F T/R Competition 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

[crewchef]

I've been shooting mid-range F-T/R with my stock SPS tactical .308 with 20" barrel. Have been really wanting to try my hand at 1000 but unsure if I should attempt it with this rifle. There is a 1000 yard match this weekend that's fairly close to me and I'm considering giving it a try.

So the question, have any of you shot 1000 yard competition with your SPS rifles. If so, results? I am reloading and current load is using 175 SMKs.

 

[scaxeman]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

What velocity are you able to wring out of your 175 load? I have heard of people being competitive (F-Class) at 1000 with stubby barrels, but they were running 208's or 210's. The velocity will tell you the true story though.

 

[crewchef]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

2610 average. Had a good grouping load that was running a bit faster but ejector marks on that one made it a no go.

I thought about trying some heavies but probably isn't worth the effort to work up the load This would be one time deal if I do it. Have a new custom rifle ordered that I'll be shooting next year and it will be sporting a 30" Krieger. Not going to pitch this rifle to the curb or anything but won't be primary go to for 1K.

 

[scaxeman]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

2610 at the muzzle will leave you a little short of mach at 1000 yards with the 175 SMK's, unless the match is *way* up in altitude.

 

[crewchef]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

Sort of what I thought but didn't cost anything to ask. I'm not sure on the elevation but it's certainly not "way" up there. No big deal, I'll get my chance at 1K early next year when things start back up.

 

[Jezzro2004]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

I really like 155 gr lapua scenars as they have shot really flat for me from ranges 600-900 yards, at 900 yards with 155 scenar out of a 26 in remington police .308 I used to have I had the following
Remington Brass
155 Gr Lapua Scenar
B.C. .508
Win Mag primers
46.9 Gr Varget
COAL 2.888"
MV= 2900fps
Temp 84.0 F
ALTITUDE 1476
took 23.50 MOA to hit 900 yards
The best thing I like about the 155s is you can be off a little on range estimation and still hit pretty well POA - POI. My bud has an SPS Tac and he hit it consistantly with 47 grns of varget going 2750-2800 fps I beieve he didn't dial no more than 3 moa more then I did when he made the shots

 

[Skigolfmike]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

What load Crew?

I am running 175 SMKs in my SPS Tactical, but I am only getting 2490 on the chrono. Maybe the chrono reads slow?

175 SMK
Winchester brass
CCI Primer
44.0gr Varget
Seated 2.800 OAL

 

[uscbigdawg]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

I get to 1k (and beyond at the Allegheny) with a relatively stock SPS-V. Yeah, I've got more barrel, but I'm only running at 2600fps.

Winchester brass
175gr. SMK's
CCI BR Primers
44.7gr Varget
2.750 OAL

Rich

 

[XTR]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

To the original poster, be very wary of MV claims from short barreled 308s. YMMV, but my experience is that at least half of them are at least 50 to 100 FPS higher compared to what I can get from a 24" 5R from Rock Creek.

There is a reason that guys shooting F-TR are putting 30" plus tubes on their rifles.

That said, run the numbers in a JBM calculator, hell just take your bullets and give it a whirl, participating is fun even if you are not competitive. You will learn a lot and maybe you'll even get the bug and start building something dedicated to the game. (I have)

 

[crewchef]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

FGMM brass, 43.4 Varget, Federal 210 with 175 SMK seated 2.345 to ogive. Yes, that is very long but still .025 off the lands (factory barrel) and they group as good as I can shoot at 100, 300, 500 and 600.

The concern around shooting these loads at 1K wasn't about being competitive, more about safety aspect. I don't want to be dinging the target carriers or throwing dirt all over the place with bullets that are tumbling when they get there. Shooting or just spectating this will be my firts trip over to AEDC. Wanted to meet some new shooters and pick the brains of some of the better F-Class folks. Spraying dirt or worse on the guys in the pits probably wouldn't help me make any new friends.

As mentioned above, new purpose built F-T/R rifle (CSS stock, Pierce action, Krieger heavy palma 30") is already on order and will be ready in time for first matches in 2012. This is just another opportunity for me to learn patience. I'll ride over just to watch and maybe learn a few things and meet some new people. XTR, I plan on making some trips to Oak Ridge next year too.

By the way just so I don't confuse anyone, Original post said this weekend. AEDC match is actually next weekend, November 12&13, Saturday (mid-range) and Sunday (long-range). I'll be shooting the mid-range match at Chattanooga this weekend, 11/6. Anyone close to Chattanooga come on out and shoot. If you're there, say hi so I can put a real name and face together with screen name. I don't think I've ever seen anyone else there shooting an SPS T so I should be easy to pick out. Just listen for me, I think it's probably the loudest thing on the line.

 

[XTR]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

I don't think that 175s exhibit the same instability of 168s going transonic, though I may be wrong there.

I load 175SMKs over 44.5 gn of Varget in Winchester brass. Mine get there soft but they get there. In matches that I'm more serious about I run 185 Berget BTs over 44gn seated out to 2.9+ they get there better.

 

[crewchef]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

I plan to work up loads for new rifle with Berger 185s, both the LRBT and hybrids. Might try the Hornady 208 AMax too, seems like some people are having good luck with it.

Shifting over to Winchester brass too at least for the new rifle. The FGMM has worked well but only had so much 1x fired to start with and needed more. Figured since I was buying might as well go with the Winchester.

 

[XTR]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

Winchester has good volume, it is almost always available, but you do need to prep it. Primer pockets and flash holes need to be uniformed and cleaned up.

Please note that my 185 BT load is way off of the charts, it is seated over .100 longer than the SMKs, if you push it back to mag length it is going to take up a lot of case volume and you may have pressure problems with the load above.

 

[crewchef]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

Using FGMM was a good way to learn about brass prep. I've been doing all that to the FGGM figuring things out along the way.

Everything will be single load so no worries on OAL. I never try to use someone else's load data. Nice to know what works for others but I'll do normal development with starting loads and work my way up to see what works for me. I used OCW for this last load work up. Was pretty easy to see what the gun liked and didn't take a lot of rounds to get it nailed down.

I'll be chomping at the bit waiting for first long range matches once new rifle is here and I've had chance to work up the load. When does Oak Ridge start having matches again in the spring?

 

[Malcky]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

that speen seems low, 2490 is way under where you want to be! tr at least another 1 gr or 1.5 gr that will get you closer to the speed you need, (do it safely go up in .5 and chech the usual things!)

 

[Malcky]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

I'm rinning a Remmy 700 SPS with a AICS, 32" S/S border barrel, Basic 2 OZ trigger L-3K (Yes, light I know)309 Precision Bipod custom paint job from LM Refinishing.

Lupua Brass
155 Gr Lapua Scenar
B.C. .508
CCI primers
45.8 Gr Varget
COAL 2.790"
MV= 3060fps
Temp 14.0 c
ALTITUDE 0050'

 

[Skigolfmike]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

I did a load test with Lapua brass starting at 41.0 Varget and going up to 45.0 in .5 increments. Basically, I got to 2500 fps at 43.5gr and that was all the faster it would go. In fact at 45.0 it started slowing down again.

The Winchester brass is 20gr lighter than the Lapua brass and it has a lot more case capacity. I have plenty of room for more powder in the Winchester cases. The Lapua cases were pretty much full at 44.0gr and everything above that was a compression load.

I haven't measured the chamber or tried loading long yet. My loads are checking at 2.214" to the ogive, so you are seating over .100 longer than I am. (Now I'm going to have to drag the gun out and check it.)

I have another set of loads in the Lapua brass setup from 43.2 - 44.0 in .1gr increments. I want to get those out to range and run a chrono test. Also the barrel was pretty new when I first tested it, so it may be shooting a little faster now. I must have broke it in right as I have not had any copper fouling in it yet.

 

[scaxeman]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Malcky (NI)</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
155 Gr Lapua Scenar
B.C. .508
</div></div>

The BC on those Scenars is a bit on the high side. In actual testing (Litz) they came in at .459 (G1). This is much more in line with the current crop of Berger 155.5's, at .464-ish.

Good velocity though. Pushing the 155.5's, I'm seeing ~3110 fps (out of Winchester brass).

Darrell

PS. How is your winter league going? Are the usual suspects rising to the top of the F-T/R field?

 

[Skigolfmike]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crewchef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FGMM brass, 43.4 Varget, Federal 210 with 175 SMK seated 2.345 to ogive. Yes, that is very long but still .025 off the lands (factory barrel) and they group as good as I can shoot at 100, 300, 500 and 600.</div></div>

Then we have the same chamber. Just checked mine at 2.370 to the ogive and 2.955 OAL with 175 SMKs. I'm reluctant to seat that long because, by my calculations, there's only about .075" of bullet being held by the neck. I'm not sure that's enough.

One thing I found that seemed to help is checking bullet concentricity (sp?) after loading. Keeping the run-out under .002" seems to help with consistency.

 

[Skigolfmike]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

My rifle has the same long throat as yours, so I experimented with running the OAL from 2.820" - 2.900" in .020" increments. I shot 2 5 shot groups with each OAL for 50 shots total in 5 shot groups. I don't think it made any difference. It's probably just the nut behind the gun. See if you can tell which is which.

 

[crewchef]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

I'm betting a pretty good (long) jump shot the best group but tell us which is which. I've been considering seating them deeper to see if I could tighten things up. Initial testing I moved .010 in and out and both group opened up. Should have tested a little more jump to see if they would tighten back up but haven't.

 

[Skigolfmike]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

OK - the top left and center is seated 2.820". Top right row and right middle row is 2.840". Bottom left and bottom center are 2.860". Bottom left and middle left are 2.880". The middle and one top right on the paper are 2.900".

The stray hole at the bottom of the paper, where it says "Federal Load", was a fouling shot and not part of any of the groups.

Ogive measurements were 2.234, 2.254, 2.274, 2.294 and 2.314 respectively.

 

[Skigolfmike]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

Shot this today at 200 yards (207 to be exact)

175 SMK 2.825 OAL (2.234 to ogive)
43.5 gr Varget
Lapua brass
CCI 200 primer.

 

[Skigolfmike]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

I was at TVP this weekend and the 175 SMKs made it to 1000 yards just fine. The dope in shooter was within .2 of being right on the money. Tried 3 shots at 1168 and just missed on the 3rd.

 

[okrebel92]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darrell Buell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2610 at the muzzle will leave you a little short of mach at 1000 yards with the 175 SMK's, unless the match is *way* up in altitude. </div></div>

You might want to re-check the data on that...@2600 his speed with a 175 smk would be Mach 1.077 @ 900 feet elevation. For all practical purposes though its pretty close. @2550 it would be mach 1.056.

 

[timelinex]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

If your asking about instability, don't worry about it. Even IF they become subsonic before 1000, its not like they are gonna just go wild. If your safe zone is like a square foot, then maybe I would be worried, but if its anything like any normal range, then you are just fine. Your bullet wont grow wings and drastically change directions when it goes subsonic. Besides all that, from my limited experience, 175SMK's transition well. Try it out, and you might be surprised how well they do. Especially if your in a little higher elevation. I think most will agree that if your 'kicking up dirt' and shooting all over the place, it will more likely be the nut behind the gun and not the gun/bullet.

I guess its a good thing though that your thinking about safety.

 

[SIE107]

Re: 1000 Yards with SPS Tactical?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crewchef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When does Oak Ridge start having matches again in the spring? </div></div>

They will start in March on the second weekend. 3X1000 on Sat, 3X600 on Sun, except for two which will be Palma matches on the sunday.

Also on the fourth Sunday of each month will be a Fullbore match shot at 800, 900 and 1000 yards.

Just remember that Fullbore matches and Palma matches are .223 and .308 matches. Though the rules are bullet weight restrictive in Fullbore matches according to the International rules, no one is weighing bullets here in the states except at the Spirit of America matches at Raton.

Also, those of you that shoot F-Class and F/TR, just a lil reminder that 2012 will be the first year that you all will be allowed to shoot at Camp Perry during the Long Range National Championships. This is due to the fact that the Americas Match is going to be held at Camp Perry on the last day of the matches and there will be at least 4 International teams there for the match. But those of us that are participating in the match but are not on an invited International team, will shoot under NRA Highpower rules, therefore, you will not be restricted in bullet weight.