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168 FGMM unlocked

justdave

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Jan 10, 2010
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After doing a good deal of searching, the only thing I figured out is there seems to be some contraversey over the exact recipe for this load. Because I'm cheap, and my LR-308 can do 1/2 MOA with this load, I put a lot of time into figuring it out. I believe I have done it. First,like many others have done, I pulled and measured the charges for an entire box of 20. The avg. was 42.5, a few were 42.3, none exceded 42.6. Based on this and the advertised velocity, a look at the Sierra data will indicate IMR 4064. Next, I pooled the powder and measured the length and circumference of 50 random kernals. I also weighed 10 samples of 100 kernals then reloaded with that powder making each charge 42.5 grs. The length of the kernals always fell between .080 and .083, the circumference was a constant .033, and every sample of 100 kernals weighed 2.6 grs. With this data, I went to the local reloading supply shop (owned by a friend) and set up in the back and started measuring samples. IMR 4064 was indeed a match. I loaded 20 rounds with 4064,fed match primer, fed brass, and chrono'd, the velocity and POI were an exact match. I do hope I've helped someone or maybe answered an often discussed question. I was going to wait for a rainy day to do this but, I just had to know. The average velocity for my REPR is 2050 fps, 80 deg F, 4900' DA with this load. I hope it will modify with the same results in better brass.
 
Re: 168 FGMM unlocked

I suspect folks are gonba tell you the powder in the FGMM load is a custom blend and not just IMR4064. I don't know one way or the other. I'm glad to hear you've found a good load for your rifle you can make yourself though!
 
Re: 168 FGMM unlocked

Frankly, I expected a "house blend." I was suprised when 4064 was a perfect match by measurment, and was not satisfied untill I hit the chrono.
 
After doing a good deal of searching, the only thing I figured out is there seems to be some contraversey over the exact recipe for this load. Because I'm cheap, and my LR-308 can do 1/2 MOA with this load, I put a lot of time into figuring it out. I believe I have done it. First,like many others have done, I pulled and measured the charges for an entire box of 20. The avg. was 42.5, a few were 42.3, none exceded 42.6. Based on this and the advertised velocity, a look at the Sierra data will indicate IMR 4064. Next, I pooled the powder and measured the length and circumference of 50 random kernals. I also weighed 10 samples of 100 kernals then reloaded with that powder making each charge 42.5 grs. The length of the kernals always fell between .080 and .083, the circumference was a constant .033, and every sample of 100 kernals weighed 2.6 grs. With this data, I went to the local reloading supply shop (owned by a friend) and set up in the back and started measuring samples. IMR 4064 was indeed a match. I loaded 20 rounds with 4064,fed match primer, fed brass, and chrono'd, the velocity and POI were an exact match. I do hope I've helped someone or maybe answered an often discussed question. I was going to wait for a rainy day to do this but, I just had to know. The average velocity for my REPR is 2050 fps, 80 deg F, 4900' DA with this load. I hope it will modify with the same results in better brass.

Wonderful information, Dave!

I'll definitely have to start realoading soon!...
 
Nearly a 2 year old thread... but yes, the charge would be IMR 4064 at around 42.7 to 42.8 grains--or very close to that these days. We sleuthed the 175 GMM load and found the same charge Federal is using of 4064 in the Mk316 Mod 0 load--41.7 to 41.8 grains.

Dan
 
Nearly a 2 year old thread... but yes, the charge would be IMR 4064 at around 42.7 to 42.8 grains--or very close to that these days. We sleuthed the 175 GMM load and found the same charge Federal is using of 4064 in the Mk316 Mod 0 load--41.7 to 41.8 grains.

Dan

justdave introduced me to this Forum, and directed me to this particular thread for some questions I had.

I thought that acknowledging it would be basic courtesy.

I genuinely appreciate the information, and am in the process of collating information on reloading equipment.
 
justdave introduced me to this Forum, and directed me to this particular thread for some questions I had.

I thought that acknowledging it would be basic courtesy.

I genuinely appreciate the information, and am in the process of collating information on reloading equipment.

IMR 4064 is already a pretty popular powder, especially for 308 medium weight loads, so it's really no surprise.

People have often pondered how Federal could have created a load that shoots so superbly in so many different rifles across the domestic/foreign consumer markets.

Obviously, the 168gr SMK is an inherently accuracte bullet, but there are lots of good bullets that have been loaded up into ammo that have not had the stellar result that the FGMM 168s have enjoyed for literally decades.

The 210Ms are consistent, powder: like IMR 4064, Varget, or RL-15 could be part of it, as could the velocity node that the cartridge is loaded up to hit; however, I've read that some surmise that it's the softness of the brass, especially in the neck area, that might be responsible for the consistent performance of the round.

By being softer in the neck area, the release of the bullet is gentle and consistent from shot to shot. I've not racked my brain over it, but it's interesting food for thought.

Chris
 
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I wonder how we'll it would work if I used IMR 4895... Got a ton of Varget, 4895 and H336. I don't want to go and buy another tub when I already have a ton of powder.
 
LC brass has near identical volume as Federal, so the load recipe should be similar. The charge weights of IMR 4064 are far enough below max that you'll be safe just going straight to those charges to test accuracy (42.8 grains with 168's, and 41.8 grains with 175's).

My "go to" load with 168's and IMR 4895 is 43.6 grains. That's in Winchester brass. In FC or LC use 43.2 grains. Work up with this 4895 load from 42 grains.

Dan
 
Dan what rifle do you shoot? I've always been curious. Your numbers always seem close to a lot of guys finding their loads with factory actions like my self.

Interested to see your stick.
 
Just factory Savages... I have a first issue LE2B (McMillan stocked from factory, 26" barrel, Accutrigger), and an older 110FP with a 24" barrel, which runs as fast as the 26" LE2B. I've glass bedded the LE2B, and the 110FP is in a Choate tactical...


These rifles both shooter better than they have a right to. :)
 
I shoot the Savages too, mostly, 10 FP's in 223 AND A 5r 308, a 110 in 300 WM with CBI barrel installed, best shooters I ever had, cheapest too. Thanks for the info Dan.
 
Just factory Savages... I have a first issue LE2B (McMillan stocked from factory, 26" barrel, Accutrigger), and an older 110FP with a 24" barrel, which runs as fast as the 26" LE2B. I've glass bedded the LE2B, and the 110FP is in a Choate tactical...

These rifles both shooter better than they have a right to. :)

SavageZeissFull.jpg


Great minds think alike.

Chris
 
... I've read that some surmise that it's the softness of the brass, especially in the neck area, that might be responsible for the consistent performance of the round.

By being softer in the neck area, the release of the bullet is gentle and consistent from shot to shot. I've not racked my brain over it, but it's interesting food for thought.

Chris
There could very well be something to that. I have read several posts on this site by people who insist that annealing brass every shot is critical to accuracy. I just bought my dream annealing machine and it is so easy to anneal with it that I might as well anneal every time. New Page 1
 
I wonder how we'll it would work if I used IMR 4895... Got a ton of Varget, 4895 and H336. I don't want to go and buy another tub when I already have a ton of powder.

Man yeah! I have always had fantastic results with 168's and H-4895. So have many others. A well known load is 41.5gn and a 168 at mag length. This is very well known load in M1A circles, but it flat out shoots in every 308 I've fired it in. It's just like FGMM in that regard. H-4895 meters far better than 4064 to boot.
 
also tagged

I'm currently loading Win brass/primer with 43.6 grains of 4064 pushing a 168 Sierra

maybe I will work up another node using 42.5 as the medium
 
One thing about IMR 4064 in the .308--it's very difficult to choose a charge weight that won't shoot tight. Yes, the scatter nodes will be there, but in many rifles they're small too. It's a good powder for the cartridge, no doubt.

An aside... I think it's amazing that no one has bugged this thread with the "Factory ammo has proprietary powder, special blends. You'll shoot your eye out" mantra... maybe the community is getting wiser. :)

Dan
 
I know were talking 168's but FWIW, with 175 smk's I have found 43-43.2 grains of varget (with winchester and lapua brass) to replecate FGMM in several of my 308's. Velocity in my 18 and 20" barrels is around 2490, 21.75 custom barrel and a 26" rem factory varmint around 2610 and in a 26" winchester 2630. Tight ES and SD in all.

As a side note... A grain and a half more puts me into the next node and gains about 50fps in the short barrels and 70 to 100fps the the others...
 
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Tsk, Tsk Tsk,

Reading this thread than realizing...

I have brand new dies, +/- 2000 pieces of clean GI brass, 2,000 168 grn CC's, 6000 LRP's and 8 pounds of 4064 on hand. Im almost there except for the proprietary pixie powder used when loading FGMM.

I guess my 1.5 MOA skills will have to make due without the magical dust and Ill suffer with 1 MOA +/- ammo.

Thank you for the info provided in this thread.
 
I will roll along with this topic. My LR-308 loves this round and is one of the reasons for getting into reloading.
So, does Hogdons or IMR make that Pixie Dust?
 
I wonder how we'll it would work if I used IMR 4895... Got a ton of Varget, 4895 and H336. I don't want to go and buy another tub when I already have a ton of powder.

I use 38 grains of IMR 4895 in Lapua brass in both my TRG 22 308 and AIAW 308. In the TRG22 the load will consistently produce 5 shot 100 yard groups in the 0.40 moa range with some groups at 0.30 moa. In the AIAW the groups run on average 0.35 moa with some groups under 0.20 moa my best groups was 0.179 moa. I worked the load from 37 grains to 42 rains and the 38 grain shot the best groups with both rifles and in my semi auto's using segregated Federal and LC brass ( LMT MWS POF P-308 and DPMS SASS ) will produce groups 1 moa or better depending on the rifle..