100 yard zero @ 25 yards?

[Graham]

100 yard zero @ 25 yards?

Rough zero means it aint as good as it should be, and it always should be as good as it can be....

I'll buy that....In the sense that it's not a zero.

And the referenced article was about establishing a PBZ on an AR with iron sights.

 

[LtDan]

Irons, scope, it works. Bore to whatever height sight you are using, it works. Towards the end of the article:
"Years ago when developing our system, I took a very accurate, custom, match-grade AR-15 built by Ned Christiansen featuring a Leupold 3.5x10 power scope and set out targets in 25-yard increments out to 100 yards. The bullets did indeed impact as mathematically predicted.

The above information is based not only on our testing and use, but also on the observation of many hundreds of officers applying the 100-yard zero during training, in competition and reviews of actual street incidents. Ultimately, what we want is a standard for zero that allows officers to make a precision shot under extreme stress with confidence they will hit what they aim at. For us, this has worked."

Why so damn argumentative? I didn't patent the method, but its handy.

 

[Graham]

100 yard zero @ 25 yards?

No argument. Just discussion:

The fact that a rifle trajectory prints as 'mathematically predicted' at less than the zero range is not a discovery.

It's not a method for a 'precision shot' and it isn't a 'standard zero' either, except in the sense that it's a description of the minimum that some law enforcement people do to sight-in their rifles.

 

[LtDan]

Never was a discussion that it is a method for a precision shot, or standard zero. Just a way to get a rough zero at 100 yards using 25 yards. No more, no less. All the verbiage and deflection won't change that.

I do know better than 4 MOA at 25 yards doesn't take 64 "adjustments" on a quarter MOA turret. All the edits to your posts cant change that statement you made. But, you are correct, I'm one of those "law enforcement people".

Hence the term "Graham it up your ass", you are consistent. Good day.

 

[Graham]

100 yard zero @ 25 yards?

Thank you again for name-calling and yet again bringing up an error that is no longer relevant to the discussion. I now understand your agenda. It appears that, after accusing me of not letting my own error go, it is you who can't let it go. I have met some LE officers who project on to other people like that. It's not healthy.

But it is an occupational qualification for a law enforcement officer to be able to recognize evidence. As to there never having been a discussion about 'standard zero' or using the zero you described for 'precision shooting', it was in your quote from the article that you posted:

"...Ultimately, what we want is a standard for zero that allows officers to make a precision shot under extreme stress with confidence they will hit what they aim"...

It's also important for law enforcement officers not to manufacture evidence or make false accusations. I never edited my mistake to make it appear as if I never made one, which is what you accused me of. That's playing dirty, and practices like that should not carry a badge.

And, BTW, there's no such thing as a 'rough zero'.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Never was a discussion that it is a method for a precision shot, or standard zero.

All bsz's came from the 25yd line, long ago. Even those weapons that required a 300 yd zero for stadium hair tracking for SB. It was found very quickly a 25 yd zero held to 900 if you zeroed it correctly w/one rd per dot and adjusted until it was correct. Some folks found very quickly while your trying to zero at long range, someone else is checking his/her zero on you. A 1/16 of an inch is easy to see on a 25yd target if your only shooting one rd at each dot, which equates to what 4/16 in 100yd. How many can hold 1/4 moa to 900 first shot every time?

 

[Graham]

100 yard zero @ 25 yards?

Before we got sidetracked with all the talk about .223 ARs and iron sights, the OP was asking about a short range zero for a .308.

A battle sight zero is a fixed sight setting placed on a rifle for combat. It is a method for giving the highest probability of hitting large targets with minimum adjustment to the aiming point. Contrary to what is said in the article posted by Lt.Dan, it does not adapt well to CQB.

Moreover, in law enforcement one does not engage a target with only a probability of hitting it. We cannot afford, tactically and legally, to do that and miss.

A PBZ has little use on a law enforcement rifle. But, if you want to apply one on a .308, consider zeroing for forty yards. Then print on paper at other distances, read the reticle and log the hold overs and hold unders as true statements with that zero.

The largest offset will be at 10 yards, with highest impact at 130 and 1 3/4" low at 240. That puts you within a 6" circle from PBR to 240.

But the ease of its use is that you dial your elevation and use the rifle as a precision rifle.

That makes it a method, not simply a basic amount of knowledge necessary to get the rifle to hit a piece of paper.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Rough zero means it aint as good as it should be, and it always should be as good as it can be, and it can always be better than it was, and it was better than it is, and it is better than it could be, and it could be better than me, but it aint.

LOL

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Moreover, in law enforcement one does not engage a target with only a probability of hitting it. We cannot afford, tactically and legally, to do that and miss.

Don't believe the OP's question had stated anything about LE, I recall hunting. That said, some state LE as well as some fed agency's have had issue with getting on target, correctly.

 

[Graham]

Agreed.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Related to this discussion, when the line of bore is greater than horizontal the bullet path will intersect line of sight twice. This is how it is possible to sight in an M4, shooting M855, at 25 meters to produce a 300 meter zero. For an M16A2,3,or 4 sighting in at 32 meters will produce a 3meter zero. This zero is often called a battle sight zero. It is a zero which must be established when using the bullet drop compensating carry handle sight for the compensator to function properly for hits on KD targets which are beyond the effective range of the BSZ. Most shooters will be able to hit an E target using the battle sight zero all the way out to 400 meters when allowing for the full 20 inches of target below a center of mass hold. I bring this to the attention of any interested here as it relates to the reasoning behind the action of sighting in at a particular distance to zero at another. The practicality of such action is apparent when a shooter does not have a spotting scope, or desired zeroing distance. Of course, I think as Graham may have alluded, the idea behind a battle sight zero, no matter what the points of intersection, is to be able to get a versatile trajectory. That's to say, to have a zero at a distance which will still allow for hits at distances in front of and behind the zero distance.

 

[CK_32]

Moreover, in law enforcement one does not engage a target with only a probability of hitting it. We cannot afford, tactically and legally, to do that and miss.

Isn't the LEO hit percentage like 43% through out the nation? lol

I'm not trying to be a di** but scrolling down and reading that almost made me spit my drink out.

 

[Graham]

100 yard zero @ 25 yards?

Isn't the LEO hit percentage like 43% through out the nation?

You mean your department can actually hit some of the things they aim at?!?

 

[svxwilson]

Don't believe the OP's question had stated anything about LE, I recall hunting. That said, some state LE as well as some fed agency's have had issue with getting on target, correctly.

There was a officer in my town who dumped his glock mag and shot 10+ shots at one perp at rougly 20-25 yards who happened to have a 22lr revolver in his hand. Perp had one bullet wound, turned out to be his own 22 bullet. It was in a residential part of town less than 300 yards from the sheriffs office, county and federal courthouses. None of the officers bullets were recovered. Makes me wonder the requirements of LE accuracy with their firearms. Kinda scary. It was very close to my home.