EDIT: SCOPE TRACKING SHOOTOUT ON HOLD... MIGHT CHANGE TARGET SIZE!! SHOULD BE DONE IN A DAY OR TWO!!
- Thread starter elfster1234
- Start date
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
Your final target should looks something like this:
Take measurements of each 5shot group from the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">center of the furthest bullet hole to the center of each bullseye. (remember when taking your shots your crosshairs are on the middle bullseye during the entire shoot!!!)......</span></span> <span style="font-weight: bold">In this example, your tracking # would be .5415" + .514" + 1.1595" + .529" + .680" = 3.424 divided by 5 groups = .6848 tracking result # (the lower the better).</span>
<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">THEN, for your best single group size, pick the smallest group out of the 5 as shown here in this picture.... IF YOUR MIDDLE GROUP HAPPENS TO BE THE BEST GROUP SIZE OUT OF THE 5 GROUPS, THEN YOU HAVE A DAMN GOOD SCOPE!!!:</span></span>
Your final target should looks something like this:
Take measurements of each 5shot group from the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">center of the furthest bullet hole to the center of each bullseye. (remember when taking your shots your crosshairs are on the middle bullseye during the entire shoot!!!)......</span></span> <span style="font-weight: bold">In this example, your tracking # would be .5415" + .514" + 1.1595" + .529" + .680" = 3.424 divided by 5 groups = .6848 tracking result # (the lower the better).</span>
<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">THEN, for your best single group size, pick the smallest group out of the 5 as shown here in this picture.... IF YOUR MIDDLE GROUP HAPPENS TO BE THE BEST GROUP SIZE OUT OF THE 5 GROUPS, THEN YOU HAVE A DAMN GOOD SCOPE!!!:</span></span>
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
YOUR POSTING SHOULD LOOKS SOMETHING LIKE THIS!!
1.) scope used, rifle used, type of barrel and length, blah blah
2.) how you took your shots (bipod, monopod, sand bags, prone, whatever)
picture of entire target WITH CALIPERS on middle bullseye tracking result AND "tracking" measurements on each group (.5415" + .514" + 1.1595" + .529" + .680" = 3.424 divided by 5 groups = .6848 tracking result#). <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">REMEMBER!! THESE MEASUREMENTS ARE NOT GROUP SIZE!! THE MEASUREMENTS IS THE CENTER OF THE FURTHEST BULLET HOLE TO THE CENTER OF THE BULLSEYE,,, for each group (5 total)!!</span></span>
picture of your best group (.884" best single group):
picture of your rifle with scope:
YOUR POSTING SHOULD LOOKS SOMETHING LIKE THIS!!
1.) scope used, rifle used, type of barrel and length, blah blah
2.) how you took your shots (bipod, monopod, sand bags, prone, whatever)
picture of entire target WITH CALIPERS on middle bullseye tracking result AND "tracking" measurements on each group (.5415" + .514" + 1.1595" + .529" + .680" = 3.424 divided by 5 groups = .6848 tracking result#). <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">REMEMBER!! THESE MEASUREMENTS ARE NOT GROUP SIZE!! THE MEASUREMENTS IS THE CENTER OF THE FURTHEST BULLET HOLE TO THE CENTER OF THE BULLSEYE,,, for each group (5 total)!!</span></span>
picture of your best group (.884" best single group):
picture of your rifle with scope:
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
If you don't have a target handy, then make your own! Would still recommend buying a commercial target with 1" squares!
If you don't have a target handy, then make your own! Would still recommend buying a commercial target with 1" squares!
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
There, the SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2 is completely done and ready to rock and roll. Might give this a shot this coming weekend. This should really give myself, rifle, and especially my scope a run for its money.
If you have any questions about this shootout#2, then feel free to send me a PM.
There, the SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2 is completely done and ready to rock and roll. Might give this a shot this coming weekend. This should really give myself, rifle, and especially my scope a run for its money.
If you have any questions about this shootout#2, then feel free to send me a PM.
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
Can this be done with a rimfire? I just mounted a new scope, and I'm wondering how it tracks. I figured I might as well submit the tgt. Right?
Can this be done with a rimfire? I just mounted a new scope, and I'm wondering how it tracks. I figured I might as well submit the tgt. Right?
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
Just as long as it is semi-auto and can reach 100yards, no problem. Can be any caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SJshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can this be done with a rimfire? I just mounted a new scope, and I'm wondering how it tracks. I figured I might as well submit the tgt. Right? </div></div>
Just as long as it is semi-auto and can reach 100yards, no problem. Can be any caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SJshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can this be done with a rimfire? I just mounted a new scope, and I'm wondering how it tracks. I figured I might as well submit the tgt. Right? </div></div>
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
elfster,
that seems like a pretty slick drill/exercise. Did you come up with that on your own?
elfster,
that seems like a pretty slick drill/exercise. Did you come up with that on your own?
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
I can't wait to try this test. I know my rifle will shoot nice groups but I'm not sure how the scope tracks. If my Nikon M-223 isn't up to the task then I'll throw my razor on it... I know it's adjustments are perfect.
I can't wait to try this test. I know my rifle will shoot nice groups but I'm not sure how the scope tracks. If my Nikon M-223 isn't up to the task then I'll throw my razor on it... I know it's adjustments are perfect.
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
Elfster, you might consider adding an optional 6th group. That way the shooter could potentially submit the the same target for both competitions. Just a thought.
Elfster, you might consider adding an optional 6th group. That way the shooter could potentially submit the the same target for both competitions. Just a thought.
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
yes and no... there is a video posted on the OP. I took that video, then converted it into a shootout game by adding a heck of a lot more shots (25 total shots, 5 total groups),,,,, and then came up with the idea of measuring the distance from the furthest bullet hole to the center of each bullseye, then taking the average "tracking result number" of all 5 groups together = should give you a really really solid idea of the quality of your scope and your performance / rifle's performance.. more of a test of your scope than anything... obviously the lower the number the better.... then I just added the second "best group" size number as a side show.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">if your "best single group size" happens to be your middle group, THEN YOU HAVE ONE HELL OF A SCOPE!! (reason = because the middle group consists of 5 total seperate "return to zero" shots!!!) If you get this, then brag it up baby! LOL</span></span>
I'm an estimator by trade, so all I deal with is numbers all day long. I can't help it. LOL
Elf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: northshore440</div><div class="ubbcode-body">elfster,
that seems like a pretty slick drill/exercise. Did you come up with that on your own? </div></div>
yes and no... there is a video posted on the OP. I took that video, then converted it into a shootout game by adding a heck of a lot more shots (25 total shots, 5 total groups),,,,, and then came up with the idea of measuring the distance from the furthest bullet hole to the center of each bullseye, then taking the average "tracking result number" of all 5 groups together = should give you a really really solid idea of the quality of your scope and your performance / rifle's performance.. more of a test of your scope than anything... obviously the lower the number the better.... then I just added the second "best group" size number as a side show.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">if your "best single group size" happens to be your middle group, THEN YOU HAVE ONE HELL OF A SCOPE!! (reason = because the middle group consists of 5 total seperate "return to zero" shots!!!) If you get this, then brag it up baby! LOL</span></span>
I'm an estimator by trade, so all I deal with is numbers all day long. I can't help it. LOL
Elf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: northshore440</div><div class="ubbcode-body">elfster,
that seems like a pretty slick drill/exercise. Did you come up with that on your own? </div></div>
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
i was thinking about that before i developed this shootout, but I didn't want to mix the two besides the fact running just one sucks up enough time...
I will most likely start another one here very soon for LONG DISTANCE... just not sure how I want to set it up yet.. maybe 300yards, maybe something like the 6group 30shot shootout but at 300yards.. not sure yet.. trying to think up a nice twist to it so each shootout has it own particular flavor.
Elf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Low Sioux</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Elfster, you might consider adding an optional 6th group. That way the shooter could potentially submit the the same target for both competitions. Just a thought. </div></div>
i was thinking about that before i developed this shootout, but I didn't want to mix the two besides the fact running just one sucks up enough time...
I will most likely start another one here very soon for LONG DISTANCE... just not sure how I want to set it up yet.. maybe 300yards, maybe something like the 6group 30shot shootout but at 300yards.. not sure yet.. trying to think up a nice twist to it so each shootout has it own particular flavor.
Elf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Low Sioux</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Elfster, you might consider adding an optional 6th group. That way the shooter could potentially submit the the same target for both competitions. Just a thought. </div></div>
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">FINALLY, if your "best single group size" happens to be your middle group, THEN YOU HAVE ONE HELL OF A SCOPE!! (reason = because the middle group consists of 5 total seperate "return to zero" shots!!!) If you get this, then brag it up baby! LOL</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">FINALLY, if your "best single group size" happens to be your middle group, THEN YOU HAVE ONE HELL OF A SCOPE!! (reason = because the middle group consists of 5 total seperate "return to zero" shots!!!) If you get this, then brag it up baby! LOL</span></span>
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
Okay I kinda did not do this correctly -- I need to get some measurements off two targets, but I'll get that in a few minutes.
KAC M110SASS w/ Leupold 3.5-10x44 Mk4 (US Army M110 scope)
Tracking numbers 1.139" + 1.025" + .684" + 1.064" + 1.178" = 5.09 divided by 5 = 1.018" tracking number average
Best group is = .828"
I dicked up my last round as I only came back up 3MOA - my mistake - not the scopes fault
Further info on the later posts
Okay I kinda did not do this correctly -- I need to get some measurements off two targets, but I'll get that in a few minutes.
KAC M110SASS w/ Leupold 3.5-10x44 Mk4 (US Army M110 scope)
Tracking numbers 1.139" + 1.025" + .684" + 1.064" + 1.178" = 5.09 divided by 5 = 1.018" tracking number average
Best group is = .828"
I dicked up my last round as I only came back up 3MOA - my mistake - not the scopes fault
Further info on the later posts
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
This is awesome Kevin. Just hook me up with the correct caliper picture (center of bullet to center bullseye),,, and other pic with (best group caliper measurement)...... also add up all the groups "center of furthest bullet hole to center of bullseye" of each group...... and I'll get your name posted. Nice job. Man, I bet your arms collection is friggen insane.
I'm going to the range tomorrow to do some general shooting, the 30round 6group test, and also this scope tracking test. I should have something posted by tomorrow.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay I kinda did not do this correctly -- I need to get some measurements off two targets, but I'll get that in a few minutes.
KAC M110SASS w/ Leupold 3.5-10x44 Mk4 (US Army M110 scope)
I dicked up my last round as I only came back up 3MOA - my mistake - not the scopes fault
I'll get on the rest of the required info and get back on here with that. </div></div>
This is awesome Kevin. Just hook me up with the correct caliper picture (center of bullet to center bullseye),,, and other pic with (best group caliper measurement)...... also add up all the groups "center of furthest bullet hole to center of bullseye" of each group...... and I'll get your name posted. Nice job. Man, I bet your arms collection is friggen insane.
I'm going to the range tomorrow to do some general shooting, the 30round 6group test, and also this scope tracking test. I should have something posted by tomorrow.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay I kinda did not do this correctly -- I need to get some measurements off two targets, but I'll get that in a few minutes.
KAC M110SASS w/ Leupold 3.5-10x44 Mk4 (US Army M110 scope)
I dicked up my last round as I only came back up 3MOA - my mistake - not the scopes fault
I'll get on the rest of the required info and get back on here with that. </div></div>
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
Okay I think I got this corrected.
I also noted where round#5 would (should) have been if I have come up 4 MOA not 3 to got back to the zeroing target.
Okay I think I got this corrected.
I also noted where round#5 would (should) have been if I have come up 4 MOA not 3 to got back to the zeroing target.
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
I'll also point out that I know the Leupold Mk4's track.
We took 30 to an optical bench we use for Night Vision boresight confirmation, and ran all up and down and left and right - the most deflection we could get was 1MOA when cranked up into the stops, and as soon as you backed off them, they jumped back to zero -- you can get a 1/8th MOA jiggle in a few, but I am not a 1/8th MOA shooter -- and quite frankly I wonder somedays if I am a MOA shooter...
That said I'm going to blame the ammo
I also shot this with my ECC suppressed using a Mk8 1.1-8x CQBSS, I used 1Mil for my adjustments (4" is 10.2cm) I'll try and get that posted - but I'm heading to bed as I've got to be in Benning tomorrow.
I'll also point out that I know the Leupold Mk4's track.
We took 30 to an optical bench we use for Night Vision boresight confirmation, and ran all up and down and left and right - the most deflection we could get was 1MOA when cranked up into the stops, and as soon as you backed off them, they jumped back to zero -- you can get a 1/8th MOA jiggle in a few, but I am not a 1/8th MOA shooter -- and quite frankly I wonder somedays if I am a MOA shooter...
That said I'm going to blame the ammo
I also shot this with my ECC suppressed using a Mk8 1.1-8x CQBSS, I used 1Mil for my adjustments (4" is 10.2cm) I'll try and get that posted - but I'm heading to bed as I've got to be in Benning tomorrow.
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
<span style="color: #CC6600">so is your tracking number 1.139" + 1.025" + .684" + 1.064" + 1.178" = 5.09 divided by 5 = <span style="text-decoration: underline">1.018" tracking number average</span>??</span>
<span style="color: #999900">and best single group is = <span style="text-decoration: underline">.828" best group</span>???</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay I think I got this corrected.
I also noted where round#5 would (should) have been if I have come up 4 MOA not 3 to got back to the zeroing target.
</div></div>
<span style="color: #CC6600">so is your tracking number 1.139" + 1.025" + .684" + 1.064" + 1.178" = 5.09 divided by 5 = <span style="text-decoration: underline">1.018" tracking number average</span>??</span>
<span style="color: #999900">and best single group is = <span style="text-decoration: underline">.828" best group</span>???</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay I think I got this corrected.
I also noted where round#5 would (should) have been if I have come up 4 MOA not 3 to got back to the zeroing target.
</div></div>
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
welcome to the leader boards KevinB-KAC, and for being the first person! I'll have number's up tomorrow for my LMT and Vortex PST 4-16x50 FFP scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll also point out that I know the Leupold Mk4's track.
We took 30 to an optical bench we use for Night Vision boresight confirmation, and ran all up and down and left and right - the most deflection we could get was 1MOA when cranked up into the stops, and as soon as you backed off them, they jumped back to zero -- you can get a 1/8th MOA jiggle in a few, but I am not a 1/8th MOA shooter -- and quite frankly I wonder somedays if I am a MOA shooter...
That said I'm going to blame the ammo
I also shot this with my ECC suppressed using a Mk8 1.1-8x CQBSS, I used 1Mil for my adjustments (4" is 10.2cm) I'll try and get that posted - but I'm heading to bed as I've got to be in Benning tomorrow.
</div></div>
welcome to the leader boards KevinB-KAC, and for being the first person! I'll have number's up tomorrow for my LMT and Vortex PST 4-16x50 FFP scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll also point out that I know the Leupold Mk4's track.
We took 30 to an optical bench we use for Night Vision boresight confirmation, and ran all up and down and left and right - the most deflection we could get was 1MOA when cranked up into the stops, and as soon as you backed off them, they jumped back to zero -- you can get a 1/8th MOA jiggle in a few, but I am not a 1/8th MOA shooter -- and quite frankly I wonder somedays if I am a MOA shooter...
That said I'm going to blame the ammo
I also shot this with my ECC suppressed using a Mk8 1.1-8x CQBSS, I used 1Mil for my adjustments (4" is 10.2cm) I'll try and get that posted - but I'm heading to bed as I've got to be in Benning tomorrow.
</div></div>
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
Been looking at this and realized, all targets are in inches, all my scopes are in Mils. It will not be exact.
Been looking at this and realized, all targets are in inches, all my scopes are in Mils. It will not be exact.
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
you can change the size of the "box" just as long as it is close to 8"x8". this is from the OP rules:
You can adjust this slightly if needed (don't push it), but try to keep it around this general size in order to keep this thread consistant. Try to stick with a 8"x8" box if all possible.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Been looking at this and realized, all targets are in inches, all my scopes are in Mils. It will not be exact. </div></div>
you can change the size of the "box" just as long as it is close to 8"x8". this is from the OP rules:
You can adjust this slightly if needed (don't push it), but try to keep it around this general size in order to keep this thread consistant. Try to stick with a 8"x8" box if all possible.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Been looking at this and realized, all targets are in inches, all my scopes are in Mils. It will not be exact. </div></div>
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
Okay for you mils guys who haven't brought out the calculator yet (and don't have conversions memorized):
2.2 mils box would be 7.92 inches per side at 100 yards;
2.3 mils box would be 8.28 inches per side at 100 yards.
.003 off of an even quarter-inch is closer than .008 off from the even full inch. If you care.
Two yards off on your target placement would put in an error of either 0.1656 inch too big of a 2.3 mill box at 98, or the box being that same length too small at 102 yards. The percentages off would be different in each direction, but not to a truly significant digit for these purposes.
For those shooting bug-hole groups and needing to measure to the outside edges, remember that .308-caliber bullets leave holes in paper only about .270. Thus measuring outsides and subtracting the entire bore diameter results in falsely small calculations. To me safe, measure your own holes first if you need to measure that way.
Me, I prefer to measure from near edge of one hole to the far edge of the other. MUCH more reliable for my eyes than trying to peg the center of where there's nothing left.
Okay for you mils guys who haven't brought out the calculator yet (and don't have conversions memorized):
2.2 mils box would be 7.92 inches per side at 100 yards;
2.3 mils box would be 8.28 inches per side at 100 yards.
.003 off of an even quarter-inch is closer than .008 off from the even full inch. If you care.
Two yards off on your target placement would put in an error of either 0.1656 inch too big of a 2.3 mill box at 98, or the box being that same length too small at 102 yards. The percentages off would be different in each direction, but not to a truly significant digit for these purposes.
For those shooting bug-hole groups and needing to measure to the outside edges, remember that .308-caliber bullets leave holes in paper only about .270. Thus measuring outsides and subtracting the entire bore diameter results in falsely small calculations. To me safe, measure your own holes first if you need to measure that way.
Me, I prefer to measure from near edge of one hole to the far edge of the other. MUCH more reliable for my eyes than trying to peg the center of where there's nothing left.
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
1mil equals 10cm @100m
1mil = 9.14cm @ 100yds
9.14cm = 3.598"
Solution for Mil scopes at 100yds is make your box 7.2" in length (3.6" x2)
If your shooting a Mil Scope at 100M
10cm = 3.937" so the 4" box is fine for that.
It will be close enough for government work.
V/R
1mil equals 10cm @100m
1mil = 9.14cm @ 100yds
9.14cm = 3.598"
Solution for Mil scopes at 100yds is make your box 7.2" in length (3.6" x2)
If your shooting a Mil Scope at 100M
10cm = 3.937" so the 4" box is fine for that.
It will be close enough for government work.
V/R
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
Edited, already answered above...
Edited, already answered above...
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
The issue is, the box size you are using is not quite large enough to identify errors in many scopes. The errors have to compound so that means getting to a point where the compound actually shows up.
I don't recommend box testing a scope with any less movement than 20" - 24" at a bare minimum.
If you identify tracking errors over that small a distance I think the scope needs to go back asap.
The issue is, the box size you are using is not quite large enough to identify errors in many scopes. The errors have to compound so that means getting to a point where the compound actually shows up.
I don't recommend box testing a scope with any less movement than 20" - 24" at a bare minimum.
If you identify tracking errors over that small a distance I think the scope needs to go back asap.
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
EDIT: SCOPE TRACKING SHOOTOUT ON HOLD... MIGHT CHANGE TARGET SIZE!! SHOULD BE DONE IN A DAY OR TWO!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The issue is, the box size you are using is not quite large enough to identify errors in many scopes. The errors have to compound so that means getting to a point where the compound actually shows up.
I don't recommend box testing a scope with any less movement than 20" - 24" at a bare minimum.
If you identify tracking errors over that small a distance I think the scope needs to go back asap. </div></div>
EDIT: SCOPE TRACKING SHOOTOUT ON HOLD... MIGHT CHANGE TARGET SIZE!! SHOULD BE DONE IN A DAY OR TWO!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The issue is, the box size you are using is not quite large enough to identify errors in many scopes. The errors have to compound so that means getting to a point where the compound actually shows up.
I don't recommend box testing a scope with any less movement than 20" - 24" at a bare minimum.
If you identify tracking errors over that small a distance I think the scope needs to go back asap. </div></div>
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
thanks kevinB, you're the man... i'll put this into the OP
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1mil equals 10cm @100m
1mil = 9.14cm @ 100yds
9.14cm = 3.598"
Solution for Mil scopes at 100yds is make your box 7.2" in length (3.6" x2)
If your shooting a Mil Scope at 100M
10cm = 3.937" so the 4" box is fine for that.
It will be close enough for government work.
V/R
</div></div>
thanks kevinB, you're the man... i'll put this into the OP
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1mil equals 10cm @100m
1mil = 9.14cm @ 100yds
9.14cm = 3.598"
Solution for Mil scopes at 100yds is make your box 7.2" in length (3.6" x2)
If your shooting a Mil Scope at 100M
10cm = 3.937" so the 4" box is fine for that.
It will be close enough for government work.
V/R
</div></div>
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
Really, because the guy in a "video" doesn't know what he is doing we should all accept and follow his lead.
4 MOA is an empty gesture and design by people so nobody ever looks bad. Errors compound. You can easily hid a scope error at 100 yards over 4MOA as being shooter error, especially if the shooter is not grouping better than 1/2 minute.
How about doing it right and understanding errors compound, the difference between an tracking error of .02" per click may get masked by the group, but at 1000 yards, that can potentially be a 4 to 5 MOA difference. You think you dialed 36 MOA and your scope only moved the reticle 31.6" see the problem there ?
Otherwise I recommend you call it something else... cause you're not testing tracking moving the scope in a square 4 MOA at a time.
Really, because the guy in a "video" doesn't know what he is doing we should all accept and follow his lead.
4 MOA is an empty gesture and design by people so nobody ever looks bad. Errors compound. You can easily hid a scope error at 100 yards over 4MOA as being shooter error, especially if the shooter is not grouping better than 1/2 minute.
How about doing it right and understanding errors compound, the difference between an tracking error of .02" per click may get masked by the group, but at 1000 yards, that can potentially be a 4 to 5 MOA difference. You think you dialed 36 MOA and your scope only moved the reticle 31.6" see the problem there ?
Otherwise I recommend you call it something else... cause you're not testing tracking moving the scope in a square 4 MOA at a time.
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
so you are thinking like a 20" box? can't make it too big tho as some people might not have that big of paper...
kevinB, what do you think about this?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really, because the guy in a "video" doesn't know what he is doing we should all accept and follow his lead.
4 MOA is an empty gesture and design by people so nobody ever looks bad. Errors compound. You can easily hid a scope error at 100 yards over 4MOA as being shooter error, especially if the shooter is not grouping better than 1/2 minute.
How about doing it right and understanding errors compound, the difference between an tracking error of .02" per click may get masked by the group, but at 1000 yards, that can potentially be a 4 to 5 MOA difference. You think you dialed 36 MOA and your scope only moved the reticle 31.6" see the problem there ?
Otherwise I recommend you call it something else... cause you're not testing tracking moving the scope in a square 4 MOA at a time.
</div></div>
so you are thinking like a 20" box? can't make it too big tho as some people might not have that big of paper...
kevinB, what do you think about this?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really, because the guy in a "video" doesn't know what he is doing we should all accept and follow his lead.
4 MOA is an empty gesture and design by people so nobody ever looks bad. Errors compound. You can easily hid a scope error at 100 yards over 4MOA as being shooter error, especially if the shooter is not grouping better than 1/2 minute.
How about doing it right and understanding errors compound, the difference between an tracking error of .02" per click may get masked by the group, but at 1000 yards, that can potentially be a 4 to 5 MOA difference. You think you dialed 36 MOA and your scope only moved the reticle 31.6" see the problem there ?
Otherwise I recommend you call it something else... cause you're not testing tracking moving the scope in a square 4 MOA at a time.
</div></div>
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
Use a big piece of cardboard or something. I go out to atleast 10 mils or 40 moa when I run elevation tracking tests and as far as the windage would go although I hold my wind so that's not as much of a concern for me. You won't get any worrhwhile data from a 4 moa test. Like Lowlight said if you do then that scope needs to go back as its seriously screwed.
Use a big piece of cardboard or something. I go out to atleast 10 mils or 40 moa when I run elevation tracking tests and as far as the windage would go although I hold my wind so that's not as much of a concern for me. You won't get any worrhwhile data from a 4 moa test. Like Lowlight said if you do then that scope needs to go back as its seriously screwed.
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
ok, sounds good.... so 24" box then / 12moa adjustment from center bullseye? I think if I go anymore than this people will just bypass the whole thing. i'll put the shootout on hold and edit everything. thanks for the input and advice. It might take me a day or two to get this done. Let me know what you think.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really, because the guy in a "video" doesn't know what he is doing we should all accept and follow his lead.
4 MOA is an empty gesture and design by people so nobody ever looks bad. Errors compound. You can easily hid a scope error at 100 yards over 4MOA as being shooter error, especially if the shooter is not grouping better than 1/2 minute.
How about doing it right and understanding errors compound, the difference between an tracking error of .02" per click may get masked by the group, but at 1000 yards, that can potentially be a 4 to 5 MOA difference. You think you dialed 36 MOA and your scope only moved the reticle 31.6" see the problem there ?
Otherwise I recommend you call it something else... cause you're not testing tracking moving the scope in a square 4 MOA at a time.
</div></div>
ok, sounds good.... so 24" box then / 12moa adjustment from center bullseye? I think if I go anymore than this people will just bypass the whole thing. i'll put the shootout on hold and edit everything. thanks for the input and advice. It might take me a day or two to get this done. Let me know what you think.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really, because the guy in a "video" doesn't know what he is doing we should all accept and follow his lead.
4 MOA is an empty gesture and design by people so nobody ever looks bad. Errors compound. You can easily hid a scope error at 100 yards over 4MOA as being shooter error, especially if the shooter is not grouping better than 1/2 minute.
How about doing it right and understanding errors compound, the difference between an tracking error of .02" per click may get masked by the group, but at 1000 yards, that can potentially be a 4 to 5 MOA difference. You think you dialed 36 MOA and your scope only moved the reticle 31.6" see the problem there ?
Otherwise I recommend you call it something else... cause you're not testing tracking moving the scope in a square 4 MOA at a time.
</div></div>
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
EDIT: SCOPE TRACKING SHOOTOUT ON HOLD... MIGHT CHANGE TARGET SIZE!! SHOULD BE DONE IN A DAY OR TWO!!
EDIT: SCOPE TRACKING SHOOTOUT ON HOLD... MIGHT CHANGE TARGET SIZE!! SHOULD BE DONE IN A DAY OR TWO!!
Re: SemiAuto, 5groups, Scope Tracking SHOOTOUT#2!!!!
Yeah, 6.7 mils will work.
I know some like even numbers, but the magnitude of the dialing should be as comparable as practical, regardless of the number of clicks involved.
Me, I'm not much interested in "events" of this sort using more than 20 rounds. When I want to shoot 50 or 55 or 88, I'll just go shoot some over-the-course.
Yeah, 6.7 mils will work.
I know some like even numbers, but the magnitude of the dialing should be as comparable as practical, regardless of the number of clicks involved.
Me, I'm not much interested in "events" of this sort using more than 20 rounds. When I want to shoot 50 or 55 or 88, I'll just go shoot some over-the-course.
