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Fieldcraft 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

planebuilder

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Minuteman
Jan 24, 2012
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Burleson, Texas
Who here is attending the 2012 Tiger Valley BugOut Drill in Waco, TX?

http://www.tigervalley.com/tvciv_bugoutdrill.php

I'd like to start a conversation about what gear people are going to use and why. What Pack, firearms, food, boots, how much ammo, pretty much anything that has to do with the gear you plan on running and why you chose that gear.

Also, I'd like to discuss the physical training side of this. I don't think this is something you can train for 5 weeks out and expect to finish, unless you are already in good shape. I'm starting my physical training now and would like to see what others are doing to get in shape. Maybe start a workout buddy system to keep us motivated and share training ideas.

If you're as pumped about this Drill as I am, chime in. I'm approaching this as a practice run and not a competition. My ultimate goal is to finish, and shoot well.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

I'm looking at the Elberstock LoDrag 3-day pack, with the chest pouch for essentials (compass, cell phone, swiss army knife, pen, note pad, signaling mirror, etc). I'll bring my AR with roughly 150rds in mags on the waist belt, and my XDm on a leg rig with 80rds (4 mags).

The shooting stages have been contact to 400 yards, so I'm upgrading my Leupold CQT to a SWFA SS 1-4 (or new 1-6 if I can wait that long). The farthest I've shot my AR is 200 yards, so I obviously need to practice at more extended ranges.

As far as training, I'm running/hiking 3+ miles 3-4 times a week and have come up with an MMA style (some call it cross-fit) workout regimen. I'm only 2 weeks into it, but I already prefer this to strictly "pumping iron".

Sometime in the near future I'm heading out to my deer lease to assess my fitness and get an initial idea of how I want my pack organized. I also plan on some live fire exercises.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

Right now my rifle has only BUIS. Will having a 1X optic be beneficial to this challenge? Im tempted to just focus on dialing in the BUIS, for the weight and cost advantage.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

TJ and crew at Tiger Valley are awesome. I would love to make this one.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: roostercomb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right now my rifle has only BUIS. Will having a 1X optic be beneficial to this challenge? Im tempted to just focus on dialing in the BUIS, for the weight and cost advantage. </div></div>

The shooting is contact to 400 yards (stationary and moving), so if you think you hit a moving target at 400 yards with your BUIS, I say go for it.

For me, I need an optic, preferably in the 1-4 or 1-6 range.

Glad you found the thread, rooster. . . .
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

We have "bug outs", I don't mean drills, I mean bug outs.

Every now and then we have fires in this canyon and we are told to leave. I have a horse trailer with living quarters, totally self contained. We keep it outfited and can live in it a long time. Normally we just go to the fair grounds in town where we can pen our horses, plus plug into their power.

If not I do have two generators.

As far as bugging out to the country, hell I'm already there.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have "bug outs", I don't mean drills, I mean bug outs.

Every now and then we have fires in this canyon and we are told to leave. I have a horse trailer with living quarters, totally self contained. We keep it outfited and can live in it a long time. Normally we just go to the fair grounds in town where we can pen our horses, plus plug into their power.

If not I do have two generators.

As far as bugging out to the country, hell I'm already there. </div></div>

My "bugout" scenario is less about bugging out to the country and more about getting home from work to my family, then “bugging in”. This is assuming a bugout is required due to a small hiccup in the social structure (tornado, wide spread power outage, riots, etc). If a true bugout is needed, I have other ideas, but honestly, I don’t have a country getaway easily accessible, so it gets pretty ugly. . . . . . .

Either way, my first priority is to traverse 75 miles from my work to my house. My real bugout bag will be heavier on most critical items (water, ammo, etc). This competition is more of a learning experience as I have never really put a real plan together for bugging out, much less practiced for it.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

I would also like to see any suggestions. Just joined. Any advice on a college budget as well is appreciated
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

A 1-4x scope will do fine. Most of the time 200-300yds is about the longest in the shooting side of the Bug Out. a magnified optic of some sort is defiantly an advantage sometimes from other obstacles that shooting parts. Like identifying targets.

Good plan on starting now, you are on the right path to success in finishing. Start slow and work your way up. Build that endurance and overall body fitness.

Good pack choice and shoe/sock choice are critical and you need this worked out way before the day of. Make sure it is comfortable as possible.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

New to the forum. SF Medic must be Ken. Working on SBR .300 BLK for the competetion, hope to be done before then for a super light build. Optic is undecided at the moment. XDM 9MM for secondary. Have a wolf 3 day pack, working on the contents. 5K/sprint triathlon training till May, then half-marathon training. Whoop!
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

How does one begin to train for something like this? I'd love to be able to participate as a long term fitness/shooting goal, but I have no clue how to prepare. The shooting part I have a handle on--more for me is what is required to meet the physical requirements of hauling gear over 15-20km. Running a marathon is one thing--running it with weight--thats another!
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

DocRDS, I honestly don’t know the "best" way to train for this. I think the important thing is to just start, and sooner is better than later.

My workout is a cross-fit style, with a lot of dips, pull-ups, pushups, and MMA style fitness training. Basically 45+ minutes of lifting with very short breaks in-between sets (~20 seconds). The lifting is not traditional weight lifting, but incorporates more compound movements to engage the core and work multiple muscle groups at once. I feel this gives more "useful" strength, and does not tend to build undue mass. Think lean MMA fighter vs bodybuilder. You can YouTube "MMA workout" to see what I'm talking about. I usually finish with 20-30 minutes of treadmill walking at roughly 4mph at 6-12° incline, with my 30# pack (sand in it currently). I hate cardio so I've gotten to where I bring my (unloaded) pistol or M4 onto the treadmill and work on my grip, or sight picture, or malfunction drills, etc. This seems to take my mind off of walking. . . .

Again this is what I do. I subscribe to the theory of anything is better than nothing, so some days I just lift, or walk. . . .

I've also found it beneficial to break the time between now and the BOD into chunks to provide an immediate urgency to getting fit/learning skills, and to provide short term goals to motivate. Months 1-3 I’m working out to get in shape with a couple of 10k "fun runs" at the end of this time to give me a goal. Starting in month 3 I will start buying gear for my bag and practicing with the items therein. My dad (SFMedic) and I have already taken a hiking trip with our packs and found out some useful things. We’ll shoot and continue to practice survival skills on a regular basis.
That’s our plan, and it seems to be working. I’ll let SFMedic comment on his progress, but I can tell you he has a fire lit under him to get into shape. I know he’s made great progress, and with 6+ months left, I know he’ll be in fighting shape when the BOD gets here in the Fall.

I've come up with a list for my bag that I'll post in the next couple of days. If any of you guys want to share or comment, please do.

Locke, have you decided on what barrel for your 300BLK? Noveske? You going to run your can at the BOD, or is that even allowed?
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: planebuilder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking at the Elberstock LoDrag 3-day pack....... XDm on a leg rig with 80rds (4 mags).

</div></div>

Ive done it 4-5 times.

Good pack, but most people carry too much gear, myself included. I think you will regret the leg rig after walking with it for 15 miles. Tried that exactly ONCE.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Airone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 1-4x scope will do fine. Most of the time 200-300yds is about the longest in the shooting side of the Bug Out. a magnified optic of some sort is defiantly an advantage sometimes from other obstacles that shooting parts. Like identifying targets.

Good plan on starting now, you are on the right path to success in finishing. Start slow and work your way up. Build that endurance and overall body fitness.

Good pack choice and shoe/sock choice are critical and you need this worked out way before the day of. Make sure it is comfortable as possible.
</div></div>

Listen to this man. He usually finishes 1st or 2nd every year.

 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

Thanks for the advice micro. I hiked ~5 miles with the leg rig and it felt perfect, no issues whatsoever, but I'll keep an eye on it. There will be several more “trial runs” of longer duration before the event, so if there is an issue, I hope to find it out beforehand. Did you run a waist rig?

I'm afraid I'll be in the "too much gear" category, but I've never had a BOB, so I don't know what is essential and what is unnecessary. . . . Again, I’ll have several trial runs with a fully loaded pack, so hopefully I’ll have the organization squared away, and the kinks worked out.

Shoes will be some sort of cross trainer, medium top shoe. I have some comfortable hunting boots, but they’re not <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> comfortable. . . . .

Airone, Micro, I'd appreciate any other suggestions if you guys care to share.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

Micro is right, most carry too much gear.

There are some who don't mind the drop leg the entire way and I have seen some with gear on the other leg. It bugs the crap out of me.

Build up miles hiking. Take some hikes/walks and work on building distance. Then others work on speed. Go light on the weight till close to the BOD. Work on building your endurance. Unless you have been running and going distance a good bit, don't try running with a loaded pack, you are asking for trouble. Knees and ankles don't like that too much and they will tell you about it.

Whatever your shoe choice, make sure you get miles in them in soft and rough ground. They need to be broken in before any long hike.

 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How does one begin to train for something like this?</div></div>

Ruck up and hump.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

Airone, do you jog a portion of the drill? I jogged roughly 1.5 miles (100-200 yards at a time) with my ruck and leg rig and the leg rig bounced alot, but I didn'd find it uncomfortable (granted it was a short distance).

I've been using my cross training Asic's for all of my hiking/running. They have ~70 miles on them, and seem to be comfortable, though there were a few small "hot spots" on a couple of my toes after the 5 mile hike (probably due to my untrained feet). I'll end up buying my BOD shoes in the late summer and use those through the BOD.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

No date right now that I'm aware of. In the past, it's been in mid-September, early October from what I've read.

As soon as I know a date, I'll post it.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

I'm going with a Noveske 10"... Just sent off my SBR paperwork yesterday. I will probably run without can just for the weight advantage.

Do you guys who have done this before recommend using a running shoe? I do everything in my asics, although I need a new pair (got about 550-600 miles on these ones).

Do you have to successfully complete each challenge or do you just get penalized if you cannot complete one?
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

I just mexi-carried my Glock 26 in a Comp-Tac IWB, same as I do every day. I dont walk around in a thigh rig very often, so I go with what I know works. Im the 2nd from the left with the multicam chest rig under my shirt.
0a03abed.jpg


Half the people go "Full-Tacticool" and open carry everything. The other half go "grey-man" and do their best to conceal their gear. Most my friends go grey. The idea is to not attract attention.
BOD2011008.jpg

BOD2011009.jpg

BOD2011004.jpg



The entire BOD photo album is here.
http://s1091.photobucket.com/albums/i391/andrewquant/
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

Nice Micro. What chest rig is that, I like how minimal it is.

Did you have any issues with the IWB holster during the physical challenges (climbing walls, etc)? I need to check out my OWB holster and see what it's like during a hike. I wear it often and have had zero issues with it, plus it's comfortable, and easily concealed....

I'll for sure stow my AR, I'm still trying to figure out the pistol situation. Thanks for the link and the pics, good to hear from guys that have done this.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

Its a tactical tailor mini MAV, with a blue force gear double AR-10 mag shingle, and a double pistol mag shingle. I had more than 3 mags, but the rest were inside the pack.

No issues with IWB here, I flew over the obstacles compared to most.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

And it begins!


My biggest mistakes is forgetting to repack tools or whatever items I use constantly. Make a list- inventory ur gear!

Know your zero. Sounds basic- ud b suprised.
Learn to shoot w/ one hand- left and right.
Test ur water purification b4 ur asked to purify and drink!
Bring a poncho- weather here is unpredictable
Get in shape now! Less than half actually ever finnish.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

Alright, just bought my bag, Elberstock Lo-Drag, and the Tactical Tailor Mini MAV like Microsuck has shown above. I ended up getting the BlueForce Helium Whisper shingles for the pistol and AR mags.

Looks like I'll be working out the kinks in two weeks at a 10k "fun run". No rifle or ammo, just the chest rig and ruck with 35 pounds in it. There is a 1 hour, 25 minute time limit for the 10k, so the pace should be challenging (less than 14 minute miles).
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

From the Tiger Valley calendar:

Bug Out Drill - Waco, TX
When
Saturday, Oct 6, 2012
Where
Joe Russell Rd & Hwy 84, Prairie Hill, TX (map)
Description
/Course Description/Equipment Requirements

Time: Sign-in at 7:30am; Drill begins at 8:00am

Price: $150


I plan to attend this event. I have a Gunslinger II pack on the way. I will be using an LMT 10.5" SBR and will likely bring the suppressor in case I need to keep a lower profile. Optic is as of yet undecided. I'd like to have a 1-4 scope, but I don't know if that will happen. I might end up with a 3-9 and offset T1 setup as I'd just need the offset mount. Pistol will be a Glock 19.

For training I'll be continuing the training that I'm currently doing for the Competition Dynamics 24 hour Sniper Adventure Challenge in July. This includes hiking in the greenbelt with a loaded pack as well as weight and cardio training.

I've been practicing field craft including land nav, knots, fire making, etc. I have most of those skills already, but they're very rusty from disuse.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

Whoa!!! Thanks Vinson, I looked last week and the date was not posted. There is no mention if it is a team event this year or individual.

Great choice on the Gunslinger II pack. I was torn between that and the Lo-Drag. . . ended up getting the Lo-Drag.

I'm patiently waiting on SWFA to release their 1-6x24 ($999), but it's killing me. I've been training with my BUIS, which is actually helpful because I suck with open sights, but I'd like to have my optic!!!

I'll bring my XDm, but am still undecided with what method of carry for it (IWB, OWB, Leg Rig, ect...).

The Competition Dynamics challenge looks awesome. I talked to my cousin (Locke-n-Loaded) about this competition several weeks ago. We wont make this years challenge, but we'd really like to do it next year (assuming he doesn't chicken out)
smile.gif
.
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

why does all the cool stuff happen so far away
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: microsuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just mexi-carried my Glock 26 in a Comp-Tac IWB, same as I do every day. I dont walk around in a thigh rig very often, so I go with what I know works. Im the 2nd from the left with the multicam chest rig under my shirt.
0a03abed.jpg


Half the people go "Full-Tacticool" and open carry everything. The other half go "grey-man" and do their best to conceal their gear. Most my friends go grey. The idea is to not attract attention.
BOD2011008.jpg

BOD2011009.jpg

BOD2011004.jpg



The entire BOD photo album is here.
http://s1091.photobucket.com/albums/i391/andrewquant/ </div></div>

Im the guy 2nd from the right, who would have liked his face blurred on a public forum. But since my buddy "under the bussed" me, I can own it.
I am running this again this year, my 4-5th year. I have prior military background and started this in cammie pants, issued boots, a military assault pack with 40+#, chest rig, full fighting load and rifle. In Texas, back when TJ ran this in July or August in 110 deg. Ugh - I learned quick.
Important stuff to consider in my post - I run everything the same as I have it in my trunk to allow me to walk home my 30 mile commute. I do not "game" this event but will operate using all the latitude the "rules" allow. I will add in a rifle or piece of gear to test and check.
I firmly believe that anyone who wears exposed weapons and ammo are asking to be shot in the face (I also work in a blue city and have to walk through 5 city's to get home.)so everything I run can be concealed, including my vest and plates, ect. I try to encompass grey man.
Bug out drill mindset
Mindset plays a huge part in this event. It took me several years to get in the correct zone. I now finish and work under the mindset of "cast or finish" The only way I am not finishing now is if they have to force ably remove me to give me med attention.
In addition to this mindset is actually having the physical ability to meet the mindset. I am not a thin fit guy by my own standards, but I start "training" for this event in early march. I have stopped training in November, a month after. I dont "prep" for the event, I try to maintain a fitness cycle I can keep up and live with. Its April and I am already rucking 12 miles non stop with the full load at just over 3.3mph. In May I will up the mileage to 15 nonstop with the full load. This year I will actually begin to train past 15 miles and push to closer to 20, as I am going to participate in the Bataan Death March in White Sands next March, and in years after that, spend a week or two a year on the Appalachian Trail... I run twice a week at a good cardio pace for 5 miles. Not fast, but steady and long. Takes me about an hour. The running has actually made a significant impact on my ability. I firmly believe that if you do not have the ability to be foot mobile for a significant period of time and still be effective, you are not prepared. I have access to 4 wheelers and all that cool guy stuff too, but its a force multiplier, not a needed item to move from A to B. Your mind and body are your greatest weapons.
Concealablity
I run everything hidden - I have a knife on my belt with a multi tool and thats all you see.
I ruck with a g19 with TRLs light in a raven holster with a wilderness belt. I have never had issues with rubbing once you get the pack adjusted. I can deploy the handgun quickly. The rifle is currently stored in the trunk and can be broken down and stowed in the pack. Last year (current pics) I carried an sbr to see if I wanted to switch to a 10in pistol. I do. I dont plan on engaging targets past 200 (at max) and only in specific situations - my plan is move fast and avoid conflict. I can get it out of the bag quickly. I carry several mags for rifle and pistol on the outside of the bag. The crappy shirt I wear is that baggy and a generic walmart dickies brand that manual laborers wear. I can wear a vest and plates underneath and a small chest rig if needed once home....
Clothes
Layers are important. I wear cotton outer shirt for texas summer. My base layers are under Armour to move moisture. I wear silk sock liners and socks. I actually experimented with socks for over a year until I found my combination and now have 7 sets of socks and liners.... Those pants are northface convertible and have been though 4 bugout drills and still have not failed. I wear merrells mid moab ventilators in gortex. I will be switching to a waterproof breathable trail runner next year. I find a hat and bandana combo to be best for me and will sometimes wear flight gloves to protect my hands and keep the blood flow restricted.
Gear
I run some close out bags from REI that DONT LOOK TACTICAL. Sure I have an ILBE in marpat and a gunslinger too, but my USMC Officer friend put is best after an insurgent discussion. "If I saw you wearing that and you were not identified as a cop or military, I would shoot you or detain you" .... And he LOVES freedom.
It is important to break a pack in and organize your gear. Proper adjustments are made with use, same goes for your boots.
As for what I carry, well, I wont give you an itemized list, but I have no problem showing you pictures from past bug out drills. I do carry redundant fire, water, cutting, rope, medical, navigation and illumination. If an item does not have the ability to be used for more than one thing (shy of water/food) then it does not make the cut. There are some people who carry as little as possible for this event and run with 20#-30#lbs. With rifle and mags I am consistently at 40# not including 4l of water.
Guns -
I carry a rifle and pistol with 3 mags each.
Think LONG AND HARD. Are you getting into a firefight unsupported and looking for trouble, or are you simply looking to move as far as possible as fast as possible or something in between? I dont want to have to be engaged in a gun fight, but plan for it... During this drill and in real life, I also have a crew along my way home and prefer to operate with a group to help each other. There are no rules against it, and when in a gun fight, bring all the friends with rifles you can...
Here are some pictures of my kit from past years.
BOD2011029.jpg

BugoutDrill08004.jpg

BugoutDrill08009E.jpg

BugoutDrill08027E.jpg

AllLinesloadout010.jpg

072.jpg

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some of the obsticals are rough and require some thought to master. The crux of this is how you think and preform when worn down and under duress.
Take my advice and lessons with a grain of salt, but remember that I have done this every year I have been able. I have constantly improved my standing, and begun to focus on group participation. I also carry my gear the whole 15 miles and dont drop pack and rifle for the 5 mile road run the last two years.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Based on my training and planning for this event, my expectation is to be able to complete this event, wake up the next day and do it again.</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">I was capable of that last year. </span>
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

Damn you guys pack a lot of crap. I didn't carry that much when I was humping the jungles of SE Asia.

I'm the guy who put "Light" into "Light Infantry"
 
Re: 2012 TV BugOut Drill - Training, Gear, Etc

And in the jungles of S.E.A. you also, more than likely were not expected to have climbing and rappelling gear for navigating overpasses/ravines, cutting a multitude of barriers from wood to rebar, caring all of your own extended medical kit, ect and being a self supporting individual unit.
I respect your service, but keep in mind both of us served in very different military machines.
This document will show you that the kit we run today is much different.
http://thedonovan.com/archives/modernwarriorload/ModernWarriorsCombatLoadReport.pdf
Reference pg 14 where the rifle squad leaders basic fighting load is 60lbs, while the approach load or emergency approach load can be from 90 -130 lbs.
All said and done,40 lbs of kit including weapon and ammo is not an unreasonable load to carry in-order to self sustain for up to a week.