Gunsmithing 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

thefitter

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1) Was thinking about putting a Surefire brake on a new 700 SPS TAC with threaded barrel. I called Surefire and the "tech" said it needed to be timed. Is that something a reasonably handy guy could do?

2) Want to install a Shilen trigger, do I need a gunsmith to do this? I'm used to M14/M1A that I can just pop a new trigger group in.
 

Turk

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Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

The brake comes w/ washers. Most anyone can do it. Trigger isn't that bad, just be careful w/ the bolt stop spring so it doesn't bind your stop.
 

STR

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Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

If your the slightest bit mechanically inclined, you can install the trigger also. Good luck.
 

Hateca

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    Which Surefire brake? Depending on which one you want there could be machine work needed.

    That being said like mentioned above they come with shims and instructions for already threaded barrels.
     

    Hateca

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The MB762SSAL/RE

    http://www.surefire.com/MB762SSALRE-Muzzle-BrakeAdapter </div></div>

    That brake will need machine work to the barrel, it's not plug and play.

    The barrel will need to be turned down to .775" for approx. 2.75” from the muzzle of the barrel.

    If you don't plan on using a Surefire can there are better brakes out there.
     

    thefitter

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    Figures. Was originally going to put a AAC Flash hider on but then started kicking around the ieda of a brake. Thread is 5/8-24 any recommendations on a plug and play brake? Thanks.
     

    Hateca

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  • Aug 12, 2004
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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Figures. Was originally going to put a AAC Flash hider on but then started kicking around the ieda of a brake. Thread is 5/8-24 any recommendations on a plug and play brake? Thanks.

    </div></div>

    If you want a timed brake you are kind of limited without going through some machining. Your only real option if you want to do plug and play is get a brake that doesn’t need to be timed.
     

    thefitter

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    Any brakes that I can just screw on and off? Again thread is 5/8-24 on the barrel. Would like the option of running a brake one day and then a flash hider the next.

    Also I have been reading abut Timney triggers, seems they are drop in. Opinion? Thanks again!
     

    Hateca

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  • Aug 12, 2004
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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any brakes that I can just screw on and off? Again thread is 5/8-24 on the barrel. Would like the option of running a brake one day and then a flash hider the next.

    Also I have been reading abut Timney triggers, seems they are drop in. Opinion? Thanks again! </div></div>

    Well if you want a brake that you can just screw on and not worry about it I would recommend a Vais, but you would have to order it with that thread pitch and it has ports all the way around so if you shoot prone it can blow crap up off the ground. The Vais is a very efficient brake and not as loud as the two ports timed brakes, not that I would want to shoot it without hearing protection mind you.

    Timney triggers are pretty good but I usually stick with the old style Remington trigger or Rifle Basix triggers for my field rifles.

    Send me a PM or email I have a question for you regarding your rifle.
     

    Hateca

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FYCN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It looks as though the YHM brakes are able to just screw on with crush washers.

    http://www.yhm.net/store/muzzle.html </div></div>

    Yes but I wouldn't recommend putting a brake or flash hider on a precision rifle using a crush washer. Crush washers are for AR's and flash hiders and should stay there.
     

    excess

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    Nobody mentioned that great template with the hole in it that the Surefire brake comes with. It has a hole in it that you slip over the muzzle. The template then tells you what color (thickness) washers you need based on the angle of the brake. I thought it was silly when I opened the package but then again I'm not afraid of math.

    It sounds like your best answer is a brake that does not need to be timed. I have Badger FTE and Roedale brakes that both fall into this category. They are both bigger and may not be the look you are going for, but they seem to work well.
     

    Turk

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    Good luck w/ that template!
    cry.gif
     

    thefitter

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    The Badger FTE and Roedale brakes are clamp on. My barrel is threaded.

    I guess what I did not realize until now is that any brake that screws on will need to be timed.
     

    Hateca

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Badger FTE and Roedale brakes are clamp on. My barrel is threaded.

    I guess what I did not realize until now is that any brake that screws on will need to be timed.

    </div></div>

    No the FTE is not strictly a clamp on. It's threaded and the clamp is to time it and lock it into place. Problem is with your rifle for the FTE to work you will need additional machine work. The barrel will need to look like the pic.

    fte5.jpg
     

    thefitter

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    I see. You know when I bought this the Remington page stated "Accepts AAC® and other 5/8-24 Threaded Flash Hiders, Muzzle Brake and Suppressors".

    The AAC brake does not fit it and I can't seem to find a brake that does not require timing or machining.

    Granted my original intent was to run a flash hider but I thought it would be nice to switch when I wanted. Oh well.
     

    Outsydlooknin75

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see. You know when I bought this the Remington page stated "Accepts AAC® and other 5/8-24 Threaded Flash Hiders, Muzzle Brake and Suppressors".

    The AAC brake does not fit it and I can't seem to find a brake that does not require timing or machining.

    Granted my original intent was to run a flash hider but I thought it would be nice to switch when I wanted. Oh well. </div></div>

    How does the AAC brake not fit it? Do you have the right Brake ? Granted a brake threaded 1/2 x28 wont fit, but a 5/8x 24 should. Yes it may need timing, but that can be done easilly.
     

    thefitter

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    excess

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    Fitter - a brake that needs to be timed either needs material removed from the rear of the brake, from the front of the barrel shoulder, or needs some sort of washer/spacer. This is how it is timed. I personally would not tackle any material removal myself, but I'm not a machinist. I imagine this is pretty easy to do if you are a machinist. The washer setup is pretty easy, but has been said, may not be ideal for a precision rifle. That said, my Service Rifle uses peel washers to time the flash hider. The hider was put on only finger tight, and the way I look at it, the peel washers only act as a spacer. The hider is mostly held on from the loc tite, not the pretension from cranking down the hider. It's quite a shooter, so maybe this is a viable option for you. You could always give it a try and test the accuracy. If it's not good, send it to one of the many fine smiths on this board for the machine work
     

    thefitter

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neoshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The AAC .338 Fast attach brake/adpt come in 5/8-24 </div></div>

    Can I use this on a 700 in .308?
     

    thefitter

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fitter - a brake that needs to be timed either needs material removed from the rear of the brake, from the front of the barrel shoulder, or needs some sort of washer/spacer. This is how it is timed. I personally would not tackle any material removal myself, but I'm not a machinist. I imagine this is pretty easy to do if you are a machinist. The washer setup is pretty easy, but has been said, may not be ideal for a precision rifle. That said, my Service Rifle uses peel washers to time the flash hider. The hider was put on only finger tight, and the way I look at it, the peel washers only act as a spacer. The hider is mostly held on from the loc tite, not the pretension from cranking down the hider. It's quite a shooter, so maybe this is a viable option for you. You could always give it a try and test the accuracy. If it's not good, send it to one of the many fine smiths on this board for the machine work </div></div>

    I don't mind washers as long as it works. It would need to be something I could take on and off because I need to run a flash hider sometimes.
     

    Hateca

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    Re: 2 questions- Timing a brake, installing a trigger

    Like I said I would avoid using a crush washer on a brake. You have very little bullet clearance and any misalignment of the brake can cause accuracy issues and at worse a bullet strike.

    There is a reason suppressor manufactures that use adapters tell you not to use crush washers to install and time the adapter. Most instruct the use of the supplied shims or have the barrel machined to time the adapter if need be, and even then they want the adapter set with “Rock Set” or some other thread locker which would make it impossible to easily and repeatedly remove the adapter or brake.

    If one wants to run just a flash hider one could get away with a crush washer on a precision rifle because bullet clearance isn't an issue but one could still have accuracy issues and it will look Mickey Mouse in my opinion.

    Your only option if you want to use a brake that you can remove and swap with a flash hider, and easily time is to get something like the Badger FTE or the RAD brake.

    The rifle you have is set up for AAC adapter for .308 calibers suppressors and or flash hiders. As for fitting any other suppressor or adapters, well that is true if they are threaded 5/8x24” but depending on what the specs are for the shank length this might not be the case without machine work.

    You’re going to find that pretty much nothing in precision rifles is plug_and_play.