I've decided to get an 22 lr conversion upper for my AR-15. I practice with my 22 bolt action regularly for precision practice, but I have been having so much fun with the AR-15 I bought last year I want to practice cheapish with it (as long as my ammo holds out, anyway.) I almost ordered the CMMG bolt conversion, but read there were accuracy issues, and I wanted to use my Sparrow 22 instead of the 762-SDN-6 I usually have on it for obvious reasons. I am looking for a flat top AR upper that feels AR-15y and not 22 lr-ish. It needs to reliably shoot subsonics with my Sparrow suppressor. I looked at the M&P 15-22 and it was okay I guess, but for $500 I was thinking there was a better upper I could put on and it would feel more like my AR than a different rifle, trigger. Any recommendations? I see a bunch out there, some better reviewed than others, but don't touch on reliability with suppressor and subsonic rounds. It's usually high velocity rounds that are used, and that's a bad thing since I practice in my back yard. Thanks in advance.
Suppressors 22 lr AR Upper, Suppressor/Subsonic Reliable
- Thread starter RFtinkerer
- Start date
CMMG 22B7CC6; its their 16" Sierra upper with stainless steel bolt. Whittaker's Guns has the cheapest price around, will ship, and when I called about a month ago they had them in stock.
I built a dedicated 22LR upper last month with a PSA/PTAC stripped upper, DPMS FA/Dust cover/Charge Handle, CMMG barrel & parked bolt combo, a UTG Super-Slim 13" handguard and a simple thread protector for just over $400. I run a Huntertown Guardian on it and it sounds good and functions 100% with CCI SV, though you get some buffer/bolt noise so its not as quiet to your ear when firing as it actually sounds when you stand away from it a bit.
I built a dedicated 22LR upper last month with a PSA/PTAC stripped upper, DPMS FA/Dust cover/Charge Handle, CMMG barrel & parked bolt combo, a UTG Super-Slim 13" handguard and a simple thread protector for just over $400. I run a Huntertown Guardian on it and it sounds good and functions 100% with CCI SV, though you get some buffer/bolt noise so its not as quiet to your ear when firing as it actually sounds when you stand away from it a bit.
Which brings up another question. I won a .22LR conversion kit for my AR at Knob Creek last year, and I'm wondering if it's safe to use it with my new Surefire SOCOM 556 QD?
Any issues with baffle strikes shooting .22LR in a NATO 5.56 M4 barrel?
Would be nice to be able to plink with the Colt and the silencer, which by the way works quite well on my Walther P22. I Rockset an adapter to the threaded muzzle adapter for the Walther and I can screw it on to the Walther long barrel and it shoots just fine and dandy, very quiet especially with subsonic ammo. The only problem is the sights, which unless I can figure something out makes it a close range or "spray and pray" weapon.
Any issues with baffle strikes shooting .22LR in a NATO 5.56 M4 barrel?
Would be nice to be able to plink with the Colt and the silencer, which by the way works quite well on my Walther P22. I Rockset an adapter to the threaded muzzle adapter for the Walther and I can screw it on to the Walther long barrel and it shoots just fine and dandy, very quiet especially with subsonic ammo. The only problem is the sights, which unless I can figure something out makes it a close range or "spray and pray" weapon.
Thanks for the feedback, guys. As for your question Altnews, there will be no baffle strikes BUT 22 lr creates lead vapor deposits that attach to the baffles. Thus the need to regularly disassemble 22 suppressors to clean out the lead. You should see my Sparrow after a couple thousand rounds...you will quickly conclude to never let 22 lr near your expensive centerfire suppressor.
I have a Nordic components NC-22 upper with 20" and 6.5" barrels. It runs like a champ with almost everything for about 2k rounds, then will need a cleaning. Accuracy is pretty reasonable, and it doesn't feel like a 22LR cheapy plastic toy upper. With the 20" barel installed it is actually heavier than my 3gun competiton upper. Nordics have been unobtanium for nearly 2 years, but DPMS's 22 upper is the Nordic bolt design and parts of it are made by Nordic:
DPMS AR-15 A3 Flat-Top Conversion Upper Assembly 22 Long Rifle 1 16
To keep bulk pack 22LR subsonicwill require a maximium barrel length of 4.5" with the Sparrow; otherwise stick with CCI Standard velocity to remain subsonic. Also, I would personally NEVER put 22LR ammo through one of my centerfire cans after cleaning my Sparrow for the first time. After ~2k rounds it was gunked up somthing good!! Even using a slightly stronger version of the "dip" (50:50 Acetic Acid:H2O2) and sonicators in the lab it took well over 3 hours to come clean.
My Toy:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rimfire-section/210333-nordic-22-tax-stamp-toy.html
DPMS AR-15 A3 Flat-Top Conversion Upper Assembly 22 Long Rifle 1 16
To keep bulk pack 22LR subsonicwill require a maximium barrel length of 4.5" with the Sparrow; otherwise stick with CCI Standard velocity to remain subsonic. Also, I would personally NEVER put 22LR ammo through one of my centerfire cans after cleaning my Sparrow for the first time. After ~2k rounds it was gunked up somthing good!! Even using a slightly stronger version of the "dip" (50:50 Acetic Acid:H2O2) and sonicators in the lab it took well over 3 hours to come clean.
My Toy:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rimfire-section/210333-nordic-22-tax-stamp-toy.html
Interesting options here. Keep the feedback coming guys, especially personal experiences positive or negative, I really appreciate it.
Bummer. I had kind of counted on being able to use the SOCOM on my .22's and my .17HMR. It's not the cost of a Sparrow, it's the flinking BATFE wait-list crapola.
About "The Dip," does this have a solid chemistry basis for lead removal, or is it primarily for carbon gunk?
Hm...I wonder if electrolysis would work...I'm no chemist and I flunked those courses but I do know you can plate-out silver from film developer using electrolysis. I wonder if there is a combination of chemicals and electrical current that would effectively de-lead silencers or for that matter barrels. Anybody know?
Don't spend much time with the dip. I was a huge dumbass with it and soaked my entire sparrow in it for a long time, ended up etching the exterior. I now use Hoppes and scrape--works fine for me. I wouldn't try electrolysis unless you are sure it will not hurt it and you NEED to. I don't worry about absolutely clean baffles anymore. Just remove a lot and go until the next time.
It has a solid basis for chemical removal of lead without damaging stainless steel, titanium or iconel. It will destroy aluminum. I find it can dull finishes a little and I'm not sure what the chemistry is behind this, but I'm not worried about it. Paint is cheap. It also works OK for "carbon gunk" but I think there are better products (CLR) for this.
Use "the dip" with caution as it produces lead acetate which is soluble in water and thus much more "bio-available" than solid lead. I use gloves and extreme cleanliness when cleaning a .22 can with "the dip", not so much on centerfire cans as they produce very little lead.
I have a Spikes Tactical upper (not made anymore - patent issues) with a YHM Mite suppressor. Its on an SBR lower, with a 10" barrel.
It shoots CCI Standards subsonic reliably.
It shoots CCI Standards subsonic reliably.
The peroxide oxidizes the solid lead and makes it soluble, then the acetic acid in the vinegar chelates the lead.
Pb(s) + H2O2 +2H+→ Pb2+(aq) + 2H2O
Pb(s) + H2O2 +2CH3COOH → Pb(CH3COO)2(aq) + 2H2O
Google for a PDF article called "A novel surface cleaning method for chemical removal of fouling lead layer from chromium surfaces" on researchgate.net if you want more. For some reason I can't link to it directly, but the link via Google is live.
It works but it's every bit as toxic as everyone says it is. And not good for aluminum.
Fascinating! It has real promise indeed, but I would wait for severe fouling before using it and I'd limit the number of times it's used as you suggest.
The only real problem is the Hydrogen Peroxide. The Dip calls for a 35% H2O2 supply, and what's available at the pharmacy for medical use is only 3%. Hydrogen Peroxide, being an energetic material, is one of the components that can be used in IED production, so Homeland Security keeps a close eye on those who purchase other than 3% medical H2O2. Beauty shops sell a higher percentage H2O2 for hair bleaching, but I know for a fact that DHS has sent warning flyers around that ask beauty shops to report large sales of H2O2, particularly to strange looking men dressed in fatigues.
Obviously there are plenty of lawful uses for H2O2, so I mention this simply as information for those who don't want to get a visit from DHS for buying a 50 gallon drum of 100% H2O2 (which would be incredibly dangerous to have around anyway...)
I'll save the article and give it a try when I need to. Thanks very much for the information.
The only real problem is the Hydrogen Peroxide. The Dip calls for a 35% H2O2 supply, and what's available at the pharmacy for medical use is only 3%. Hydrogen Peroxide, being an energetic material, is one of the components that can be used in IED production, so Homeland Security keeps a close eye on those who purchase other than 3% medical H2O2. Beauty shops sell a higher percentage H2O2 for hair bleaching, but I know for a fact that DHS has sent warning flyers around that ask beauty shops to report large sales of H2O2, particularly to strange looking men dressed in fatigues.
Obviously there are plenty of lawful uses for H2O2, so I mention this simply as information for those who don't want to get a visit from DHS for buying a 50 gallon drum of 100% H2O2 (which would be incredibly dangerous to have around anyway...)
I'll save the article and give it a try when I need to. Thanks very much for the information.
I bought the MNP 15-22. Very impressed. Understand it's not like all those Walther - Colt MP5 ...knock offs. Smith did a nice job on this training kit.
A higher % of H2O2 will make the dip work faster, since the rate limiting step is the oxidation of the lead. The 3% stuff will work just fine because you're not in a hurry. You don't really want to be handling high concentrations of peroxide anyway.
You're correct, and some dilution of the acetic acid might reduce any etching. I'm thinking Kodak Stop Bath...if it can be found, would be ideal. Also, I think plugging the bore, standing the can vertically and filling it with the Dip would be much better than immersing the whole can, so as to protect the external finish...
Thank you all for your input. I researched more and saw that several had to modify their triggers to fire subsonics, which may or may not be true for some of you, but I was unwilling to do that on my lower. Therefore I reconsidered and bought the SW M&P 15-22. Although it is definitely more plasticy than I wanted, it does satisfy most of my criteria. I bought the basic model at $400 and then pulled off the flash suppressor. I added my Sparrow, which required shims that I fortunately had left from my AAC 762-SDN-6 adapter installations. It easily fired standard velocity reliably but failed to reset the trigger with subsonics I had. There is a modification with yellow springs and hammer hook shave, but I decided to get the CMC trigger instead, lighter for reset. It now fires flawlessly with subsonics and has a great trigger to boot, with a total of $560 invested. It works for me and is a lot of fun in the back yard. There is a thunk for the action, but is pretty quiet and actually the plasticy thunk is better than the metallic AR-15...
The taccom3g is reliable with subsonic.
Moet of these videos show my taccom3g upper running GemTech subsonic
A few more videos
2013-12-28 [url]www.TexasGunTrust.com Taccom3g upper - YouTube[/url]
And another
2013-12-28. [url]www.TexasGunTrust.com 11 year old & Taccom3g upper - YouTube[/url]
2013-12-28 [url]www.TexasGunTrust.com 11 year old shoots taccom3g & sparrow - YouTube[/url]
And the tacsol along with my taccom3g
2013 11 29 [url]www.TexasGunTrust.com Tac Sol Taccom 3G uppers - YouTube[/url]
And indoors
2013-10-3 [url]www.TexasGunTrust.com Taccom 3G .22 LR Dedicated AR-15 Upper reciever - YouTube[/url]
A few more videos
2013-12-28 [url]www.TexasGunTrust.com Taccom3g upper - YouTube[/url]
And another
2013-12-28. [url]www.TexasGunTrust.com 11 year old & Taccom3g upper - YouTube[/url]
2013-12-28 [url]www.TexasGunTrust.com 11 year old shoots taccom3g & sparrow - YouTube[/url]
And the tacsol along with my taccom3g
2013 11 29 [url]www.TexasGunTrust.com Tac Sol Taccom 3G uppers - YouTube[/url]
And indoors
2013-10-3 [url]www.TexasGunTrust.com Taccom 3G .22 LR Dedicated AR-15 Upper reciever - YouTube[/url]
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