Does anyone have any experience with these, looks like a bit of a fun gun. Heres the website.
http://www.gibbsrifle.com/1903-a4_sniper_rifle.html
http://www.gibbsrifle.com/1903-a4_sniper_rifle.html
- Thread starter nosajf
- Start date
Re: 1903A4
I don't have one from Gibbs, but I do have a replica 1903-A4. I love shooting it.
Seems like a reasonable price
I don't have one from Gibbs, but I do have a replica 1903-A4. I love shooting it.
Seems like a reasonable price
Re: 1903A4
Drill rifle receivers restored to function.
Scopes made in China and marked with the Gibbs logo to prevent fakery with the real USGI scopes.
Made in China hardwood stocks stained to look like walnut.
Barrels are new production marked with current date of manufacture at muzzle where the date would be on a USGI barrel.
New manufacture bent handle or modified handle original bolts.
(not a real USGI 1903A4 bolt)
I would think it safe to say that from the pricing noted on their website that most of the parts used come from China- I`m not very comfortable with the Chinese record of quality control.
A short review by a Guns and Ammo writer for one of their Surplus Guns special editions noted accuracy at 1 1/8" 5 shots at 100 yds.
I would rather gather a real 1903A3 and the correct parts, including the correct USGI `03A4 bolt, and have a qualified gunsmith build a clone instead of using unknown quality parts.
From my knownledge Gibbs doesn`t have the best reputation for gunsmithing quality.
Drill rifle receivers restored to function.
Scopes made in China and marked with the Gibbs logo to prevent fakery with the real USGI scopes.
Made in China hardwood stocks stained to look like walnut.
Barrels are new production marked with current date of manufacture at muzzle where the date would be on a USGI barrel.
New manufacture bent handle or modified handle original bolts.
(not a real USGI 1903A4 bolt)
I would think it safe to say that from the pricing noted on their website that most of the parts used come from China- I`m not very comfortable with the Chinese record of quality control.
A short review by a Guns and Ammo writer for one of their Surplus Guns special editions noted accuracy at 1 1/8" 5 shots at 100 yds.
I would rather gather a real 1903A3 and the correct parts, including the correct USGI `03A4 bolt, and have a qualified gunsmith build a clone instead of using unknown quality parts.
From my knownledge Gibbs doesn`t have the best reputation for gunsmithing quality.
Re: 1903A4
I had an original 1903A4 with the M73B1 scope until I sold it to a collector last month for almost $5,000. Because of its collector value I treated it like a safe queen and only shot it twice in the entire 10+ years that I owned it.
$995 sounds like a good price for a replica that you wouldn't worry about taking into the field and enjoying it for what it is, providing the quality is decent. I think that I'd like to handle one and have a close look at it before I'd lay down my money, however.
I had an original 1903A4 with the M73B1 scope until I sold it to a collector last month for almost $5,000. Because of its collector value I treated it like a safe queen and only shot it twice in the entire 10+ years that I owned it.
$995 sounds like a good price for a replica that you wouldn't worry about taking into the field and enjoying it for what it is, providing the quality is decent. I think that I'd like to handle one and have a close look at it before I'd lay down my money, however.
Re: 1903A4
That's a pretty cool rifle for a replica, and $995 doesn't seem bad. You should be able to find the real deal for a few hundred less than that, though it won't have a replica scope, mount, etc.
That's a pretty cool rifle for a replica, and $995 doesn't seem bad. You should be able to find the real deal for a few hundred less than that, though it won't have a replica scope, mount, etc.
Re: 1903A4
The lowest priced 1903s I've ever seen were usually pounded to hell and way over priced. Given the many decades of cobbled together and arsenal rebuilds, I've been reluctant to fork over hard earned dollars for something that could be trash.
I bought an old Yugo Mauser for $250.00 and don't feel hosed because I haven't been able to get a 3 shot (100 yard) group out of it that is less than 3 inches. But it was only $250.00. I'm seeing '03s' for $800-$1,200 that looked like they were dragged home, all the way across the ocean floor, from Belleau Wood: I still buy guns to shoot them.
This replica looks good, but I'd like it more in the $400-$500 range!
The lowest priced 1903s I've ever seen were usually pounded to hell and way over priced. Given the many decades of cobbled together and arsenal rebuilds, I've been reluctant to fork over hard earned dollars for something that could be trash.
I bought an old Yugo Mauser for $250.00 and don't feel hosed because I haven't been able to get a 3 shot (100 yard) group out of it that is less than 3 inches. But it was only $250.00. I'm seeing '03s' for $800-$1,200 that looked like they were dragged home, all the way across the ocean floor, from Belleau Wood: I still buy guns to shoot them.
This replica looks good, but I'd like it more in the $400-$500 range!
Re: 1903A4
I have a mint 1903 a3 and installed a bsquare scope mount weaver 3/4" rings and a weaver 440 scope. I built my rifle for about $1000 and it have all quality parts........I say building a replica from a 1903a3 is the way to go. No china crap!
I have a mint 1903 a3 and installed a bsquare scope mount weaver 3/4" rings and a weaver 440 scope. I built my rifle for about $1000 and it have all quality parts........I say building a replica from a 1903a3 is the way to go. No china crap!
Re: 1903A4
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ecdbcd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's a pretty cool rifle for a replica, and $995 doesn't seem bad. You should be able to find the real deal for a few hundred less than that, though it won't have a replica scope, mount, etc. </div></div>
You mean a few hundred(or thousand?) more than that. I agree, it's a god price and if I had the $$, wouldn't mind having one myself. Gibbs is the same company that was making Mauser type sporters a few years ago, and importing them from Britain. Remington bought the rights to them and calls them 798 or something like that.
The Gibbs are surplus Springfield actions.
http://www.gibbsrifle.com/index.html
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ecdbcd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's a pretty cool rifle for a replica, and $995 doesn't seem bad. You should be able to find the real deal for a few hundred less than that, though it won't have a replica scope, mount, etc. </div></div>
You mean a few hundred(or thousand?) more than that. I agree, it's a god price and if I had the $$, wouldn't mind having one myself. Gibbs is the same company that was making Mauser type sporters a few years ago, and importing them from Britain. Remington bought the rights to them and calls them 798 or something like that.
The Gibbs are surplus Springfield actions.
http://www.gibbsrifle.com/index.html
Re: 1903A4
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been wondering what scope was used in Saving private ryan, the scope seemed similar to the Gibbs rifle scope, but later in the movie when vin diesel gets shot he has a scope that can add lenses. And then in the church tower scene it looks like an Lymann super targetspot. The Gibbs gun may be more accurate with a bettter scope than the 2.5X model used.</div></div>
I remember reading that the scope used in the church tower scene was cobbled together by one of the specialty prop gun houses in Hollywood and didn't necessarily represent any individual scope. It might not even have worked.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been wondering what scope was used in Saving private ryan, the scope seemed similar to the Gibbs rifle scope, but later in the movie when vin diesel gets shot he has a scope that can add lenses. And then in the church tower scene it looks like an Lymann super targetspot. The Gibbs gun may be more accurate with a bettter scope than the 2.5X model used.</div></div>
I remember reading that the scope used in the church tower scene was cobbled together by one of the specialty prop gun houses in Hollywood and didn't necessarily represent any individual scope. It might not even have worked.
Re: 1903A4
I paid $1100 for this replica. Its fun to shoot and a great shooter. Lyman Alaskan, correct bolt, scope base, etc.
I paid $1100 for this replica. Its fun to shoot and a great shooter. Lyman Alaskan, correct bolt, scope base, etc.
Re: 1903A4
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been wondering what scope was used in Saving private ryan, the scope seemed similar to the Gibbs rifle scope, but later in the movie when vin diesel gets shot he has a scope that can add lenses. And then in the church tower scene it looks like an Lymann super targetspot. The Gibbs gun may be more accurate with a bettter scope than the 2.5X model used. </div></div>
The big target scope was not an Unertl, although I believe that is what it was to represent. These types of scopes were never used on the M1903a4, it was pure hollywood. The 2nd scope looked like an Lyman Alaskan or something close to that. These scopes were also not used until the Korean war, but they were the original spec for the M73. The "B" series SN Alaskans have been noted on original Korean war era rifles and this scope was eventually given the designation of M81 (crosshairs) or M82 (post) The only scopes used in WW2 were the Weaver 330C and the M73b1 (Military designation for 330C). My favorite part of the sniper on sniper scene is the "setting the range" with the parallax ring
.... Still one of the best movies of all time IMHO.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been wondering what scope was used in Saving private ryan, the scope seemed similar to the Gibbs rifle scope, but later in the movie when vin diesel gets shot he has a scope that can add lenses. And then in the church tower scene it looks like an Lymann super targetspot. The Gibbs gun may be more accurate with a bettter scope than the 2.5X model used. </div></div>
The big target scope was not an Unertl, although I believe that is what it was to represent. These types of scopes were never used on the M1903a4, it was pure hollywood. The 2nd scope looked like an Lyman Alaskan or something close to that. These scopes were also not used until the Korean war, but they were the original spec for the M73. The "B" series SN Alaskans have been noted on original Korean war era rifles and this scope was eventually given the designation of M81 (crosshairs) or M82 (post) The only scopes used in WW2 were the Weaver 330C and the M73b1 (Military designation for 330C). My favorite part of the sniper on sniper scene is the "setting the range" with the parallax ring
Re: 1903A4
That wasnt by chance a Redfield 3200 by chance in the movie. That is the only scope I could think of that has internal adjustments and still would look like an unertl. Just an idea..
That wasnt by chance a Redfield 3200 by chance in the movie. That is the only scope I could think of that has internal adjustments and still would look like an unertl. Just an idea..
Re: 1903A4
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XARMOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The big target scope was not an Unertl, although I believe that is what it was to represent. These types of scopes were never used on the M1903a4, it was pure hollywood. The 2nd scope looked like an Lyman Alaskan or something close to that. These scopes were also not used until the Korean war, but they were the original spec for the M73. The "B" series SN Alaskans have been noted on original Korean war era rifles and this scope was eventually given the designation of M81 (crosshairs) or M82 (post) The only scopes used in WW2 were the Weaver 330C and the M73b1 (Military designation for 330C). My favorite part of the sniper on sniper scene is the "setting the range" with the parallax ring .... Still one of the best movies of all time IMHO. </div></div>
Xarmor is right on here. I also suspect they were trying to mimic the old Unertls with the 2nd scope BS in Saving Private Ryan. But they only used the 330Cs (later called M73b1) on Army 03A4s in WWII.
K
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XARMOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The big target scope was not an Unertl, although I believe that is what it was to represent. These types of scopes were never used on the M1903a4, it was pure hollywood. The 2nd scope looked like an Lyman Alaskan or something close to that. These scopes were also not used until the Korean war, but they were the original spec for the M73. The "B" series SN Alaskans have been noted on original Korean war era rifles and this scope was eventually given the designation of M81 (crosshairs) or M82 (post) The only scopes used in WW2 were the Weaver 330C and the M73b1 (Military designation for 330C). My favorite part of the sniper on sniper scene is the "setting the range" with the parallax ring
Xarmor is right on here. I also suspect they were trying to mimic the old Unertls with the 2nd scope BS in Saving Private Ryan. But they only used the 330Cs (later called M73b1) on Army 03A4s in WWII.
K
Re: 1903A4
First of all, let me clarify a few things for you. The scope stuff in private ryan is retarded. They were not field swappable, and the unertl scopes didn't use the redfield rings.
The unertl 8x target scope (USMC marked) WAS used on the 1903, but NOT the 1903a3/1903a4 army rifles. In WWII the USMC used refurbed 1903a1 rifles and designated the sniper platform the m1941. This is the ONLY platform which used a unertl long tube and requires special mounting blocks (O and E). The target scopes use posa-style mounts, one is cut through the handguard, and the other sits on the action. This is the only sniper platform that is not done on the 1903a3 base rifle, except the very few oddballs from WWI that are loaded with Winchester 5a's (later Lyman took over contract with the 5x power scopes) and such on them. The rifles were converted to the 8x at the onset of the second world war. This rifle uses the C stock, and milled 1903a1 bands with parked finish. It uses the milled floorplate & triggerguard, parkerized.
The 1903a4 was the army-issue platform, and was done on a special run (several actually) of remington-made receivers. NOT all of them have the Z code in the serial number, although many seen recently do since those are now being returned to CMP from Greece and those are the ones that most often pop up right now. The serial number, regardless of code, is relocated lower on the side of the action so it is not obscured by the scope base. IF yours is obscured, the action is NOT an original production sniper. However, this does NOT mean it was not armory converted at some point by either the US or a leasing country.
The 1903a4 is equipped with the redfield 1pc turn-in base, with windage adjustment. The correct finish is parkerized, with case hardened colored screws. Rings vary based on the optic. 3/4" for the weaver 330, 7/8" for the alaskan. The rings should be parkerized with case screws also. The action is parkerized, the bolt is blued. The stamped bands & swivels are blued with blued screws. This platform uses BOTH the scant and C stock but both have the 1903a3 stamped floorplate. The C stock (was used for National Mtach rifles pre-war) is cut from a different blank and so was deemed inefficient by the army during the war. The scant is cut from the same blank as the straight stocks (non-sniper rifles), but has a different palm swell. This is what I use on my own rifle.
USMC Optics:
WWI - win/lyman 5a (5x) target
WWII - unertl 8x target
Army/1903a4 optics:
weaver 330c AKA m73b1 - first implementation, early WWII. substitution of a civy marked 330 is acceptable on clones, not all were marked in service anyway.
Lyman Alaskan: these DID enter in WWII because weaver could not meet demand. This scope was used in Korea as well. m81/m82 designation as xarmor said earlier. You can clone with a civy as long as it's not marked "new alaskan"... unless you dont care about that. There is also a few leupold clones from a small run some years ago.
m84: while primarily used on the m1d garand sniper rifle, some of these did end up on 1903a4 rifles. This optic replaced the lyman as standard on the m1d in 1945. This is very late war, and i'd be surprised if any were swapped until Korea. Who knows what guys did in the field though. This monstrosity IS out there on 1903a4's.
The 1903 was used into the early days of vietnam before the model 70 and m40 came on-scene. In this scenario, many lyman alaskans were swapped out for the 4x weaver k4-60b scope. Not sure what rings are on this one, my guess is the m40 style rings. These scopes were also used on the first m40's and was then replaced with the green (early war) or flat black (late war) redfield 3-9x40 accurange (round ocular, widefield is not technically correct).
First of all, let me clarify a few things for you. The scope stuff in private ryan is retarded. They were not field swappable, and the unertl scopes didn't use the redfield rings.
The unertl 8x target scope (USMC marked) WAS used on the 1903, but NOT the 1903a3/1903a4 army rifles. In WWII the USMC used refurbed 1903a1 rifles and designated the sniper platform the m1941. This is the ONLY platform which used a unertl long tube and requires special mounting blocks (O and E). The target scopes use posa-style mounts, one is cut through the handguard, and the other sits on the action. This is the only sniper platform that is not done on the 1903a3 base rifle, except the very few oddballs from WWI that are loaded with Winchester 5a's (later Lyman took over contract with the 5x power scopes) and such on them. The rifles were converted to the 8x at the onset of the second world war. This rifle uses the C stock, and milled 1903a1 bands with parked finish. It uses the milled floorplate & triggerguard, parkerized.
The 1903a4 was the army-issue platform, and was done on a special run (several actually) of remington-made receivers. NOT all of them have the Z code in the serial number, although many seen recently do since those are now being returned to CMP from Greece and those are the ones that most often pop up right now. The serial number, regardless of code, is relocated lower on the side of the action so it is not obscured by the scope base. IF yours is obscured, the action is NOT an original production sniper. However, this does NOT mean it was not armory converted at some point by either the US or a leasing country.
The 1903a4 is equipped with the redfield 1pc turn-in base, with windage adjustment. The correct finish is parkerized, with case hardened colored screws. Rings vary based on the optic. 3/4" for the weaver 330, 7/8" for the alaskan. The rings should be parkerized with case screws also. The action is parkerized, the bolt is blued. The stamped bands & swivels are blued with blued screws. This platform uses BOTH the scant and C stock but both have the 1903a3 stamped floorplate. The C stock (was used for National Mtach rifles pre-war) is cut from a different blank and so was deemed inefficient by the army during the war. The scant is cut from the same blank as the straight stocks (non-sniper rifles), but has a different palm swell. This is what I use on my own rifle.
USMC Optics:
WWI - win/lyman 5a (5x) target
WWII - unertl 8x target
Army/1903a4 optics:
weaver 330c AKA m73b1 - first implementation, early WWII. substitution of a civy marked 330 is acceptable on clones, not all were marked in service anyway.
Lyman Alaskan: these DID enter in WWII because weaver could not meet demand. This scope was used in Korea as well. m81/m82 designation as xarmor said earlier. You can clone with a civy as long as it's not marked "new alaskan"... unless you dont care about that. There is also a few leupold clones from a small run some years ago.
m84: while primarily used on the m1d garand sniper rifle, some of these did end up on 1903a4 rifles. This optic replaced the lyman as standard on the m1d in 1945. This is very late war, and i'd be surprised if any were swapped until Korea. Who knows what guys did in the field though. This monstrosity IS out there on 1903a4's.
The 1903 was used into the early days of vietnam before the model 70 and m40 came on-scene. In this scenario, many lyman alaskans were swapped out for the 4x weaver k4-60b scope. Not sure what rings are on this one, my guess is the m40 style rings. These scopes were also used on the first m40's and was then replaced with the green (early war) or flat black (late war) redfield 3-9x40 accurange (round ocular, widefield is not technically correct).
Re: 1903A4
Great info. I hope to build a "shooter" replica of a WWII USMC '03 some day.
Great info. I hope to build a "shooter" replica of a WWII USMC '03 some day.
Re: 1903A4
Here is a picture of a very early production M1903a4 that was a Viet Nam bring back. Rifle was brought back in late 1970. This rifle has the K4-60B scope on it.
Here is a picture of a very early production M1903a4 that was a Viet Nam bring back. Rifle was brought back in late 1970. This rifle has the K4-60B scope on it.
Re: 1903A4
My Father in Law brought this rifle back after his 3rd tour in VN. He originally joined the Marines and did his 1st tour in 1966. H was severely wounded in late 1966 and spent about 8 months in the hospital. He was medically discharged from the Corps but allowed to enlist in the Army so he did. He went back to Vietnam in 67 and was shot again in 1968. He volunteered to go back to VN in 1969 after completing OCS. He was assigned to an MI unit that worked closely with the South Vietnamese trying to win the hearts and minds of villagers in the surrounding hamlets. This is where the A4 came onto the scene. Most of the weapons given to the RVN for these missions were WW2 surplus. In Feb of 1970 he was caught in an ambush and wounded. He was carrying an M1 carbine and this A4 when he was hit. The weapons were recovered by other men in his platoon along with a German Luger and an SKS (Vietnamese made). The VC that shot him was carrying the SKS and a VC officer had the Luger, neither one needed it anymore. When he was released from the hospital he retrieved the A4, the carbine and the sks/Luger combo from his comrades and he shipped them home in a duffle bag. I am guessing from his MI connections that he was able to pull some strings and ship U.S. weapons as this was normally not done. Anyway, fast forward 20 years.... this rifle, the M1 and Luger were given to us as a wedding gift in 1990. I have treasured them ever since and will pass them on to my son. This rifle has not been fired since it left VN. He kept the SKS since the last rounds it fired ended up in him!! Needless to say I never fuck with the guy. Anyway thats the story as I remember it, this ol gal made it through 3 wars and probably has a pretty shady past....
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Here is the paperwork for the SKS, luger and 03a4 (notice they called it a Springfield!!)</span></span>
My Father in Law brought this rifle back after his 3rd tour in VN. He originally joined the Marines and did his 1st tour in 1966. H was severely wounded in late 1966 and spent about 8 months in the hospital. He was medically discharged from the Corps but allowed to enlist in the Army so he did. He went back to Vietnam in 67 and was shot again in 1968. He volunteered to go back to VN in 1969 after completing OCS. He was assigned to an MI unit that worked closely with the South Vietnamese trying to win the hearts and minds of villagers in the surrounding hamlets. This is where the A4 came onto the scene. Most of the weapons given to the RVN for these missions were WW2 surplus. In Feb of 1970 he was caught in an ambush and wounded. He was carrying an M1 carbine and this A4 when he was hit. The weapons were recovered by other men in his platoon along with a German Luger and an SKS (Vietnamese made). The VC that shot him was carrying the SKS and a VC officer had the Luger, neither one needed it anymore. When he was released from the hospital he retrieved the A4, the carbine and the sks/Luger combo from his comrades and he shipped them home in a duffle bag. I am guessing from his MI connections that he was able to pull some strings and ship U.S. weapons as this was normally not done. Anyway, fast forward 20 years.... this rifle, the M1 and Luger were given to us as a wedding gift in 1990. I have treasured them ever since and will pass them on to my son. This rifle has not been fired since it left VN. He kept the SKS since the last rounds it fired ended up in him!! Needless to say I never fuck with the guy. Anyway thats the story as I remember it, this ol gal made it through 3 wars and probably has a pretty shady past....
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Here is the paperwork for the SKS, luger and 03a4 (notice they called it a Springfield!!)</span></span>
Re: 1903A4
Might be getting an '03A3 and an M1 Garand on the cheep, will post pics and details when I get em.
edited to add: The rifles presumably are from WWII, owner was in the service from 37-43 iirc, and brought some souveneirs back.
Might be getting an '03A3 and an M1 Garand on the cheep, will post pics and details when I get em.
edited to add: The rifles presumably are from WWII, owner was in the service from 37-43 iirc, and brought some souveneirs back.
Re: 1903A4
The 03A4 was a wartime "make do" and basically an ordinary 03A3 lacking the sight and with a different receiver marking (so you could see the serial #). Worth a lot of money but not much of a shooter. Now if you could get a real USMC 03' sniper (as shown below) you would have something. These were 03 National Match rifles with 8X Unertls and will shoot with anything. I had one a few years ago that had never been to war and was missing the scope
(worth about 5 grand alone!). I put a 10X Targetspot on it and proceeded to punch out 10 shot sub MOA groups with 180 SMKs with no tuning at all. They were real Springfields, not a wartime roughly made, crude attempt at a "sniper rifle" (Is there a worse scope than a Weaver 330?)
The 03A4 was a wartime "make do" and basically an ordinary 03A3 lacking the sight and with a different receiver marking (so you could see the serial #). Worth a lot of money but not much of a shooter. Now if you could get a real USMC 03' sniper (as shown below) you would have something. These were 03 National Match rifles with 8X Unertls and will shoot with anything. I had one a few years ago that had never been to war and was missing the scope
(worth about 5 grand alone!). I put a 10X Targetspot on it and proceeded to punch out 10 shot sub MOA groups with 180 SMKs with no tuning at all. They were real Springfields, not a wartime roughly made, crude attempt at a "sniper rifle" (Is there a worse scope than a Weaver 330?)
Re: 1903A4
You and your dislike of the 03A3's Humble...
You and your dislike of the 03A3's Humble...
Re: 1903A4
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 03A4 was a wartime "make do" and basically an ordinary 03A3 lacking the sight and with a different receiver marking (so you could see the serial #). Worth a lot of money but not much of a shooter. Now if you could get a real USMC 03' sniper (as shown below) you would have something. These were 03 National Match rifles with 8X Unertls and will shoot with anything. I had one a few years ago that had never been to war and was missing the scope
(worth about 5 grand alone!). I put a 10X Targetspot on it and proceeded to punch out 10 shot sub MOA groups with 180 SMKs with no tuning at all. They were real Springfields, not a wartime roughly made, crude attempt at a "sniper rifle" (Is there a worse scope than a Weaver 330?)
</div></div>
Comparing the M1941 to an 03a4 is like comparing GAP to a factory Remington. The M1941 was built by USMC armorers and there were very few made (about 1500), by contrast there were almost 30,000 A4's built in just 12 months. The A4 was not a good sniper rifle because the optics sucked so bad, the rifles will actually shoot pretty good (not sub MOA). Much harder to shoot sub MOA with a 2.5X scope than an 8X target scope. But overall I do agree, the A4 was pretty crappy. The Weaver is good for a .22 cal rifle in perfect weather conditions, it fails at everything else.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 03A4 was a wartime "make do" and basically an ordinary 03A3 lacking the sight and with a different receiver marking (so you could see the serial #). Worth a lot of money but not much of a shooter. Now if you could get a real USMC 03' sniper (as shown below) you would have something. These were 03 National Match rifles with 8X Unertls and will shoot with anything. I had one a few years ago that had never been to war and was missing the scope
(worth about 5 grand alone!). I put a 10X Targetspot on it and proceeded to punch out 10 shot sub MOA groups with 180 SMKs with no tuning at all. They were real Springfields, not a wartime roughly made, crude attempt at a "sniper rifle" (Is there a worse scope than a Weaver 330?)
Comparing the M1941 to an 03a4 is like comparing GAP to a factory Remington. The M1941 was built by USMC armorers and there were very few made (about 1500), by contrast there were almost 30,000 A4's built in just 12 months. The A4 was not a good sniper rifle because the optics sucked so bad, the rifles will actually shoot pretty good (not sub MOA). Much harder to shoot sub MOA with a 2.5X scope than an 8X target scope. But overall I do agree, the A4 was pretty crappy. The Weaver is good for a .22 cal rifle in perfect weather conditions, it fails at everything else.
Re: 1903A4
I don't dislike 03A3/4s, I just like real Springfields a lot better. It's kinda like comparing a 1939 DOT K98 to a 1945 last ditch cast and stamped "98".
For the kinda money people are pissing away on 03A3s, you could buy a minty type 96 Mauser Swedish in 6.5x55 and have a beautiful MOA or less rifle that also kicks a lot less.
Fine 03' snipers were also built for the USMC in WW ONE with a Winchester A5 scopes. They were also far superior to the 03A4 even with the dim WRA scope. Nice photo of one on Canfield's 03 book.
My Hoffer with that scope:
I don't dislike 03A3/4s, I just like real Springfields a lot better. It's kinda like comparing a 1939 DOT K98 to a 1945 last ditch cast and stamped "98".
For the kinda money people are pissing away on 03A3s, you could buy a minty type 96 Mauser Swedish in 6.5x55 and have a beautiful MOA or less rifle that also kicks a lot less.
Fine 03' snipers were also built for the USMC in WW ONE with a Winchester A5 scopes. They were also far superior to the 03A4 even with the dim WRA scope. Nice photo of one on Canfield's 03 book.
My Hoffer with that scope:
Re: 1903A4
I don't think the 03a4 is that inferior, it's just a different bird. It's more of a hunting rifle than a target rifle. Hunting people maybe, but hunting none the less. Remember, optics technology was limited in the day. IMHO, the Lyman Alaskan is worlds better than the m73b1. The 4x weavers from 'nam are an even better upgrade.
Personally, I wouldn't want to drag the USMC rifle through the black forest in freezing fucking January. I have an a1, and it's a heavy SOB even with the stock cut down and a small fixed scope on it. Also keep in mind that alot of sniping in WWII was done in urban settings, in the ruins of cities. At the closer ranges, the 8x could often be too much scope.
They both have their place, no doubt. I'll put up some pics of the a4 clone I'm working on. I don't have the bands yet, gotta order some repro's from numrich.
xarmor, that is a VERY nice rifle, and a really cool history. I'll put up some pics of a different sort WWII bring back later with the 1903 pics.
I have a bunch of "salvage" weaver k4's if anyone who has one on a 1903 or early m40 needs any parts. I don't have any turret caps, but if you need guts I can probably hook you up. Iron sight and a couple other places can still repair these.
I don't think the 03a4 is that inferior, it's just a different bird. It's more of a hunting rifle than a target rifle. Hunting people maybe, but hunting none the less. Remember, optics technology was limited in the day. IMHO, the Lyman Alaskan is worlds better than the m73b1. The 4x weavers from 'nam are an even better upgrade.
Personally, I wouldn't want to drag the USMC rifle through the black forest in freezing fucking January. I have an a1, and it's a heavy SOB even with the stock cut down and a small fixed scope on it. Also keep in mind that alot of sniping in WWII was done in urban settings, in the ruins of cities. At the closer ranges, the 8x could often be too much scope.
They both have their place, no doubt. I'll put up some pics of the a4 clone I'm working on. I don't have the bands yet, gotta order some repro's from numrich.
xarmor, that is a VERY nice rifle, and a really cool history. I'll put up some pics of a different sort WWII bring back later with the 1903 pics.
I have a bunch of "salvage" weaver k4's if anyone who has one on a 1903 or early m40 needs any parts. I don't have any turret caps, but if you need guts I can probably hook you up. Iron sight and a couple other places can still repair these.
Re: 1903A4
ok, here we go. This is my clone project, minus the front bands which are the only thing I have left to order. The bolt handle isn't quite right, but it's something that will have to do for now.
The scope is not a lyman, it's an OLD weaver clone. I will buy a alaskan or 330c for this at some point, it's just not something I want to invest in right now when this one works fine. I also have a 4x weaver to put on for the vietnam look.
I will probably duracoat the barrelled action and blue the bolt for the correct finish.
Here is the bringback, a k43 in nearly mint condition. WWII bring back from a relative. Sling cut was modified, but I have "un-modified" it. Only missing sling, cleaning rod, and the oiler. It did have the spare bolt head and extractor in the buttstock.
ok, here we go. This is my clone project, minus the front bands which are the only thing I have left to order. The bolt handle isn't quite right, but it's something that will have to do for now.
The scope is not a lyman, it's an OLD weaver clone. I will buy a alaskan or 330c for this at some point, it's just not something I want to invest in right now when this one works fine. I also have a 4x weaver to put on for the vietnam look.
I will probably duracoat the barrelled action and blue the bolt for the correct finish.
Here is the bringback, a k43 in nearly mint condition. WWII bring back from a relative. Sling cut was modified, but I have "un-modified" it. Only missing sling, cleaning rod, and the oiler. It did have the spare bolt head and extractor in the buttstock.
Re: 1903A4
A minor point, but no 03A4s were ever issued in Viet Nam or anywhere else with Weaver K4s. If any were even issued in Nam, they would have had 330s, Alaskans or M82s on them. The only sniper rifles I ever saw there were Model 70s and Remington 700s or their military equivalent. If anyone has documentation of 03A4s being carried by US troops in Nam' it would be of great interest.
The Model 70s carried Unertl or Lyman target type scopes and the Remingtons had Redfield 3-9s. There were also some internal adjustment Unertls as well as the infamous (still a piece of crap) Leatherwoods.
There were also scope equipped M-1s: Alaskan, M82/4, Kollmorgen and some scoped M-14s.
What local units might have done or black ops folks...who knows, but K-4s were never official issue.
A minor point, but no 03A4s were ever issued in Viet Nam or anywhere else with Weaver K4s. If any were even issued in Nam, they would have had 330s, Alaskans or M82s on them. The only sniper rifles I ever saw there were Model 70s and Remington 700s or their military equivalent. If anyone has documentation of 03A4s being carried by US troops in Nam' it would be of great interest.
The Model 70s carried Unertl or Lyman target type scopes and the Remingtons had Redfield 3-9s. There were also some internal adjustment Unertls as well as the infamous (still a piece of crap) Leatherwoods.
There were also scope equipped M-1s: Alaskan, M82/4, Kollmorgen and some scoped M-14s.
What local units might have done or black ops folks...who knows, but K-4s were never official issue.
Re: 1903A4
Mr. Humble, please look at the post above you will see the document that shows this rifle as being shipped from Vietnam in 1970. The man that carried it is the one that gave it to me. All of the weapons on that document are still in the family. I also never said the rifle was issued to him by his (U.S.) unit. It was used in operations that he was associated with while assigned to a South Vietnamese unit in 1969-1970. I also disagree about the K4-60B being in Vietnam, I have seen several original M1D's with the Weaver that came documented from the DCM/CMP, why else would there be a standard 1" M1D mount produced? This A4 also has 1" parkerized jr. rings, I can not think of another reason for these to be around other than off the shelf 1" scopes were used. I obviously was not there and you probably know a bunch more than I do about weapons used there, but this A4 was used there and the man that used it is still around to talk about it. This rifle is probably one of the few U.S weapons that is a true bring back from Vietnam.
Mr. Humble, please look at the post above you will see the document that shows this rifle as being shipped from Vietnam in 1970. The man that carried it is the one that gave it to me. All of the weapons on that document are still in the family. I also never said the rifle was issued to him by his (U.S.) unit. It was used in operations that he was associated with while assigned to a South Vietnamese unit in 1969-1970. I also disagree about the K4-60B being in Vietnam, I have seen several original M1D's with the Weaver that came documented from the DCM/CMP, why else would there be a standard 1" M1D mount produced? This A4 also has 1" parkerized jr. rings, I can not think of another reason for these to be around other than off the shelf 1" scopes were used. I obviously was not there and you probably know a bunch more than I do about weapons used there, but this A4 was used there and the man that used it is still around to talk about it. This rifle is probably one of the few U.S weapons that is a true bring back from Vietnam.
Re: 1903A4
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcw1284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok, here we go. This is my clone project, minus the front bands which are the only thing I have left to order. The bolt handle isn't quite right, but it's something that will have to do for now.
The scope is not a lyman, it's an OLD weaver clone. I will buy a alaskan or 330c for this at some point, it's just not something I want to invest in right now when this one works fine. I also have a 4x weaver to put on for the vietnam look.
I will probably duracoat the barrelled action and blue the bolt for the correct finish.
Here is the bringback, a k43 in nearly mint condition. WWII bring back from a relative. Sling cut was modified, but I have "un-modified" it. Only missing sling, cleaning rod, and the oiler. It did have the spare bolt head and extractor in the buttstock.
</div></div>
Beautiful rifles BCW!! I am jealous of the K43 (Hitlers Garand). Beautiful piece of history. Your A4 clone is looking excellent, nice job. It will be fun to take to the range and will always draw a crowd. I know a guy that can reproduce the original greenish grey parkeriaztion if you ever decide to go that route.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcw1284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok, here we go. This is my clone project, minus the front bands which are the only thing I have left to order. The bolt handle isn't quite right, but it's something that will have to do for now.
The scope is not a lyman, it's an OLD weaver clone. I will buy a alaskan or 330c for this at some point, it's just not something I want to invest in right now when this one works fine. I also have a 4x weaver to put on for the vietnam look.
I will probably duracoat the barrelled action and blue the bolt for the correct finish.
Here is the bringback, a k43 in nearly mint condition. WWII bring back from a relative. Sling cut was modified, but I have "un-modified" it. Only missing sling, cleaning rod, and the oiler. It did have the spare bolt head and extractor in the buttstock.
Beautiful rifles BCW!! I am jealous of the K43 (Hitlers Garand). Beautiful piece of history. Your A4 clone is looking excellent, nice job. It will be fun to take to the range and will always draw a crowd. I know a guy that can reproduce the original greenish grey parkeriaztion if you ever decide to go that route.
Re: 1903A4
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XARMOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 03A4 was a wartime "make do" and basically an ordinary 03A3 lacking the sight and with a different receiver marking (so you could see the serial #). Worth a lot of money but not much of a shooter. Now if you could get a real USMC 03' sniper (as shown below) you would have something. These were 03 National Match rifles with 8X Unertls and will shoot with anything. I had one a few years ago that had never been to war and was missing the scope
(worth about 5 grand alone!). I put a 10X Targetspot on it and proceeded to punch out 10 shot sub MOA groups with 180 SMKs with no tuning at all. They were real Springfields, not a wartime roughly made, crude attempt at a "sniper rifle" (Is there a worse scope than a Weaver 330?)
</div></div>
Comparing the M1941 to an 03a4 is like comparing GAP to a factory Remington. The M1941 was built by USMC armorers and there were very few made (about 1500), by contrast there were almost 30,000 A4's built in just 12 months. The A4 was not a good sniper rifle because the optics sucked so bad, the rifles will actually shoot pretty good (not sub MOA). Much harder to shoot sub MOA with a 2.5X scope than an 8X target scope. But overall I do agree, the A4 was pretty crappy. The Weaver is good for a .22 cal rifle in perfect weather conditions, it fails at everything else. </div></div>
The USMC M1941 made a great target rifle, but not such a great sniper rifle when used in actual combat conditions. The USMC had so many problems in the field with this rifle during WWII in the Pacific island-hopping campaign due to its Unertl scope that the Corps actually cancelled the Unertl contract and took steps to equip its snipers with the "crappy" US Army '03A4/Weaver 330C (which didn't "fail" in jungle fighting as the Unertl did) in early 1944. So much for the effectiveness of the legendary M1941/Unertl 8X combination. Call BS if you wish, but I've got the evidence, including the memo numbers of the official USMC corespondence on this matter to prove what I've posted.
Granted, the M1941 is nicely finished and much more accurate than the '03A4, but that doesn't win battles. Reference the AK for the truth of that! However, only the early M1941 USMC sniper rifles were of the National Match variety with the star gauged barrels. The Corps ran out of these rather quickly and built many of the M1941's at its Philadelphia Armory by assembling them out of service grade rifles by rebarreling and bedding them into new type C stocks. This is not to say that these weren't superbly built accurate rifles. I'm only mentioning it to dispel the common myth that all M1941's came from NM origins.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XARMOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 03A4 was a wartime "make do" and basically an ordinary 03A3 lacking the sight and with a different receiver marking (so you could see the serial #). Worth a lot of money but not much of a shooter. Now if you could get a real USMC 03' sniper (as shown below) you would have something. These were 03 National Match rifles with 8X Unertls and will shoot with anything. I had one a few years ago that had never been to war and was missing the scope
(worth about 5 grand alone!). I put a 10X Targetspot on it and proceeded to punch out 10 shot sub MOA groups with 180 SMKs with no tuning at all. They were real Springfields, not a wartime roughly made, crude attempt at a "sniper rifle" (Is there a worse scope than a Weaver 330?)
Comparing the M1941 to an 03a4 is like comparing GAP to a factory Remington. The M1941 was built by USMC armorers and there were very few made (about 1500), by contrast there were almost 30,000 A4's built in just 12 months. The A4 was not a good sniper rifle because the optics sucked so bad, the rifles will actually shoot pretty good (not sub MOA). Much harder to shoot sub MOA with a 2.5X scope than an 8X target scope. But overall I do agree, the A4 was pretty crappy. The Weaver is good for a .22 cal rifle in perfect weather conditions, it fails at everything else. </div></div>
The USMC M1941 made a great target rifle, but not such a great sniper rifle when used in actual combat conditions. The USMC had so many problems in the field with this rifle during WWII in the Pacific island-hopping campaign due to its Unertl scope that the Corps actually cancelled the Unertl contract and took steps to equip its snipers with the "crappy" US Army '03A4/Weaver 330C (which didn't "fail" in jungle fighting as the Unertl did) in early 1944. So much for the effectiveness of the legendary M1941/Unertl 8X combination. Call BS if you wish, but I've got the evidence, including the memo numbers of the official USMC corespondence on this matter to prove what I've posted.
Granted, the M1941 is nicely finished and much more accurate than the '03A4, but that doesn't win battles. Reference the AK for the truth of that! However, only the early M1941 USMC sniper rifles were of the National Match variety with the star gauged barrels. The Corps ran out of these rather quickly and built many of the M1941's at its Philadelphia Armory by assembling them out of service grade rifles by rebarreling and bedding them into new type C stocks. This is not to say that these weren't superbly built accurate rifles. I'm only mentioning it to dispel the common myth that all M1941's came from NM origins.
Re: 1903A4
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A minor point, but no 03A4s were ever issued in Viet Nam or anywhere else with Weaver K4s. If any were even issued in Nam, they would have had 330s, Alaskans or M82s on them. The only sniper rifles I ever saw there were Model 70s and Remington 700s or their military equivalent. If anyone has documentation of 03A4s being carried by US troops in Nam' it would be of great interest.
The Model 70s carried Unertl or Lyman target type scopes and the Remingtons had Redfield 3-9s. There were also some internal adjustment Unertls as well as the infamous (still a piece of crap) Leatherwoods.
There were also scope equipped M-1s: Alaskan, M82/4, Kollmorgen and some scoped M-14s.
What local units might have done or black ops folks...who knows, but K-4s were never official issue.</div></div>
There's issued .....and there's "issued" if you can understand the difference
True, the '03A4's weren't issued to regular US troops in VN. But many '03A4's saw combat there, especially in the years 1964 through 1966. These rifles were procured from US Army warehouses by the old MAGV (yes, MAGV) which was run by the Clowns In Action back then before it was pulled out of their hands and turned over to the Army (and renamed MAC-V). These rifles were mostly equipped with Weaver K4's (they were not arsenaled with their original scopes intact) and given by MAGV to various "elite" ARVN units. They were also "issued" to some of the insurgent tribes (Montangnard, Hmong, etc.) by US Special Forces units that were operating in outlying areas of the RVN, also Laos and Cambodia.
So both posters are correct -
No, the A4/K4 wasn't issued to regular US troops in VN, but yes it was "issued" to ARVN untis through MAGV and "issued" to SF units to equip and train the insurgent tribes. The A4/K4 definitely has a history in the SEA conflict.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A minor point, but no 03A4s were ever issued in Viet Nam or anywhere else with Weaver K4s. If any were even issued in Nam, they would have had 330s, Alaskans or M82s on them. The only sniper rifles I ever saw there were Model 70s and Remington 700s or their military equivalent. If anyone has documentation of 03A4s being carried by US troops in Nam' it would be of great interest.
The Model 70s carried Unertl or Lyman target type scopes and the Remingtons had Redfield 3-9s. There were also some internal adjustment Unertls as well as the infamous (still a piece of crap) Leatherwoods.
There were also scope equipped M-1s: Alaskan, M82/4, Kollmorgen and some scoped M-14s.
What local units might have done or black ops folks...who knows, but K-4s were never official issue.</div></div>
There's issued .....and there's "issued" if you can understand the difference
True, the '03A4's weren't issued to regular US troops in VN. But many '03A4's saw combat there, especially in the years 1964 through 1966. These rifles were procured from US Army warehouses by the old MAGV (yes, MAGV) which was run by the Clowns In Action back then before it was pulled out of their hands and turned over to the Army (and renamed MAC-V). These rifles were mostly equipped with Weaver K4's (they were not arsenaled with their original scopes intact) and given by MAGV to various "elite" ARVN units. They were also "issued" to some of the insurgent tribes (Montangnard, Hmong, etc.) by US Special Forces units that were operating in outlying areas of the RVN, also Laos and Cambodia.
So both posters are correct -
No, the A4/K4 wasn't issued to regular US troops in VN, but yes it was "issued" to ARVN untis through MAGV and "issued" to SF units to equip and train the insurgent tribes. The A4/K4 definitely has a history in the SEA conflict.
Re: 1903A4
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smudaaar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a mint 1903 a3 and installed a bsquare scope mount weaver 3/4" rings and a weaver 440 scope. I built my rifle for about $1000 and it have all quality parts........I say building a replica from a 1903a3 is the way to go. No china crap! </div></div>
Yep!
I've been considering doing this, maybe wait for an original era scope...
I've hadt his 1903A3 since 1978 or so...it has history
My job when we got it was to remove the cosmoline, re-finished in 5/45 at RA, original Remington built.
THe barrel was never cut - recently began picking up parts - got an original front NEW sight band.
I need to get my rifle out and take a pic, sad that it only gets shot once a year.
This was me in alaska in 1989. M1903A3, custom built stock, bedded, with a Tasco 4x32 1970's vintage light gathering scope (WORKS at early down or late dusk)...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smudaaar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a mint 1903 a3 and installed a bsquare scope mount weaver 3/4" rings and a weaver 440 scope. I built my rifle for about $1000 and it have all quality parts........I say building a replica from a 1903a3 is the way to go. No china crap! </div></div>
Yep!
I've been considering doing this, maybe wait for an original era scope...
I've hadt his 1903A3 since 1978 or so...it has history
My job when we got it was to remove the cosmoline, re-finished in 5/45 at RA, original Remington built.
THe barrel was never cut - recently began picking up parts - got an original front NEW sight band.
I need to get my rifle out and take a pic, sad that it only gets shot once a year.
This was me in alaska in 1989. M1903A3, custom built stock, bedded, with a Tasco 4x32 1970's vintage light gathering scope (WORKS at early down or late dusk)...
Re: 1903A4
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 03A4 was a wartime "make do" and basically an ordinary 03A3 lacking the sight and with a different receiver marking (so you could see the serial #). Worth a lot of money but not much of a shooter. Now if you could get a real USMC 03' sniper (as shown below) you would have something. These were 03 National Match rifles with 8X Unertls and will shoot with anything. I had one a few years ago that had never been to war and was missing the scope
(worth about 5 grand alone!). I put a 10X Targetspot on it and proceeded to punch out 10 shot sub MOA groups with 180 SMKs with no tuning at all. They were real Springfields, not a wartime roughly made, crude attempt at a "sniper rifle" (Is there a worse scope than a Weaver 330?)
</div></div>
Aside from having a spring on the scope tube, there is a shop here that has a rifle in all original condition(very Good) that looks just like that. The guy isn't sure what it's worth and will more than likely make a good deal on it. I looked at it, adn let him know it wasn't a sniper rifle, but rather a older competition rifle set for NRA comps, and not close to what he thought it was worth. I do not have the 2 - 3 G's he wants for it, but if I could find some proof it's not worth that much....just saying, it's there for the right guy
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 03A4 was a wartime "make do" and basically an ordinary 03A3 lacking the sight and with a different receiver marking (so you could see the serial #). Worth a lot of money but not much of a shooter. Now if you could get a real USMC 03' sniper (as shown below) you would have something. These were 03 National Match rifles with 8X Unertls and will shoot with anything. I had one a few years ago that had never been to war and was missing the scope
(worth about 5 grand alone!). I put a 10X Targetspot on it and proceeded to punch out 10 shot sub MOA groups with 180 SMKs with no tuning at all. They were real Springfields, not a wartime roughly made, crude attempt at a "sniper rifle" (Is there a worse scope than a Weaver 330?)
Aside from having a spring on the scope tube, there is a shop here that has a rifle in all original condition(very Good) that looks just like that. The guy isn't sure what it's worth and will more than likely make a good deal on it. I looked at it, adn let him know it wasn't a sniper rifle, but rather a older competition rifle set for NRA comps, and not close to what he thought it was worth. I do not have the 2 - 3 G's he wants for it, but if I could find some proof it's not worth that much....just saying, it's there for the right guy
Re: 1903A4
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike Hull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Gibbs is the same company that was making Mauser type sporters a few years ago, and importing them from Britain. Remington bought the rights to them and calls them 798 or something like that.
The Gibbs are surplus Springfield actions.
http://www.gibbsrifle.com/index.html</div></div>
The Remingtons that are being called the 798 is made in Zvastad, Yugoslavia (spell it how you may), and have nothing to do with Gibbs nor Great Brittian, fortunately for both.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike Hull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Gibbs is the same company that was making Mauser type sporters a few years ago, and importing them from Britain. Remington bought the rights to them and calls them 798 or something like that.
The Gibbs are surplus Springfield actions.
http://www.gibbsrifle.com/index.html</div></div>
The Remingtons that are being called the 798 is made in Zvastad, Yugoslavia (spell it how you may), and have nothing to do with Gibbs nor Great Brittian, fortunately for both.
Re: 1903A4
Billy, why don't you produce a photo or some documentation of somebody in Nam carrying an 03A4 with a K4? Also maybe copies of the government procurements of K4s from Weaver? I think I own every book on sniping ever printed (I am a book publisher) and I'll be damned if I can find any mention of a K4 ever being used by anyone in Viet Nam.
I'm guessing you have the Kollmorgen 4X used by the USMC in Korea on their sniper M-1s confused with the K4. (the "koli" was three times the scope of any weaver, and did not rust either)
But, I'd love to see one as it would be a new piece of history for sniping buffs.
Billy, why don't you produce a photo or some documentation of somebody in Nam carrying an 03A4 with a K4? Also maybe copies of the government procurements of K4s from Weaver? I think I own every book on sniping ever printed (I am a book publisher) and I'll be damned if I can find any mention of a K4 ever being used by anyone in Viet Nam.
I'm guessing you have the Kollmorgen 4X used by the USMC in Korea on their sniper M-1s confused with the K4. (the "koli" was three times the scope of any weaver, and did not rust either)
But, I'd love to see one as it would be a new piece of history for sniping buffs.
Re: 1903A4
Proof from a guy that carried it and was shot 3 times isn't enough for you? Nobody said the a4 was standard issue, we said it was USED in the early stages of the war. Hell, some of them are probably still "left behind" over there.
The weaver k4 was put on them, several bringbacks have them. The very early m40's had some too, there was one that sold on this board not too long ago. US marked, used in nam.
Humble, either be helpful or GTFO. Stop shitting on people's threads. Go read another book and continue to ignore reality. It's in ink somewhere, so it must be true, right? rofl.
You want to see one, look at the one xarmor posted. How fucking dense can you be?
Proof from a guy that carried it and was shot 3 times isn't enough for you? Nobody said the a4 was standard issue, we said it was USED in the early stages of the war. Hell, some of them are probably still "left behind" over there.
The weaver k4 was put on them, several bringbacks have them. The very early m40's had some too, there was one that sold on this board not too long ago. US marked, used in nam.
Humble, either be helpful or GTFO. Stop shitting on people's threads. Go read another book and continue to ignore reality. It's in ink somewhere, so it must be true, right? rofl.
You want to see one, look at the one xarmor posted. How fucking dense can you be?
Re: 1903A4
I am not sure what the hell my FIL was thinking when he did not contact Peter Senich and have this rifle photographed for his book, sometimes he just doesn't think clearly.
Also if the MC-1 was such a great scope why did the Marines seldom (if ever) use it in combat? Until the M40 came to be the primary sniping rifle for the Corps in Vietnam was the M1D with the M-84 scope. I have seen the M52 sniper rifle used in competitions but I cannot recall any pictures of it in combat. The main reason is probably because they were not easily replaced if they became unservicable and the 26mm ring diameter was non-conventional. The M84 was plentiful and pretty reliable, magnification was not good but it was dependable. The 7/8th ring size made it interchangeable with several authorized scopes.
I believe that soldiers that actually fought on the ground will testify that many non-standard weapons were used. My FIL has never claimed to be a "sniper" but he will tell you that he used whatever he had at his disposal to fight with. He said that he saw M1a1 Thompsons, carbines, MP40's, P-38's, shitloads of Mausers, and just about every flavor of weapon in between.
I appreciate all the comments and information, this is obviously a subject that will always be good for discussion. This is how we all learn new and sometimes undiscovered info. I can see Mr. Humbles' point also, I spent two years working in an Army arms room and I can honestly tell you that we were not allowed to have any parts (from screws to stocks) that did not have a government stock number and authorized on hand quantity. I believe during war this is not always the case and some things happen that are never documented. As for the above A4, well it is what it is, and it will remain in the family forever (even though she has been a bad bad girl!). Thanks for all the good input.
BTW I think the sniper in Saving Private Ryan is actually using an unauthorized pre-production weaver K4 to snipe that Kraut sniper in the tower. He is damn lucky the Ordnance guys did not see that..........
I am not sure what the hell my FIL was thinking when he did not contact Peter Senich and have this rifle photographed for his book, sometimes he just doesn't think clearly.
Also if the MC-1 was such a great scope why did the Marines seldom (if ever) use it in combat? Until the M40 came to be the primary sniping rifle for the Corps in Vietnam was the M1D with the M-84 scope. I have seen the M52 sniper rifle used in competitions but I cannot recall any pictures of it in combat. The main reason is probably because they were not easily replaced if they became unservicable and the 26mm ring diameter was non-conventional. The M84 was plentiful and pretty reliable, magnification was not good but it was dependable. The 7/8th ring size made it interchangeable with several authorized scopes.
I believe that soldiers that actually fought on the ground will testify that many non-standard weapons were used. My FIL has never claimed to be a "sniper" but he will tell you that he used whatever he had at his disposal to fight with. He said that he saw M1a1 Thompsons, carbines, MP40's, P-38's, shitloads of Mausers, and just about every flavor of weapon in between.
I appreciate all the comments and information, this is obviously a subject that will always be good for discussion. This is how we all learn new and sometimes undiscovered info. I can see Mr. Humbles' point also, I spent two years working in an Army arms room and I can honestly tell you that we were not allowed to have any parts (from screws to stocks) that did not have a government stock number and authorized on hand quantity. I believe during war this is not always the case and some things happen that are never documented. As for the above A4, well it is what it is, and it will remain in the family forever (even though she has been a bad bad girl!). Thanks for all the good input.
BTW I think the sniper in Saving Private Ryan is actually using an unauthorized pre-production weaver K4 to snipe that Kraut sniper in the tower. He is damn lucky the Ordnance guys did not see that..........
Re: 1903A4
LOL. nice wrapup X.
Enjoy that a4, that is a treasure few will ever find.
LOL. nice wrapup X.
Enjoy that a4, that is a treasure few will ever find.
Re: 1903A4
point in case... this one has an m84 and the correct offset serial number. (not a Z code either, check it out).
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=135426975
point in case... this one has an m84 and the correct offset serial number. (not a Z code either, check it out).
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=135426975
Re: 1903A4
He wants $12K for that rifle!! Very nice early rifle that was re-arsenaled. When these were rebuilt for Korea many had the M81/82 or M-84 installed. The M-84 was an authorized replacement scope. This rifle does not have the original stock and all of the blued parts have been parkerized during the rebuild. The barrel is original though. I would say it is worth about $3.5-$4K tops. This rifle is about 500 rifles earlier than mine and overall is a beauty.
He wants $12K for that rifle!! Very nice early rifle that was re-arsenaled. When these were rebuilt for Korea many had the M81/82 or M-84 installed. The M-84 was an authorized replacement scope. This rifle does not have the original stock and all of the blued parts have been parkerized during the rebuild. The barrel is original though. I would say it is worth about $3.5-$4K tops. This rifle is about 500 rifles earlier than mine and overall is a beauty.
Re: 1903A4
The stock is "K" marked indicating a keystone made for arsenel replacement.
I wouldn't get near his price, but it is a neat rifle.
The stock is "K" marked indicating a keystone made for arsenel replacement.
I wouldn't get near his price, but it is a neat rifle.
