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2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Scottmilk9

Custom AR builder
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 8, 2004
1,309
10
Arizona
www.sdrifles.com
Check out the facebook page: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Rich has posted up some good info also, I'll try to copy and paste for folks who didn't see it.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

<span style="font-size: 14pt">2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series</span>
· PRSS consist of 8-10 nationwide qualifying matches in 2012 with an aggregate point system qualifying only the highest point shooters.
· The 2012 Series Finale is planned for December 1-2, 2012.
· Competitors will be competing for year end point totals to gain entry into 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series Finale for an estimated payout of $7500 cash ---(60%) to 1st place match winner and (40%) to the Series point’s winner and sponsorship prizes for place finishes.
· Associated competitors will be able to access the dedicated web-page and review of match results and info, season standings for all shooters, upcoming Events and any PRSS news and sponsorship information.

<span style="font-size: 14pt">PRSS Events</span>

Total Season Series points calculated from the highest scoring 3 Events from below

1. Lone Star Challenge--- December 3-4, 2011—Frost, Texas (*Series Sponsor Match)
2. Mesquite Creek Rifle Challenge –-February 2012—Central, Texas (*Series Sponsor match)
3. Practical Marksman Challenge –-February 2012---Alabama
4. Phoenix TPRC –-February/March 2012--Arizona
5. Rifles Only Cup—April/May 2012---Kingsville, Texas
6. Nor-Cal TBRC---May 2012---Sacramento, California
7. Score High Tactical Match –-May/June 2012---Albuquerque, New Mexico
8. Rifles Only Bash—October/November 2012--- Kingsville, Texas
----------- Series Finale---December 1-2, 2012--- Frost, Texas

--------And possibly others to come.
==========================================================================================
<span style="font-size: 14pt">PRSS Scoring</span>
Point System for qualifying matches (simpler version 1.2)

Each qualifying event will be worth 100 total Series points. For first place, a competitor shall receive 100 points.
The remaining field of competitors will receive points normalized from the percentage earned in relationship to the top score.

PRSS Points = (Highest Total Match Points/Individual’s Total Match Points) x 100.

Example: 1st place = 2450 match points for 100%, or 100 SERIES points;
10th place = 1980 match points for 80.816% of 1st place score, or 80.816 SERIES points.
Values will be rounded up or down, to the third digit accordingly.

The top 40 competitors with the most points will have guaranteed slots to the PRSS Finale and be eligible to compete for the match champion and points championship of an estimated $7500 payout.
===========================================================================================

<span style="font-size: 14pt">PRSS Rules an FAQ</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">How Do I sign up to have points counted? </span>
By paying $40 to PRSS association, or by entering the Dec. 3-4, 2011 LSC Match.
We are also working on a patch we will send you as a 2012 Precision Rifles Shooting Series points’ competitor.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Do I have to be a PRSS association member to have points counted?</span>
Yes and your points only start accruing upon date paid on or after the LSC match to kickoff the Series. So don't wait until you win a match and then decide you want to compete the point series race.

<span style="font-weight: bold">How do I qualify for the 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series Season Finale?</span>
· By earning enough season Series points to be in the Top 40 shooters nationwide.
· A Win at any ONE Qualifying Match and you’re automatically in the Series Finale
· <span style="color: #CC0000">2--Top 10% finishes or 90th percentile or better finish. at Qualifying Matches and you’re automatically in the Series Finale. example 6th place at match containing 60 people. without getting too complicated it would take 70 shooters to get 7th place to a Top 10% finish.</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Why only count 3 matches?</span>
3 major matches is alot of matches for most shooters to compete in. And although there is alot of matches one could attend the emphasis on these matches have been chosen because of high skill level, similarity and quality of match.

<span style="font-weight: bold">How is the Series Points Champion determined?</span>
By adding points of BEST 3 Qualifying matches and Series Finale Match.
<span style="font-weight: bold">
What does my $40 PRSS Association membership pay for?</span> A couple of things, it gives you a opportunity to be a part of a elite shooting series that tracks your shooting status at almost any major match across the country, this is also a first time effort for our shooting sport that can only help grow it and make it more interesting. Also all monies paid to the Association by membership or by Sponsorship gets paid back to the Series Finale Match Champion and Season points winner, thus creating a high value interest in the competition itself.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Will the PRSS hold the 2013 matches and Finale at different venues?</span>
Yes, as of right now, we plan to rotate the Series Finale to different States as Match Directors step up and take on the task as well add events as they prove to draw nationwide competitive shooters, in a fair format, that test all aspects of our sport.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Does the PRSS have an oversight committee?</span>
Yes as of right now we have four Match Directors and several seasoned shooters on the committee promoting the series, ensuring scoring fairness, overseeing collection of funds and participating in the payout of proceeds.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Why are some Match Events labeled (*Series sponsor)?</span>
These Matches are supporting the PRSS by donating funds from entries back into the PRSS Finale and/or giving preference for match entry to PRSS shooters.

<span style="font-size: 14pt">Sign up info will be HERE very soon. </span>
Show your support by adding this Facebook page and help spread the word, PRSS Page
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Here is a brief example of actual scores from 2011 Match Results. Using 2012 Event scores that will be displayed via a web page with another Tab added which will give viewers a Total best 3-Match score for every shooter listed.

2010results.png
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Thanks for all the work Rich and everyone else involved. I think I can speak for a lot of shooters when I say this is greatly appreciated. The Finale will be something to see.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

This series race has been talked about in circles for a while now, 3-Gun Nation has a proven Series race that is a huge success for their sport. With careful consideration of how a Precision Rifle Series should run, I have no doubts this Series could be every bit as successful.
Without any huge sponsorship as of yet the only real way to cut the Ribbon on this deal is form an association of competitive shooters, pay the small fee, gather other sponsorship as we go, which in turn creates a huge Finale cash pot to shoot for.

The only REAL question is : Will I pay $40 to the Association and throw my name into the race of possibly winning some huge cash? At worst your're going to be supporting and being a part of the growth of the sport.

There is over 50,000 registered people on this site, of those I suspect 1% would shoot competitively, of that 1%, if we could get 1/2 to sign up to the Series, the payout would exceed my expectations by nearly double.

I hope to start registration to the PRSS in November. Stay tuned!
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

I'm pretty excited about this venture. Thanks for including NCPPRC in this series.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

great idea, guys. i'm in.

are the match announcements for lone star and PMC, AL up somewhere? where do we go to register for those?
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

This is going to be great for our sport. Looking forward to the season starting.


Mick
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

This is a great idea. We look forward to being a part if it.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

This is a great opportunity for all shooters.Thanks Kevin,Rich,Mick and whoever else that did the brainstorming and put forth the effort to get this off the ground.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Great Idea but it looks like it is a west coast show.
How do you deal with slot availability, there are certian days that a guy just cant get off work to try for a match slot that will fill up in 30 minutes? Top contenders,possibly, could not even get in several of those matches due to landing slots.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

It looks like a good set of matches, but I'm going to have to be independently wealthy to afford the over-the-road costs of that series.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Jon,
We're incorporating some of the east coat matches as well. We're still in the early stages and getting more and more folks involved. As you know though, there is just more matches in Texas and further west, but we'll do our best not to alienate you guys.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can someone win the series without shooting the finale if they have the points to support it? </div></div>

<span style="font-style: italic">The top 40 competitors with the most points will have guaranteed slots to the PRSS Finale and be eligible to compete for the match champion and points championship of an estimated $7500 payout.</span>
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

You also said this
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How is the Series Points Champion determined?
By adding points of BEST 3 Qualifying matches and Series Finale Match.</div></div>
So what if it's 100 + 100 + 100 + 0 and the guy who wins the series finale doesn't add up to 300 points total.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Zak,
If he gets one win, let alone three wins, he has an automatic bid to the finale. The finale is going to be the best of the best, he might not have shot against half the competitors in the match or matches he won.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

I am not trying to be difficult - I am trying to figure out if this is a true points series, IE, the guy with the most points at the end wins, per the part I quoted a couple posts up ("How is the Series Points Champion determined? By adding points of BEST 3 Qualifying matches and Series Finale Match.")

OR

if you mean that all the series matches (other than the finale) are solely for points to get into the final match, and that match is what determines the overall winner.

You have text written in this thread that supports and/or suggests both scenarios, and they are quite different. You might want to clarify that in the official "how this thing works" documents...

I would also note that this
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Total Season Series points calculated from the highest scoring 3 Events from below

1. Lone Star Challenge--- December 3-4, 2011—Frost, Texas (*Series Sponsor Match)
2. Mesquite Creek Rifle Challenge –-February 2012—Central, Texas (*Series Sponsor match)
3. Practical Marksman Challenge –-February 2012---Alabama
4. Phoenix TPRC –-February/March 2012--Arizona
5. Rifles Only Cup—April/May 2012---Kingsville, Texas
6. Nor-Cal TBRC---May 2012---Sacramento, California
7. Score High Tactical Match –-May/June 2012---Albuquerque, New Mexico
8. Rifles Only Bash—October/November 2012--- Kingsville, Texas
----------- Series Finale---December 1-2, 2012--- Frost, Texas
</div></div>
implies that the Total Season Points includes only 3 events including the finale. Whereas what I quoted earlier states that it's 3 leading up to the finale, and then plus the finale.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Umm, the season finale has a -----next to it, not a number, so I don't read it as included in the three.

but i'm kinda simple....
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich Emmons</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
· Competitors will be competing for year end point totals to gain entry into 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series Finale for an estimated payout of $7500 cash ---(60%) to 1st place match winner and (40%) to the Series point’s winner and sponsorship prizes for place finishes.
</div></div>

Again, maybe I'mm too simple....
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

I dont wanna put words in Rich or Kevin's mouths, but I see it and understand it as, what you stated in your second paragraph.

<span style="font-style: italic">all the series matches (other than the finale) are solely for points to get into the final match, and that match is what determines the overall winner.</span>

This is how I see it and if the other comittee members see if differently, then I would like to hear it their take.

Zak, I understand where you're coming from, I think this idea is valid and what our sport needs and I volunteered to help out where I can. I also know that each match is quite different and find it very difficult to decide which matches around the country are suitable for this series.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

"From the events below."

My day job is to verify that digital systems behavior matches the specifications (and will work). It makes one detail oriented.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Don't take me the wrong way, I'm not against it. I am asking questions about it to figure out how it works. Richard actually emailed me about it offline and I came here looking for all the details.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich Emmons</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
· Competitors will be competing for year end point totals to gain entry into 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series Finale for an estimated payout of $7500 cash ---(60%) to 1st place match winner and (40%) to the Series point’s winner and sponsorship prizes for place finishes.
</div></div>

Again, maybe I'mm too simple.... </div></div>
Ah, so could the Series Points winner not be present at the finale, if he has top points at the end?

And if the finale winner is also the series points winner, he gets the full $7500?
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Why would one compete in a series and not bother with the Finale? But you're right it reads that the points leader need not be present to collect.

<span style="font-style: italic">And for clarity, I am not a committee member and don't speak for them, just a guy that shoots and is interested</span>
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

I really couldn't say. But it now would be the time to hammer out those cases, not when two guys think they are both the points winner at the end of the series.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Get some east coast and midwest stuff in the mix and im in. This could get me back to shooting 100% again. What about teams? You would need some serious vaction time from work also not to mention some serious practice time and between match training.


Rich
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

I am not sure I like everything the 3GN series has done to 3Gun. It has brought a lot of publicity and it has elevated the level of competition some, but on the other side no normal working person really stands a chance in the series due to the time off and cost requirements of the circuit.

One of the great things about practical shooting is that regular guys with regular careers can compete at the highest level.

The blue collar guys I shoot with can usually afford vacation for one, maybe two major matches per year.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The remaining field of competitors will receive points normalized from the percentage earned in relationship to the top score.</div></div>
This works for place systems that are based on points.

What happens if there is a 2-way tie, and then a shootoff to determine winner? They would all have the same points but an order would be determined by the shootoff.

What about if a retrospective tiebreaker is used to determine rank for places other than first/second?

Also, note that depending on the match score distribution (which is a function of the distribution of the difficulty of target opportunities), some matches may contribute many competitors with 90+% (ie over 90 series points), while some matches contribute very few.

Put another way, if Match A has the top ten places:
1. 100%
2. 98%
3. 97.5%
4. 97%
5. 96%
6. 95.5%
7. 95.3%
8. 95%
9. 91%
10. 88%

and Match B has the top ten places:
1. 100%
2. 88%
3. 81%
4. 75%
5. 74.7%
6. 74.3%
7. 74.2%
8. 71%
9. 70%
10. 66%

based on a different mix of difficulty, then Match A will have a disproportionately large contribution to series points vs. match B.

In this situation, the guys that shot Match B instead of Match A (based on schedule or travel or whatever) and placed #2-#10 would get significantly fewer points.

Note that nowhere in this math does it matter the total number of competitors...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2 top 10% finishes at Qualifying Matches and you’re automatically in the Series Finale.</div></div>

I would also note that the phrase "top ten percent finish", in normal use, means you finished in the top ten percent of competitors, IE, the 90th percentile or better, or you beat at least 90 percent of all competitors at the event. In normal use, it does <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> mean you had a score within 10% of the winner. This creates some confusion based on the other way you are using percentage to calculate series points.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

I agree with Zak that the percentages based ranking may not be the best. Maybe a set number of points for your 2nd, 3rd, 4th place and so on finish. IE: 1st=100 points, 2nd=99 points and so on. Also the shooter in last place doesnt receive 0 points unless there were 100 shooters.

As in the case of the last 3 gun match I shot. I came in 11th place in my class but went to the prize table 68th because of my percentage of the 1st place finisher.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You also said this
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How is the Series Points Champion determined?
By adding points of BEST 3 Qualifying matches and Series Finale Match.</div></div>
So what if it's 100 + 100 + 100 + 0 and the guy who wins the series finale doesn't add up to 300 points total.</div></div>
TECHNICALLY YES, ONE COULD BE A POINTS CHAMPION WITHOUT ATTENDING THE FINALE. LIKELY... NO!
and Yes if points winner and match winner are one in the same then yes he get's the total payoff.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would also note that the phrase "top ten percent finish", in normal use, means you finished in the top ten percent of competitors, IE, the 90th percentile or better, or you beat at least 90 percent of all competitors at the event. In normal use, it does not mean you had a score within 10% of the winner. This creates some confusion based on the other way you are using percentage to calculate series points.</div></div>


THIS IS EXACTLY MY MEANING. 10% MEANING 90TH PERCENTILE OR BETTER!
E.g. 3rd place out of 30 shooters, 4th/40, 5/50, 6/60 etc.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tim3gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with Zak that the percentages based ranking may not be the best. Maybe a set number of points for your 2nd, 3rd, 4th place and so on finish. IE: 1st=100 points, 2nd=99 points and so on. Also the shooter in last place doesnt receive 0 points unless there were 100 shooters.

As in the case of the last 3 gun match I shot. I came in 11th place in my class but went to the prize table 68th because of my percentage of the 1st place finisher.</div></div>
last things first,which brings up another debate, for the most part we don't have classes/divisions, yet they're some i.e Mammoth, if this division type event were ever to be considered, only those in open class could compete for PRSS SCORE, simply because every event is pretty much open as well as the finale.

Regarding a set number of points for place finishes... This was also my first thought too but this does not give enough separation or in some cases too much on placement alone, and not as much consideration on <span style="text-decoration: underline">actual performance</span>--- as you see where in the NORCAL event where Francis kicked our butts by several hundred match points or which also equals I did 84% as good as him..I think he deserves those extra points, it's simply giving the exact amount of points head to head based on the top guy. this really rewards every shooter performance wise, <span style="font-style: italic">Ive seen many matches where 8th thru 15th place were maybe 30 match points apart, therefore the placement has very little meaning in relation to the actual points.</span>
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

I appreciate all the points and by no ways is this perfect yet or have i got it all figured out yet. and this is definitely a joint effort among many shooters, and Match Directors.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Looking forward to following it along! Great idea and I commend you for taking on something of this magnitude.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the match description/parameters for the finale in Frost TX?
</div></div>
This match is on the same grounds as the Lone Star Challenge (Kickoff event). Info for the LSC can be found on Kevin's website; Rifle Ranch Website. And as of right now, the only description I have is it will be an accumulation of similar stages seen in other PRSS events, of course with added grand Finale Difficulty.
and yes the finale venue can be changed year to year and by no means am I 100% married to hosting the Finale event as I'd rather shoot it, but it's got to have a start and I believe *Kevin and I can make it a premier event.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

re: percentage-based points vs. "rank" points, e.g.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with Zak that the percentages based ranking may not be the best. Maybe a set number of points for your 2nd, 3rd, 4th place and so on finish. IE: 1st=100 points, 2nd=99 points and so on. Also the shooter in last place doesnt receive 0 points unless there were 100 shooters.
</div></div>
Both systems have faults and/or ways to "game" them. The way to game series points based on percentage is to shoot matches in which you think the winner will do least well (ie, you can place closest to him in percentage). This is exactly what many people did with their division at RM3G this year due to how they changed the prize table ranking between divisions.

The way to game points based on ranking (per quote above) is to choose a match with very few competitors. At full capacity, there are matches that sell out with 36 slots, or 80 slots. (And then we have matches like the WTRC that had 6 teams, but matches would presumably not be included in series if too small).

A third way to do it would be series points based on your percentile, so if there were 100 shooters, 1st would get 100%, second would get 99%, but if there were 50 shooters 2nd would be at 98%. This "scales" series points based on match size, so that 3rd at a match with 50 people is the "same" as 6th at a match with 100 people. I think the downside here is that it does not reward big differences in final score with commensurate rewards in series points.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

I think we all know that there will be a small amount who will try manipulate whatever scoring system is in place, but I think everyone is on the right track.

BTW, another way of gaming is having the RO's shooting in their own match...
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series


<span style="font-weight: bold">here is an example of overall standings sheet that would continue on to list every PRSS shooter. this list the shooters TOP three scores
the * notes that shooter has won 1 event or finished Top 10% or 90th percentile at 2 events and has automatically qualified.</span>
OverallStandings-1.png
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW, another way of gaming is having the RO's shooting in their own match...</div></div>
Like every USPSA, IDPA, and 3Gun match ever, dude.

At the Steel Safari every shooter acts as an RO for two other shooters they don't know, and due to the match structure, nobody sees the stages beforehand. At the TBTC, non-shooting staff will run the RO's blind through all stages, and then the RO's will take over ROing. That is unless you guys want to run 10 miles a day instead of 3. I can do it either way, but I don't want a bunch of corpses on my hands when flatlanders try to run in the high desert. The bottom line is that you have to trust the match director to put on a fair match, and if you don't trust him/them, then don't attend period.

If anyone has a problem with the way I run my matches, give me a call or email me. It's much more adult and productive than snide comments on a forum. When I gave the same challenge to people who were sad they didn't get in the SS, nobody called me, instead preferring to complain on the internetz.

 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Pretty sure Matt didn't even have you in mind with his comment Zak. No matter what momma told you, the world does not revolve around you...

Back to the subject, I think that points based on a percentage of the winner's score is the only way to go, it levels the playing field whether the match is won by a 80% hit factor or a 20% hit factor. Scoring a set value for first, second & third places doesn't level it out so much.

I would prefer to see team matches, LE/Mil oriented matches left out, as they are not the same animal as practical precision matches. A series should be about individual skill, and practical marksmanship, not a fieldcraft exercise. Likewise, matches that have carbine and or pistol points are not practical precision matches. And timed physical components are for the birds-you want to show off you physical prowess, enter a triathalon, not a rifle competition (not that the stages can't have physical challenges, but how fast I can hump my gear is not what I am interested in competing about).

 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Please disregard if that wasn't the case. I got a note very recently to that effect and I thought it was another jibe from the same group. Can't make everyone happy, but I won't take false criticism either.

Back to the subject ^2 --
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Back to the subject, I think that points based on a percentage of the winner's score is the only way to go, it levels the playing field whether the match is won by a 80% hit factor or a 20% hit factor. Scoring a set value for first, second & third places doesn't level it out so much.
</div></div>
All said and done, I do think that this is the best way to do it, given the problems with the other systems.

As for physical components- I am a big fan of having all challenges, shooting and physical, developed organically by the stage design. To put another way, I believe physical challenge is a part of practical rifle shooting, but I believe the physical aspects should be those required to support the shooting part given the terrain -- not contrived timed purely physical events.

If anyone remembers the old ITRC, I would strongly object to excluding it in theory because it was too physical.
 
Re: 2012 Precision Rifle Shooting Series

Actually it was about you, but I'm not familiar with the specific group you are talking about. It really wasn't meant to get your panties in a bunch but it obviously did. The scenario evidently doesn't have many fans but I think you have addressed it clearly.

Let’s get back on topic.