would say go bolt action (and if you ever tell my pretty little 10/22 that I'll call you a liar).
The Savage Mark 2 is a decent option. Have you looked at the CZ at all?
A 10/22 cycles match ammo fine, but adding a lighter spring definately helps.
Based on your requirements for a dedicated target gun, I would say go bolt action (and if you ever tell my pretty little 10/22 that I'll call you a liar).
The Savage Mark 2 is a decent option. Have you looked at the CZ at all?
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
buy the savage, and the money you save on not having to upgrade the 10/22 to shoot as well as the savage, buy some nice glass (zeiss conquest, vortex pst, ss 3-9x or 10x hd, etc).
I looked at 10/22 before I bought savages, since then I have bought 5 savage mk2/93s and am about to purchase another for an upcoming project. BTW, I also bought an anschutz during that time. Have you looked at used Annies? Great buys can be had on gunbroker sometimes ($500-600 range).
buy the savage, and the money you save on not having to upgrade the 10/22 to shoot as well as the savage, buy some nice glass (zeiss conquest, vortex pst, ss 3-9x or 10x hd, etc).
I looked at 10/22 before I bought savages, since then I have bought 5 savage mk2/93s and am about to purchase another for an upcoming project. BTW, I also bought an anschutz during that time. Have you looked at used Annies? Great buys can be had on gunbroker sometimes ($500-600 range).
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
As a point of consideration, the Ruger has plastic parts and the Savage does not. Savage bbl may be pinned, but the Ruger barrel uses a v-block. Out of the box the Savage is inherently more accurate. I own both, my 10/22 is pre-plastic parts and the Sav still outshoots it.
As a point of consideration, the Ruger has plastic parts and the Savage does not. Savage bbl may be pinned, but the Ruger barrel uses a v-block. Out of the box the Savage is inherently more accurate. I own both, my 10/22 is pre-plastic parts and the Sav still outshoots it.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
A gun is only as good as its scope. If your going to do alot of target shooting. tall turrets or exposed tactical knobs REPEATABLE knobs are of utmost importance. glass trumphs magnifcation everytime.
Good luck. Hope you get a rifle to suit your taste and needs. Both are good rifles. you will have to decide which you like better, and how much money you want to spend.
A gun is only as good as its scope. If your going to do alot of target shooting. tall turrets or exposed tactical knobs REPEATABLE knobs are of utmost importance. glass trumphs magnifcation everytime.
Good luck. Hope you get a rifle to suit your taste and needs. Both are good rifles. you will have to decide which you like better, and how much money you want to spend.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
RMW,
What do you think adding those aftermarket parts cost? Could you just buy the cheapy 10/11 since the barrel is being swapped anyway? Or is it cheaper to buy a receiver and build from there?
RMW,
What do you think adding those aftermarket parts cost? Could you just buy the cheapy 10/11 since the barrel is being swapped anyway? Or is it cheaper to buy a receiver and build from there?
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
One thing about the bushnell is it has the low profile turrets on it, they are resettable however. Anyone know an aftermarket turret that would bolt on and give me a little more to hold onto when I turn them?
One thing about the bushnell is it has the low profile turrets on it, they are resettable however. Anyone know an aftermarket turret that would bolt on and give me a little more to hold onto when I turn them?
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
^^ Sounds like you are thinking about building a 10/22... personally, if you want to go that route; I would find an older (metal receiver) 10/22 donor and go from there unless you want to drop the coin for a KIDD receiver/trigger group that is threaded.
If you go the donor route, I suggest a KIDD Barrel which will run about $200. The trigger can be approached a couple ways... either with springs and parts like the Volquartsen (cheaper) or by buying a whole trigger group (like the KIDD). The parts will be under $100 easily from MidwayUSA or another source. The KIDD trigger is $235 for single stage or $290 for two-stage and are regarded as the absolute best.
Stocks are found everywhere and your choices will be crazy to fit your taste, cost between $60 and $400 depending on you.
You may want to browse www.rimfirtecentral.com for a ton more info on the 10/22. My 10/22 is a literal tack-driver at 50 yards and can run with my 40X.
Here are some 50 yard targets from my 10/22 - the top 2 are 10-shots and the rest 5 all shot the same day:
^^ Sounds like you are thinking about building a 10/22... personally, if you want to go that route; I would find an older (metal receiver) 10/22 donor and go from there unless you want to drop the coin for a KIDD receiver/trigger group that is threaded.
If you go the donor route, I suggest a KIDD Barrel which will run about $200. The trigger can be approached a couple ways... either with springs and parts like the Volquartsen (cheaper) or by buying a whole trigger group (like the KIDD). The parts will be under $100 easily from MidwayUSA or another source. The KIDD trigger is $235 for single stage or $290 for two-stage and are regarded as the absolute best.
Stocks are found everywhere and your choices will be crazy to fit your taste, cost between $60 and $400 depending on you.
You may want to browse www.rimfirtecentral.com for a ton more info on the 10/22. My 10/22 is a literal tack-driver at 50 yards and can run with my 40X.
Here are some 50 yard targets from my 10/22 - the top 2 are 10-shots and the rest 5 all shot the same day:
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeremybj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RMW,
What do you think adding those aftermarket parts cost? Could you just buy the cheapy 10/11 since the barrel is being swapped anyway? Or is it cheaper to buy a receiver and build from there? </div></div>
It is generally cheaper to by an entry level 10/22 and use the parts. But be aware that the newer 10/22 rifles have a plastic trigger group. If you are going to replace the whole trigger group with one from Kidd or VQ then it is a non issue. If you are going to replace the internals in your existing trigger group, then you may be better served finding a slightly used 10/22 with the older style aluminum trigger group.
I should warn you, if you ever use someones Kidd trigger, you will be out the $200+ for one.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeremybj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RMW,
What do you think adding those aftermarket parts cost? Could you just buy the cheapy 10/11 since the barrel is being swapped anyway? Or is it cheaper to buy a receiver and build from there? </div></div>
It is generally cheaper to by an entry level 10/22 and use the parts. But be aware that the newer 10/22 rifles have a plastic trigger group. If you are going to replace the whole trigger group with one from Kidd or VQ then it is a non issue. If you are going to replace the internals in your existing trigger group, then you may be better served finding a slightly used 10/22 with the older style aluminum trigger group.
I should warn you, if you ever use someones Kidd trigger, you will be out the $200+ for one.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
A buddy of mine just bought a TR as a project rifle. We shoot a local match and the purpose of the match is to get as many people shooting it as possible. The purpose of the TR was to see and confirm that a regular guy could get into shooting the match without it costing him an arm and a leg.
For lack of a better way of putting it, a rifle must be capable of shooting 3/8" groups or better most of the time to be competitive in "A" and master classes.
The one big caveat in shooting this match that we participate in is that everyone shoots the supplied Wolf Match Target ammo for the match. It sort of evens the playing field.
So....my buddy took this stock, out of the box Savage TR. He worked the trigger down to about 8oz. I think he went too light because the pin falls with the handle sometimes. He also bedded the action into the stock. I'm thinking that this is about the extent of the work that you can do to a TR.
We shot SEVERAL groups with the rifle using ammunition ranging from SK Standard Plus/Wolf MT to Eley Black Box and what we noted is that the rifle is VERY sensitive to the torque applied to the action screws. While we were out at the range playing around with it, our gunsmith happened to be out there and we talked about the rifle, while shooting and tweaking. All of a sudden, bang. 15 inch/lbs on the front screw and 20 inch/lbs on the back and we were hitting 1/2" groups with the SK Standard at 50 yards. We're going to do some more tweaking either this Saturday or next Saturday.
Now, from what I've seen, a Ruger 10/22T won't come close to this. Another buddy of mine has one and I tried everything. Bedding the action and free floating the barrel. Bedding the action and the first 4" of barrel. Completely bedding the barrel and free floating the action. Bedding the action using an "adjustable" contact point on the barrel. It just wouldn't shoot well enough to compete. It would certainly do 1" at 50 yards with ammo that it liked, but that was about it.
My 10/22 has nothing Ruger on it, but the receiver. Most of it is Kidd, and it does shoot better than the above mentioned TR. Of course, in addition to the parts, I have blood, sweat and tears in the rifle trying this and that until I got it to shoot the way it does. So...my 10/22 out shoots the TR and I might be able to get it to shoot even better, at a price. But...you have to consider that with all that I have in the 10/22, I could have bought a used Anschutz that would shoot rings around my 10/22.
Bottomline is that if you're looking for out of the box, bang for the buck, the TR is it. You should be able to get it to shoot with a minimum of effort.
Messing with 10/22s is just a disease and I can't justify it at all. During the match last weekend, the wind was kicking like nobody's business and it just so happened that the lot of ammo that we were issued was crap. Everyone was getting fliers and WTFs. Still, my friend with the TR "project rifle" shot the match with an Anschutz and he still managed a 6950 and I shot a 6475. We are about even on the shooting skill side.
I'll say this. If you want a target rifle and are considering getting a 10/22 to dump money into, save yourself the heartache and just spend the money all at once and get an Anschutz. If you just want a good, solid accurate rifle without all of the money dumping, get the TR.
A buddy of mine just bought a TR as a project rifle. We shoot a local match and the purpose of the match is to get as many people shooting it as possible. The purpose of the TR was to see and confirm that a regular guy could get into shooting the match without it costing him an arm and a leg.
For lack of a better way of putting it, a rifle must be capable of shooting 3/8" groups or better most of the time to be competitive in "A" and master classes.
The one big caveat in shooting this match that we participate in is that everyone shoots the supplied Wolf Match Target ammo for the match. It sort of evens the playing field.
So....my buddy took this stock, out of the box Savage TR. He worked the trigger down to about 8oz. I think he went too light because the pin falls with the handle sometimes. He also bedded the action into the stock. I'm thinking that this is about the extent of the work that you can do to a TR.
We shot SEVERAL groups with the rifle using ammunition ranging from SK Standard Plus/Wolf MT to Eley Black Box and what we noted is that the rifle is VERY sensitive to the torque applied to the action screws. While we were out at the range playing around with it, our gunsmith happened to be out there and we talked about the rifle, while shooting and tweaking. All of a sudden, bang. 15 inch/lbs on the front screw and 20 inch/lbs on the back and we were hitting 1/2" groups with the SK Standard at 50 yards. We're going to do some more tweaking either this Saturday or next Saturday.
Now, from what I've seen, a Ruger 10/22T won't come close to this. Another buddy of mine has one and I tried everything. Bedding the action and free floating the barrel. Bedding the action and the first 4" of barrel. Completely bedding the barrel and free floating the action. Bedding the action using an "adjustable" contact point on the barrel. It just wouldn't shoot well enough to compete. It would certainly do 1" at 50 yards with ammo that it liked, but that was about it.
My 10/22 has nothing Ruger on it, but the receiver. Most of it is Kidd, and it does shoot better than the above mentioned TR. Of course, in addition to the parts, I have blood, sweat and tears in the rifle trying this and that until I got it to shoot the way it does. So...my 10/22 out shoots the TR and I might be able to get it to shoot even better, at a price. But...you have to consider that with all that I have in the 10/22, I could have bought a used Anschutz that would shoot rings around my 10/22.
Bottomline is that if you're looking for out of the box, bang for the buck, the TR is it. You should be able to get it to shoot with a minimum of effort.
Messing with 10/22s is just a disease and I can't justify it at all. During the match last weekend, the wind was kicking like nobody's business and it just so happened that the lot of ammo that we were issued was crap. Everyone was getting fliers and WTFs. Still, my friend with the TR "project rifle" shot the match with an Anschutz and he still managed a 6950 and I shot a 6475. We are about even on the shooting skill side.
I'll say this. If you want a target rifle and are considering getting a 10/22 to dump money into, save yourself the heartache and just spend the money all at once and get an Anschutz. If you just want a good, solid accurate rifle without all of the money dumping, get the TR.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Situation Normal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, my 10/22 now shoots better than my Savage, but it took a lot to get it here. Using this same theory though, if Lilja was to make a barrel for the Crickett it would probably out shoot the Kidd 10/22.</div></div>
My Kidd barreled 10/22 is every bit as accurate as my Lilja barreled Sako Quad. I can pretty consistently shoot MOA 10-shot groups at 100 yards with Wolf Match Extra with it when the wind cooperates. Maybe it's my fault, but I can't do any better than that with the Quad. Some 10/22 100 yard 10 shot groups:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Situation Normal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, my 10/22 now shoots better than my Savage, but it took a lot to get it here. Using this same theory though, if Lilja was to make a barrel for the Crickett it would probably out shoot the Kidd 10/22.</div></div>
My Kidd barreled 10/22 is every bit as accurate as my Lilja barreled Sako Quad. I can pretty consistently shoot MOA 10-shot groups at 100 yards with Wolf Match Extra with it when the wind cooperates. Maybe it's my fault, but I can't do any better than that with the Quad. Some 10/22 100 yard 10 shot groups:
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
Rico, if I spent the cash and went with kidd, what would you guess I would be in it for in total minus the optic? On the other hand, what does a 40x cost?
Rico, if I spent the cash and went with kidd, what would you guess I would be in it for in total minus the optic? On the other hand, what does a 40x cost?
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
Pardon me if I missed this in the original post, but why limit yourself to just either a Savage MKII TR or Ruger 10/22 for a dedicated .22LR target rifle? There are several other good choices in the price range.
Pardon me if I missed this in the original post, but why limit yourself to just either a Savage MKII TR or Ruger 10/22 for a dedicated .22LR target rifle? There are several other good choices in the price range.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
Give me some other ideas of target 22's I might be interested in. I'm open to suggestions.
Give me some other ideas of target 22's I might be interested in. I'm open to suggestions.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
Since you are open to others now, I'd choose a CZ 452 over either of the other two. They are absolutely incredible rifles. I have a Special Military Trainer, and recently sold (to fund the upcoming Kimber 82G) an Ultra Lux. They are insanely accurate, and with $15 the triggers can be tuned down into ounce pull weights and near minimal creep.
Look at the 452 Varmit and American model CZ's too.
Since you are open to others now, I'd choose a CZ 452 over either of the other two. They are absolutely incredible rifles. I have a Special Military Trainer, and recently sold (to fund the upcoming Kimber 82G) an Ultra Lux. They are insanely accurate, and with $15 the triggers can be tuned down into ounce pull weights and near minimal creep.
Look at the 452 Varmit and American model CZ's too.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
Would buying the tactical 10/22 and putting a kidd barrel on it would it improve the accuracy a lot?
Would buying the tactical 10/22 and putting a kidd barrel on it would it improve the accuracy a lot?
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
Any1 got some pictures of their CZ 452? I want to see the fit and finish on the rifle.
Any1 got some pictures of their CZ 452? I want to see the fit and finish on the rifle.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
Well since you asked nicely...
and a thread about my new CZ 452 Varmit.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2597962#Post2597962
Fit and finish on the CZ 452 is outstanding! It is more on par with a centerfire rifle than your typical rimfire.
Well since you asked nicely...
and a thread about my new CZ 452 Varmit.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2597962#Post2597962
Fit and finish on the CZ 452 is outstanding! It is more on par with a centerfire rifle than your typical rimfire.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
Yes. Kidd barrels are great.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeremybj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would buying the tactical 10/22 and putting a kidd barrel on it would it improve the accuracy a lot? </div></div>
Yes. Kidd barrels are great.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeremybj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would buying the tactical 10/22 and putting a kidd barrel on it would it improve the accuracy a lot? </div></div>
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
[img:center]
[/img]
CZ452V, 12" plate shot at 200M
Tacticool stock
MK4 16x
Murphy Precision 25MOA rail
Rifle Basix trigger
It is not bedded nor fussed with at all, couldn't tell you what the action screws are torqued, barrel freee floated, barrel lug screw is in my stock pack. It will almost hang with an Anschutz. You want to see what guns are accurate enough to win tough matches? here is the link:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2390014&page=3
Read the standings for June, these stats don't lie.
The young man who took 1st place junior was shooting a CZ Scout! Placed 7th overall beating 31 other shooters...he is 11yrs old!
[img:center]
CZ452V, 12" plate shot at 200M
Tacticool stock
MK4 16x
Murphy Precision 25MOA rail
Rifle Basix trigger
It is not bedded nor fussed with at all, couldn't tell you what the action screws are torqued, barrel freee floated, barrel lug screw is in my stock pack. It will almost hang with an Anschutz. You want to see what guns are accurate enough to win tough matches? here is the link:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2390014&page=3
Read the standings for June, these stats don't lie.
The young man who took 1st place junior was shooting a CZ Scout! Placed 7th overall beating 31 other shooters...he is 11yrs old!
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeremybj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rico, if I spent the cash and went with kidd, what would you guess I would be in it for in total minus the optic? On the other hand, what does a 40x cost? </div></div>
Hey bud, sorry I missed this. I built mine on an older metal receiver 10/22 that I had.
KIDD 20" threaded match barrel - $175 (+$30 for threading)
KIDD Buffer - $6
KIDD Spring Kit - $13
KIDD Firing Pin - $24
KIDD Extractor - $11
Volquartsen Action Kit (Hammer, Trigger, Sear, Disconnector) - $129
Volquartsen Extended Mag Release - $20
Bolt Release - Free (you can mod this yourself with a dremel)
Boyd's Tacticool Stock (with special edition Rico-flage Krylon paint) - $80 (if you can find one)
A 40XB with run you around a grand, you can search for info about the differences between the older Rem 722 based 40X and the "newer" Rem 700 based 40XB.
My 10/22:
Here is the 40XB, Obviously it doesn't come in the Accuracy International Chassis:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeremybj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rico, if I spent the cash and went with kidd, what would you guess I would be in it for in total minus the optic? On the other hand, what does a 40x cost? </div></div>
Hey bud, sorry I missed this. I built mine on an older metal receiver 10/22 that I had.
KIDD 20" threaded match barrel - $175 (+$30 for threading)
KIDD Buffer - $6
KIDD Spring Kit - $13
KIDD Firing Pin - $24
KIDD Extractor - $11
Volquartsen Action Kit (Hammer, Trigger, Sear, Disconnector) - $129
Volquartsen Extended Mag Release - $20
Bolt Release - Free (you can mod this yourself with a dremel)
Boyd's Tacticool Stock (with special edition Rico-flage Krylon paint) - $80 (if you can find one)
A 40XB with run you around a grand, you can search for info about the differences between the older Rem 722 based 40X and the "newer" Rem 700 based 40XB.
My 10/22:
Here is the 40XB, Obviously it doesn't come in the Accuracy International Chassis:
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
If you are simply looking for "bang for buck" you could also consider a Savage BV. It will shoot as good (some will say better) as the CZ's and should only cost about $300 max.
For the cost of a CZ you could have a BV with optics....something to consider.
Now CZs are nice, and I'm in the process of picking one up myself to go in a Manners stock, but you pay for them.
I see lots of posts where folks compare the CZ to the Savage TR claiming they are the same price. Thats true, but the Savage BV is much cheaper and has the same accuracy as the CZ.
If you are simply looking for "bang for buck" you could also consider a Savage BV. It will shoot as good (some will say better) as the CZ's and should only cost about $300 max.
For the cost of a CZ you could have a BV with optics....something to consider.
Now CZs are nice, and I'm in the process of picking one up myself to go in a Manners stock, but you pay for them.
I see lots of posts where folks compare the CZ to the Savage TR claiming they are the same price. Thats true, but the Savage BV is much cheaper and has the same accuracy as the CZ.
Re: 10/22 Tactical vs Mark 2 TR
You can also buy Savage from SavageGunsmithing and let them do the bedding, trigger and other accurizing jobs if you wish...not that the rifle needs it...
You can also buy Savage from SavageGunsmithing and let them do the bedding, trigger and other accurizing jobs if you wish...not that the rifle needs it...
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