16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
- Thread starter DrDeath
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Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
I built a 16" AR about as precision as you can build an AR.
It was a tack driver. I mean it was as accurate as a lot of bolt guns. If it was not for the lower MV it would have done fine at long range. (Only lacking energy )
I killed several deer with it. My sweetest memory with it is me and a girl were sitting under a cedar tree. A deer steeped out of the woods on the other side of the field. I handed her the laser. She got an average of 403. I corrected for elevation and pulled 2 mils into the wind and squeezed off the round. The bullet impacted within 2" of POA. The deer ran about 35 yards straight towards us and folded. Thats a long range for a little 65 GameKing out of a short barrel.
so yeah a short rilfe will do it, just know your pills will be running out of gas far quicker due to the reduced MV.
Sorry, no pics. My AR has been reconfigured three times since then.
I built a 16" AR about as precision as you can build an AR.
It was a tack driver. I mean it was as accurate as a lot of bolt guns. If it was not for the lower MV it would have done fine at long range. (Only lacking energy )
I killed several deer with it. My sweetest memory with it is me and a girl were sitting under a cedar tree. A deer steeped out of the woods on the other side of the field. I handed her the laser. She got an average of 403. I corrected for elevation and pulled 2 mils into the wind and squeezed off the round. The bullet impacted within 2" of POA. The deer ran about 35 yards straight towards us and folded. Thats a long range for a little 65 GameKing out of a short barrel.
so yeah a short rilfe will do it, just know your pills will be running out of gas far quicker due to the reduced MV.
Sorry, no pics. My AR has been reconfigured three times since then.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
bullets come out much slowly ... 500-600 mt 'll be your limit... i think is a bad idea
bullets come out much slowly ... 500-600 mt 'll be your limit... i think is a bad idea
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DrDeath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone have a 16inch or shorty barreled Sniper rifle? I was thinking of cutting my barrel down for handiness , and wanted to know if anyone has done this? Please post some pics of yours..Thanks</div></div>
if you need a 16" precision rifle you can build a 16" AR that will shoot as well as a bolt. I wouldn't cut a bolt gun any lower than 18".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DrDeath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone have a 16inch or shorty barreled Sniper rifle? I was thinking of cutting my barrel down for handiness , and wanted to know if anyone has done this? Please post some pics of yours..Thanks</div></div>
if you need a 16" precision rifle you can build a 16" AR that will shoot as well as a bolt. I wouldn't cut a bolt gun any lower than 18".
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
I have a 16.25 308 in an AICS 2.0 good out to about 700. If I were to do it all over I would probably go 18 or 20. Don't get me wrong it's a tack driver but it has it's limitations.
I have a 16.25 308 in an AICS 2.0 good out to about 700. If I were to do it all over I would probably go 18 or 20. Don't get me wrong it's a tack driver but it has it's limitations.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DrDeath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone have a 16inch or shorty barreled Sniper rifle? I was thinking of cutting my barrel down for handiness , and wanted to know if anyone has done this? Please post some pics of yours..Thanks</div></div>
if you need a 16" precision rifle you can build a 16" AR that will shoot as well as a bolt. I wouldn't cut a bolt gun any lower than 18". </div></div>
+1, I would stay with 18 as a minimum for a 270 or larger platform. Personally, I like a sweet spot around 20" or so. If you go shorter than that, usually you have a specific need in mind such as adding a surefire muzzle break or something like that which will then increase the overall length.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DrDeath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone have a 16inch or shorty barreled Sniper rifle? I was thinking of cutting my barrel down for handiness , and wanted to know if anyone has done this? Please post some pics of yours..Thanks</div></div>
if you need a 16" precision rifle you can build a 16" AR that will shoot as well as a bolt. I wouldn't cut a bolt gun any lower than 18". </div></div>
+1, I would stay with 18 as a minimum for a 270 or larger platform. Personally, I like a sweet spot around 20" or so. If you go shorter than that, usually you have a specific need in mind such as adding a surefire muzzle break or something like that which will then increase the overall length.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle!
Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle!
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
I don't think it a bad idea as long as you know what your getting in to. I plan in building one real soon. I'm probably going to end up with a 16.25 bbl for a .308. Down the road I will be adding a AICS 2.0 to make it as small as possible. This won't be my comp gun but I think it could be very handy. If a 308 will work in a 14" gas gun why wouldn't it work on a 16" bolt gun. Like I said it by no means will be a long range rifle but I already have one for that.
I would love to see what others have done with similar set ups
I don't think it a bad idea as long as you know what your getting in to. I plan in building one real soon. I'm probably going to end up with a 16.25 bbl for a .308. Down the road I will be adding a AICS 2.0 to make it as small as possible. This won't be my comp gun but I think it could be very handy. If a 308 will work in a 14" gas gun why wouldn't it work on a 16" bolt gun. Like I said it by no means will be a long range rifle but I already have one for that.
I would love to see what others have done with similar set ups
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle! </div></div>
I could not disagree more with the wording "precision" perhaps precision at 1000+ yards probably but precision at 100, 200, 300.....600 I bet would be no different.
may be semantics but.....I say rock the shorty!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle! </div></div>
I could not disagree more with the wording "precision" perhaps precision at 1000+ yards probably but precision at 100, 200, 300.....600 I bet would be no different.
may be semantics but.....I say rock the shorty!
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: modifier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you want is a folding stock.
Neither a short barrel nor a folding stock make it a "sniper rifle" though. </div></div>
What you NEED is a DTA
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: modifier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you want is a folding stock.
Neither a short barrel nor a folding stock make it a "sniper rifle" though. </div></div>
What you NEED is a DTA
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle! </div></div>
I could not disagree more with the wording "precision" perhaps precision at 1000+ yards probably but precision at 100, 200, 300.....600 I bet would be no different.
may be semantics but.....I say rock the shorty! </div></div>
Well you can bring out your 16" rifle and Ill run a 24" and we will see who shoots tighter groups! I just think if your going to go 16 why not get a gas gun? They seem to run the best at 16.5 out to 800. You would be losing a lot of velocity from the 20-24" guns down to a 16".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle! </div></div>
I could not disagree more with the wording "precision" perhaps precision at 1000+ yards probably but precision at 100, 200, 300.....600 I bet would be no different.
may be semantics but.....I say rock the shorty! </div></div>
Well you can bring out your 16" rifle and Ill run a 24" and we will see who shoots tighter groups! I just think if your going to go 16 why not get a gas gun? They seem to run the best at 16.5 out to 800. You would be losing a lot of velocity from the 20-24" guns down to a 16".
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: modifier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you want is a folding stock.
Neither a short barrel nor a folding stock make it a "sniper rifle" though. </div></div>
What you NEED is a DTA </div></div>
Ha... good point.
For the benefit of the OP: http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/
OAL on a 22" .308 DTA is 31.5". OAL on a 20" .308 AI folding stock is 31" w/o a brake. Either one is better (IMO) than a 16" and shorter, too, unless you did a 16" on a folder.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: modifier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you want is a folding stock.
Neither a short barrel nor a folding stock make it a "sniper rifle" though. </div></div>
What you NEED is a DTA </div></div>
Ha... good point.
For the benefit of the OP: http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/
OAL on a 22" .308 DTA is 31.5". OAL on a 20" .308 AI folding stock is 31" w/o a brake. Either one is better (IMO) than a 16" and shorter, too, unless you did a 16" on a folder.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle! </div></div>
I could not disagree more with the wording "precision" perhaps precision at 1000+ yards probably but precision at 100, 200, 300.....600 I bet would be no different.
may be semantics but.....I say rock the shorty! </div></div>
you bring your 16 we will bring a 20-22" and we can dance inside the usable range of a .308 (800-1000 yards).
Care to dance?
There is a place for a 16" (Urban, short/shorter distance, etc)you have to give some to get some. No free lunch here.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle! </div></div>
I could not disagree more with the wording "precision" perhaps precision at 1000+ yards probably but precision at 100, 200, 300.....600 I bet would be no different.
may be semantics but.....I say rock the shorty! </div></div>
you bring your 16 we will bring a 20-22" and we can dance inside the usable range of a .308 (800-1000 yards).
Care to dance?
There is a place for a 16" (Urban, short/shorter distance, etc)you have to give some to get some. No free lunch here.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle! </div></div>
I could not disagree more with the wording "precision" perhaps precision at 1000+ yards probably but precision at 100, 200, 300.....600 I bet would be no different.
may be semantics but.....I say rock the shorty! </div></div>
Well you can bring out your 16" rifle and Ill run a 24" and we will see who shoots tighter groups! I just think if your going to go 16 why not get a gas gun? They seem to run the best at 16.5 out to 800. You would be losing a lot of velocity from the 20-24" guns down to a 16". </div></div>
I fail to see how barrel length affects 'tighter groups'. Yes, the velocity will be considerably less with a shorter barrel, but to say that it wont shoot as tight a group as a 24"... c'mon.
Will it perform at distance like a longer barrel will? Absolutely not. put them side by side at mid range and you will be surprised how accurate a shorty is...
hmmmm shorty, fast twisted, tight bore... <grin>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle! </div></div>
I could not disagree more with the wording "precision" perhaps precision at 1000+ yards probably but precision at 100, 200, 300.....600 I bet would be no different.
may be semantics but.....I say rock the shorty! </div></div>
Well you can bring out your 16" rifle and Ill run a 24" and we will see who shoots tighter groups! I just think if your going to go 16 why not get a gas gun? They seem to run the best at 16.5 out to 800. You would be losing a lot of velocity from the 20-24" guns down to a 16". </div></div>
I fail to see how barrel length affects 'tighter groups'. Yes, the velocity will be considerably less with a shorter barrel, but to say that it wont shoot as tight a group as a 24"... c'mon.
Will it perform at distance like a longer barrel will? Absolutely not. put them side by side at mid range and you will be surprised how accurate a shorty is...
hmmmm shorty, fast twisted, tight bore... <grin>
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
I think this is turning into a comparison of a 308 with along vs. Short bbl. It's not about comparing anything.
The OP is talking about doing it not should I do it because I want the Same speed I get out of a 26" barrel.
The rifle I'm putting together is for a specific purpose. I'm probably not going to show up to a 1000 yard f class comp with it. I think inside 500 yards a 16 with a can would be great.
I think this is turning into a comparison of a 308 with along vs. Short bbl. It's not about comparing anything.
The OP is talking about doing it not should I do it because I want the Same speed I get out of a 26" barrel.
The rifle I'm putting together is for a specific purpose. I'm probably not going to show up to a 1000 yard f class comp with it. I think inside 500 yards a 16 with a can would be great.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
I am pretty sure the Recon from Jered at APA is a 16" 308 rifle as well I have more than one 16" AR10 rifles and they are extremely accurate out to 800 yards. I have even shot them to 1000 yards and will work, but not as well as often.
At 800 yards my GAP AR10 is a tackdriver capable of consistently hitting a 1 MOA target at this distance -- at sea level with factory 175gr ammo.
We have shot our 12.5" 308 POF out to 600 yards with success. It completely fell apart beyond 600 though.
I think it can be done very well, easily out to 800 yards, 600 yards should be a piece of cake even with a factory barrel.
As far as accuracy, I have generally found with shorter barrels they tend to be a bit more accurate inside distances like 600 yards, and definitely very accurate at 100 yards. Because it puts the end of the muzzle closer to the bipod you have added accuracy right there.
Now granted the better your barrel and maker, the better any rifle will be, but the old rules simply don't apply -- you don't need 24" or more in a 308 unless you are looking to gain small advantages during an F Class match, but even then the better shooter should win out. For a tactical rifle -- 22" to 18.5" in a 308 is all that is necessary to hit any target within the accuracy potential of the bullet used, anything else is over kill and unnecessary. Under that distance as well as over it is a speciality rifle designed to meet a specific need usually outside of the tactical arena.
Especially consider the new Hornady load, a 16" stick with a can running a 178gr Superformance round should be every bit as accurate as necessary to 800 yards without much of a problem. And I would suspect at least a 30% hit rate at 1000 yards under any condition with an average driver.
I am pretty sure the Recon from Jered at APA is a 16" 308 rifle as well I have more than one 16" AR10 rifles and they are extremely accurate out to 800 yards. I have even shot them to 1000 yards and will work, but not as well as often.
At 800 yards my GAP AR10 is a tackdriver capable of consistently hitting a 1 MOA target at this distance -- at sea level with factory 175gr ammo.
We have shot our 12.5" 308 POF out to 600 yards with success. It completely fell apart beyond 600 though.
I think it can be done very well, easily out to 800 yards, 600 yards should be a piece of cake even with a factory barrel.
As far as accuracy, I have generally found with shorter barrels they tend to be a bit more accurate inside distances like 600 yards, and definitely very accurate at 100 yards. Because it puts the end of the muzzle closer to the bipod you have added accuracy right there.
Now granted the better your barrel and maker, the better any rifle will be, but the old rules simply don't apply -- you don't need 24" or more in a 308 unless you are looking to gain small advantages during an F Class match, but even then the better shooter should win out. For a tactical rifle -- 22" to 18.5" in a 308 is all that is necessary to hit any target within the accuracy potential of the bullet used, anything else is over kill and unnecessary. Under that distance as well as over it is a speciality rifle designed to meet a specific need usually outside of the tactical arena.
Especially consider the new Hornady load, a 16" stick with a can running a 178gr Superformance round should be every bit as accurate as necessary to 800 yards without much of a problem. And I would suspect at least a 30% hit rate at 1000 yards under any condition with an average driver.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
my 18" 308 shoots surprisingly well out to 800 yards. it actually impresses me at 900 and 1k but i do start getting more vertical at those ranges.
i don't think a 24" barrel built the same way as an 18" (or a 16" to stay on topic with this thread) would be any more "precise". i do see a 24" barrel be affected by the wind less. if you are saying something isn't a precision rifle because it is affected by the wind more than another rifle, then i guess we can say that a 308 is not a precision rifle at all. i don't buy into that.
my 18" 308 shoots surprisingly well out to 800 yards. it actually impresses me at 900 and 1k but i do start getting more vertical at those ranges.
i don't think a 24" barrel built the same way as an 18" (or a 16" to stay on topic with this thread) would be any more "precise". i do see a 24" barrel be affected by the wind less. if you are saying something isn't a precision rifle because it is affected by the wind more than another rifle, then i guess we can say that a 308 is not a precision rifle at all. i don't buy into that.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle! </div></div>
I could not disagree more with the wording "precision" perhaps precision at 1000+ yards probably but precision at 100, 200, 300.....600 I bet would be no different.
may be semantics but.....I say rock the shorty! </div></div>
you bring your 16 we will bring a 20-22" and we can dance inside the usable range of a .308 (800-1000 yards).
Care to dance?
There is a place for a 16" (Urban, short/shorter distance, etc)you have to give some to get some. No free lunch here.</div></div>
I'll dance. I have a DTA in 338LM, 300WM and 308. Using factory ammo the DTA will not outshoot my APA shorty. Also, my shorty folds up to a whopping 27inches. Do I like my DTA? Hell ya..I love it. Does it shoot well? Hell Ya. Will it shoot better once I work up loads for it? Probably. Do I like my shorty? Hell ya. Is there anything wrong with a shorty? No.. just know that it has a purpose and limitations. Most people build a shorty to have something light and managable. If you add a folder you just gave up the light part. If you go with a fixed stock you can shave weight but now you've added length.
My whole point is there nothing wrong with a shorty, just know there will be limits. Back to the OP. Decide on what you want this beast for (distance, light, portable) and build a rifle that suits your needs.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle! </div></div>
I could not disagree more with the wording "precision" perhaps precision at 1000+ yards probably but precision at 100, 200, 300.....600 I bet would be no different.
may be semantics but.....I say rock the shorty! </div></div>
you bring your 16 we will bring a 20-22" and we can dance inside the usable range of a .308 (800-1000 yards).
Care to dance?
There is a place for a 16" (Urban, short/shorter distance, etc)you have to give some to get some. No free lunch here.</div></div>
I'll dance. I have a DTA in 338LM, 300WM and 308. Using factory ammo the DTA will not outshoot my APA shorty. Also, my shorty folds up to a whopping 27inches. Do I like my DTA? Hell ya..I love it. Does it shoot well? Hell Ya. Will it shoot better once I work up loads for it? Probably. Do I like my shorty? Hell ya. Is there anything wrong with a shorty? No.. just know that it has a purpose and limitations. Most people build a shorty to have something light and managable. If you add a folder you just gave up the light part. If you go with a fixed stock you can shave weight but now you've added length.
My whole point is there nothing wrong with a shorty, just know there will be limits. Back to the OP. Decide on what you want this beast for (distance, light, portable) and build a rifle that suits your needs.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
are we two steppin or doing the tango??????
Just wondering... My shorty might not be as little as canavar's or singleshots but I still rock the 20" to the best of my ability and love it.
NOmag
are we two steppin or doing the tango??????
Just wondering... My shorty might not be as little as canavar's or singleshots but I still rock the 20" to the best of my ability and love it.
NOmag
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
oh and didn't lowlight do a video of himself rocking a 18" gladius (i SUCK at spelling) out to 1000 with factory (corbon is kinda factory) at RO ???????
Again not 16" but damn close.....
NOmag
oh and didn't lowlight do a video of himself rocking a 18" gladius (i SUCK at spelling) out to 1000 with factory (corbon is kinda factory) at RO ???????
Again not 16" but damn close.....
NOmag
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
cutting your barrel shorter shouldn't hurt its groups closer in.
back in the mid 80's i had a thompson center contender in .223 andi cut the barrel down to 10", was great hand cannon to shoot and still hit anything i wanted inside 200.
i have 700 varmint sps that had a 26" barrel now sporting a 20" looks cool and still shoots just as good.
cutting your barrel shorter shouldn't hurt its groups closer in.
back in the mid 80's i had a thompson center contender in .223 andi cut the barrel down to 10", was great hand cannon to shoot and still hit anything i wanted inside 200.
i have 700 varmint sps that had a 26" barrel now sporting a 20" looks cool and still shoots just as good.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
A shorter barrel is more rigid at ANY diameter. jump on a diving board and see the sag. now cut it in half- see way less sag.
short range bench rest shooters use short barrels for this reason.
Less barrel harmonics = a more forgiving barrel shot to shot, load to load, cold bore temp to scalding hot.
You guys that say it's not accurate from purely a length argument are simply wrong. The only way a longer barrel can be more accurate is at range from a remaining velocity point of view...
A shorter barrel is more rigid at ANY diameter. jump on a diving board and see the sag. now cut it in half- see way less sag.
short range bench rest shooters use short barrels for this reason.
Less barrel harmonics = a more forgiving barrel shot to shot, load to load, cold bore temp to scalding hot.
You guys that say it's not accurate from purely a length argument are simply wrong. The only way a longer barrel can be more accurate is at range from a remaining velocity point of view...
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOmag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">oh and didn't lowlight do a video of himself rocking a 18" gladius (i SUCK at spelling) out to 1000 with factory (corbon is kinda factory) at RO ???????</div></div>
yes...
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOmag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">oh and didn't lowlight do a video of himself rocking a 18" gladius (i SUCK at spelling) out to 1000 with factory (corbon is kinda factory) at RO ???????</div></div>
yes...
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Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
Over on the DTA thread, they shot the new covert with a 16" barrel and it shot as good as the srs 22" out to 700 yards. I think thats as far as they went.
Trilogymac
Over on the DTA thread, they shot the new covert with a 16" barrel and it shot as good as the srs 22" out to 700 yards. I think thats as far as they went.
Trilogymac
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
Since I started hunting with a 16" AR, I have found smaller is better. This year I used a 20" AR10 and hated it because it was so big.
If you aren't going to shoot it way out there, the difference in velocity isn't going to hurt you. A 16" gun will not beat a 24-26" at 1000, but less than 5-600, probably minimal difference.
I have strongly considered doing this myself but that project is number 2 or 3 on the list. If you have a specific purpose in mind such as urban or hunting, I recommend doing it.
Since most loads are designed around 20-24" barrels, you might be able to get better velocity if you do some experimenting with powders.
Since I started hunting with a 16" AR, I have found smaller is better. This year I used a 20" AR10 and hated it because it was so big.
If you aren't going to shoot it way out there, the difference in velocity isn't going to hurt you. A 16" gun will not beat a 24-26" at 1000, but less than 5-600, probably minimal difference.
I have strongly considered doing this myself but that project is number 2 or 3 on the list. If you have a specific purpose in mind such as urban or hunting, I recommend doing it.
Since most loads are designed around 20-24" barrels, you might be able to get better velocity if you do some experimenting with powders.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
It's pretty simple to figure things out on your own, go to JBM and put in your velocity and then calculate the trajectory. Look at the elevation and wind. Then figure with a factory barrel between 15 or 20 fps per inch, which is being optimistic, as I normally see only about 10fps changes, but you can do 15 to 20, and calculate the same information with the revised Muzzle Velocity... if you note the elevation may change quite a bit but the wind won't change nearly as much as the elevation does and really who cares, if you can dial it you can hit it.
It's pretty simple to figure things out on your own, go to JBM and put in your velocity and then calculate the trajectory. Look at the elevation and wind. Then figure with a factory barrel between 15 or 20 fps per inch, which is being optimistic, as I normally see only about 10fps changes, but you can do 15 to 20, and calculate the same information with the revised Muzzle Velocity... if you note the elevation may change quite a bit but the wind won't change nearly as much as the elevation does and really who cares, if you can dial it you can hit it.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
Im not down talking the short rifles. I have a Gladius (like Franks), a 18" Crusader, an 18" Crusader in 260 and a 18" M40A3
So I know what the short ones are capable of.
Im not down talking the short rifles. I have a Gladius (like Franks), a 18" Crusader, an 18" Crusader in 260 and a 18" M40A3
So I know what the short ones are capable of.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
The person who posted the "Little Gun Done" which is currently right above this thread has a 16" bolt gun...
The person who posted the "Little Gun Done" which is currently right above this thread has a 16" bolt gun...
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
I can throw my hotdog down a hallway and get the desired result but I'm happiest when I can find a glove like fit.
As long as the tool matches the job......
I can throw my hotdog down a hallway and get the desired result but I'm happiest when I can find a glove like fit.
As long as the tool matches the job......
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Supa_Fly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle! </div></div>
I could not disagree more with the wording "precision" perhaps precision at 1000+ yards probably but precision at 100, 200, 300.....600 I bet would be no different.
may be semantics but.....I say rock the shorty! </div></div>
Well you can bring out your 16" rifle and Ill run a 24" and we will see who shoots tighter groups! I just think if your going to go 16 why not get a gas gun? They seem to run the best at 16.5 out to 800. You would be losing a lot of velocity from the 20-24" guns down to a 16". </div></div>
I fail to see how barrel length affects 'tighter groups'. Yes, the velocity will be considerably less with a shorter barrel, but to say that it wont shoot as tight a group as a 24"... c'mon.
Will it perform at distance like a longer barrel will? Absolutely not. put them side by side at mid range and you will be surprised how accurate a shorty is...
hmmmm shorty, fast twisted, tight bore... <grin> </div></div>
I agree with supa_fly, I cut mine down to 18" and the rifle actually shot better. Here my 3 shot groups at 100:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Supa_Fly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting a bolt gun lower then 18 is pretty much defeating the purpose of the precision bolt gun....
Go with an AR15 if you want a handy rifle. Oh, and you're not building a "sniper" rifle, you're building a precision rifle! </div></div>
I could not disagree more with the wording "precision" perhaps precision at 1000+ yards probably but precision at 100, 200, 300.....600 I bet would be no different.
may be semantics but.....I say rock the shorty! </div></div>
Well you can bring out your 16" rifle and Ill run a 24" and we will see who shoots tighter groups! I just think if your going to go 16 why not get a gas gun? They seem to run the best at 16.5 out to 800. You would be losing a lot of velocity from the 20-24" guns down to a 16". </div></div>
I fail to see how barrel length affects 'tighter groups'. Yes, the velocity will be considerably less with a shorter barrel, but to say that it wont shoot as tight a group as a 24"... c'mon.
Will it perform at distance like a longer barrel will? Absolutely not. put them side by side at mid range and you will be surprised how accurate a shorty is...
hmmmm shorty, fast twisted, tight bore... <grin> </div></div>
I agree with supa_fly, I cut mine down to 18" and the rifle actually shot better. Here my 3 shot groups at 100:
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DrDeath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone have a 16inch or shorty barreled Sniper rifle? I was thinking of cutting my barrel down for handiness , and wanted to know if anyone has done this? Please post some pics of yours..Thanks </div></div>
17 1/2" Rock 8 twist in plain 'ol 223 still gets 75 A-Maxes to 2900
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DrDeath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone have a 16inch or shorty barreled Sniper rifle? I was thinking of cutting my barrel down for handiness , and wanted to know if anyone has done this? Please post some pics of yours..Thanks </div></div>
17 1/2" Rock 8 twist in plain 'ol 223 still gets 75 A-Maxes to 2900
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
I definitely recommend it! Mine is a hammer!
I get about 2469FPS with factory 168gr AMAX TAP. Kills the crap out of animals...
I originally had it built because I had 2 full sized 308's. One was an 24" AIAE that I shot all the time and the other was a 26" PSS in a Mcmillan A5 that I shot almost never. I sent it to Jered at APA and had it cut down to 16" and a bolt knob installed and it is now one of my favorite rifles.
As for shooting groups, the group sizes cut in half. The rifle went from about .5 to .3 or so. I think this is probably due to 2 reasons:
1. a new precision cut crown.
2. at the same diameter, a shorter barrel is always more rigid.
Everyone who shoots this rifle falls in love with it. I know of at least 3 more that have been built by buddies of mine as a direct result. One remington, one savage and one TRG 22.
In short, go for it!
I definitely recommend it! Mine is a hammer!
I get about 2469FPS with factory 168gr AMAX TAP. Kills the crap out of animals...
I originally had it built because I had 2 full sized 308's. One was an 24" AIAE that I shot all the time and the other was a 26" PSS in a Mcmillan A5 that I shot almost never. I sent it to Jered at APA and had it cut down to 16" and a bolt knob installed and it is now one of my favorite rifles.
As for shooting groups, the group sizes cut in half. The rifle went from about .5 to .3 or so. I think this is probably due to 2 reasons:
1. a new precision cut crown.
2. at the same diameter, a shorter barrel is always more rigid.
Everyone who shoots this rifle falls in love with it. I know of at least 3 more that have been built by buddies of mine as a direct result. One remington, one savage and one TRG 22.
In short, go for it!
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
18" barrel getting better velocity than the reloading book listed with a 26" barrel....7mm-08 with 162gr bullets. I assume you are talking about the sniper rifle being chambered in 308Win? I looked long and hard into barrel length before I had my barrel cut down, never fired before I cut it down.
I belive the 308Win based rounds can get a sufficent burn in an 18" barrel with modern powders. If you want a 16" barrel you might be better suited with a 223Rem based round. They each have their own applications and don't cross-apply very well.
I was running chrono tests with my rifle when I first got it....yokels drove by and got to talking. One said my rifle was a "Sniper Rifle"....no comment....then the other jumps in and says "Nope, the barrel is too short to be a sniper rifle"
I flat out loved it.....if you were to poll a group of Designated Marksmen or LEO/Military Snipers I firmly belive they would be all for a shorter, lighter rifle for 90% of their job. When you need long go big but packing a 32" 50BMG all day every day gets old I imagine.
My next project will probably be:
M700 S/A
16" Rock Varm contour 1-7" twist
6x45 round or maybe 6TCU
SS 3-9 FFP
MCM A1-3 Edge
Seekins DBM
It will have an exact purpouse....to shoot under 600 yards with gnats ass precision.
18" barrel getting better velocity than the reloading book listed with a 26" barrel....7mm-08 with 162gr bullets. I assume you are talking about the sniper rifle being chambered in 308Win? I looked long and hard into barrel length before I had my barrel cut down, never fired before I cut it down.
I belive the 308Win based rounds can get a sufficent burn in an 18" barrel with modern powders. If you want a 16" barrel you might be better suited with a 223Rem based round. They each have their own applications and don't cross-apply very well.
I was running chrono tests with my rifle when I first got it....yokels drove by and got to talking. One said my rifle was a "Sniper Rifle"....no comment....then the other jumps in and says "Nope, the barrel is too short to be a sniper rifle"
I flat out loved it.....if you were to poll a group of Designated Marksmen or LEO/Military Snipers I firmly belive they would be all for a shorter, lighter rifle for 90% of their job. When you need long go big but packing a 32" 50BMG all day every day gets old I imagine.
My next project will probably be:
M700 S/A
16" Rock Varm contour 1-7" twist
6x45 round or maybe 6TCU
SS 3-9 FFP
MCM A1-3 Edge
Seekins DBM
It will have an exact purpouse....to shoot under 600 yards with gnats ass precision.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The person who posted the "Little Gun Done" which is currently right above this thread has a 16" bolt gun... </div></div>
I told Jered that I wanted to build a white trash version of his "Recon Rifle". He and I had been on a few night time varmint hunts and I really liked how his recon rifle handled. A short barrel is so much easier to navigate through the woods, especially in the dark. Being able to switch from sub sonic to super sonic ammo with a pull of a bolt and a twist of the knob was also a plus in the bolt gun.
Here's the link to what I came up with from some parts and pieces that I had laying around, hence the "white trash" version. It may not be pretty but man is it handy. I like it!
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1781983#Post1781983
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The person who posted the "Little Gun Done" which is currently right above this thread has a 16" bolt gun... </div></div>
I told Jered that I wanted to build a white trash version of his "Recon Rifle". He and I had been on a few night time varmint hunts and I really liked how his recon rifle handled. A short barrel is so much easier to navigate through the woods, especially in the dark. Being able to switch from sub sonic to super sonic ammo with a pull of a bolt and a twist of the knob was also a plus in the bolt gun.
Here's the link to what I came up with from some parts and pieces that I had laying around, hence the "white trash" version. It may not be pretty but man is it handy. I like it!
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1781983#Post1781983
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
Ok I have three 16.0 Recons built buy APA WHY three you ask???? It's simple I am a flipin gun hore! If I could have a three sum with them I would.
All three rifle are built as follows,
*APA trued Rem 700 with side bolt releases and fluted bolts.
*All MCM stocks.One has a A1-3 the others are A1's with ADJ cheeks.
*16.0in 1in10 twist Broughton BBL'S.
*Two of them have SF cans and the other one has a threaded SWR Omega 300 on it.
I dont know if I was lucky but two of the three guns are on ave with my 175SMK load
40FPS slower than my 24,25,26in 308's. I my opinion 40FPS will make no differance at 1K. The other one is on ave of about 70FPS slower. I have been thinking of doing a video proving this down in my range and posting it on the Hide. What do you guys think? I would have time mybe to it on Monday or Tuesday.
Pete
Ok I have three 16.0 Recons built buy APA WHY three you ask???? It's simple I am a flipin gun hore! If I could have a three sum with them I would.
All three rifle are built as follows,
*APA trued Rem 700 with side bolt releases and fluted bolts.
*All MCM stocks.One has a A1-3 the others are A1's with ADJ cheeks.
*16.0in 1in10 twist Broughton BBL'S.
*Two of them have SF cans and the other one has a threaded SWR Omega 300 on it.
I dont know if I was lucky but two of the three guns are on ave with my 175SMK load
40FPS slower than my 24,25,26in 308's. I my opinion 40FPS will make no differance at 1K. The other one is on ave of about 70FPS slower. I have been thinking of doing a video proving this down in my range and posting it on the Hide. What do you guys think? I would have time mybe to it on Monday or Tuesday.
Pete
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
Ran some 16.7" SENTINELS.
With Cyclone-Ks attached the OAL was about the same as a 24" rifle.
Accuracy was awesome and velocity wasn't too bad. Fed GM308M @ 2550 fps
Ran some 16.7" SENTINELS.
With Cyclone-Ks attached the OAL was about the same as a 24" rifle.
Accuracy was awesome and velocity wasn't too bad. Fed GM308M @ 2550 fps
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
Anybody have any more pics of those shorties? I'm about to build one, but 16 ust looks kinda weird to me.
Anybody have any more pics of those shorties? I'm about to build one, but 16 ust looks kinda weird to me.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
Im having my Savage 10 PC cut down to 16" and a AAC Miter Mount installed so it will end up being 18" total.
Im having my Savage 10 PC cut down to 16" and a AAC Miter Mount installed so it will end up being 18" total.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GHOSTRECON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok I have three 16.0 Recons built buy APA WHY three you ask???? It's simple I am a flipin gun hore! If I could have a three sum with them I would.
All three rifle are built as follows,
*APA trued Rem 700 with side bolt releases and fluted bolts.
*All MCM stocks.One has a A1-3 the others are A1's with ADJ cheeks.
*16.0in 1in10 twist Broughton BBL'S.
*Two of them have SF cans and the other one has a threaded SWR Omega 300 on it.
I dont know if I was lucky but two of the three guns are on ave with my 175SMK load
40FPS slower than my 24,25,26in 308's. I my opinion 40FPS will make no differance at 1K. The other one is on ave of about 70FPS slower. I have been thinking of doing a video proving this down in my range and posting it on the Hide. What do you guys think? I would have time mybe to it on Monday or Tuesday.
Pete </div></div>
WTF....Over!
Love to see that picture set of rifles!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GHOSTRECON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok I have three 16.0 Recons built buy APA WHY three you ask???? It's simple I am a flipin gun hore! If I could have a three sum with them I would.
All three rifle are built as follows,
*APA trued Rem 700 with side bolt releases and fluted bolts.
*All MCM stocks.One has a A1-3 the others are A1's with ADJ cheeks.
*16.0in 1in10 twist Broughton BBL'S.
*Two of them have SF cans and the other one has a threaded SWR Omega 300 on it.
I dont know if I was lucky but two of the three guns are on ave with my 175SMK load
40FPS slower than my 24,25,26in 308's. I my opinion 40FPS will make no differance at 1K. The other one is on ave of about 70FPS slower. I have been thinking of doing a video proving this down in my range and posting it on the Hide. What do you guys think? I would have time mybe to it on Monday or Tuesday.
Pete </div></div>
WTF....Over!
Love to see that picture set of rifles!
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
i started out with a 22in barreled 243 and wacked it down to 18 in two inch cuts.. i love it BUT the noice difference is a huge difference in my opinion.. accuracy didn't change at all, i didn't have the balls to cutt it another 2 inchs to 16..
i started out with a 22in barreled 243 and wacked it down to 18 in two inch cuts.. i love it BUT the noice difference is a huge difference in my opinion.. accuracy didn't change at all, i didn't have the balls to cutt it another 2 inchs to 16..
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
All you're going to lose is velocity. Mine is running between 2450 and 2500 with 175's in .308. I feel and see no issues out to 700 and 800. Having the short barrel is really handy if you actually using it for urban deployments, hunting, shooting in contorted or weird offhand positions.
All you're going to lose is velocity. Mine is running between 2450 and 2500 with 175's in .308. I feel and see no issues out to 700 and 800. Having the short barrel is really handy if you actually using it for urban deployments, hunting, shooting in contorted or weird offhand positions.
Re: 16inch Barrel Sniper Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mk443</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i started out with a 22in barreled 243 and wacked it down to 18 in two inch cuts.. i love it BUT the noice difference is a huge difference in my opinion.. accuracy didn't change at all, i didn't have the balls to cutt it another 2 inchs to 16.. </div></div>
If you hand load, use a faster burning powder and it will reduce some of that blast.
I have a 10” barreled 223 handgun and the blast was uncomfortable when I used my normal rifle load, switching to a faster burning propellant reduced the blast significantly without much change in velocity.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mk443</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i started out with a 22in barreled 243 and wacked it down to 18 in two inch cuts.. i love it BUT the noice difference is a huge difference in my opinion.. accuracy didn't change at all, i didn't have the balls to cutt it another 2 inchs to 16.. </div></div>
If you hand load, use a faster burning powder and it will reduce some of that blast.
I have a 10” barreled 223 handgun and the blast was uncomfortable when I used my normal rifle load, switching to a faster burning propellant reduced the blast significantly without much change in velocity.
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