Anyone have any experience with the loaded ammo yet? Looks promising based on the data from other calibers and I'm looking for a good out of the box 1000 yard load. Any measured bc numbers yet, Lapua has not provided any info on the website?
Range Report 175 gr .308 Lapua Scenar-L
- Thread starter Dark Horse
- Start date
Damn you guys, I was all excited that there was 2 posts with some info. Well I back-ordered 500 rds, so depending on when they come in I will post some results.
I spoke to Pekka (our Ballistics and R&D man in Finland) while I was in Perry last week, and he told me that they'd be shooting these, along with the other new bullets this week and next. It'll take a short time to run the numbers, but we should have both G1 and G7 BCs posted to the website (Home - Lapua) somewhere in the first part of September. Keep in touch and I'll fill you guys in as I hear more. Hey, I'm as anxious to work with this one as you are!
Thanks, Kevin.
Interesting to see how they stack up to the Bergers in the same class.
nez
Interesting to see how they stack up to the Bergers in the same class.
nez
I'm guessing they'll make a pretty fair showing in re the Berger's, and should flat-out walk away from he SMKs. Good looking bullets. Finally got to see these in person at the IWA show, but haven't had a chance to play with them yet. Too much time on the road lately!
Good news i'm also itching for those but noone has them yet for sale. Spoke with Lamnia guys from Finland and gave me some crap about post companies not wanting to deliver bullets cause they are part of the ammunition 
and due to massive vacations all over Europe business is kind of slow for the rest of the dealers and all are either waiting for Lapua to deliver or are somewhere splashing around and drinking on the beach.
and due to massive vacations all over Europe business is kind of slow for the rest of the dealers and all are either waiting for Lapua to deliver or are somewhere splashing around and drinking on the beach.Finally got 100 of them (and some 220gr but those will have to wait a bit).
Measured and weighted them and here are results:
MinW = 174.3gr
MaxW = 174.6gr
MinL = 33.8mm
MaxL = 33.95mm
SDW = 0.08gr
SDL = 0.04mm
Median 174.5gr
SpreadW:
174.3 = 7 pcs
174.4 = 34 pcs
174.5 = 50 pcs
174.6 = 9pcs
SpreadL:
33.8 = 27 pcs
33.85 = 54 pcs
33.9 = 18 pcs
33.95 = 1 pcs
Don't have time to test them as i also use hBN coating so this will have to wait a bit but since those 100 are a sample from 1000 bulk package and survived drive from Germany and flight from Finland (Finlands post office is a bit weird as they won't ship bullets for reasons known only to them i guess...) so considering all the banging around they still are surprisingly uniform (especially as i measured to tip which is always problematic).
Measured and weighted them and here are results:
MinW = 174.3gr
MaxW = 174.6gr
MinL = 33.8mm
MaxL = 33.95mm
SDW = 0.08gr
SDL = 0.04mm
Median 174.5gr
SpreadW:
174.3 = 7 pcs
174.4 = 34 pcs
174.5 = 50 pcs
174.6 = 9pcs
SpreadL:
33.8 = 27 pcs
33.85 = 54 pcs
33.9 = 18 pcs
33.95 = 1 pcs
Don't have time to test them as i also use hBN coating so this will have to wait a bit but since those 100 are a sample from 1000 bulk package and survived drive from Germany and flight from Finland (Finlands post office is a bit weird as they won't ship bullets for reasons known only to them i guess...) so considering all the banging around they still are surprisingly uniform (especially as i measured to tip which is always problematic).
Tag along for range report, no one shot these yet?
Thanks for letting us know. I'm disappointed by the 220s BC.
Tellme about it i really don't know WTF are they thinking across the board those BCs are simply not where they should've been. I've checked drag data for 136gr vs 139gr scenar and looking at data they've designed bullet so that its better in transsonic region (1.4M->0.9M) but the rest seems worse...
I had high hopes for 175 and 220 but they've been successfully shot down by that data...
I had high hopes for 175 and 220 but they've been successfully shot down by that data...
it looks like the same BCs for the "L" Scenar as the current Scenar? someone mentioned that the bullets may be more uniform, more consistent from bullet to bullet?
Received 10,000 of the L's and finally shot them over 43grs of RL15/BR2 seated onto the lands. The results all the way out to 1000yrds are oustanding. Jump or jam,..they work.
published BC seems spot on,...I would be worried if it wasn't given that Lapua Dopplar radar test all their projectiles? I am using FFS and with that the BC /corrections work.Platform is an AI with 5R cut rifled 28" tube running the Scenars fast at 2800fps
Have had a chance to do a little testing with the 175 Scenar l, but due to the fire restrictions I will have to wait until we have some rain or drive a couple of hours to get up to the club. Moving on, this is just one picture of many tests using VVN540, AA2495 and Varget and only at 100yds. Some of the other groups are similar but this is one of the best using the AA2495, with one bullet going through the same hole
Still testing the VVN540 and Varget, so it will be a while before I can put all the data together and determine which loads and lengths will be the best for my rifle.
I am finding out like Emouse said, jump or jam they seem to work very well.
Not sure if anyone is following this thread, but will update as progress moves ahead.
The target is a 13/16 black dot on a bright yellow greenish background, inexpensive and it works for me.
Rifle, box stock Savage 10/110 FCP HS Precision .308 24" heavy barrel, 1:10 twist, with a NF ATACR MOAR, 40MOA rail.
A lot of questions about BC and other data which Lapua has put up on their web sight, so I won't duplicate it here.
I went through about 25 bullets from two 1000 round boxes and OG, length, diameter, etc. is all within approx .001 of each other, excellent quality control.
With this quality they should do quite well.
Hopefully this week I will be able to try some 300yd preliminary testing and as that works out, 1,000yds.
AZ
Still testing the VVN540 and Varget, so it will be a while before I can put all the data together and determine which loads and lengths will be the best for my rifle.
I am finding out like Emouse said, jump or jam they seem to work very well.
Not sure if anyone is following this thread, but will update as progress moves ahead.
The target is a 13/16 black dot on a bright yellow greenish background, inexpensive and it works for me.
Rifle, box stock Savage 10/110 FCP HS Precision .308 24" heavy barrel, 1:10 twist, with a NF ATACR MOAR, 40MOA rail.
A lot of questions about BC and other data which Lapua has put up on their web sight, so I won't duplicate it here.
I went through about 25 bullets from two 1000 round boxes and OG, length, diameter, etc. is all within approx .001 of each other, excellent quality control.
With this quality they should do quite well.
Hopefully this week I will be able to try some 300yd preliminary testing and as that works out, 1,000yds.
AZ
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sending them,...
AZ,..if I read corect you are sending them at a very modest speed? I have tried initially with RL15 and around 43grs +, they do seem to find an accuracy node that would be better than your initial attempts?Primer used has been CCI BR2. Please post on your continued testing, as I like others are interested in how you get on. I have taken mine to 1,000yrds and am delighted in how consistent they shoot. Holding "minute of man " at that distance is certainly no great problem. Testing at 200/300yrds may be an idea to see how the bullets settle out of your particular barrel??
Have had a chance to do a little testing with the 175 Scenar l, but due to the fire restrictions I will have to wait until we have some rain or drive a couple of hours to get up to the club. Moving on, this is just one picture of many tests using VVN540, AA2495 and Varget and only at 100yds. Some of the other groups are similar but this is one of the best using the AA2495, with one bullet going through the same hole
Still testing the VVN540 and Varget, so it will be a while before I can put all the data together and determine which loads and lengths will be the best for my rifle.
I am finding out like Emouse said, jump or jam they seem to work very well.
Not sure if anyone is following this thread, but will update as progress moves ahead.
The target is a 13/16 black dot on a bright yellow greenish background, inexpensive and it works for me.
Rifle, box stock Savage 10/110 FCP HS Precision .308 24" heavy barrel, 1:10 twist, with a NF ATACR MOAR, 40MOA rail.
A lot of questions about BC and other data which Lapua has put up on their web sight, so I won't duplicate it here.
I went through about 25 bullets from two 1000 round boxes and OG, length, diameter, etc. is all within approx .001 of each other, excellent quality control.
With this quality they should do quite well.
Hopefully this week I will be able to try some 300yd preliminary testing and as that works out, 1,000yds.
AZ
AZ,..if I read corect you are sending them at a very modest speed? I have tried initially with RL15 and around 43grs +, they do seem to find an accuracy node that would be better than your initial attempts?Primer used has been CCI BR2. Please post on your continued testing, as I like others are interested in how you get on. I have taken mine to 1,000yrds and am delighted in how consistent they shoot. Holding "minute of man " at that distance is certainly no great problem. Testing at 200/300yrds may be an idea to see how the bullets settle out of your particular barrel??
E, I am running what some would consider a little slow. Some of the testing I have done with other calibers has swayed me to try slow first, maintaining a calculated supersonic speed until I have an opportunity to fine tune @ 1,000. As I work with these powders some amounts will increase and some may even be reduced, while increasing the seating depth to increase the pressure in turn bringing up the speed. As you probably know it is a balancing game and for me a challenge to see if I can get a powder that is not really highly recommended for a heavier .308 bullet to have repeatability and accuracy. As you probably know I could take roughly 44 grains of varget stuff the bullet using the AOL and have something that would take a few adjustments and be done, but what the hell, for me it wouldn't be much of a personal challenge.
I use the 300yd testing to determine primarily speed and stability by measuring the vertical dispersion and consistency, it takes a little longer to complete and I attempt to do this when it is a calm wind or steady up to about 4 MPH. This way when the wind is blowing, for me it is easier to make a call and use a wind correction using the reticle rather than to fumble trying to make knob adjustments, that way I am fairly certain if the hit's are to far off vertically it is not the gun, leaving only one variable? The shooter.
The last load I worked up was for a .243 Winchester. After finishing in roughly 3 months, the rifle would shoot a 5 shot sub moa group at a 1,000 and a 3 shot 2moa group at a mile.(35") It took 16 rounds to get on target figuring out the coriolis and spin drift effects at a mile, so it is not easy especially with a 6mm bullet and it was a challenge.
Some of the members who may read this are going to say," bull shit", which is fine, but with a decent rifle and a good load you can do it.
The best part is when you talk to someone you know and they have never shot that far and usually say that's incredible, I ask them if they would like to try. Take them out, run them through some of the basics applied to distance shooting, fire off a couple three warm up rounds to make sure the gun is set and give it to them. Usually if the weather is calm, they are able to hit the target within 5 rounds, usually they will have the biggest smile and go on to become more involved.
That's what I enjoy.
Hopefully on Monday will be able to get out and do some more testing and get at least two out of the three powders settled in [MENTION=89035]300[/MENTION] and then off to 1,000.
AZ
I use the 300yd testing to determine primarily speed and stability by measuring the vertical dispersion and consistency, it takes a little longer to complete and I attempt to do this when it is a calm wind or steady up to about 4 MPH. This way when the wind is blowing, for me it is easier to make a call and use a wind correction using the reticle rather than to fumble trying to make knob adjustments, that way I am fairly certain if the hit's are to far off vertically it is not the gun, leaving only one variable? The shooter.
The last load I worked up was for a .243 Winchester. After finishing in roughly 3 months, the rifle would shoot a 5 shot sub moa group at a 1,000 and a 3 shot 2moa group at a mile.(35") It took 16 rounds to get on target figuring out the coriolis and spin drift effects at a mile, so it is not easy especially with a 6mm bullet and it was a challenge.
Some of the members who may read this are going to say," bull shit", which is fine, but with a decent rifle and a good load you can do it.
The best part is when you talk to someone you know and they have never shot that far and usually say that's incredible, I ask them if they would like to try. Take them out, run them through some of the basics applied to distance shooting, fire off a couple three warm up rounds to make sure the gun is set and give it to them. Usually if the weather is calm, they are able to hit the target within 5 rounds, usually they will have the biggest smile and go on to become more involved.
That's what I enjoy.
Hopefully on Monday will be able to get out and do some more testing and get at least two out of the three powders settled in [MENTION=89035]300[/MENTION] and then off to 1,000.
AZ
Update on no update? Boy that makes a lot of sense, going to have to start drinking. Conditions haven't seemed to change for getting out, except the wind is gusting in the mountains now that the rain stopped and the lower desert areas are still closed due to the fire bans, ie no shooting. There are a few places around to shoot at club ranges, but from what I can determine I wouldn't be able to use the Chrony, which is one of the primary reasons to do the testing and not go through an extra couple hundred rounds extra to get all of the data. There will come a day I should be able to get out and do this, but for now will put this on hold till it comes about. If it runs to much longer will set up a generator and put up some lights by the target and do it at night, weather permitting in the mountains.
Regardless, I will finish this and come to some conclusions.
AZ
Regardless, I will finish this and come to some conclusions.
AZ
I've used this ammo some days ago on my 20", after a 100 m zero check ( one hole ) I sent downrange from 500 meters to 832 meters 25 rounds, awesome result, all the rounds on the same POI, I've never seen a thing like this.
The meteo condition was very bad, heavy rain under thunderstorm..
these are the videos ( sorry for Italian language ), on the bad smile first target on the left 2 round on the same point, on the other one a 3 rounds group..
The meteo condition was very bad, heavy rain under thunderstorm..
these are the videos ( sorry for Italian language ), on the bad smile first target on the left 2 round on the same point, on the other one a 3 rounds group..
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Thank you one shot, I wasn't able to get the video to play, may not have the right software but that's ok. From what I see this gives me hope the 175's will work well.
I did finally get a short window to try the 175's out with my off brand or wrong bullet won't work powder, at 100yds? I am going to reload a few more and take them out to 300yds and see how they stack up or work at that range, if they work will take them out to 1,000 yds and give them another try. I haven't really done anything with the Varget and have concentrated primarily on the VV N540 and the AA2495 and strangely enough the load for both powders has came up the same? What also surprised me is the OG length, from past experience I have always had better results stretching the bullets out and getting closer to the lands and groves, with these it seems like the longer the jump the better they like it, at least in my gun.
I have a very shallow throat with the OG on the lands @ 2.218 so not a lot of room to stretch these out in my short throat. What I did find is they seem to work rather well @ 2.170 which is .048 off the lans, long jump. The reason the throat is so shallow is because this is a gun built basically for LE and a lot of departments do not custom load their ammunition, instead buying quality match grade rounds. I was informed that most match grade off the shelf is designed this way to work adequately in production type rifles built along similar profiles to retain the accuracy.
Speed is coming in about the same on both @ about 2,610 fps for the N540 and 2,650 fps for the AA2495, using my chrony and according to my calculations, should be above supersonic to just beyond 1,000 yds.
Here are a couple of pictures of the results for the two powders and of course there will be flyer's, starting to think the barrel is maybe bent a little?
It will be a bit before I get a chance to do the 300yds, but excellent shooting on your part.
One shot, What are you shooting the 175's out of?
AZ
I did finally get a short window to try the 175's out with my off brand or wrong bullet won't work powder, at 100yds? I am going to reload a few more and take them out to 300yds and see how they stack up or work at that range, if they work will take them out to 1,000 yds and give them another try. I haven't really done anything with the Varget and have concentrated primarily on the VV N540 and the AA2495 and strangely enough the load for both powders has came up the same? What also surprised me is the OG length, from past experience I have always had better results stretching the bullets out and getting closer to the lands and groves, with these it seems like the longer the jump the better they like it, at least in my gun.
I have a very shallow throat with the OG on the lands @ 2.218 so not a lot of room to stretch these out in my short throat. What I did find is they seem to work rather well @ 2.170 which is .048 off the lans, long jump. The reason the throat is so shallow is because this is a gun built basically for LE and a lot of departments do not custom load their ammunition, instead buying quality match grade rounds. I was informed that most match grade off the shelf is designed this way to work adequately in production type rifles built along similar profiles to retain the accuracy.
Speed is coming in about the same on both @ about 2,610 fps for the N540 and 2,650 fps for the AA2495, using my chrony and according to my calculations, should be above supersonic to just beyond 1,000 yds.
Here are a couple of pictures of the results for the two powders and of course there will be flyer's, starting to think the barrel is maybe bent a little?
It will be a bit before I get a chance to do the 300yds, but excellent shooting on your part.
One shot, What are you shooting the 175's out of?
AZ
yes works great, 2 different rifles, a custom with Krieger 20" and an Accuracy also with 20", all the 2 rifle with twist 1/10, at 100 meters one hole, same speed and SD less then 2 but the hole was also to other distances till 832 meters, in the left eye of the smile there are 2 rounds.
I'll use this ammo only for competitions, in Italy we have to pay 2 euro's each, I bought 500 of them some days ago..
I'll use this ammo only for competitions, in Italy we have to pay 2 euro's each, I bought 500 of them some days ago..
A quick test session Saturday last,..43.5grs of RS52 ( identical to RL15) and murom primers. This was in surplus military brass f/l sized and prepped. Flyer was called and was last in the 5 shot group. Stick was an AIAW with 5r Border barrel. Sent down range at around 2780fps. Range 109 yrds fired prone off bipod. black sticky is 3/4 inch diam.Pretty much 4 rounds into 1 .30 cal hole. That will do nicely.
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Excellent, if it wasn't against someone's law I would send you some of my cartridges to test for me.
AZ,..any updates on testing especially with Varget ( I think you said you had that??) Any other powders??
Emouse, I did try a quick load with Varget at the first 100 yd go around. Five shots, 4 came out touching all 4 corners with my usual 1 flyer to the left. I know it doesn't count as a 5 shot group but it looked like a 4 leaf clover with no center, sub moa. That was with Nosler brass, wolf primers and 42 grains coming out at 2668 fps and did stretch the OG out to 2.210. I am planning on reducing the load by about 1 to 1.5 grains and reset the to OG 2.170 increasing my jump to the .048. If it works better, will play with some more powder volume and lengths, trying to keep my speed above 2650 so they are still supersonic at 1,000 yds, with impact @ about 575 lbf. For me it is usually the 300 yd and 500yd that will tell me if they are good to go.
I do have some IMR4320 and H4831sc but out of the two when I get time, it will probably be a load work up with the IMR4320. I have a friend that uses it and he does nice tight groups, but still a different rifle?
Still waiting for the weather to clear up a bit was @ 114 f today and probably will be for a few more weeks unless we get some rain, so just a little to warm for this old guy.
PS I really enjoy the BBC version of Top Gear, it's great.
AZ
I do have some IMR4320 and H4831sc but out of the two when I get time, it will probably be a load work up with the IMR4320. I have a friend that uses it and he does nice tight groups, but still a different rifle?
Still waiting for the weather to clear up a bit was @ 114 f today and probably will be for a few more weeks unless we get some rain, so just a little to warm for this old guy.
PS I really enjoy the BBC version of Top Gear, it's great.
AZ
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Run mine through a TRG-22 at 2,580 with Vv N540. I load them .013 off the lands.
They shoot where I aim them and are very consistent. I regularly get groups below .5 moa. Don't recall ever getting a .6 group.
They shoot where I aim them and are very consistent. I regularly get groups below .5 moa. Don't recall ever getting a .6 group.
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Enough Said, That is also excellent. Not sure if my box Savage or I am going to do as well as you EMouse and Oneshot, but it's fun trying. How do the Scenars do at distance, I am curiuos about your cases, type, trim length, primers and powder load? Is your TRG a 1-11 twist or modified, I have some magnum primers I am thinking about trying but have only seen about a 30fps speed increase and not sure at this point if the powder will like the hotter burn? At 2,580 have you had any indication of key hole and do they calculate out at still supersonic at 1,000 yds. For my elevation and normal atmospheric they would still be, but am not familiar with your weather stuff so just wanted to ask. Reason I ask is when I get my suppressor, I will be loading subsonic and trying to get an idea of how they will perform and if they will stay stable below sub speeds, and looking at your signature, might as well ask an expert who probably knows.
"You can wonder around lost or ask someone who knows".
AZ
"You can wonder around lost or ask someone who knows".
AZ
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One shot ST, have to apologize, was looking at the posts and just noticed you put a photo bucket link to your pictures. The one of the red rectangle steel looks like a bullet in a bullet shot? You guy's are still on our side aren't you? Have to ask because the clown has a tendency to embarrass us and piss everyone off? The majority of Americans are not what you see on television. Is your group a private club or just friends that shoot together.
AZ
Have to ask because the clown has a tendency to embarrass us and piss everyone off? The majority of Americans are not what you see on television. Is your group a private club or just friends that shoot together. AZ
I've used this ammo some days ago on my 20", after a 100 m zero check ( one hole ) I sent downrange from 500 meters to 832 meters 25 rounds, awesome result, all the rounds on the same POI, I've never seen a thing like this.
The meteo condition was very bad, heavy rain under thunderstorm..
these are the videos ( sorry for Italian language ), on the bad smile first target on the left 2 round on the same point, on the other one a 3 rounds group..
one shot
Awesome pics of these Italian competitions on your photobucket; looks like fun and makes you want to be there. Crappy weather makes it even better
Emouse, I did try a quick load with Varget at the first 100 yd go around. Five shots, 4 came out touching all 4 corners with my usual 1 flyer to the left. I know it doesn't count as a 5 shot group but it looked like a 4 leaf clover with no center, sub moa. That was with Nosler brass, wolf primers and 42 grains coming out at 2668 fps and did stretch the OG out to 2.210. I am planning on reducing the load by about 1 to 1.5 grains and reset the to OG 2.170 increasing my jump to the .048. If it works better, will play with some more powder volume and lengths, trying to keep my speed above 2650 so they are still supersonic at 1,000 yds, with impact @ about 575 lbf. For me it is usually the 300 yd and 500yd that will tell me if they are good to go.
I do have some IMR4320 and H4831sc but out of the two when I get time, it will probably be a load work up with the IMR4320. I have a friend that uses it and he does nice tight groups, but still a different rifle?
Still waiting for the weather to clear up a bit was @ 114 f today and probably will be for a few more weeks unless we get some rain, so just a little to warm for this old guy.
PS I really enjoy the BBC version of Top Gear, it's great.
AZ
Thats interesting,..what chamber you have in your stick? I have an M852 (straight throat) and am just off the lands. Not had to try an significant jump as yet. The Varget may be worth playing somemore with but going up a node not down?
Using once fired fully prepped and full length resized military brass at 2.005 trimmed. Murom (Wolf) primer, RS52 (same as RL15) at 43.5 grs. 2.240 measured off ogive. Makes 2780+ fps out of my AIAW with 5R barrel. Chamber is M852.
Not sure on the chambering, Savage seems a bit reluctant to give out any proprietary info on chambering. They have in the past used a 95Palma finish reamer and other match grade reamers made by different companies. I am a bit hesitant about going up to high on powder because of the short throat and until I find a comfort zone on pressure for this rifle. Normally I would go up fairly quickly but after trying a few higher up on powder, I was seeing flat primers and slight signs of gas leaks around the primer and case, so I backed down. I am not a professional shooter or involved in match shooting, but do enjoy the self challenge, so it's not imperative that I have to complete this on a schedule. My goal is to be able to shoot a 5 shot group @ 1,000 yds @ sub moa, as I have with my .243, with a box stock .308 rifle using powders that are not as popular for this bullet weight and caliber.
I read in your post your OG is @ 2.240, my max is 2.218 and as you know shortening the length drives the pressure up fairly quickly, so this is also limiting the powder volume along with the case volume.
Side note, I was on the first come first served list at Midway for some Varget, I opened the e-mail within a couple of hours, went to order and they were already sold out. So as you know the powders are still hard to find.
AZ
one shot
Awesome pics of these Italian competitions on your photobucket; looks like fun and makes you want to be there. Crappy weather makes it even better
this is the video of the match, a lot of fun, shooting from 40 meters to 1000 meters, 25 stages from 08.00 AM to 07.00 PM the competitors must carry their stuff all the time..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsWDedjIvkw
One shot ST, have to apologize, was looking at the posts and just noticed you put a photo bucket link to your pictures. The one of the red rectangle steel looks like a bullet in a bullet shot? You guy's are still on our side aren't you?
AZ
our group is a private we can join us on FB https://www.facebook.com/SkiritayLegacyShootingAssocItaly?ref_type=bookmark or in our forum, if you want you can write in English forum.skiritailegacy.com
back to the target yes, that day 2 person with 2 different rifles performed in the same way, 5 shots 2 on the smile and 3 on the other targets, distance 832 meters..
Emouse: Do you have any feeling on RS52 temp sensitivity? I use RS60 in .260rem (plan to use it on 175scnL also) and it is extremely sensitive compared to N1xx i get almost 50-70fps more with ~10°C. Huge problems when shooting long strings have to really keep round in chamber for a short time before taking a shot.
temp
I think your confusing yourself a little,..if temp goes up then so does pressure. This is physics at work not " sensative powder". As long as you know roughly how much varience you get at different temperature extremes then it should not be an issue.
RS52 is not temp sensitive at all and its certainly the first time I have heard this? We have used it in temperatures from -3 up to +32c without any problem at all.
R60 is an excellent choice for the .260 and mimics RL17.
I think your confusing yourself a little,..if temp goes up then so does pressure. This is physics at work not " sensative powder". As long as you know roughly how much varience you get at different temperature extremes then it should not be an issue.
RS52 is not temp sensitive at all and its certainly the first time I have heard this? We have used it in temperatures from -3 up to +32c without any problem at all.
R60 is an excellent choice for the .260 and mimics RL17.
Only asking because i load in large batches of course it's irrelevant if you load before a match but still RS60 seems overly sensitive (compared to N1xx which i use) and its phenomenal speed gains are hindered by this (at least for me - that's why i asked if you know anyone else in UK that shoots RS60 and may have observed similar). But i'm glad to hear RS52 is not so sensitive i will try it thanks.
Your the first to complain,..RS60 and 52 are temp stable. In fact specifically designed to be so. Best not tell ATK,..they may want their money back! 52 is for .308 and 60 is for the 6.5's . You will be able to use RS60 for very heavy weights in .308 (208 amax?) also. Quickload has all the data in its current update.
The pressure fluctuations you claim to experience are most likely not from any powder problem.
Alliant Techsystems (NYSE: ATK) and Rheinmetall Nitrochemie of Germany/Switzerland have signed a new strategic agreement for the transfer of advanced propellant technologies from Nitrochemie to ATK. The technology transfer positions ATK as the exclusive North American provider of Extruded Impregnated (EI), Extruded Composite Low-sensitivity (ECL), Surface Coated Double Base (SCDB), and R-Type propellants. The advanced propellants enhance performance over a wide range of temperatures; provide superior Insensitive Munitions properties that improve safety and survivability; and extend shelf life and aging stability in all types of small, medium, and large caliber ammunition. ATK is the proud operator of the Radford Army Ammunition Plant (RFAAP) in Radford, Va., where it is the largest developer and producer of advanced propellants and energetics. This agreement provides an opportunity to enhance ATK's capabilities at RFAAP by creating a new surface coating and impregnating capability. A facility designed to manufacture these propellants would be operated by Rheinmetall Nitrochemie in cooperation with ATK.
The agreement is a follow-on agreement to one signed between ATK and Rheinmetall Nitrochemie in August 2005. Under the original agreement, ATK has successfully marketed Rheinmetall Nitrochemie advanced propellants in North America and has secured several research and development contracts from the U.S. Department of Defense and other commercial customers.
Rheinmetall Nitrochemie is a recognized leader in developing and producing high performance gun propellants and combustible cartridge cases with facilities at Aschau, Germany and Wimmis, Switzerland. By teaming with ATK in North America, Rheinmetall Nitrochemie is expanding its global presence and bringing new technologies to world markets.
2nd update on no update, still waiting for some rain in our area so it will open up and will be able to do some more testing. As of today and according to NOAA it does not look very promising, at least for the next couple of week's?
One shot, the video was excellent and that is quite a competition. I would well imagine the shooters who finished and the ones that did well, would be very proud of their teams and accomplishments. Bob Seger was great.
AZ
One shot, the video was excellent and that is quite a competition. I would well imagine the shooters who finished and the ones that did well, would be very proud of their teams and accomplishments. Bob Seger was great.
AZ
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Hopefully by tomorrow will have some more test data with some results and will post them. This is going to finish up the 100yd stuff and if the weather holds will be going to 300yds next week sometime, weather permitting.
AZ
AZ
Update , the rains came and most of the fire restrictions have been lifted in our area, so was able to get out and finish up the 100 yd testing. Was able to make it up to the range in Payson and came up with the following results using VV N540, AA2495 and Varget.
Weather was pretty nice at about 7:30 in the morning, 80 degrees and when I first arrived no wind. However by the time I unpacked and got the chrony out and set up, it was gusting from about 5 to 10 mph and clouds were starting to form with a front coming in, with the wind blowing left to right one time and right to left the next. If you look at the prior set of pictures you will see poi was about 1 moa low, so before I started shooting made one adjustment of 1.1 moa up and left it there until I was finished. When I go out for the next trip will be going to 300yds and if time allows 500 using a group of 6 different loads for this rifle. As you will notice speed is slow on all the cartridges, this is due to the short OG I have to set because of the short throat on this rifle chamber and having to lower the powder load to reduce pressure. I am hoping that even though a couple of them will go almost subsonic at 1,000 yds the design of the bullets will still remain stable and not wobble, we will find out?
Also on the next set will put a 3" circle around the center dot for 300 yds and a 5" circle for the ones at 500 yds to indicate sub moa hits.
Just to restate, I am not an expert or a match shooter just doing this for fun. Ultimate goal, a sub moa of five rounds in a 10" circle at 1,000 yds from my box stock 24".308 Savage.
AZ 2000
Weather was pretty nice at about 7:30 in the morning, 80 degrees and when I first arrived no wind. However by the time I unpacked and got the chrony out and set up, it was gusting from about 5 to 10 mph and clouds were starting to form with a front coming in, with the wind blowing left to right one time and right to left the next. If you look at the prior set of pictures you will see poi was about 1 moa low, so before I started shooting made one adjustment of 1.1 moa up and left it there until I was finished. When I go out for the next trip will be going to 300yds and if time allows 500 using a group of 6 different loads for this rifle. As you will notice speed is slow on all the cartridges, this is due to the short OG I have to set because of the short throat on this rifle chamber and having to lower the powder load to reduce pressure. I am hoping that even though a couple of them will go almost subsonic at 1,000 yds the design of the bullets will still remain stable and not wobble, we will find out?
Also on the next set will put a 3" circle around the center dot for 300 yds and a 5" circle for the ones at 500 yds to indicate sub moa hits.
Just to restate, I am not an expert or a match shooter just doing this for fun. Ultimate goal, a sub moa of five rounds in a 10" circle at 1,000 yds from my box stock 24".308 Savage.
AZ 2000
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