I need to purchase a 1911 in the next week or so, this will be used for every day carry as well as for duty use. I have the opportunity to buy a Kimber SIS Custom RL or I am also interested in a Springfield TRP Operator. Any experiences or comments you have about either of these would be appreciated. I'm also open to suggestions on other 1911's, my experience while not limited, has been limited to Kimber and Colt. I have no experience with the higher end models in the 1911 category.
Sidearms & Scatterguns 1911 Question/Comparison
- Thread starter mark112278
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I like the TRP, but when I had the TRP next to the Dan Wesson Specialist I was sold on the DW. Don't get me wrong. TRP is fine firearm, but for close to the same money you can get the Dan Wesson.
I've had Lots of Kimbers and some were great and others not so great. Dan Wesson Valor is a great pistol as is Les Baer, Wilson EB but for a cost. The only Springer I owned was a Range Officer and it was a great gun for the money but mostly you get what you pay for in 1911s. For self defense I'd much rather carry tactical Tupperware.
I'm starting to sense a pattern here, Dan Wesson might be the way to go. I have questions though because I'm not very familiar with them. #1 on the Specialist I will definitely not be using the Stainless finish, however how good is the matte black finish. I do work in different parts of the US and the world even so finish durability is important. #2 what kind of round count can I expect out of the barrel. #3 I'm assuming by the price that this is a partial mass production piece with some hand fitting, are there any parts that may need to be hand fitted or replaced. #4 How does this weapon do with +P loads. #5 are the stock magazines high quality or should I consider replacing them, I will be purchasing extra magazines anyway. While my pistol may not be primary engagement weapon, I'm of the mindset that if I do ever get into a gunfight I better have every advantage to ensure I live to see my next one.
You're describing the perfect case for a Tactical Tupperware pistol as [MENTION=72871]kansas[/MENTION] said.
Now I'm curious: What type of work is going to require/ALLOW you to travel the country/world ARMED that does not furnish you with a firearm? AND necessitates the "need" to purchase a 1911?
I'm not breaking balls (yet), I've just run through the options I'm aware of and come up blank.
1# The duty finish is an bonded finish on the metal, it supposed to be very durable much more so than say cerakote.
2# I'm not sure about that one.
3# I think a lot of the parts are hand fitted. IRRC it has a lot of ed brown parts.
4# I've not shot them though mine, but the manual says it will shoot them just fine.
5# Mine came w/ checkmate mags, I've not had a malfunction with them , but I only have 350 rounds though mine.
BTW I'm just over in Dallas if you want to take a look at it.
IF I was to carry a 1911 as my side arm for a defensive weapon I'd at least go with the Dan Wesson Valor. These are up there with the custom pistols with machined parts and some things hand fitted but a new one is in the $1800 range and to add their black finish is another few hundred dollars. I had a Wilson that ran well and currently own a Les Baer that runs good but most of your 1911s in the under 1k are pretty hit and miss for reliability out of the box. I'd have to run several thousand rounds through them before I would trust one as a carry gun. I'm not bashing 1911s. Love them and they are a great platform IF they run right. Good magazines help. At least run the better McCormick but I'd run Tripps if I could find them and they worked in the pistol I was carrying.
Of the two you mentioned - I'd go TRP. Why? I think it's all the pistol a Kimber is, but better. I like series 70 fire control. Nothing wrong with Ser 80, but I just prefer a 70.
I just acquired a Dan Wesson V-Bob however. I pretty much "blame" that purchase on the number of positive remarks from members here on the 'Hide. WOW - - - - it truly is a pistol you have to experience to believe it!! It's a production semi-custom pistol. What I'm saying is, I think it's all the pistol an EB, NH or Wilson is, but it's not tailored to your every desire, but it functions and performs the same. Don't get my wrong, my GRP is a bit more smooth, but it also has a few thousand more rounds through it. If you can find a DW, definitely hold and/or shoot one!!!!
Good luck!
-G45
I just acquired a Dan Wesson V-Bob however. I pretty much "blame" that purchase on the number of positive remarks from members here on the 'Hide. WOW - - - - it truly is a pistol you have to experience to believe it!! It's a production semi-custom pistol. What I'm saying is, I think it's all the pistol an EB, NH or Wilson is, but it's not tailored to your every desire, but it functions and performs the same. Don't get my wrong, my GRP is a bit more smooth, but it also has a few thousand more rounds through it. If you can find a DW, definitely hold and/or shoot one!!!!
Good luck!
-G45
I work for a private security company, not in security but in training. We are provided with small arms, however a glock 19 is not something I wish to trust my life to especially in some of the worst places on the planet. If it comes down to a gunfight and I have to draw a pistol, I want to make sure I win.
I've been doing a lot of research on the Dan Wesson Specialist. So far everything I've read, including about the accuracy has been outstanding. I'd rather spend a little bit more money and come out with an outstanding weapon. I appreciate all the feedback and answers I've gotten. I'll let ya'll know how it turns out, lets just hope all I ever need it for is steel and paper.
Another option if you're starting to favor Dan Wesson is the CCO. It's a little smaller and lighter if you are going to use it as a carry gun.
I'm a huge 1911 fan (and own several), but for harsh-environments, the Glock and its spin-offs are EXACTLY what I have trusted my life to. They are designed to work dry (no oil for moon dust to gum up), the finish is about as tough as you'll ever find, and they are boringly reliable. Weapons maintenance consists of either blowing it out with an air hose or hosing it off and letting it air dry. If you can get one to rust in any meaningful way I applaud you for the effort. IF you manage to break one (I've had one hit by a car and not break) you can swap out parts yourself because probably 50% of the guys doing security work have been through a Glock Armorers Course and you can tear one down with a paper clip rather than an armorer's block and multiple pin-punches.
Assuming your company is willing to handle the logistics of moving your personal weapon around the world, they're also having to send YOUR ammo, because no one else is using it. I don't think my company ever paid for a round of ammo in-theater. We'd just grab a case of 9mm or 5.56 from a Unit whenever we needed it.
Add to that, if you're on a training gig, you're either working for the DoS, or there are likely going to be DoS folks strolling around, and SOMEONE is going to realize one of these things is not like the other ( you're cocked and locked ) and they're going to throw a fit. In the States I could care less if someone is throwing a fit; overseas ONE unhappy guy in the proper position can send you home.
I totally agree that if you promise me I'm going to get to shoot someone today with a pistol, I'd love for it to be with one of my .45s, and from what I've seen and read Dan Wesson is putting out some nice stuff, but don't discount the Glock because of it's diminished Cool Guy Factor.
I've spent lots of time using a Glock. Trusted my life to one more than once, however, with my hand size the glock 21 is not conducive and they don't make a .45 in the compact frame. My job's not hush hush or secret squirrel or any other crap that people try to push off but they do require some discretion. Part of my job focuses around maritime environments and the only time I see DoS guys running around is when some big shot is sticking his nose in and we all dress up and play games anyway. I get what your saying about the, this guy is not like the others, but most of the guy's I've worked with carry 1911's. A lot of them are former SF, SAS, Rangers and a couple of SEALs. My specialty is medical in nature. I asked a few of them their opinion and they all felt the same way, 1911 is the way to go. I even had a conversation with a former SF sniper, he thought going to a glock was the smartest thing they (SF) ever did but as he pointed out, this isn't special forces and we aren't in the middle of nowhere. We have super qualified gun smiths and some times they just look bored. So having a weapon that might need some tuning from time to time, every 5k rounds or so, isn't a bad thing. You are correct though, if we were going to bang it out day to day or even weekly with someone then a glock might be the correct choice but I'd rather be comfortable with my weapon than feel uncomfortable because of size. Also, ammo availability is not an issue, I've often wondered how our logistical trains work out so well, we seem to have endless supplies of the stuff, the correct answer was that some one up the food chain thought what we were doing was important so they made it easier, notice I didn't say easy, on us. Also, and this blows me away, fully half of the guys I work with, carry AK long guns, the other half AR.
Sounds like I may need to kidnap your logistics guy and keep him for myself 
off the shelf, the SIG tac ops series is my go-to solution. I have two, and love them completely. I also had a c3 which was a nice carry gun due to the light weight aluminum frame.
If you want to step above that, Ed Brown would be my choice. S&W also makes some really nice 1911's (and in other calibers like 9mm para, .40 s&w).
As an instructor, rangemaster, and armorer, i have seen many problematic (functionality, not cosmetics) Kimbers. I am sure they are a decent enough gun for most people but I would not trust my life to one (personal opinion, YMMV). [soapbox] Plus, at well over a grand, they ought not to have plastic spring housings, etc. when less expensive models come with metal versions. It's just a corner-cutting measure, IMHO... and it bothers me. [/soapbox]
If you want to step above that, Ed Brown would be my choice. S&W also makes some really nice 1911's (and in other calibers like 9mm para, .40 s&w).
As an instructor, rangemaster, and armorer, i have seen many problematic (functionality, not cosmetics) Kimbers. I am sure they are a decent enough gun for most people but I would not trust my life to one (personal opinion, YMMV). [soapbox] Plus, at well over a grand, they ought not to have plastic spring housings, etc. when less expensive models come with metal versions. It's just a corner-cutting measure, IMHO... and it bothers me. [/soapbox]
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There have been a lot of responses to this thread so I won't repeat anything posted here. I have extensive 1911 experience as a work gun.
I will say, that in MY Humble Opinion, the SIS cocking serrations in combination with the slick finish on that pistol is a major party-foul on a work gun. I almost can't believe the LAPD SIS unit even approved such a combination for a work gun.
TTR
1) Finish is in my opinion so far very good.
2) Not sure but I have somewhere close to 2K thru mine.
3) Yes
4) Yes, I have shot about 50 or so rounds no problem. But not my normal load.
5) I use all Wilson mags in all mine 1911's have not had any issues with them. So I would recommend going to the Wilson site and click on the 12 days of Christmas and grab them now when they are deeply discounted.
I'd wager more non-military gunfights have been won with a G19 than any other sidearm. It is right there with the AK-47 in terms of reliability. Looking at a mid level 1911 for reliability over a Glock is just silly. 9mm might not be my first choice but I sure wouldn't want to be shot with one.
I like the TRP, but when I had the TRP next to the Dan Wesson Specialist I was sold on the DW. Don't get me wrong. TRP is fine firearm, but for close to the same money you can get the Dan Wesson.
You really shouldn't skimp so much on your knives, guns and watches there brother!
Have you considered a lightly used Les Baer?
Here's an example
Les Baer Thunder Ranch 1911 : Semi Auto Pistols at GunBroker.com
Here's an example
Les Baer Thunder Ranch 1911 : Semi Auto Pistols at GunBroker.com
If it comes down to a gunfight in some of the worst places on the planet, the Glock is going to have more cartridges in the magazine, will function dry, muddy, sandy, or cracked, and will live through the abuse, moisture, salt, and every-changing environments you may go through. The 1911 is a fine pistol that only functions when maintenanced properly and consistently. I would much rather field-strip a Glock than a 1911.
I carry both. I only take one to work...the Glock.
To address your load choice, I would recommend 200 grain Speer Gold Dot + P if you can get your hand on them. I have yet to shoot a 1911 or any other .45acp that does not like them. I copied the ballistic info here but for some reason its not linking (operator error) in a nut shell it travels 1080 feet per second at 518 foot pounds out of a .45 does the trick.
