Suppressors 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
- Thread starter Mr blasty
- Start date
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
the +P has higher velosity and energy at every yardage out to 50yrds, its a no brainer. Unless.........you are shooting subs w/ a suppressor, then the 147 are titties.
the +P has higher velosity and energy at every yardage out to 50yrds, its a no brainer. Unless.........you are shooting subs w/ a suppressor, then the 147 are titties.
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
Go poking around on "the buick of truth". If you are in any way concerned about vehicular ballistics, you'll end up packing 147s.
Go poking around on "the buick of truth". If you are in any way concerned about vehicular ballistics, you'll end up packing 147s.
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
No suppressors in MN unfortunately. I'm not that worried about vehicle ballistics since I don't have much faith in the 9mm for barrier penetration to begin with. Especially in JHP. I can't afford to get a .45 right now so I need to make the best of the 9mm. That said I'm not at all against the 9mm And I'm happy with it for now. I'm leaning towards the 124gr. +P since it is only a 4.5" barrel. Any other reason than barrier penetration for the heavy's?
No suppressors in MN unfortunately. I'm not that worried about vehicle ballistics since I don't have much faith in the 9mm for barrier penetration to begin with. Especially in JHP. I can't afford to get a .45 right now so I need to make the best of the 9mm. That said I'm not at all against the 9mm And I'm happy with it for now. I'm leaning towards the 124gr. +P since it is only a 4.5" barrel. Any other reason than barrier penetration for the heavy's?
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
Get whichever one you can most accurately put rounds on target!!
But with all things being equal...I'd opt for the 147gr.
Get whichever one you can most accurately put rounds on target!!
But with all things being equal...I'd opt for the 147gr.
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
If you are shooting suppressed use the 147s and if not get the 124s or 115s. From what I understand velocity is more conducive to energy than mass(forgot the exact equation that supports this). In other words if you can push a slightly smaller bullet a lot faster then you should be able to get more energy from it.
Go with whatever penetrates to desired depth with proper expansion, and with the most energy. I only shoot 147s but thats because I shoot suppressed and I have a shit ton of them.
If you are shooting suppressed use the 147s and if not get the 124s or 115s. From what I understand velocity is more conducive to energy than mass(forgot the exact equation that supports this). In other words if you can push a slightly smaller bullet a lot faster then you should be able to get more energy from it.
Go with whatever penetrates to desired depth with proper expansion, and with the most energy. I only shoot 147s but thats because I shoot suppressed and I have a shit ton of them.
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
I have yet to meet the person who can differentiate between what caliber or type of bullet it is that has perforated their vital organ.
Placement, and the first to do so, is usually the winning factor.
I have seen a guy climb in the back of an ambulance with a pumkin ball in his stomach and another DRT with a .25 to the chest.
Go figure.
I have yet to meet the person who can differentiate between what caliber or type of bullet it is that has perforated their vital organ.
Placement, and the first to do so, is usually the winning factor.
I have seen a guy climb in the back of an ambulance with a pumkin ball in his stomach and another DRT with a .25 to the chest.
Go figure.
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
I would go with the 147s if you can get some with 1050fps to 1150fps. Double Taps 9mm 147 used to do that, or close to it. I can do it safely with handloads but I don't want to ignite the "don't use handloads for defense" argument. If going with the 124g weight I would opt for the Winchester Ranger 127 +P+ instead of 124s. The Ranger has quite the rep for being a nasty little round. Big $$ though for a 9mm.
I would go with the 147s if you can get some with 1050fps to 1150fps. Double Taps 9mm 147 used to do that, or close to it. I can do it safely with handloads but I don't want to ignite the "don't use handloads for defense" argument. If going with the 124g weight I would opt for the Winchester Ranger 127 +P+ instead of 124s. The Ranger has quite the rep for being a nasty little round. Big $$ though for a 9mm.
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
Is it possible to have a company make the loads you want? Then they wouldn't be hand loads and therefor OK for self defense. Why doesn't anyone make 147gr. +P or +P+? Are they to high of pressure or what? I also would prefer a bonded bullet.
Is it possible to have a company make the loads you want? Then they wouldn't be hand loads and therefor OK for self defense. Why doesn't anyone make 147gr. +P or +P+? Are they to high of pressure or what? I also would prefer a bonded bullet.
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">shot placement is key </div></div>
Right here , repeat after me there ain't no such thing as a magic bullet . That being said my choice in carry ammo has always been the heaviest quality bullet going the fastest that runs reliably in my gun .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">shot placement is key </div></div>
Right here , repeat after me there ain't no such thing as a magic bullet . That being said my choice in carry ammo has always been the heaviest quality bullet going the fastest that runs reliably in my gun .
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joe-n-TX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have yet to meet the person who can differentiate between what caliber or type of bullet it is that has perforated their vital organ.
Placement, and the first to do so, is usually the winning factor.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I have seen a guy climb in the back of an ambulance with a pumkin ball in his stomach and another DRT with a .25 to the chest.</span>
Go figure. </div></div>
Yep. Had a guy with 6 .40's in the back and live and a guy with 1 .22 to the chest dead.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joe-n-TX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have yet to meet the person who can differentiate between what caliber or type of bullet it is that has perforated their vital organ.
Placement, and the first to do so, is usually the winning factor.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I have seen a guy climb in the back of an ambulance with a pumkin ball in his stomach and another DRT with a .25 to the chest.</span>
Go figure. </div></div>
Yep. Had a guy with 6 .40's in the back and live and a guy with 1 .22 to the chest dead.
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr blasty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it possible to have a company make the loads you want? Then they wouldn't be hand loads and therefor OK for self defense. Why doesn't anyone make 147gr. +P or +P+? Are they to high of pressure or what? I also would prefer a bonded bullet. </div></div>
.
Ask an ye shall recieve..147 + :
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=120
.
Ref the question on bonded...yes Gold Dots are bonded....and both the Rangers and Golden Sabers come in "bonded versions" now as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr blasty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it possible to have a company make the loads you want? Then they wouldn't be hand loads and therefor OK for self defense. Why doesn't anyone make 147gr. +P or +P+? Are they to high of pressure or what? I also would prefer a bonded bullet. </div></div>
.
Ask an ye shall recieve..147 + :
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=120
.
Ref the question on bonded...yes Gold Dots are bonded....and both the Rangers and Golden Sabers come in "bonded versions" now as well.
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">9mm will out penetrate 45 any day. </div></div>
This depends entirely on the construction of the bullet. Some 45's penetrate much more than a 9mm. Not trying to start a war here but I have seen the testing of many rounds in the standard "FBI Testing" procedures and the 9mm does not always perform as some anticipate. It depends on the quality and construction of the bullet of each manufacturer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">9mm will out penetrate 45 any day. </div></div>
This depends entirely on the construction of the bullet. Some 45's penetrate much more than a 9mm. Not trying to start a war here but I have seen the testing of many rounds in the standard "FBI Testing" procedures and the 9mm does not always perform as some anticipate. It depends on the quality and construction of the bullet of each manufacturer.
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">9mm will out penetrate 45 any day. </div></div>
Not so in every case. Bullet construction and weight/sectional density determine penetration. A controlled expansion hollow point such as a Hornady XTP in 45 acp will penetrate further than a 9mm HST. The larger diameter expansion slows down in tissue at a higher rate of speed, not to mention the heavier weight .45 bullet has a better chance of carrying its momentum through bone.
Not saying .45 out penetrates all the time, choice of bullet and rate of expansion are the determining factors.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">9mm will out penetrate 45 any day. </div></div>
Not so in every case. Bullet construction and weight/sectional density determine penetration. A controlled expansion hollow point such as a Hornady XTP in 45 acp will penetrate further than a 9mm HST. The larger diameter expansion slows down in tissue at a higher rate of speed, not to mention the heavier weight .45 bullet has a better chance of carrying its momentum through bone.
Not saying .45 out penetrates all the time, choice of bullet and rate of expansion are the determining factors.
Re: 124gr. +P or 147gr.?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have you done any tests yourself on barriers? </div></div>
Yes. Phone books, flat screen TV, 2x4's etc.... Over all not to happy the way most expand after going through a barrier. Manny well known rounds failed. The tip almost always seems to clog up and keeps it from expanding. Angles seem to just pancake the bullet and reduces penetration to 1/3 of what it would be for a straight shot. I like heavy rounds because of the increased penetration but if it doesn't expand reliably then it has nothing over FMJ and is not worth the fat price tag of defensive ammo. To me it's more important to have a lighter 124gr. +P that has the speed to expand properly after going through clothing or something similar than to have a 147gr. round that's only a little heavier but to slow out of the shorter G19 barrel to ensure proper expansion. I'll take a fast 124 over a slow 147 but I'm trying to find a heavier round that offers the speed I want to feel comfortable with the expansion. If I'm going to carry it and bet my girlfriends life and mine on it then it has to be the best I can find in my eyes. I know shot placement matters most but if the round doesn't perform then it shouldn't be carried. If it happens it will be stressful, over before I know it, probably in low/no light and life or death so I can't say that I know I'll hit there vital spots even though I dry fire constantly and shoot as much as my wallet wallet allows and then some.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have you done any tests yourself on barriers? </div></div>
Yes. Phone books, flat screen TV, 2x4's etc.... Over all not to happy the way most expand after going through a barrier. Manny well known rounds failed. The tip almost always seems to clog up and keeps it from expanding. Angles seem to just pancake the bullet and reduces penetration to 1/3 of what it would be for a straight shot. I like heavy rounds because of the increased penetration but if it doesn't expand reliably then it has nothing over FMJ and is not worth the fat price tag of defensive ammo. To me it's more important to have a lighter 124gr. +P that has the speed to expand properly after going through clothing or something similar than to have a 147gr. round that's only a little heavier but to slow out of the shorter G19 barrel to ensure proper expansion. I'll take a fast 124 over a slow 147 but I'm trying to find a heavier round that offers the speed I want to feel comfortable with the expansion. If I'm going to carry it and bet my girlfriends life and mine on it then it has to be the best I can find in my eyes. I know shot placement matters most but if the round doesn't perform then it shouldn't be carried. If it happens it will be stressful, over before I know it, probably in low/no light and life or death so I can't say that I know I'll hit there vital spots even though I dry fire constantly and shoot as much as my wallet wallet allows and then some.
