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100 Years ago today

Those interested in History and the history of The Great War in particular might enjoy, Blueprint for Armageddon parts I, II & III.
Dan Carlin - Podcasts, Merchandise, Blog, and Community Website
These podcasts are almost 12-hours of WWI stuff and are fascinating.

Let me second Marty's suggestion to visit the WWI museum in Kansas City. It's fantastic.

My grandfather was in it from the start ( late 1914) as a German speaking American volunteer to the Red Cross. He got gassed pretty badly and kept me enthralled as a child with stories.
My wife's grandfather was in it as a teenaged infantry squaddy in the Black Watch. His stories were equally interesting. He saw the Red Barron dog fight over his trench.

I emphasize "from the start" because American involvement was actually pretty short when compared to the duration of that shootin' match.
 
I thought I would share these on this thread

My great great Uncle Phillip Graham - Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders - one of three brothers who answered the call. He came home. The man sitting down was wounded in combat and Phillips brother Robert ran back to get him and was shot in the stomach, he saved Bill but he died in a field hospital in Rouen a few days later



Here is Robert in Edinburgh to recover from frostbite he got in France, he returned to the front line two weeks later and was killed in action dragging his friend back to their trench



Headstone at St Sever Cemetary, Rouen.



Gunner Thomas Graham. Royal Field Artillery



Headstone at Caix British Cemetery near Amiens, France - Was killed when an artillery shell exploded during a reload of their gun



Gunner Thomas Graham Royal Field Artillery 'A' Battery 63rd Brigade, KIA 17/08/1918 at the Somme Aged 22 Buried at Caix British Cemetary, France

Private Robert Graham 10th Battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, KIA 20/07/1916 Aged 24 Buried at St. Sever Cemetary Rouen, France

 
We missed the anniversary of the 'start' of the first Battle of the Marne... but since it went on a while... 100 years ago, this incredibly bloody opening battle was in full swing. By its end, the war was largely in stalemate. Paris was safe (but not from huge siege ad guns) and 515,000 soldiers were dead. In the overall tally of the war, this was, sadly, a drop in the bucket.

And the vaunted Schlieffen Plan lay in ruins... defeated by internal combustion engines and "modern" communications, not to mention Maxim guns.

It would only get worse as the armies headed into winter!

Sirhr

Sirhr
 
Just finished "The Guns of August".


I'm so old, I knew 3 WWI vets.

Andrew Stuart, a scot, had been gassed and sent home to Edinburgh to convalesce, when he was in hospital, the Germans raided the town with….. zeppelins.

John Hallam, a U.S. vet, had hairless legs, he claimed it was from wearing puttees for so long.

Thomas Heller, a U.S. vet, called it hell on earth, didn't talk too much about it. Occasionally he would say something would remind him of it. The smell of flesh rotting, thunder in the distance.

My wife is currently on her first ever trip to the Somme with her colleagues from Brize Norton. It wil be interesting to see how she finds the experience.

I had two WW1 vets in the family as I grew up:

My maternal grandfather, William Leonard Ford - fought on the Western Front, was also gassed and taken prisoner where, due to malnutrition, he contracted beri beri. The long-term effects of gas eventually contributed to his death from emphicema in 1968.

My paternal great uncle, Cyril Lyndon-Smith, lucky to survive the war on the wetsern Front as a commissioned infantry officer.

In this 100th year since the outbreak of "The Great War" I also remember my maternal great uncle, Herbert Henry Birch who died aged 19 in the forgotten war in East Africa and is buried in the Commonwealth Cemetry in Dar-es-Salaam.



"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
And at the going down of the Sun and in the morning
We will remember them"
 
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Currently reading "A Rifleman Went to War" and figured Id revive this old thread.

Herbert Mcbride is a man we all can look up to; a man with a lot of "salt" as theyd say where Im from. One could almost say he was partially a remnant/heir of the ways of the Old West. The way he writes, his marksmanship talent, and his tales of stone-faced courage in the face of incoming machine gun and arty fire embodies what I would expect out of the likes of Wyatt Earp, Jesse James, Billy the Kid, or Butch Cassidy. He even talks of some of the later Western legends such as Bat Masterson, and mentions that the simple fact they survived the encounters that they did tells one all you need to know about how skilled those men were, using his words "in those days where it was survival of the fittest".. He goes on to say that most men growing up where he grew up were skilled marksman and hunters, and obviously so. Im currently at the part where hes participating in the `Battle of Loos`. I really like that he derides Hollywood for its hugely over-dramatic emotional portrayals and all the facial contortion stuff. "Men just dont do that, in times of peace or war." he says. I get the feeling that if the word p*ssy was used back then the way it is now, Mcbride would have made extensive use of it in calling out actors that are shown crying or whatever when being shot at. He mentions when he first got to the front, he watched a brother drag his twin from a trench after being ripped from shoulder to legs with arty and bleeding tremendously, all the brother said was 'Bobs been hit real bad, need to get em out'.

Got to recommend this book to everyone on here. Not only does he push becoming a better rifleman, but also being a man. The whole book just has the feel of - our boys, trudging on through mud and fire, playing the cards theyve been dealt. He writes as if speaking to you directly. I wish I knew the man, and am glad he was one of ours.
 
Currently reading "A Rifleman Went to War" and figured Id revive this old thread.

Herbert Mcbride is a man we all can look up to; a man with a lot of "salt" as theyd say where Im from. One could almost say he was partially a remnant/heir of the ways of the Old West. The way he writes, his marksmanship talent, and his tales of stone-faced courage in the face of incoming machine gun and arty fire embodies what I would expect out of the likes of Wyatt Earp, Jesse James, Billy the Kid, or Butch Cassidy. He even talks of some of the later Western legends such as Bat Masterson, and mentions that the simple fact they survived the encounters that they did tells one all you need to know about how skilled those men were, using his words "in those days where it was survival of the fittest".. He goes on to say that most men growing up where he grew up were skilled marksman and hunters, and obviously so. Im currently at the part where hes participating in the `Battle of Loos`. I really like that he derides Hollywood for its hugely over-dramatic emotional portrayals and all the facial contortion stuff. "Men just dont do that, in times of peace or war." he says. I get the feeling that if the word p*ssy was used back then the way it is now, Mcbride would have made extensive use of it in calling out actors that are shown crying or whatever when being shot at. He mentions when he first got to the front, he watched a brother drag his twin from a trench after being ripped from shoulder to legs with arty and bleeding tremendously, all the brother said was 'Bobs been hit real bad, need to get em out'.

Got to recommend this book to everyone on here. Not only does he push becoming a better rifleman, but also being a man. The whole book just has the feel of - our boys, trudging on through mud and fire, playing the cards theyve been dealt. He writes as if speaking to you directly. I wish I knew the man, and am glad he was one of ours.

If you want a similar perspective from the side of the enemy read Erst Junger "Storm of Steel". That guy seemed to excel in the maelstrom of war.
 
I thought this thread could use a little renewing. It suffered through the "Scout" years and went by the wayside. So, here it is. Great history lessons in WWI.
 
So historians love to shit talk the "bumbling conscript armies" of WW1 and how the stagnant trench war tactics led to huge casualties for neglible gains. Yet Ive never heard em offer better ideas of how it shoulda been fought? Somehow most who trash the troops of the Great War dont IMO usually appear the type to have the ingredients to lead a raiding party into enemy lines at 0-dark-30.

Realistically, what could anyone have done differently that wast done that wouldnt a got em shredded to pieces?
 
So historians love to shit talk the "bumbling conscript armies" of WW1 and how the stagnant trench war tactics led to huge casualties for neglible gains. Yet Ive never heard em offer better ideas of how it shoulda been fought? Somehow most who trash the troops of the Great War dont IMO usually appear the type to have the ingredients to lead a raiding party into enemy lines at 0-dark-30.

Realistically, what could anyone have done differently that wast done that wouldnt a got em shredded to pieces?

"Lions lead by donkeys"

No one doubts the bravery of the trench soldier.

The bull headed tactics of the command though are certainly open for criticism.
 
So historians love to shit talk the "bumbling conscript armies" of WW1 and how the stagnant trench war tactics led to huge casualties for neglible gains. Yet Ive never heard em offer better ideas of how it shoulda been fought? Somehow most who trash the troops of the Great War dont IMO usually appear the type to have the ingredients to lead a raiding party into enemy lines at 0-dark-30.

Realistically, what could anyone have done differently that wast done that wouldnt a got em shredded to pieces?

I could make a list that would make your head spin....

However, the long and the short of it:

1.Treat your soldiers as human beings. All through this post and others, sirhr has shown where the upper command simply treated soldiers like cannon fodder. They were in most cases, not held in any higher esteem than horses. Which is really sad to learn that back then horses weren't held in any kind of high esteem at all. The class system was at it's height during WWI. No where is this more evident than in Gallipoli, when the command was told by high command, that the campaign wasn't going to continue, the POS British commander sat there and sipped tea. Along with making a comment about the Australians he just threw into the meat grinder.

2. Communication: Piss poor communication both physically and verbally. A lot of things weren't said to the front because there was no communication. In the case of not being able to reach the front lines, runners were not sent. What was communicated was not always clear. Some jackass in the rear might be telling someone on the front lines that he needed to move his troops forward 200 yds. Putting him smack dab in the middle of a hill. With no way up/down or back. Stupid shit like that all the time. Today, commanders right down to the squad level have the ability to take the best terrain they can. "Pushback" is acceptable today when the individual is thinking about accomplishing the mission. Along with retaining his resources. Expectations are clear when the mission begins.

3.Respect for your troops as troops. This kind of thinking didn't change until WWII. And, to a degree it still didn't change a whole lot. Two of the biggest WWII American involved "meat grinder" mentality battles were the battles of Hurtgen Forest, and Okinawa. This mentality pervaded again in Korea with "pork chop/hamburger hills" where we would take the hill, or village, and then leave it. And, again in Vietnam. People are capable. But, commanders need to give them the room to do their job. Scwarzkopf was one general who really did push back against the rear when they told him to do something that was bullshit. But, he also knew what they could do, and he expected that out of them.

4. Thinking outside the lines to plan for success. When faced with a "meat grinder" type battle for an area, including all resources is a must. Too often in the past, generals have ignored or downplayed critical intelligence and critical capabilities of units they have. Trying to win by sheer numbers is a completely flawed tactic. Using tactics of what is available to you will win nine out of ten battles. Speed is of the essence. Once you have the advantage, press it. Don't let it go, as we so often do.

5. Don't let fucking Congress get involved militarily. They either say we go to war or not. And, they fund it, or get us out! This shit of sitting down with the prez, and deciding who/what we attack that day uselessly spent a lot of money and got a lot of people needlessly killed. Go with a plan and don't let those Washington pieces of shit decide what is and isn't.
 
I can most certainly respect that and sympathize with the fodder a lot more than the royalty sending em to die. Im sure theres many instances we can say this attack shouldnt a been pressed for so long or even at all, and we shoulda held on to this or that with more effort. But is there any DRASTIC tactical changes that one couldve made at high or fuck even mid level command that woulda saved lives or atleast allowed us to charge a higher price for the lives given?

For instance, say fuck the day time completely. Defense only when the suns up. From moon up to sunrise is only time we hit em EN MASSE. Somme level night raid, grenades/handguns/knives/clubs only. It aint working sacrificing em to the Maxim gods, why dont we launch a 100,000+ offense in the middle of the dark and scalp em in their sleep? No arty, no flares. Sure the enemy would adapt accordingly but then we come up with something equally unexpected. Was the reason something drastically different wasnt tried, because it wouldnt work? What else could we even have tried? Secret flanking/pincer force while we feign massive huge retreat?

sirhr, pmclaine, sand.. I know certainly yall got more of a strategic bone in your collective bodies than I do.. supply side needs changing hell ya. Our troops are humans hell ya. But say you got 50,000+ men bogged down in a trench, with the enemy 600yd give or take in front of you bogged down in their trench looking as intimidating as ever and youre losing men(boys?) by the day. Anything that can be done besides the routine and hunker down? The technology certainly seemed to promote the prevailing conditions.. but maybe Im missing something. Im sure tanks couldve been given a higher priority earlier, planes as well.

Reminds me of my favorite "Storm of Steel" - "..nothing is more unnerving than unexpected running footsteps approaching your position in the darkness.."
 
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Best thing that they could have done in WW1... is not fought it.

It was politicians that caused that slaughter. As usual.

As for tactics, strategies, etc.... the best way to fight a war is to not fight it. But since old men have few compulsions about sending young men to die... it's a booming business.

Sirhr
 
Forgetful,

There were times in history where two armies collided and the only resolution was going to create casualties. There are also times when it looked like two armies would collide yet the day was won by one army over the other with superior tactics. Like Rommel, driving a spearhead into an undefendable point.. Or, like Eisenhower, who gave enough signs that we would invade at Calais, that we were able to deceive the Germans and invade at Normandy.

These are large scale tactics. Tactics come in all sizes, from squad up to division. Some work, while others range from not working well (but working) all the way to complete failure. I use D-Day as a tactic as it was only one step in the means to a bigger strategy. In itself it is often referred to as a strategy. But, the sleight of hand type operation is often called a tactic. The end result is the strategy.

I suggest going back and re-reading this thread and look at the battles won or lost and decide if mobility or enhancing you defense would have been the better strategy.(end result you wanted).

AND BTW, we owe KraigWY a thank you for starting this thread years ago. It's been one of the best discussions here on snipershide.
 
Chief of Ordnance Brigadier General James Wolfe Ripley was principally responsible for the Union not employing repeating rifles...the old miser also was against purchasing additional stands of rifle muskets, feeling that existing stands of smooth bore muskets could be successfully rifled.

Ripley was concerned about logistics and simplifying the supply chain. Hence his reluctance to adopt to the newer weaponry of the era. Technology prevailed and the Civil War is easily the most difficult period of American military small arms history.

Another part of the problem was having technology and having the understanding to use it. The soldiers figured it out themselves and on the stop, began entrenching immediately. Contrast this to 1861 when hiding behind a tree or digging a rifle pit to shoot from was considered cowardly or unmanly. In one of the worse cases of misconception (or misinterpretation of orders), a company equipped with target rifles was ordered to charge the enemy! Never mind their heavy barrel guns were not adapted for bayonets.

In all fairness though, many officers of the Civil War were civilians and still learning their trade of being soldiers. Even the West Point grads though didn't have a good understanding of modern weaponry. Witness Lee's futile attacks at Malvern Hill or the third day at Gettysburg or Grant's second attack at Vicksburg and then at Cold Harbor.
 
Gary C/A, If Ripley was about truly simplifying the supply chain, he would not have made the comment to Pres. Lincoln, that the men would just waste bullets. It's a well known fact that was against repeaters as it would be a higher cost. He was not so concerned with the welfare of the men.
 
The Ordnance Board has a long and glorious history of being completely and totally retarded.... though they 'did' end up with some masterpieces like the Garand, the 03 and the BAR. Ultimately, McNamara dissolved the armory system because they (and the Ordnance Board) were so entrenched and 'two wars ago' in their thinking... that the GI's were lucky to get peashooters.

McNamara was repellant in many ways.... and fascinating. But he made a good call on eliminating the armory system.

Most of the repeaters in the Civil War, at least early, were paid for by wealthy individuals who formed regiments. In the war, if you could raise, feed, clothe and arm your own regiment... hey... you got to lead it. There were some idiotic Colonels and Brigadiers as a result. But a few gems. No Gatling Guns would have been fielded had it not been for a few officers who purchased them for their regiments. One was Benjamin "Spoons" Butler at Petersburg. There is a good chance he got the money to buy them by looting most of the silver out of New Orleans early in the war! But that is just heresay. He was also known as "Beast Butler."

But Berdan's riflemen were equipped with Sharps largely at his expense... and several other units had 'advanced' rifles purchased by their commanders.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Ripley was also concerned about excessive usage of bullets. As mentioned earlier, it was a factor why the repeaters were discarded about 1870 and why Custer's men had trapdoor single shots. They had Spencers before that. Even as late as the 1903 Springfield we had a magazine cut off to conserve ammunition.
 
They had Spencers before that. Even as late as the 1903 Springfield we had a magazine cut off to conserve ammunition.

That was fairly common up until WWI irrc the early SMLES had that feature as well.
 
Even as late as the 1903 Springfield we had a magazine cut off to conserve ammunition.

I dont know about conserving ammunition, but I use the heck out of the magazine cut off on my Springfields. Its perfect for dry firing for rapid fire. I even use it in slow fire where single loading is required. I always use the cut off on my M1903A4. Single loading is required in Vintage Sniper Matches.

I wish my M1917 had one. I have to use a nickle to hold the follower down to work the bolt with out it locking back.
 
I dont know about conserving ammunition, but I use the heck out of the magazine cut off on my Springfields. Its perfect for dry firing for rapid fire. I even use it in slow fire where single loading is required. I always use the cut off on my M1903A4. Single loading is required in Vintage Sniper Matches.

I wish my M1917 had one. I have to use a nickle to hold the follower down to work the bolt with out it locking back.

That makes me wonder if a reason the cutoff was left in place was that it simplified the various forms of training on the rifle? No question, somebody was still tuned into the saving ammo though.
 
Since we were in Scout for two years we missed a significant number of significant events that happened 100 years previous to those dates.
In that vein, here is an interesting one:
U-35 completes most successful submarine cruise in history 101 years ago today.
 
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I thought I'd update this to the front page and give us the news daily as it happened....100 years ago today:

http://today-in-wwi.tumblr.com/

At times I wish they would publish the authors name on some of these so as to flog them to death after reading their tripe. It amazes me to hear someone justify previous existence to this:

The Myth of the Horrible Trenches

Pictured - German dead in a sunken road. Trench warfare is by its very nature a morbid affair, but the horrors of the First World War, and in particular the Western Front, have been widely over-exaggerated.


In the late 1920s a spate of World War One memoirs and novels was unleashed on the reading public. Siegfried Sassoon’s Memories of a Fox-Hunting Man, R.C. Sherriff’s play Journey’s End, Richard Alderton’s Death of a Hero, Erich Maria Remarque’s All Quiet on the Western Front, Robert Grave’s Goodbye to All That, Ernest Hemingway’s A Farewell to Arms. Between contrasts of style and personal response, the content and theme of most of these trench novels is largely the same - idealism turned to disillusion, the miseries of trench living, the destructive weight of modern firepower, the obscenity of death on a modern battlefield.

These works share another characteristic feature, in that their authors tended to be men who came from sheltered, upper-class backgrounds. In no way were the war authors and poets representative of the fighting man of World War One. Indeed, most of them would have been as miserable in the slums of Manchester as they were on the battlefields of France. The squalor they presented of trenches and dug-outs shocked middle class British readers, all while one-third of the British population lived in horrid slums! The description’s of these are little better than those of the trenches:
‘Two rooms. In the lower room the brick floor is in holes. Fireplace without grate in bottom. Wooden floor of upper room has large holes admitting numbers of mice. Roof very defective, the rain falling through on to the bed in wet weather.’



The social investigator R.H. Sherard’s description of his revulsion to Manchester would hardly be out of place in Sassoon’s chilling trench tale:
‘I was entering once again the veritable gloom and disaster of the thing called Armageddon… a dreadful place, a place of horror and desolation which no imagination could have invented. Also it was a place where a man of strong spirit might know himself utterly powerless’.
Had Robert Graves or Siegfried Sassoon spent four years working in a textile factory, undoubtedly their memoirs would have been little different. The European laborer did not lack for poison gas either:
‘The chemical men work amid foul odours and in an intense heat - the temperature being as often as high as 120 degrees. They sweat and toil in an atmosphere charged with biting acids, or deadly gases, or dense with particles of lime.‘
The average Tommy in the trenches was quite possibly better off than he had been at home, even if his public schoolboy subaltern was wrapped in novel misery. Indeed, most footsoldiers greeted war with a deal of cheerful cynicism. An excellent parallel is the experience of Robert Graves, the author of I Claudius, and thenan officer in the Royal Welch Fusiliers, and Frank Richards, a long-service private in the same regiment. In contrast to Graves’ gloomy narrative, Richard’s memoirs brim with the typical hardiness of a regular soldier. Even Graves was forced to marvel at the ease with which his subordinates accepted their lot, as when some of them confronted the corpse of a friend.
‘His comrades joke as they push out of the way to get by. ‘Out of the light, you old bastard! Do you own this bloody trench?’ Or else they shake hands with him familiarly. ‘Put it there, Billy Boy.’ Of course they’re miners and accustomed to death.’
Not only is the myth of the Great War’s unique horribleness untrue, so is the myth of the ‘Lost Generation’ killed on its battlefields. Britain lost 702,410 men killed in the war. 512,564 of them died on the Western Front, the theatre that looms largest in the public mind. Yet this is only 50,000 more than Italy lost during World War One, and yet there was no feeling that Italy was a nation drained of its vitality after the end of the conflict; still less France, who lost 1,327,000 dead, or Germany, who lost more still.

Unlike France, Britain suffered no catastrophic battles on its own soil, and unlike Germany it suffered no harsh economic failure afterwards. Yet there existed into the 1930s - and to this very day - that World War One had fundamentally crippled the British Empire. A fitting contrast to this opinion is America after the end of its civil war in 1865. In proportion to population, America lost more men in its civil war than Britain did in the Great War, yet post-war American history was not characterized by stagnation. Nor was post-1945 Britain, even though Bomber Command suffered as heavy losses as the British officer corps did between 1914 and 1918.


The writers and poets who emphasized the misery of the trenches failed to understand the underlying causes of the war, many of which undermined their pacifist ideals. They simplified a complex conflict and its war aims into a brutal and meaningless bloodbath characterized by idiot generals launching pointless offensives. It made for good reading, but is hardly an accurate way to understand the First World War. In a way, the greatest toll of the war was the physical destruction it caused, psychological after-effects it created in its wake.
 
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