308 26" krieger 1-10. How do the 155 scenars do compared to a 175 smk? playing around with some ballistics calcs and talking to others the 155 sc seem to have a better g7and hold vel with less wind drift and elevation at ext ranges. am i missing something? what about twist rate?any advice and experience welcomed. thanks
Range Report 155 or 175 ?
- Thread starter DoubleBarrel
- Start date
Re: 155 or 175 ?
The 175's will be more stable at distance. What ranges do you intend to shoot with this rifle?
The 175's will be more stable at distance. What ranges do you intend to shoot with this rifle?
Re: 155 or 175 ?
The 155 scenar is a better bullet for longrange in my opinion,you have to push is to its working speed 2850-3k fps to be very accuarate out to 1k or farther.Should be no problem out of your 26" tube.The 175smk is ok too ,all it needs is at least 2625 fps to be accurate out to 1k.What are you planning on doing with the rifle? F/tr match or ? If match/ long range comps are you plans ,id go with the 155 scenar or new palma smk.If your going to shoot only up to 600-800yds then its cheaper to go with 175smks vise scenars.155 palma bullet is also cheaper than scenar.
Go to the reloading forum and search ,there is plenty of info here on the 155s and 175s,this topic is always brought up.
The 155 scenar is a better bullet for longrange in my opinion,you have to push is to its working speed 2850-3k fps to be very accuarate out to 1k or farther.Should be no problem out of your 26" tube.The 175smk is ok too ,all it needs is at least 2625 fps to be accurate out to 1k.What are you planning on doing with the rifle? F/tr match or ? If match/ long range comps are you plans ,id go with the 155 scenar or new palma smk.If your going to shoot only up to 600-800yds then its cheaper to go with 175smks vise scenars.155 palma bullet is also cheaper than scenar.
Go to the reloading forum and search ,there is plenty of info here on the 155s and 175s,this topic is always brought up.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
600, 1000 f/tr. matches, comps etc.
600, 1000 f/tr. matches, comps etc.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DoubleBarrel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">600, 1000 f/tr. matches, comps etc. </div></div>
Then go scenar or new palma smk.you wont be sorry.1-10 twist is fine with the 155s and 175s.
.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DoubleBarrel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">600, 1000 f/tr. matches, comps etc. </div></div>
Then go scenar or new palma smk.you wont be sorry.1-10 twist is fine with the 155s and 175s.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
You've pretty much nailed it. IMO, if the 155 scenars will shoot well out of your rifle, there's no reason to look at the 175s. I shoot them exclusively, though I will be giving the berger 155.5 fullbore bullets a shot in the coming months.
Shoot for 2900+. I'd honestly guess you'll be at 47+ grains of varget in a lapua case. I've seen guys say as much as 48gr, and I shoot 47.6gr in one rifle at 47.2 in another. As always, work up to that level to be sure you're safe.
You've pretty much nailed it. IMO, if the 155 scenars will shoot well out of your rifle, there's no reason to look at the 175s. I shoot them exclusively, though I will be giving the berger 155.5 fullbore bullets a shot in the coming months.
Shoot for 2900+. I'd honestly guess you'll be at 47+ grains of varget in a lapua case. I've seen guys say as much as 48gr, and I shoot 47.6gr in one rifle at 47.2 in another. As always, work up to that level to be sure you're safe.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
For those of you who understand BC better than me, why do you need different velocities to reach 1K from these 2 bullets? The BC is pretty much the same, and while I understand that driving the 155 faster is an advantage, shouldn't they fly much the same at the same speed because of the very similar BC? Will a 155 not reliably reach 1K at 2700 or so?
I've been pondering the same thing, as both the 175 and 155 shoot well out of my stick.
For those of you who understand BC better than me, why do you need different velocities to reach 1K from these 2 bullets? The BC is pretty much the same, and while I understand that driving the 155 faster is an advantage, shouldn't they fly much the same at the same speed because of the very similar BC? Will a 155 not reliably reach 1K at 2700 or so?
I've been pondering the same thing, as both the 175 and 155 shoot well out of my stick.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
Salazar covers it all in these articles:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/cartridges-1000-yard-308-load.html
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/cartridges-1000-yard-308-case-capacity.html
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRS_Ranger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For those of you who understand BC better than me, why do you need different velocities to reach 1K from these 2 bullets? The BC is pretty much the same, and while I understand that driving the 155 faster is an advantage, shouldn't they fly much the same at the same speed because of the very similar BC? Will a 155 not reliably reach 1K at 2700 or so?
I've been pondering the same thing, as both the 175 and 155 shoot well out of my stick. </div></div>
Salazar covers it all in these articles:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/cartridges-1000-yard-308-load.html
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/cartridges-1000-yard-308-case-capacity.html
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRS_Ranger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For those of you who understand BC better than me, why do you need different velocities to reach 1K from these 2 bullets? The BC is pretty much the same, and while I understand that driving the 155 faster is an advantage, shouldn't they fly much the same at the same speed because of the very similar BC? Will a 155 not reliably reach 1K at 2700 or so?
I've been pondering the same thing, as both the 175 and 155 shoot well out of my stick. </div></div>
Re: 155 or 175 ?
The 175 will buck the wind a slight bit better due to its extra weight, altho i has more lag time compared to the 155.
I would dare say the 175 would be a slightly better bullet in that regard, however i still prefer to use the scenar.
I have gone over this all in my head time and time again and for some reason keep coming back to the Lapua Scenar.
The 175 will buck the wind a slight bit better due to its extra weight, altho i has more lag time compared to the 155.
I would dare say the 175 would be a slightly better bullet in that regard, however i still prefer to use the scenar.
I have gone over this all in my head time and time again and for some reason keep coming back to the Lapua Scenar.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
I would take a look at the Berger LR 175 or the LR 185. They both beat the 155. I shoot the 185 in my F/TR rig. My velocity is right at 2825fps.
I would take a look at the Berger LR 175 or the LR 185. They both beat the 155. I shoot the 185 in my F/TR rig. My velocity is right at 2825fps.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
Per Berger/JBM at sea level with standard conditions:
155.5g Berger Fullbore (BC .464/.237) needs 12.4 MOA from 100y zero to 600y and 30.7 MOA to reach 1000y started at 2950fps. It has 4.4 MOA of wind drift at 600y and 8.9 MOA of wind drift at 1000 yards with 10 mph 90 degree wind.
175g Berger BT(.515/264) needs 13.4/32.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2800 fps. Wind is 4.2/8.3 MOA at 600/1000y.
185g Berger BT (.553/.283) needs 14.2/33.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2700 fps. Wind is 4.0/7.8 MOA at 600/1000.
Therefore, the 155.5g Fullbore is 1/1.4 MOA flatter than the 175g to 600/1000 and 0.2/0.6 MOA(1.2/6 inches) less good in the wind at 600/1000 yards. 1.8/2.4 MOA flatter and 0.4/1.1 MOA(2.4/11 inches) worse in the wind than the 185g at 600/1000 yards.
Wind skills win competitions and it would be hard to argue against the Berger 185g BT for the f/tr that you are talking about shooting.
Per Berger/JBM at sea level with standard conditions:
155.5g Berger Fullbore (BC .464/.237) needs 12.4 MOA from 100y zero to 600y and 30.7 MOA to reach 1000y started at 2950fps. It has 4.4 MOA of wind drift at 600y and 8.9 MOA of wind drift at 1000 yards with 10 mph 90 degree wind.
175g Berger BT(.515/264) needs 13.4/32.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2800 fps. Wind is 4.2/8.3 MOA at 600/1000y.
185g Berger BT (.553/.283) needs 14.2/33.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2700 fps. Wind is 4.0/7.8 MOA at 600/1000.
Therefore, the 155.5g Fullbore is 1/1.4 MOA flatter than the 175g to 600/1000 and 0.2/0.6 MOA(1.2/6 inches) less good in the wind at 600/1000 yards. 1.8/2.4 MOA flatter and 0.4/1.1 MOA(2.4/11 inches) worse in the wind than the 185g at 600/1000 yards.
Wind skills win competitions and it would be hard to argue against the Berger 185g BT for the f/tr that you are talking about shooting.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Per Berger/JBM at sea level with standard conditions:
155.5g Berger Fullbore (BC .464/.237) needs 12.4 MOA from 100y zero to 600y and 30.7 MOA to reach 1000y started at 2950fps. It has 4.4 MOA of wind drift at 600y and 8.9 MOA of wind drift at 1000 yards with 10 mph 90 degree wind.
175g Berger BT(.515/264) needs 13.4/32.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2800 fps. Wind is 4.2/8.3 MOA at 600/1000y.
185g Berger BT (.553/.283) needs 14.2/33.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2700 fps. Wind is 4.0/7.8 MOA at 600/1000.
Therefore, the 155.5g Fullbore is 1/1.4 MOA flatter than the 175g to 600/1000 and 0.2/0.6 MOA(1.2/6 inches) less good in the wind at 600/1000 yards. 1.8/2.4 MOA flatter and 0.4/1.1 MOA(2.4/11 inches) worse in the wind than the 185g at 600/1000 yards.
Wind skills win competitions and it would be hard to argue against the Berger 185g BT for the f/tr that you are talking about shooting.
</div></div> Run the numbers with a Berger 185 LR with a BC of 560 running at 2825 fps. With the 175 LR i get right at 2900 fps. I have shot many many matches against people shooting the 155. Every time i have been shooting inside of them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Per Berger/JBM at sea level with standard conditions:
155.5g Berger Fullbore (BC .464/.237) needs 12.4 MOA from 100y zero to 600y and 30.7 MOA to reach 1000y started at 2950fps. It has 4.4 MOA of wind drift at 600y and 8.9 MOA of wind drift at 1000 yards with 10 mph 90 degree wind.
175g Berger BT(.515/264) needs 13.4/32.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2800 fps. Wind is 4.2/8.3 MOA at 600/1000y.
185g Berger BT (.553/.283) needs 14.2/33.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2700 fps. Wind is 4.0/7.8 MOA at 600/1000.
Therefore, the 155.5g Fullbore is 1/1.4 MOA flatter than the 175g to 600/1000 and 0.2/0.6 MOA(1.2/6 inches) less good in the wind at 600/1000 yards. 1.8/2.4 MOA flatter and 0.4/1.1 MOA(2.4/11 inches) worse in the wind than the 185g at 600/1000 yards.
Wind skills win competitions and it would be hard to argue against the Berger 185g BT for the f/tr that you are talking about shooting.
</div></div> Run the numbers with a Berger 185 LR with a BC of 560 running at 2825 fps. With the 175 LR i get right at 2900 fps. I have shot many many matches against people shooting the 155. Every time i have been shooting inside of them.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Per Berger/JBM at sea level with standard conditions:
155.5g Berger Fullbore (BC .464/.237) needs 12.4 MOA from 100y zero to 600y and 30.7 MOA to reach 1000y started at 2950fps. It has 4.4 MOA of wind drift at 600y and 8.9 MOA of wind drift at 1000 yards with 10 mph 90 degree wind.
175g Berger BT(.515/264) needs 13.4/32.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2800 fps. Wind is 4.2/8.3 MOA at 600/1000y.
185g Berger BT (.553/.283) needs 14.2/33.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2700 fps. Wind is 4.0/7.8 MOA at 600/1000.
Therefore, the 155.5g Fullbore is 1/1.4 MOA flatter than the 175g to 600/1000 and 0.2/0.6 MOA(1.2/6 inches) less good in the wind at 600/1000 yards. 1.8/2.4 MOA flatter and 0.4/1.1 MOA(2.4/11 inches) worse in the wind than the 185g at 600/1000 yards.
Wind skills win competitions and it would be hard to argue against the Berger 185g BT for the f/tr that you are talking about shooting.
</div></div> Run the numbers with a Berger 185 LR with a BC of 560 running at 2825 fps. With the 175 LR i get right at 2900 fps. I have shot many many matches against people shooting the 155. Every time i have been shooting inside of them. </div></div>
I used 0.553 for the BC which is listed on the Berger website. Also, can you get the velocities that you list with the original poster's 26" barrel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Per Berger/JBM at sea level with standard conditions:
155.5g Berger Fullbore (BC .464/.237) needs 12.4 MOA from 100y zero to 600y and 30.7 MOA to reach 1000y started at 2950fps. It has 4.4 MOA of wind drift at 600y and 8.9 MOA of wind drift at 1000 yards with 10 mph 90 degree wind.
175g Berger BT(.515/264) needs 13.4/32.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2800 fps. Wind is 4.2/8.3 MOA at 600/1000y.
185g Berger BT (.553/.283) needs 14.2/33.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2700 fps. Wind is 4.0/7.8 MOA at 600/1000.
Therefore, the 155.5g Fullbore is 1/1.4 MOA flatter than the 175g to 600/1000 and 0.2/0.6 MOA(1.2/6 inches) less good in the wind at 600/1000 yards. 1.8/2.4 MOA flatter and 0.4/1.1 MOA(2.4/11 inches) worse in the wind than the 185g at 600/1000 yards.
Wind skills win competitions and it would be hard to argue against the Berger 185g BT for the f/tr that you are talking about shooting.
</div></div> Run the numbers with a Berger 185 LR with a BC of 560 running at 2825 fps. With the 175 LR i get right at 2900 fps. I have shot many many matches against people shooting the 155. Every time i have been shooting inside of them. </div></div>
I used 0.553 for the BC which is listed on the Berger website. Also, can you get the velocities that you list with the original poster's 26" barrel?
Re: 155 or 175 ?
id say its a tossup til you factor in terminal. then id go 175's. thats the way i figger it anyway. more lead on target makes me giggle.
id say its a tossup til you factor in terminal. then id go 175's. thats the way i figger it anyway. more lead on target makes me giggle.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Per Berger/JBM at sea level with standard conditions:
155.5g Berger Fullbore (BC .464/.237) needs 12.4 MOA from 100y zero to 600y and 30.7 MOA to reach 1000y started at 2950fps. It has 4.4 MOA of wind drift at 600y and 8.9 MOA of wind drift at 1000 yards with 10 mph 90 degree wind.
175g Berger BT(.515/264) needs 13.4/32.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2800 fps. Wind is 4.2/8.3 MOA at 600/1000y.
185g Berger BT (.553/.283) needs 14.2/33.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2700 fps. Wind is 4.0/7.8 MOA at 600/1000.
Therefore, the 155.5g Fullbore is 1/1.4 MOA flatter than the 175g to 600/1000 and 0.2/0.6 MOA(1.2/6 inches) less good in the wind at 600/1000 yards. 1.8/2.4 MOA flatter and 0.4/1.1 MOA(2.4/11 inches) worse in the wind than the 185g at 600/1000 yards.
Wind skills win competitions and it would be hard to argue against the Berger 185g BT for the f/tr that you are talking about shooting.
</div></div> Run the numbers with a Berger 185 LR with a BC of 560 running at 2825 fps. With the 175 LR i get right at 2900 fps. I have shot many many matches against people shooting the 155. Every time i have been shooting inside of them. </div></div>
What barrel length do you have?30"? 2900 fps from a 175 grain seems unlikely out of my 26" barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Per Berger/JBM at sea level with standard conditions:
155.5g Berger Fullbore (BC .464/.237) needs 12.4 MOA from 100y zero to 600y and 30.7 MOA to reach 1000y started at 2950fps. It has 4.4 MOA of wind drift at 600y and 8.9 MOA of wind drift at 1000 yards with 10 mph 90 degree wind.
175g Berger BT(.515/264) needs 13.4/32.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2800 fps. Wind is 4.2/8.3 MOA at 600/1000y.
185g Berger BT (.553/.283) needs 14.2/33.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2700 fps. Wind is 4.0/7.8 MOA at 600/1000.
Therefore, the 155.5g Fullbore is 1/1.4 MOA flatter than the 175g to 600/1000 and 0.2/0.6 MOA(1.2/6 inches) less good in the wind at 600/1000 yards. 1.8/2.4 MOA flatter and 0.4/1.1 MOA(2.4/11 inches) worse in the wind than the 185g at 600/1000 yards.
Wind skills win competitions and it would be hard to argue against the Berger 185g BT for the f/tr that you are talking about shooting.
</div></div> Run the numbers with a Berger 185 LR with a BC of 560 running at 2825 fps. With the 175 LR i get right at 2900 fps. I have shot many many matches against people shooting the 155. Every time i have been shooting inside of them. </div></div>
What barrel length do you have?30"? 2900 fps from a 175 grain seems unlikely out of my 26" barrel.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forwardeyes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Per Berger/JBM at sea level with standard conditions:
155.5g Berger Fullbore (BC .464/.237) needs 12.4 MOA from 100y zero to 600y and 30.7 MOA to reach 1000y started at 2950fps. It has 4.4 MOA of wind drift at 600y and 8.9 MOA of wind drift at 1000 yards with 10 mph 90 degree wind.
175g Berger BT(.515/264) needs 13.4/32.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2800 fps. Wind is 4.2/8.3 MOA at 600/1000y.
185g Berger BT (.553/.283) needs 14.2/33.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2700 fps. Wind is 4.0/7.8 MOA at 600/1000.
Therefore, the 155.5g Fullbore is 1/1.4 MOA flatter than the 175g to 600/1000 and 0.2/0.6 MOA(1.2/6 inches) less good in the wind at 600/1000 yards. 1.8/2.4 MOA flatter and 0.4/1.1 MOA(2.4/11 inches) worse in the wind than the 185g at 600/1000 yards.
Wind skills win competitions and it would be hard to argue against the Berger 185g BT for the f/tr that you are talking about shooting.
</div></div> Run the numbers with a Berger 185 LR with a BC of 560 running at 2825 fps. With the 175 LR i get right at 2900 fps. I have shot many many matches against people shooting the 155. Every time i have been shooting inside of them. </div></div>
What barrel length do you have?30"? 2900 fps from a 175 grain seems unlikely out of my 26" barrel. </div></div>
+1 that dont sound healthy, yer talkin 308 right?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forwardeyes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Per Berger/JBM at sea level with standard conditions:
155.5g Berger Fullbore (BC .464/.237) needs 12.4 MOA from 100y zero to 600y and 30.7 MOA to reach 1000y started at 2950fps. It has 4.4 MOA of wind drift at 600y and 8.9 MOA of wind drift at 1000 yards with 10 mph 90 degree wind.
175g Berger BT(.515/264) needs 13.4/32.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2800 fps. Wind is 4.2/8.3 MOA at 600/1000y.
185g Berger BT (.553/.283) needs 14.2/33.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2700 fps. Wind is 4.0/7.8 MOA at 600/1000.
Therefore, the 155.5g Fullbore is 1/1.4 MOA flatter than the 175g to 600/1000 and 0.2/0.6 MOA(1.2/6 inches) less good in the wind at 600/1000 yards. 1.8/2.4 MOA flatter and 0.4/1.1 MOA(2.4/11 inches) worse in the wind than the 185g at 600/1000 yards.
Wind skills win competitions and it would be hard to argue against the Berger 185g BT for the f/tr that you are talking about shooting.
</div></div> Run the numbers with a Berger 185 LR with a BC of 560 running at 2825 fps. With the 175 LR i get right at 2900 fps. I have shot many many matches against people shooting the 155. Every time i have been shooting inside of them. </div></div>
What barrel length do you have?30"? 2900 fps from a 175 grain seems unlikely out of my 26" barrel. </div></div>
+1 that dont sound healthy, yer talkin 308 right?
Re: 155 or 175 ?
nesikabay runs some stuff that is cutting edge, I'm not giving away any of his secrets but remember when people started to hear about gain twist barrels, this little guy from Nocona Texas was using them for a couple years before anybody else even heard of them, he's not bullshiitin about his speeds either
nesikabay runs some stuff that is cutting edge, I'm not giving away any of his secrets but remember when people started to hear about gain twist barrels, this little guy from Nocona Texas was using them for a couple years before anybody else even heard of them, he's not bullshiitin about his speeds either
Re: 155 or 175 ?
Doublebarrel: I have some 155 Gr RBT 308 Alum balistic tip 14 ogive bullets that you can try, and let me know how they shoot for you if your interested. Pm me and I will send them. Snipr62
Doublebarrel: I have some 155 Gr RBT 308 Alum balistic tip 14 ogive bullets that you can try, and let me know how they shoot for you if your interested. Pm me and I will send them. Snipr62
Re: 155 or 175 ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nesikabay runs some stuff that is cutting edge, I'm not giving away any of his secrets but remember when people started to hear about gain twist barrels, this little guy from Nocona Texas was using them for a couple years before anybody else even heard of them, he's not bullshiitin about his speeds either </div></div>
I am not arguing his velocities, I just am not sure if the original poster can get those type of velocities out of his 26 inch barrel. That is why I posted the velocities that I did.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nesikabay runs some stuff that is cutting edge, I'm not giving away any of his secrets but remember when people started to hear about gain twist barrels, this little guy from Nocona Texas was using them for a couple years before anybody else even heard of them, he's not bullshiitin about his speeds either </div></div>
I am not arguing his velocities, I just am not sure if the original poster can get those type of velocities out of his 26 inch barrel. That is why I posted the velocities that I did.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
The 175 SMK and 178 A-Max have more retained energy and are much easier on the barrel.
The 155s are great, but they can eat the throat due to the hotter loadings. (3,000 fps is pretty common.)
It really comes down to two things:
- Do you care about how much mileage you get out of a barrel?
- Do you care how hard it hits when it gets on target?
Not to mention the price difference in the projectiles themselves.
FWIW,
The 155 Scenars are very popular with higher end competitors such as George Gardner (Owner of GA Precision) because the do offer marginally better performance in competition.
I use the 175 SMKs and am quite happy with them.
Personally I don't think the "Juice is worth the squeeze" when speaking of the 155 Scenar.
YMMV
The 175 SMK and 178 A-Max have more retained energy and are much easier on the barrel.
The 155s are great, but they can eat the throat due to the hotter loadings. (3,000 fps is pretty common.)
It really comes down to two things:
- Do you care about how much mileage you get out of a barrel?
- Do you care how hard it hits when it gets on target?
Not to mention the price difference in the projectiles themselves.
FWIW,
The 155 Scenars are very popular with higher end competitors such as George Gardner (Owner of GA Precision) because the do offer marginally better performance in competition.
I use the 175 SMKs and am quite happy with them.
Personally I don't think the "Juice is worth the squeeze" when speaking of the 155 Scenar.
YMMV
Re: 155 or 175 ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 175 SMK and 178 A-Max have more retained energy and are much easier on the barrel.
The 155s are great, but they can eat the throat due to the hotter loadings. (3,000 fps is pretty common.)
It really comes down to two things:
- Do you care about how much mileage you get out of a barrel?
- Do you care how hard it hits when it gets on target?
Not to mention the price difference in the projectiles themselves.
FWIW,
The 155 Scenars are very popular with higher end competitors such as George Gardner (Owner of GA Precision) because the do offer marginally better performance in competition.
I use the 175 SMKs and am quite happy with them.
Personally I don't think the "Juice is worth the squeeze" when speaking of the 155 Scenar.
YMMV</div></div>
Nicely written Phil,...slinging the 155's at near 3,000fps only confirms that for 1k shooting its probably the wrong cartridge and bullet weight. Litz seems to agree and advocates either going far heavier or different calibre.
175/190/208 will certainly do the job and take the wind well. As you rightly pointed out all with les stress on the action and gretaer barrel life.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 175 SMK and 178 A-Max have more retained energy and are much easier on the barrel.
The 155s are great, but they can eat the throat due to the hotter loadings. (3,000 fps is pretty common.)
It really comes down to two things:
- Do you care about how much mileage you get out of a barrel?
- Do you care how hard it hits when it gets on target?
Not to mention the price difference in the projectiles themselves.
FWIW,
The 155 Scenars are very popular with higher end competitors such as George Gardner (Owner of GA Precision) because the do offer marginally better performance in competition.
I use the 175 SMKs and am quite happy with them.
Personally I don't think the "Juice is worth the squeeze" when speaking of the 155 Scenar.
YMMV</div></div>
Nicely written Phil,...slinging the 155's at near 3,000fps only confirms that for 1k shooting its probably the wrong cartridge and bullet weight. Litz seems to agree and advocates either going far heavier or different calibre.
175/190/208 will certainly do the job and take the wind well. As you rightly pointed out all with les stress on the action and gretaer barrel life.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
When I got my 26" Krieger Surgeon, I was trying to decide between the 155's and the 185's. After testing at distance in the wind, the 185's are a no brainer.
It's a whole lot easier to estimate/range distance than to predict/outguess changing wind conditions.
When I got my 26" Krieger Surgeon, I was trying to decide between the 155's and the 185's. After testing at distance in the wind, the 185's are a no brainer.
It's a whole lot easier to estimate/range distance than to predict/outguess changing wind conditions.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forwardeyes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Per Berger/JBM at sea level with standard conditions:
155.5g Berger Fullbore (BC .464/.237) needs 12.4 MOA from 100y zero to 600y and 30.7 MOA to reach 1000y started at 2950fps. It has 4.4 MOA of wind drift at 600y and 8.9 MOA of wind drift at 1000 yards with 10 mph 90 degree wind.
175g Berger BT(.515/264) needs 13.4/32.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2800 fps. Wind is 4.2/8.3 MOA at 600/1000y.
185g Berger BT (.553/.283) needs 14.2/33.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2700 fps. Wind is 4.0/7.8 MOA at 600/1000.
Therefore, the 155.5g Fullbore is 1/1.4 MOA flatter than the 175g to 600/1000 and 0.2/0.6 MOA(1.2/6 inches) less good in the wind at 600/1000 yards. 1.8/2.4 MOA flatter and 0.4/1.1 MOA(2.4/11 inches) worse in the wind than the 185g at 600/1000 yards.
Wind skills win competitions and it would be hard to argue against the Berger 185g BT for the f/tr that you are talking about shooting.
</div></div> Run the numbers with a Berger 185 LR with a BC of 560 running at 2825 fps. With the 175 LR i get right at 2900 fps. I have shot many many matches against people shooting the 155. Every time i have been shooting inside of them. </div></div>
What barrel length do you have?30"? 2900 fps from a 175 grain seems unlikely out of my 26" barrel. </div></div>
+1 that dont sound healthy, yer talkin 308 right? </div></div> Yes i shoot a 308. At one time with 1 barrel i was shooting 175s at 2925fps. I had several snipershide memberrs there . And no it was not my chronograph. They thought the same thing thee is no way so i used there chrono.. Double barrel I see your in Oklahoma. Im in north Texas send me a PM ill help you all i can. As far as a 308 goes yes i run them hot very hot. Thats what my Barrels are made to do. 1 thing i would like to add is i go through several barrels a year. It might sound bad but to me a barrel is like underware there made to change. Hell if i get a new barrel and for some reason dont like it hell ill swap it out. I have a closet full of 308 barrels
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forwardeyes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Per Berger/JBM at sea level with standard conditions:
155.5g Berger Fullbore (BC .464/.237) needs 12.4 MOA from 100y zero to 600y and 30.7 MOA to reach 1000y started at 2950fps. It has 4.4 MOA of wind drift at 600y and 8.9 MOA of wind drift at 1000 yards with 10 mph 90 degree wind.
175g Berger BT(.515/264) needs 13.4/32.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2800 fps. Wind is 4.2/8.3 MOA at 600/1000y.
185g Berger BT (.553/.283) needs 14.2/33.1 MOA at 600/1000 started at 2700 fps. Wind is 4.0/7.8 MOA at 600/1000.
Therefore, the 155.5g Fullbore is 1/1.4 MOA flatter than the 175g to 600/1000 and 0.2/0.6 MOA(1.2/6 inches) less good in the wind at 600/1000 yards. 1.8/2.4 MOA flatter and 0.4/1.1 MOA(2.4/11 inches) worse in the wind than the 185g at 600/1000 yards.
Wind skills win competitions and it would be hard to argue against the Berger 185g BT for the f/tr that you are talking about shooting.
</div></div> Run the numbers with a Berger 185 LR with a BC of 560 running at 2825 fps. With the 175 LR i get right at 2900 fps. I have shot many many matches against people shooting the 155. Every time i have been shooting inside of them. </div></div>
What barrel length do you have?30"? 2900 fps from a 175 grain seems unlikely out of my 26" barrel. </div></div>
+1 that dont sound healthy, yer talkin 308 right? </div></div> Yes i shoot a 308. At one time with 1 barrel i was shooting 175s at 2925fps. I had several snipershide memberrs there . And no it was not my chronograph. They thought the same thing thee is no way so i used there chrono.. Double barrel I see your in Oklahoma. Im in north Texas send me a PM ill help you all i can. As far as a 308 goes yes i run them hot very hot. Thats what my Barrels are made to do. 1 thing i would like to add is i go through several barrels a year. It might sound bad but to me a barrel is like underware there made to change. Hell if i get a new barrel and for some reason dont like it hell ill swap it out. I have a closet full of 308 barrels
Re: 155 or 175 ?
One of my 308 rifles favorite loads is using Lapua brass and 185 BT's getting 2830f/s. No pressure problems.
Lesley's statements are true.
One of my 308 rifles favorite loads is using Lapua brass and 185 BT's getting 2830f/s. No pressure problems.
Lesley's statements are true.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try some of the new 178 BTHP from Hornady. With their .530 BC they should perform well at distance and from a 26" barrel 2725-2750fps should be easily obtainable with Varget. Worth a try. </div></div>
Big +1!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try some of the new 178 BTHP from Hornady. With their .530 BC they should perform well at distance and from a 26" barrel 2725-2750fps should be easily obtainable with Varget. Worth a try. </div></div>
Big +1!
Re: 155 or 175 ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try some of the new 178 BTHP from Hornady. With their .530 BC they should perform well at distance and from a 26" barrel 2725-2750fps should be easily obtainable with Varget. Worth a try. </div></div>
Big +1! </div></div> Hey Chad youve seen my 308s shoot and know what they are running. Im shooting CKAs 308 now. How close am i on the velocity
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try some of the new 178 BTHP from Hornady. With their .530 BC they should perform well at distance and from a 26" barrel 2725-2750fps should be easily obtainable with Varget. Worth a try. </div></div>
Big +1! </div></div> Hey Chad youve seen my 308s shoot and know what they are running. Im shooting CKAs 308 now. How close am i on the velocity
Re: 155 or 175 ?
Nesikabay those figures are mighty impressive
Nesikabay those figures are mighty impressive
Re: 155 or 175 ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try some of the new 178 BTHP from Hornady. With their .530 BC they should perform well at distance and from a 26" barrel 2725-2750fps should be easily obtainable with Varget. Worth a try. </div></div>
Big +1! </div></div> Hey Chad youve seen my 308s shoot and know what they are running. Im shooting CKAs 308 now. How close am i on the velocity </div></div>
Yes, you push them faster than anyone I know. Don't know how, either!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try some of the new 178 BTHP from Hornady. With their .530 BC they should perform well at distance and from a 26" barrel 2725-2750fps should be easily obtainable with Varget. Worth a try. </div></div>
Big +1! </div></div> Hey Chad youve seen my 308s shoot and know what they are running. Im shooting CKAs 308 now. How close am i on the velocity </div></div>
Yes, you push them faster than anyone I know. Don't know how, either!!
Re: 155 or 175 ?
I wanted SO BAD to shoot the 155 lapua's. Smaller, faster, ...sexier.
Unfortunately, the big, slow, boring 175 SMK's shot MUCH better for me in my .308's....all the way from 100y to 1000y.
Please don't get caught up in what I did at first....that faster is always better.
Make sure and give the 175's a fair chance....they've shot great in every .308 rifle I've come across.
I wanted SO BAD to shoot the 155 lapua's. Smaller, faster, ...sexier.
Unfortunately, the big, slow, boring 175 SMK's shot MUCH better for me in my .308's....all the way from 100y to 1000y.
Please don't get caught up in what I did at first....that faster is always better.
Make sure and give the 175's a fair chance....they've shot great in every .308 rifle I've come across.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try some of the new 178 BTHP from Hornady. With their .530 BC they should perform well at distance and from a 26" barrel 2725-2750fps should be easily obtainable with Varget. Worth a try. </div></div>
That is about as fast as I could get my 168's with 46 grains until I started seeing pressure with a new lot of Varget. Or the Chronograph was off.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try some of the new 178 BTHP from Hornady. With their .530 BC they should perform well at distance and from a 26" barrel 2725-2750fps should be easily obtainable with Varget. Worth a try. </div></div>
That is about as fast as I could get my 168's with 46 grains until I started seeing pressure with a new lot of Varget. Or the Chronograph was off.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
my. GAP m40a3 shoots the 155s at 1000yds with 8.3 mils vs. my 175smk at 10.8 mils.... I'd like to think the 155 are the way to go especially with ukd shots. but the lineage improvements are only a couple of clicks.better than the 175s...so it arguable which is better if u can't push the 155s at least over 2900fps
my. GAP m40a3 shoots the 155s at 1000yds with 8.3 mils vs. my 175smk at 10.8 mils.... I'd like to think the 155 are the way to go especially with ukd shots. but the lineage improvements are only a couple of clicks.better than the 175s...so it arguable which is better if u can't push the 155s at least over 2900fps
Re: 155 or 175 ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I would take a look at the Berger LR 175 or the LR 185. They both beat the 155. I shoot the 185 in my F/TR rig. My velocity is right at 2825fps. </div></div>
Nesikabay, what powder are you using for the 185gr?
Thanks,
Nervous
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I would take a look at the Berger LR 175 or the LR 185. They both beat the 155. I shoot the 185 in my F/TR rig. My velocity is right at 2825fps. </div></div>
Nesikabay, what powder are you using for the 185gr?
Thanks,
Nervous
Re: 155 or 175 ?
a bunch of RL 15
a bunch of RL 15
Re: 155 or 175 ?
Nesikabay, what seating depth are you using for the Berger 185gr BT LR?
Nesikabay, what seating depth are you using for the Berger 185gr BT LR?
Re: 155 or 175 ?
I suggest trying both if that is practical.
175 SMKs worked well for me, but I was shooting them at 2650fps. I've come to the conclusion that the heaviest bullet in a class (155-175 for example for 308) tends to combat the wind best. This is due to the bullet having a higher sectional density which often corresponds to a higher BC. Of course the heavier bullet will take more elevation adjustments, but that is deterministic (known).
Take a look at Bryan Litz's book "Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting" if you haven't. He discusses how to compare two (or more) prospective bullets based on your needs. Or you could always compare the outputs for wind drift from a ballistic calculator.
I suggest trying both if that is practical.
175 SMKs worked well for me, but I was shooting them at 2650fps. I've come to the conclusion that the heaviest bullet in a class (155-175 for example for 308) tends to combat the wind best. This is due to the bullet having a higher sectional density which often corresponds to a higher BC. Of course the heavier bullet will take more elevation adjustments, but that is deterministic (known).
Take a look at Bryan Litz's book "Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting" if you haven't. He discusses how to compare two (or more) prospective bullets based on your needs. Or you could always compare the outputs for wind drift from a ballistic calculator.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
I worked up the best load for each, than shot them at 300 yards and compared....It was so close that I stuck with the 175's because they are cheaper to shoot. I am currrently pushing them at 2720 with 45 gr Varget and no pressure signs in my TRG22.
I too was drawn by the sleek sexy 155 but chose the big wind batteling 175.
Good luck on your choice.
SScott
I worked up the best load for each, than shot them at 300 yards and compared....It was so close that I stuck with the 175's because they are cheaper to shoot. I am currrently pushing them at 2720 with 45 gr Varget and no pressure signs in my TRG22.
I too was drawn by the sleek sexy 155 but chose the big wind batteling 175.
Good luck on your choice.
SScott
Re: 155 or 175 ?
+1. I've used the 175 SMK for several years now and I'm very happy with them. They're very reliable and accurate from as close as you can shoot all the way out to 1000yds (if you do your part, of course).
And the increased barrel life as compared to the 155s is a plus in my book.
Bear
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 175 SMK and 178 A-Max have more retained energy and are much easier on the barrel.
The 155s are great, but they can eat the throat due to the hotter loadings. (3,000 fps is pretty common.)
It really comes down to two things:
- Do you care about how much mileage you get out of a barrel?
- Do you care how hard it hits when it gets on target?
Not to mention the price difference in the projectiles themselves.
FWIW,
The 155 Scenars are very popular with higher end competitors such as George Gardner (Owner of GA Precision) because the do offer marginally better performance in competition.
I use the 175 SMKs and am quite happy with them.
Personally I don't think the "Juice is worth the squeeze" when speaking of the 155 Scenar.
YMMV </div></div>
+1. I've used the 175 SMK for several years now and I'm very happy with them. They're very reliable and accurate from as close as you can shoot all the way out to 1000yds (if you do your part, of course).
And the increased barrel life as compared to the 155s is a plus in my book.
Bear
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 175 SMK and 178 A-Max have more retained energy and are much easier on the barrel.
The 155s are great, but they can eat the throat due to the hotter loadings. (3,000 fps is pretty common.)
It really comes down to two things:
- Do you care about how much mileage you get out of a barrel?
- Do you care how hard it hits when it gets on target?
Not to mention the price difference in the projectiles themselves.
FWIW,
The 155 Scenars are very popular with higher end competitors such as George Gardner (Owner of GA Precision) because the do offer marginally better performance in competition.
I use the 175 SMKs and am quite happy with them.
Personally I don't think the "Juice is worth the squeeze" when speaking of the 155 Scenar.
YMMV </div></div>
Re: 155 or 175 ?
Another plus of the 175 over the 155 is that the 175smk is shorter than the 155 scenar... a big plus if your trying to load to mag length in AI mags.
Another plus of the 175 over the 155 is that the 175smk is shorter than the 155 scenar... a big plus if your trying to load to mag length in AI mags.
Re: 155 or 175 ?
I suggest you try both and do a work up and ladder test to see what your riffle likes. Every riffle is different. Personally I like the 175 right now as that is what my stick likes. However I may buy a new stick tomorrow and end up shooting 155, 185, or even 208. I let the rifle tell me what it likes. There is no reason to force a load as you will never be happy with your stick. Try working up different bullets with a build up of powder levels then move on to seating in and out of the lands.
Both are great choices and seem to be the top choice for many for these distances.
Just my .02 worth
I suggest you try both and do a work up and ladder test to see what your riffle likes. Every riffle is different. Personally I like the 175 right now as that is what my stick likes. However I may buy a new stick tomorrow and end up shooting 155, 185, or even 208. I let the rifle tell me what it likes. There is no reason to force a load as you will never be happy with your stick. Try working up different bullets with a build up of powder levels then move on to seating in and out of the lands.
Both are great choices and seem to be the top choice for many for these distances.
Just my .02 worth
Re: 155 or 175 ?
Previously I've used the 175smk as I believe they buck the wind better at 1,000 than any 155. With that said, just today I picked-up 3,000 185gr Berger BTs. The Mks will only be used on the short line from now on.
Previously I've used the 175smk as I believe they buck the wind better at 1,000 than any 155. With that said, just today I picked-up 3,000 185gr Berger BTs. The Mks will only be used on the short line from now on.
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