175 smk 43.5 varget vs factory federal gold match w/175 smk @ 600 yards

[abadrs]

I finally found a local range that I can shoot farther than one hundred yards. I was shooting prone at 600 yards with my reloads which are 43.5 gr varget w/175 smk bullets and cci primers oal is 2.800
Question I had was my load is worked up based on 100 yard range and usually has 1/2 to 1/4 moa groups at 100. The factory loads of federal gold match 175 smk don't shoot nearly as well at 100 but shot way better than my loads at 600 yards. Just wondering if anyone had a guess as to y ? Rem 700 SPS tactical .308. I have not chronographed the reloads. I was thinking maybe a low fps at 600 ?

 

[Absolution]

I finally found a local range that I can shoot farther than one hundred yards. I was shooting prone at 600 yards with my reloads which are 43.5 gr varget w/175 smk bullets and cci primers oal is 2.800
Question I had was my load is worked up based on 100 yard range and usually has 1/2 to 1/4 moa groups at 100. The factory loads of federal gold match 175 smk don't shoot nearly as well at 100 but shot way better than my loads at 600 yards. Just wondering if anyone had a guess as to y ? Rem 700 SPS tactical .308. I have not chronographed the reloads. I was thinking maybe a low fps at 600 ?

Well, As i recall varget should be pushing more fps at your load.

Also to my memory federal gold match is the same a mk316 which is what i shoot.

175smk
4064 at 41.7gr
federal match case <-> I use LC match. I use what I already had.
federal 210M primer

 

[abadrs]

I don't understand the inaccuracy of the load. Im glad I had the factory ammo there or I would have been thinking it was me or the rifle, factory stuff was good for 10 ring nearly every shot. I was about the 7 ring with my reloads and all over the place. I was mixing rounds during the string of shots between my loads and factory, I also use federal cases because its what I have,

 

[Geno C.]

Is it more vertical or horizontal?

Vertical is much easier to see the farther out you get. Could be that you hand loads have more volocity variance.

 

[Tempest 455]

How did you come up with 2.800 for COAL? That would be good for a Savage 10 but I think the 700 would like longer than that.

Did you measure to come up with the 2.800?

 

[FN in MT]

How did you come up with 2.800 for COAL? That would be good for a Savage 10 but I think the 700 would like longer than that.

Did you measure to come up with the 2.800?

My question as well. Your OCL is probably allowing a big JUMP to the lands. How did You come up with 2.800"?

 

[abadrs]

I measured with caliper ...not sure how else you would ?

 

[FN in MT]

Have you ever measured how FAR you can seat a bullet out of the case before hitting the lands?

You probably have quite a jump to the lands. Not all rifles LIKE a long jump. Many shoot more accurately when the bullet is seated fairly close to even touching the lands.

 

[rduckwor]

You also need to chrono your loads. Right now, you are literally shooting in the dark. I suspect your velocity is shifting round to round and thus your accuracy is shifting as well. How did you decide on your charge? Also, as others said above, you need to measure the Max OAL for your rifle. R700's typically have long throats from the factory.

Good luck

 

[abadrs]

I ran a ladder test at 100 yards.

 

[FN in MT]

I shoot a rem 700 with an old Palma Match 40X barrel, 26". I'm loading 43.1 of Varget, Lapua cases, Fed 210M primers 175 gr Bergers at 2.915" COAL and getting 2640 fps on average. I did the OCW test to come up with that load. then tried several OCL depths to further tweak for best accuracy.

Federal 175 GMM yields 2650 to 2660 FPS in the same gun.

I doubt that your velocity is your reason for poor accuracy at 600 yds. I regularly shoot out to 1K and do fine. I've even made repeated hits at our Clubs longest steel at 1260 yds with that load. No doubt 1260 yds is probably right at the edge of supper sonic.
Simply wanted to mention it to reinforce that you should be fine at 600 yds.

I'd suggest doing a search on finding OCL . I'm sure it's been covered here before.

 

[abadrs]

Now that I can shoot further than 100 yards I plan to try some different things, but as I said before I could always shoot three in a dime with the same recipe reloads at 100. I have not measured the factory OAL yet but I cant imagine it being loaded much past 2.800. Right now Im also having trouble locating 175 smk

 

[DGD6MM]

Your OAL will most likely be longer then 2.80. Try Powder Valley for 175 SMK's.

 

[abadrs]

OAL is exactly 2.800 for the federal gold, my loads are actually a little longer 2.805

 

[redirt78]

Going to tag this one for the chance of learning something

 

[krw]

It is easy for him to measure his oal. What some of yall are implying is His oal might not be where it should be, but He will be limited with his factory magazine or internal bx magazine. I am sure his throat is Looong like all factory Remington chambers. On a factory repeater He will have to keep his oal close to 2.800.

 

[Ratwhiskers]

Ok.... You seem to be wishing to duplicate a known load, with a clone.

We have problems/issues here.

You have load "A", but your base line is load "B"
The differences are.... Powder/Primer and 5thou of OAL

My thoughts would be, to either clone load "B" as closely as possible and see if you obtain the same results in accuracy. Or, you will have to fully develop load "A" to it's ultimate potential.

To expect two totally different loads to match up closely from the outset is little more than Blind Luck and a SWAG.

 

[FN in MT]

abadrs,

Mid-South Shooters Supply is showing 175 gr SMK's; "Low Stock"...... but IN stock.

FN in MT

 

[kansas]

IMO I think you have issues with the quality in you handloads. I'm not criticizing your abilities, you may not have the right equipment. You didn't say what equipment you're using so I may be wrong. The first thing I would do is invest in a Redding competition seating die. If you're not using one now you probably aren't seating the bullet square. You can buy a runout gauge to check but if you're using a Redding Comp seating die, in my experience, you won't need the gauge to check runout. There is a ton of information in the reloading section here that you can glean on loading practices to help tighten up your groups. I've found on ammo made with standard set of dies that I can shoot great groups at 100-300 yards but when I start stretching it out then reloading practices start to make a difference. Also I've tried using FGMM brass once fired and my groups are 2-4x as big as using Lapua. Don't know why. I also had to go to CCI BR2 primers to get my std deviation down. For me, and I know there is a lot of controversy on this but...using a Lee neck sizing collet die works best.

 

[pinsandpitons]

Abadrs,
Lots of good info above. re-examine loading practices and equipment, get or borrow a chrony, decide are you cloning or working up a load, it's good to know how long your throat is (PM me for an easy/cheep method), finally 100yds will not give you very good info for a ladder.

1/2" - 1/4" groups at 100yds is very good. No really, that's VERY good. Maybe concentricy issues wouldn't show at 100 but would at 600? I dunno 'bout that, but it's possible you're not seating straight. What's your press / die setup? Did I miss that?

 

[CSAR]

Am I understanding it correctly that you shot both your handloads and FGMM on the same day @ 600, and that the FGMM was much more accurate? Did you also shoot @ 100 yds that same day with your handloads and FGMM? If not, maybe a bad batch of reloads when shooting 600. You didn't mention the size of the groups @ 600 or where the group centers were falling. If group centers @ 600 between the to loads are about the same, you don't have a velocity issue. I'm running the same rifle and have just .2 more powder charge and WLR primers and the velocity is under 2500 fps. My COAL is 2.875 and will not fit the factory mag. This load is about a .75MOA load at 100 and works well out to 800 yds. I would imagine it would shoot well farther but I've never had the chance to go farther than 800.

 

[Fatelvis]

If you're getting .25-.5" groups at 100yds, I think you dont have to worry about concentricity problems at all. Any problems in that department would show up already at 100yds.

 

[rduckwor]

Google Dan Newberry and OCW. This is a reliable method for developing a good load using a 100 yard range. Once you use the OCW method to find your ideal charge weight, then you can adjust your OAL to suit your rifle. You aren't limited to mag feeding length if you are willing to single load.

FN is right on re: FGMM in terms of both velocity and OAL. You said it shot better at 600 in your rifle. That's no surprise as it is loaded to perform well in just about every rifle. That should tell you something . 2650 fps is a target velocity to work towards ( +/- depending upon your barrel length) with your loads. I suspect that you will require a bit more powder to achieve the velocity node you need. Go carefully and enjoy the trip.

 

[PorkChop]

I too had a similar problem. I got a chronogragh and found my load (43.8 varget fgmm primer win brass 175 smk) was only shooting about 2540 fps so I redid the ocw test and found a good node between 44.8-45.0 grs. All 3 had averages of about 2740 fps and all landed in the same location. My original load of 43.8 was excellent at one hundred yards but would shoot about 2 inch groups at 200. So my suggestion would be to do an ocw test and I have found they are easier to read the data when shot at two or three hundred yards. My oal is not much longer than 2.800 inches but is different on each gun.
Good luck

 

[bh-ltr]

How did you come up with 2.800 for COAL? That would be good for a Savage 10 but I think the 700 would like longer than that.

Did you measure to come up with the 2.800?

2.800 is the same as the FGMM which makes for a nice comparison. Plus 175SMK's don't seem to be all that length dependant and they do like a bit of a jump to the lands in my experience.

~Brett

 

[Pinecone]

I found that as I moved the bullets out in my gun (stock Remington barrel), the groups tightened up considerably. I load to max mag length, to the point that every so often one won't actually fit in the mag.

 

[tolnep]

i used to shoot smk 175, 43.5 varget.

i recently did some fine tuning, 175 smk, 43 varget, lapua brass, fgmm primers, 2.252 to ogive, rem 700 5r, timney trigger 24 inch barrel.

best group at 300 meters .266 MOA, 5 shots (zero wind). this weekend i shot 500 meters, some wind, some mirage .626 MOA, but less than 1 inch horizontal spread, 5 shots

avg fps for this load is 2633fps. which is very close to a box of FGMM 175 i shot a while back