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10.5" Suppressed SBR build, parts suggestions

dzlfarmboy

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 11, 2010
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Eastern Shore MD
www.tnt-power.com
Ok guys looking to build my very first SBR and would like some suggestions from guys that have a lot of experience with different combos as in buffer weights, gas port size, BCG, suppressors

I'm looking to run a 10.5" barrel
gemtech trek t suppressor pretty much all the time
BCG M16 maybe? (Def want a nickel boron coated one )

I'd like some suggestions on what would make this run well

What buffer weight?
Gas port size?
BCG ?

Thanks Brett
 
Gas ports with a lot of the adjustable systems were around .049" and .058". i run a M4-2000 on a 10.5 Noveske SB among others. But the Noveske port is .053", I know MicroMOA is using a plate in their block to make the port .049" or .046" as an optional plate. I think you'll be looking at a port around .070" with most barrels as none are designed as 'dedicated suppressed' barrels, but are rather designed to shoot reliably with and without suppressors. You could always throw an adjustable block with a set screw adjustment mechanism on it as well and have a little more room to tune it if you wanted to.

I tried a couple of different buffer and BCG combos and really thought the softest shooting was the JP Silent capture spring and full auto carrier set up. I also had very good performance with a Young Mfg Lite carrier and slash's XH buffer (8.5 oz.). It'd be a toss up between the two. Same total weight essentially, just less reciproating mass with the lite carrier and a little more energy absobing into the XH buffer. The lighter carrier still seemed to produce a higher cyclic rate though. Try the 5.5-6.5 oz buffers and a FA carrier and see how you like that. Hope that helps man, good luck with the build!
 
All MicroMOA Govnah's come standard with 2 regulator plates.
That said, for 10.3" - 12.5" barrels, the 2 position versions come with a .049"/.070" regulator plate and a .052"/.073" port.

You can see in the link below that I recently worked on a local shooter's Noveske SB upper on a full auto M16 lower this past weekend.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_23/412056_Took_my_M16_to_the_range____NOVESKE_UPPER_D OES_NOT_WORK___FACTORY_DEFECT___UPDATE_pg2.html

He ordered the upper after Sandy Hook and got it I guess a month or so back.

It had a .059" port for suppressed and a .120" port for unsuppressed (obviously relying on the barrel's gas port - which was .082").

I have done a lot of testing on various 10.5" uppers as you can read in my article on my site here: Why so much variations in port sizes? | MicroMOA

As mentioned in my link above:
All 3 of those uppers have 10.5″ barrels in them. We tested them with the same ammo (LC M855), BCG and lower (lower had H2 buffer installed, standard power (white) Sprinco spring. Uppers were dry and not lubed for the testing since varying amounts of lube can skew the test results.

All 3 ended up locking the bolt back on an empty mag consistently at 3 different port sizes:
The top one was .076″
The middle one was .063″
The bottom one was .070″

3-10.5-barrels-1024x647.jpg


The top barrel was a junk barrel and my pre-determined port sizes for my 2 position would be too small for that barrel. Fortunately, most people that buy my block don't buy junk and I have yet to have a customer tell me that the port sizes I have selected do not work.
Considering that most people don't read instructions - that INCLUDES ME. We always ship Govnah's out with the plates with the larger ports installed so that it has a higher possibility of working since we don't always know:
1. the port size of the customer's barrel
2. buffer used
3. spring used
4. in addition could be an A5 or Rifle length stock which adds more variables to 2 and 3
5. ammo used
6. type of carrier used.
As mentioned on my site, all testing was done using LC M855 with a full auto lower and a milspec configuration of an H2 buffer and standard power spring.

Using that configuration, you can see in the video below taken at high speed (480FPS) showing the difference between regulated and unregulated. Both are shot at the same 480 FPS and the first shot is at the same time.
Both videos are the exact same gun, fired in full auto 10 rounds, M855, H2 buffers in BOTH. Only difference is the one in the lower right is regulated.
There was so much gas coming out of the unregulated that it fouled up the glass in front of the camera. If you look closely, you can also see more recoil on the unregulated. I could feel the buffer bottoming out.
VS the regulated, you can barely make out any gas coming out of the ejection port and 3 rounds are fired after the unregulated has finished its 10 rounds since it is about 200 RPM slower when regulated vs unregulated.



Below are some links to a two part article on the MicroMOA Govnah that covers the background and Govnah solution and testing quite well - all with RoF informatioin.
Part1
MicroMOA?s ?Govnah? Adjustable Gas Block (Pt 1 of 2) - RECOIL
Part 2
MicroMOA?s ?Govnah? Adjustable Gas Block (Pt 2 of 2) - RECOIL

You can see that the Govnah is based on actual port sizes from NO port to whatever you want to drill. In the event that your barrel is overgassed and you don't want to run suppressed, I personally would have 1 port match your barrel's gas port which would be your adverse position (for use when dirty or using weak ammo) and you would also use that to install/align the block for installation then work your way up to a port size that locks your bolt back on the other port for optimal unsuppressed.
Then use the 3rd position for suppressed use.
Or use a two position if you just want suppressed and max gas.
Merrill-Govnah-regulator-plates-top-left-clockwise-2-position-custom-and-3-position-custom-2-540x412.jpg


In regards to having an adverse position - which is really just the port size in the barrel, some may question why bother with adverse.
We have a State SWAT team that loves it for the sole fact that they can now run their Simunitions through the same rifle using the Govnah by having it set to the 'adverse' setting. No buffer swapping. No remembering how many revolutions to turn a set screw. Just push the regulator plate and done.

So from LE/Military perspective, they typically don't run cheap ammo and the ammo is a known variable. They are not going to be using Simunitions or some weaker powered frangible training ammo in the field. They will be running full powered ammo in the field and in the event they need more gas, it will be a simple matter of moving the regulator plate with no tools. Why not run full gas all the time? Well, when talking about short barrels it is a big difference the article mentioned above in Recoil had a 11.5" barrel that ran all day with brass at .063 but came from the factory at .073. .063 is what you'd normally see in a 16" carbine. It is noticeably smoother running at .063 and along with that is less fouling to the action when running optimal gas. But as long as you have a bullet going down a bore you will get fouling (this includes a piston system). So running optimal gas extends the amount of rounds you can put down range before it is time to clean it and if you don't have time then you can crank it up to the adverse setting to get you through it.

From a recreational shooter perspective, you now have the ability to shoot the cheaper surplus steel cased stuff - OPTIMALLY and shoot the SHTF stuff OPTIMALLY as well. When I say optimal, I'm not talking about just the reduced recoil but again the reduction of fouling into the action. Something no buffer can reduce - only controlling the gas will do that. H2 buffer is all that is required to stop bolt bounce in full auto and it has been used in the M4 for a long time and I have yet to hear about one failing. Going heavier is more reciprocating mass.

Plenty more video and info on my site: http://micromoa.com
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Thanks!
 
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I only have experience with Noveske Switch Block.

It works perfect.

I can set it to the suppressed setting without a can and have malfunctions, add a can and it works perfect. The point to this test, the gas ports are sized and tuned correct.
 
According to the Rainier site, the Evolution has a 1.56" ID so that is plenty of room for the 2 or 3 position Govnah.

Yes, did test the ones pictured above suppressed but the results posted were for un-suppressed. The point of the testing above was to prove that when talking UN-suppressed, X length barrel doesn't mean X size port should be used. For suppressed, it is easier to guess the appropriate port sizes as the suppressor provides more dwell time and backpressure.
 
I've had great success cutting down 14.5" Colt and DD M4 barrels. They start as .58 ports with the 14.5"-16" guns but you can cut then down to desired length to achieve what you want.

I chose to cut mine to 11.2" and ran a LMT enhanced carrier with standard bolt. Either way you go I highly suggest a LMT enhanced carrier.

My gun would run with suppressor on/off with 5.56 pressure ammo 100% of time. It would also run .223 pressure stuff 100% suppressed but only about 50% of the time unsuppressed for the 223 pressure stuff. Its a sweet gun though, runs so clean and basically no gas in the face at all.