Has anyone tried the 180g sst in a 308 as a subsonic round?
Thanks
Deano
Thanks
Deano
Suppressors 180g sst subs
- Thread starter xdeano
- Start date
Re: 180g sst subs
Come on! no one has tried the SST as a sub!
xdeano
Come on! no one has tried the SST as a sub!
xdeano
Re: 180g sst subs
Thanks bishop!
Thanks bishop!
Re: 180g sst subs
I see no reason why the SST wouldnt work as good if not better than the interlock. Whats your twist?
I see no reason why the SST wouldnt work as good if not better than the interlock. Whats your twist?
Re: 180g sst subs
Depends on the twist rate of the rifle...should be fine with a 1:10 or faster. The preference would be for a flat based bullet similar to the 150/170 30/30 loads. I have had good results with these in both a 1:12 and 1:10 twist rifles.
I use hbbt bullets in my Whisper and Blackout rifles as the twist rate is faster and stabelizes these quite well.
Depends on the twist rate of the rifle...should be fine with a 1:10 or faster. The preference would be for a flat based bullet similar to the 150/170 30/30 loads. I have had good results with these in both a 1:12 and 1:10 twist rifles.
I use hbbt bullets in my Whisper and Blackout rifles as the twist rate is faster and stabelizes these quite well.
Re: 180g sst subs
My twist is 11.25, i've shot the 175g SMk with really good results, but i was thinking of something a little more expandable. I'd like to try them on a coyote. The Smk tend to just pencil through and not do much damage unless it goes length wise and tumbles.
Your thoughts are welcome.
xdeano
My twist is 11.25, i've shot the 175g SMk with really good results, but i was thinking of something a little more expandable. I'd like to try them on a coyote. The Smk tend to just pencil through and not do much damage unless it goes length wise and tumbles.
Your thoughts are welcome.
xdeano
Re: 180g sst subs
I have done some testing with SS bullets on flesh, my findings showed RN bullets did far more damage than pointed bullets. The difference in wound channels was impressive. If I were you I'd give the 180RN a try if penciling through is what your trying to avoid.
I have done some testing with SS bullets on flesh, my findings showed RN bullets did far more damage than pointed bullets. The difference in wound channels was impressive. If I were you I'd give the 180RN a try if penciling through is what your trying to avoid.
Re: 180g sst subs
Only reason i was looking at the sst over say a roundnose is bc. Even at the same velocities the roundnose will slow down at a faster rate of speed based on drag. Not that ill be.shooting far but id like to keep velocity up just a hair.
But ill definitely give the roundnose a try. No hurt in trying right.
Thanks guys
deano
Only reason i was looking at the sst over say a roundnose is bc. Even at the same velocities the roundnose will slow down at a faster rate of speed based on drag. Not that ill be.shooting far but id like to keep velocity up just a hair.
But ill definitely give the roundnose a try. No hurt in trying right.
Thanks guys
deano
Re: 180g sst subs
Deano, I totally agree with your thinking. I shoot 210vld's SS and am going to try the Hornady 225bthp as well for the same reasons, shooting SS at distance with accuracy is my goal. But IF I ever hunt with them, I'll be taking headshots anyway. So Im going for accuracy over damage. But for close range hunting the 180 & 220RN would be ideal, shoot for whatever twist you've got.
Deano, I totally agree with your thinking. I shoot 210vld's SS and am going to try the Hornady 225bthp as well for the same reasons, shooting SS at distance with accuracy is my goal. But IF I ever hunt with them, I'll be taking headshots anyway. So Im going for accuracy over damage. But for close range hunting the 180 & 220RN would be ideal, shoot for whatever twist you've got.
Re: 180g sst subs
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xdeano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only reason i was looking at the sst over say a roundnose is bc. Even at the same velocities the roundnose will slow down at a faster rate of speed based on drag. Not that ill be.shooting far but id like to keep velocity up just a hair.
But ill definitely give the roundnose a try. No hurt in trying right.
Thanks guys
deano </div></div>
Remember: BC changes with velocity. Numbers published for the SST are likely in the 2700 fps range.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xdeano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only reason i was looking at the sst over say a roundnose is bc. Even at the same velocities the roundnose will slow down at a faster rate of speed based on drag. Not that ill be.shooting far but id like to keep velocity up just a hair.
But ill definitely give the roundnose a try. No hurt in trying right.
Thanks guys
deano </div></div>
Remember: BC changes with velocity. Numbers published for the SST are likely in the 2700 fps range.
Re: 180g sst subs
Yeah, i know how bc works. But all that being the same velocity in either bullet (ie 1050fps) the more aerodynamic the bullet the less effect that gravity will have upon the bullet in the form of drag. I've been through a couple of physics courses and i stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
I had really given the Lehigh Defense bullets a try but i have a hard time swallowing that big of a cost.
xdeano
Yeah, i know how bc works. But all that being the same velocity in either bullet (ie 1050fps) the more aerodynamic the bullet the less effect that gravity will have upon the bullet in the form of drag. I've been through a couple of physics courses and i stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
I had really given the Lehigh Defense bullets a try but i have a hard time swallowing that big of a cost.
xdeano
Re: 180g sst subs
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xdeano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, i know how bc works. But all that being the same velocity in either bullet (ie 1050fps) the more aerodynamic the bullet the less effect that gravity will have upon the bullet in the form of drag. I've been through a couple of physics courses and i stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
I had really given the Lehigh Defense bullets a try but i have a hard time swallowing that big of a cost.
xdeano </div></div>
Yeah, I took two years of physics in college and it taught me precisely dick about exterior ballistics. My aerodynamics class, however, did go into some detail on the differences of supersonic vs. subsonic design. Also, there have been numerous writings from guys experimenting on such things as firing SMKs boat tail first for better aerodynamics. That, however, won't address your terminal ballistics question.
Why do you even bother posting your question if you're already hell-bent on using SSTs as you seem to be? Several folks have rightly suggested you try a heavy round-nose that will accomplish everything you want.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xdeano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, i know how bc works. But all that being the same velocity in either bullet (ie 1050fps) the more aerodynamic the bullet the less effect that gravity will have upon the bullet in the form of drag. I've been through a couple of physics courses and i stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
I had really given the Lehigh Defense bullets a try but i have a hard time swallowing that big of a cost.
xdeano </div></div>
Yeah, I took two years of physics in college and it taught me precisely dick about exterior ballistics. My aerodynamics class, however, did go into some detail on the differences of supersonic vs. subsonic design. Also, there have been numerous writings from guys experimenting on such things as firing SMKs boat tail first for better aerodynamics. That, however, won't address your terminal ballistics question.
Why do you even bother posting your question if you're already hell-bent on using SSTs as you seem to be? Several folks have rightly suggested you try a heavy round-nose that will accomplish everything you want.
Re: 180g sst subs
I dont think he's hell bent on SST's, just wanted to try them. Good BC translates to better range and accuracy, but that design gives good terminal performance only at higher velocities. The RN bullets while lacking in BC, do much better damage at SS speeds. Therefore it's simply a choice of what's more important to you; range and accuracy, or terminal performance. Thats not to say however that a RN cant be accurate.
I dont think he's hell bent on SST's, just wanted to try them. Good BC translates to better range and accuracy, but that design gives good terminal performance only at higher velocities. The RN bullets while lacking in BC, do much better damage at SS speeds. Therefore it's simply a choice of what's more important to you; range and accuracy, or terminal performance. Thats not to say however that a RN cant be accurate.
Re: 180g sst subs
Charlie Papa,
I'm by no means hell bent on the SST. I saw them the other day and though hummm. If i was going to be hell bent on my college physics i'd go and get some bullets lath turned that had some unreal high bc. I'm just looking for a happy medium. I'm just figuring that with the poly tip there will be slight deformation of the nose, which may lead to more cavitation. But that being said it sounds like the Round nose will do what i'm looking for. I'm just looking. I know about the reverse bullet idea. ehhh. doesn't appeal to me.
But like I said, if i wanted to really skin the cat i'd go with the Lehigh Defense bullets. But i'm not looking at spending the coin. That is why i even asked the question about the SST, as maybe, just maybe someone would give me some data on them from first hand experience.
Thanks CBM i'll try the RN.
Deano
Charlie Papa,
I'm by no means hell bent on the SST. I saw them the other day and though hummm. If i was going to be hell bent on my college physics i'd go and get some bullets lath turned that had some unreal high bc. I'm just looking for a happy medium. I'm just figuring that with the poly tip there will be slight deformation of the nose, which may lead to more cavitation. But that being said it sounds like the Round nose will do what i'm looking for. I'm just looking. I know about the reverse bullet idea. ehhh. doesn't appeal to me.
But like I said, if i wanted to really skin the cat i'd go with the Lehigh Defense bullets. But i'm not looking at spending the coin. That is why i even asked the question about the SST, as maybe, just maybe someone would give me some data on them from first hand experience.
Thanks CBM i'll try the RN.
Deano
Re: 180g sst subs
I think you'll find that for subsonic use the round nose will have better terminal ballistics and the change in drag is negligible for short ranges like 100-400yds. Even with the round nose the drag isn't hugely different. As far as expansion you won't get any real expansion with subs unless you go with special bullets made for it. The SST's won't expand any more or less than any other bullet made for supersonic use. Its been a big problem with subs and hunting for some time. Most serious hunters have found that upping the diameter of the bullet makes the most difference. I know guys hunting with .50's subsonic that were previously using 300 whispers. I've been shooting the .338 Benchrest with 300gr matchkings for subs and 200gr SST's for supersonic use. At 2300fps the 200's will expand well, at 1000fps they just mash the ballistic tip a little unless something solid is hit. Bigger is better for the subs and expansion of any consequence is mostly a dream.
Frank
I think you'll find that for subsonic use the round nose will have better terminal ballistics and the change in drag is negligible for short ranges like 100-400yds. Even with the round nose the drag isn't hugely different. As far as expansion you won't get any real expansion with subs unless you go with special bullets made for it. The SST's won't expand any more or less than any other bullet made for supersonic use. Its been a big problem with subs and hunting for some time. Most serious hunters have found that upping the diameter of the bullet makes the most difference. I know guys hunting with .50's subsonic that were previously using 300 whispers. I've been shooting the .338 Benchrest with 300gr matchkings for subs and 200gr SST's for supersonic use. At 2300fps the 200's will expand well, at 1000fps they just mash the ballistic tip a little unless something solid is hit. Bigger is better for the subs and expansion of any consequence is mostly a dream.
Frank
Re: 180g sst subs
In my limited experience, the drag may not be as bad, but the accuracy at distance suffers with RN bullets. When I shot the Hornady 220RN as my primary SS load, I found that the best I could do was around 1.5-2 MOA out to about 300yds. Beyond that was a total crap shoot.
Shooting the high BC Berger's I've increased my max range to nearly 500 yds with sub moa patterns when I do my part.
In my limited experience, the drag may not be as bad, but the accuracy at distance suffers with RN bullets. When I shot the Hornady 220RN as my primary SS load, I found that the best I could do was around 1.5-2 MOA out to about 300yds. Beyond that was a total crap shoot.
Shooting the high BC Berger's I've increased my max range to nearly 500 yds with sub moa patterns when I do my part.
Re: 180g sst subs
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColdBoreMiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my limited experience, the drag may not be as bad, but the accuracy at distance suffers with RN bullets. When I shot the Hornady 220RN as my primary SS load, I found that the best I could do was around 1.5-2 MOA out to about 300yds. Beyond that was a total crap shoot.
Shooting the high BC Berger's I've increased my max range to nearly 500 yds with sub moa patterns when I do my part. </div></div>
Wow, that's impressive distance! What's your dope for that?
I can't attest to accuracy differences, as my testing with subs has been limited to just a few bullets, but I've found it easier to achieve smaller velocity spreads where pressures are higher. Concerning BC, here is an example of what I have found in my research:
You'll see that BC decreases with velocity in the 175 SMK and much more drastically in the 210 SMK. However, you'll also see BC <span style="font-style: italic">increase</span> as velocity decreases with the 220 Round Nose. Since the relationship of BC and velocity isn't linear, and I don't know the math behind it, I can't speculate as to what happens at subsonic velocities. It wouldn't surprise me if the RN surpassed both SMKs, though. A teardrop shape is the most efficient shape at subsonic velocities, hence the experiments of seating boat-tail bullets backward. And I'm with you, Deano, I have no desire to play with that sort of thing where fast-burning propellants and high pressures are so near my face
Anyway, my point is that conventional wisdom changes significantly below the speed of sound. Also found in my research is a lack of a lot of data, so I'd love to see any findings any of you come up with. Thanks.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColdBoreMiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my limited experience, the drag may not be as bad, but the accuracy at distance suffers with RN bullets. When I shot the Hornady 220RN as my primary SS load, I found that the best I could do was around 1.5-2 MOA out to about 300yds. Beyond that was a total crap shoot.
Shooting the high BC Berger's I've increased my max range to nearly 500 yds with sub moa patterns when I do my part. </div></div>
Wow, that's impressive distance! What's your dope for that?
I can't attest to accuracy differences, as my testing with subs has been limited to just a few bullets, but I've found it easier to achieve smaller velocity spreads where pressures are higher. Concerning BC, here is an example of what I have found in my research:
You'll see that BC decreases with velocity in the 175 SMK and much more drastically in the 210 SMK. However, you'll also see BC <span style="font-style: italic">increase</span> as velocity decreases with the 220 Round Nose. Since the relationship of BC and velocity isn't linear, and I don't know the math behind it, I can't speculate as to what happens at subsonic velocities. It wouldn't surprise me if the RN surpassed both SMKs, though. A teardrop shape is the most efficient shape at subsonic velocities, hence the experiments of seating boat-tail bullets backward. And I'm with you, Deano, I have no desire to play with that sort of thing where fast-burning propellants and high pressures are so near my face
Anyway, my point is that conventional wisdom changes significantly below the speed of sound. Also found in my research is a lack of a lot of data, so I'd love to see any findings any of you come up with. Thanks.
Re: 180g sst subs
Its about 21 MIL's, and at that range I learned how suceptable SS loads are to any change. Wind, DA, temps, ect. all have greater effect on SS bullets as compared to the same bullets fired at supersonic speeds. The slightest breeze can blow you off by 1/2 a foot or more. Another reason I seek heavy for caliber high BC bullets.
Its about 21 MIL's, and at that range I learned how suceptable SS loads are to any change. Wind, DA, temps, ect. all have greater effect on SS bullets as compared to the same bullets fired at supersonic speeds. The slightest breeze can blow you off by 1/2 a foot or more. Another reason I seek heavy for caliber high BC bullets.
Re: 180g sst subs
Charlie Papa, Now this is the data i'm looking for! Thanks man!
I don't shoot much for subs, but i do like to have a few on hand in case I need to do a little quiet work. I guess it's time for me to just go and play with a few more then a SMK or amax.
I have though about just forgetting the 308 project and picking up a 300 whisper/BLK. Commercially produced, ready to go.
Thanks gays,
Deano
Charlie Papa, Now this is the data i'm looking for! Thanks man!
I don't shoot much for subs, but i do like to have a few on hand in case I need to do a little quiet work. I guess it's time for me to just go and play with a few more then a SMK or amax.
I have though about just forgetting the 308 project and picking up a 300 whisper/BLK. Commercially produced, ready to go.
Thanks gays,
Deano
Re: 180g sst subs
I dont know about that deano, the blackout is great for what it was designed for; SS semi auto Ar platform. But in a bolt gun it almost seems silly, why limit yourself to a Blk, when a .308 will do everything the Blk will do and much more. If you feel like taking a 100yd SS shot, you can, or a 900 yds supersonic shot, you can. The Blk doesn't offer that.
I think a purpose built .308 with an 8 or 9 twist and an 18" tube would be very versatile and do whatever you need it to.
I dont know about that deano, the blackout is great for what it was designed for; SS semi auto Ar platform. But in a bolt gun it almost seems silly, why limit yourself to a Blk, when a .308 will do everything the Blk will do and much more. If you feel like taking a 100yd SS shot, you can, or a 900 yds supersonic shot, you can. The Blk doesn't offer that.
I think a purpose built .308 with an 8 or 9 twist and an 18" tube would be very versatile and do whatever you need it to.
Re: 180g sst subs
Yeah, i understand. But I wouldn't give up my 308 for anything. If Sh hit the fan, i'd rather have a 308, i'll be able to find ammo for it anyhow. A semi auto AR platform 300BLK would be fun to have since all the scare about AR's being band again. I'd rather have a bolt gun though.
xdeano
Yeah, i understand. But I wouldn't give up my 308 for anything. If Sh hit the fan, i'd rather have a 308, i'll be able to find ammo for it anyhow.
xdeano
Similar threads
