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22 lr beyond 100

W

Wesek

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 7, 2011
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While at the range today I decided to try my trusty 22 out on the long range steel targets. Using JBM ballistics I was able to reliably connect on the 300 yard steel (10"x 20" silhouette) using Wolf MT in a Marlin XT-22, but 400 yards was much less consistent with only about a 35% success rate and was never able to hit the 500 yard target. I realize a lot of the difference was due to the wind, or to be more precise... my lack of skill reading it, but I'm curious if anyone has found a bullet style or brand that seems to work better than others at extended distances.

From previous testing I know my rifle doesn't especially care for the Wolf MT (seems to have a lot of fliers) and I didn't really have the time to try anything else.

According to JBM, 500 yards is the about the maximum I can get out of my setup so... Is it doable, or am I just pissing in the wind?
 
Just keep in mind that the farther you shoot, the slower the bullet, so the wind really has a big effect. Even a 5mph breeze can make it really difficult if it's not perfectly constant, which it never is...
The load I use has 95 MOA of drop at that distance (500 yards), and a 5mph breeze pushes it over 38 inches. If that wind is shifting, you can double that... Under less than perfect conditions, most of us would have to be really lucky to hit anything smaller than a school bus. Not impossible though.
 
Yeah, that's about the same dope I was using (27.8 mils of drop with 2 mils of windage for 5 mph). I have no doubt that my wind reading skill was the limiting factor, but still wonder about the ammo. I have noticed that people seem to use wildly varying bc numbers for different bullets and am curious if anyone has experienced a perceptible difference with other bullets.

As an example: I have read several people mention that subsonic ammo is better at 100 yards than HV, but my rifle shoots CCI Blazer better than CCI SV at that diatance (sub MOA) which is opposite of their performance at 50. Unfortunately I am almost out of Blazer so I didn't take any of it to try.

Has anyone tried CCI Green Tag beyond 100?
 
I shoot 22LR to 200 yards. I have never had any interest in shooting beyond the effective killing range of a weapon. I can and do kill crows at 200 and a little beyond. If you will shoot groups on paper, you will see the futility of going beyond that for any practical purpose. But if you enjoy it, good for you.
 
I would be very happy with a 35% hit rate on steel at 400 yards. Obviously, wind is a factor, but even with no wind, there is an accuracy cone to 22LR. For me, 5 shot groups average about .5 MOA at 50 yds, .9 MOA at 100 yards, 1.8 MOA at 200 yards and so on. I haven't tried at 300, but we did (or maybe still do) a comp at 300 on this Forum. 400 is very iffy. At 500, you are spraying and praying. At that point, you aren't really testing personal skill, it is really about luck more than skill. My guess is that you would need an 7' X 7' backdrop to capture a perfectly centered 5 shot group at 500 yards. Just a guess.
 
The above is almost exactly my experience as well as a few CP rimfire shooters I know. I have long wondered why the RF doubles MOA from 100 to 200 meters.
 
Have shot some really nice groups at 200 yd. using Eley Subsonic hollowpoint (3/4 moa) about the same at 250 yd. past that it gets iffy. 300 yd. groups open up to 2 moa, might string 3 or 4 shots into 1-2 moa but seem to always throw 1 or 2 out of the group. Have weight sorted which helps some but that is just a long ways for a slow moving bullet to be accurate. Actually had pretty good luck with Gemtech subsonic at distance, the 42 gr. bullet retains a little more energy and is deflected a little less. It's nothing special at 50 but starts to show good accuracy at 100 yd. Have tried Eley sport, target, subsonic hollowpoint, match, Edge, as well as Wolf MT, SK match, CCI green tag, and CCI subsonic hollowpoint. All the above was shot with a CZ 452 and Annie 1710.
 
clmayfield said:
I would be very happy with a 35% hit rate on steel at 400 yards. Obviously, wind is a factor, but even with no wind, there is an accuracy cone to 22LR. For me, 5 shot groups average about .5 MOA at 50 yds, .9 MOA at 100 yards, 1.8 MOA at 200 yards and so on. I haven't tried at 300, but we did (or maybe still do) a comp at 300 on this Forum. 400 is very iffy. At 500, you are spraying and praying. At that point, you aren't really testing personal skill, it is really about luck more than skill. My guess is that you would need an 7' X 7' backdrop to capture a perfectly centered 5 shot group at 500 yards. Just a guess.
Click to expand...
About exactly my experience as well Carter. At 200, clays are not a problem. I can get out to 300 with my elevation maxed (at max power) and get decent hits. After that it is just tossing lead in the air and seeing where it comes down.
 
After 100 yds high speed is preferred. I shoot to 400 yds with the rimfire and subsonic just has too many vert. problems. Inside 100 the slow stuff is the ticket though.
 
Wolf Match Extra is phenomenal at 200. a total of 5/8 vertical spread out of my CZ452. Have no idea beyond that on the same ammo. I belonged to a club 25 years ago that started a fun group called the 400 yd. 22 club. Anyone that could ring a head/shoulder gong two times in a row at 400 yds. got a patch or sweatshirt indicating same. A lot of folks couldn't do it. Mainly because back then scopes, bases and open sights wouldn't allow that much elevation. I would imagine that trying to hit something at 500 would be just wasting ammo, and if you did it wasn't due to skill, it would be all luck. I used a buddies enfield .22 trainer with ladder sights to do it at 400.
 
It's pretty fun taking a .22 out past the usual 50 yard range. So far the farthest I been out to was a little over 200 yards. It was a trainwreck so I backed down to 150 where I do pretty decent. Mind you my targets at that range aren't paper so I have no clue how horrible the groups are at that range. It's odd the looks I get when I'm at an actual rifle range and using my .22 at the 100 yard range instead of the 50. It's almost like these people have never shot a .22 before and are clueless that it does go farther than 50 yards.
 
22lr beyond 200yds

I rarely shoot 22lr out past 200yds. I have never posted a 200yd tgt for the 30rd challenge because I completely missed the paper on the 1st bull and ran out of time. It is possible to shoot decent groups at 200yds though. My rig just lacks the elevation range of adjustment to get zeroed at that range. I do often shoot at pieces of broken clay birds on the hillside at the extreme end of our local range. This is at 230yds and since you get the visual feedback of dirt and dust being kicked up from each round you can quickly "dust and adjust" using the good old KY windage to get on tgt. My old Win mod 52 can fairly consistently break the clay bird pieces as long as the wind is low or at least fairly steady. I had my daughter and her BF shooting at this range with 22lr and 17hmr the other day. They both were able to break multiple tgts at 230yds using only their visual feedback and my spotting for them within about 3-4 shots to get on tgt. Once you find the correct hold over and wind offset it is easy to repeat this until the wind shifts. That is hitting a 2-3" tgt with about 20-25% hit rate. We were using CCI mini-mags for this most of the time. Not because it was the most accurate but because it had much less bullet drop and thus kept the POI in the sight picture better.

As a kid one of our favorite passtimes was to hike down to a local RR bridge when the creek was up and flooding. There was a bend in the creek that allowed us to shoot out to about 1/4 mi at objects floating in the creek with no fear of bullet ricocette since there was a large hillside several hundred feet tall to act as a solid backstop. Shooting from a standing, unsupported position using a single shot lever action Ithaca rifle with only rudimentary iron sights, I was often able to sink glass bottles and cans at silly ranges like 3-4 hundred yards. The splash in the water makes it really easy to adjust for the next shot. Hell the front sight was so wide that I had to make sure I was aiming using the mid point in the sight as a visual reference. Yeah, I know hitting a small moving tgt offhand at that range is more luck than skill but we did it enough to make it more than just random events. In those days, I had only one gun and I shot it a lot and well. It was not a tack driver but it was loads of fun. I shot all manner of rocks, bottles and critters with it. I do not ever recall shooting it from a bench on paper. I still have it. Maybe I should try that just for grins and to see how bad it really was, lol. I do not even recall ever cleaning the bbl when I was a kid. I am sure we did, as my Dad taught me to always clean and oil down my guns after each use. I just don't remember doing it. Under the right conditions it is possible to hit tgts way out their with a 22lr. Not sure how useful it is. But it can be fun.

Irish
 
I have set up targets and shot groups with super sonic 22 ammo, and the tiny groups get huge at ~ 80 yards when the bullet goes sub sonic.

The way to get a small group at 100 yards with a 22 is to lob in sub sonic ammo.

This is not practical. Switch to 22 mag, 17M2, or 17HMR for beyond 75 yards.
 
After posting on this forum yesterday, I was off work and decided to go to the range and do some 200yd shooting with the 22. I tried both supersonic hi vel ammo and match grade sub sonics. While the high vel was easier to get onto the paper, I ended up using some Lapua match ammo to fire a string of six five shot groups onto a target for score on our 30rd challenge. Results were good. The amount of hold over is extreme at that distance but was still able to average about 2.4" for all five groups with a best group that was about 2". Will say it was a very nice calm day with no winds to deal with. Last time I tried this with my Mod 52 and was lucky to get groups of 3 inches or so using CCI mini-mags. This time I used the Remington and better albeit slower ammo. Results were about what I had hoped. Pics are posted on the sticky page.

Irish
 
The thing a lot of folks don’t consider is the velocity spreads of these Sub Sonic .22LR’s. Winds are one thing but when you take in to account that you are starting MV is only around 1050FPS or so and you have a SD of 20-30 across a 10 round spread that’s velocity error of 2-3% which will enviably cause a quite a bit of vertical stringing at extended ranges.

I had this exact experience earlier this last winter, a few of us at work were entertaining the idea of shooting .22LR to 1000 meters at work. I have some experience in the ELR arena with .50 BMG and figured if I can do 4k with the 50 I might be able to push .22LR to 1k. We started with the ammo I had at arm’s reach which was CCI Green Tag and Wolf MT, both shot tight (sub-MOA) at 50m, at 100m both would hold about a MOA across the horizon but the Wolf MT was already showing 2-3 MOA vertical and the CCI Green Tag was string 4-6 MOA. Needless to say the CCI was shelved as I moved to the 300m line, but even the Wolf started stringing badly at 5-6 MOA of vertical.

That’s about when I had the epiphany about the SD, wind while a bitch it can be corrected for but you have to have super consistent velocities or you are never have a repeatable hits. So I picked up some Lapua Midas, Eley Tenex and Edge. The gun showed a preference for the Eley Tenex and the Edge, both would hold just about 1 MOA at 100m. The Edge would throw a random round from time to time giving a higher SD, it was almost as good and half the price.

Moving out to 400m I was able to keep it aright abound 2 MOA though about 1-2 out of 10 would string high or low, opening the groups up to 4 MOA on the vertical. I was a lot of fun busting clay pigeons off the berm with a fair amount of regularity once we got dialed in.

At 600m is where the fun stopped and things become difficult. Without a good ballistic calculator (or more correctly an accurate model for a .22LR projectile) we couldn’t seem to get an impact on the target board and no splash could be seen on the wet grass berm. We came back over to a rocky berm at 500m and managed to extrapolate some data to get a few splashes but the wet ground seemed to soak up those little bullets without much of an indicator.

Since then we haven’t had time to mess around with it again but if we get a chance this summer I’m going to get some more Tenex and swing for the fences. Hopefully the ground will dry up a bit too.
 
1000 yds wth a 22lr

Wow, 1000 yds with a 22lr? That is pushing it. I used to shoot centerfire rifles out to 1000yds. Mostly 30/06 and 308 but also some 338 Lap. At those distances, even the hi vel centerfires are working hard to get the job done. I cannot imagine what the elevations needed to be to get out to that distance with 22's. Would be more like shooting a howitzer than a rifle, lol. Sadly, I no longer have access to a place where I can safely shoot those extreme long distances. Does it ever dry up in Seattle??

My 200yd groups from yesterday were mostly showing the longest measurement to be in the vertical which confirms mostly that the velocity variable is driving the performance more than the aiming and firing of the rifle or the wind. Even at this shorter distance, I could see the shock wave trace of the bullet thru the humid air as it arced in a big rainbow trajectory from muzzle to tgt. Wish I had a high speed camera to record that. When I first started, I was practicing and confirming my hold over on a 2nd tgt. At first I was hitting into the dirt in front of the target. When I went down range to score the target, I found one bullet embedded sideways in the cardboard target with a little grass. It had lost so much energy bouncing in the grass that it could not penetrate the cardboard target and the plywood backing board.

Irish
 
Yes 1000yrd is a way long ways away for the little .22LR. I think it might be possible with the very best equipment in the very best of conditions but even then what quantifies as effective fires is going to be subjective. Many view it as an act of futility but there is something about this challenge that will continue drive some of us to try and push the bounds of marksmanship regardless of the fact that there is no practical application to it.

If nothing else it certainly gives one a dose of appreciation for the capabilities and performance of modern centerfire firearms. Spend a day lobbing 40 grain round nosed lead projectiles and you’ll find yourself in a mood of gratefulness to the ballistic gods next time you touch of some jacketed VLD boat tail at 3000+ FPS.
 
Wow. 1000 yards? And here I was thinking 500 was pushing it.

In my case, I barely had enough elevation in my set up for 500. I couldn't imagine what it would take for 1000.

Maybe next weekend I can get back to the range to do some more thorough testing.

Good shooting Irish. Now I don't even want try shooting groups at 200. I'm sure it would be embarassing.
 
At 1,000 yards, you aren't pushing the bounds of marksmanship, you are pushing the bounds of luck. That is spray and pray, not showing demonstrable skill with a rifle. Any results achieved will not be repeatable.
 
clmayfield said:
At 1,000 yards, you aren't pushing the bounds of marksmanship, you are pushing the bounds of luck. That is spray and pray, not showing demonstrable skill with a rifle. Any results achieved will not be repeatable.
Click to expand...

But if you get it on video, you can watch it on YouTube over and over...
 
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True that. It's like that shot with North Texas Rifle Precision when you film yourself shooting a golf ball. It takes a while to hit, but you don't show all the "practice" shots. And then after making the shot, you look at the camera and say, "all day long."
 
rth1800 said:
The above is almost exactly my experience as well as a few CP rimfire shooters I know. I have long wondered why the RF doubles MOA from 100 to 200 meters.
Click to expand...

When you consider the shape, SD and BC of a .22LR slug and then consider where it goes transonic, you will have your answer. For most .22LR HV ammo, it is between 100 and 150 yards where it goes transonic. In terms of groups, with most ammo, you get shotgun type patterns at the transonic point on out. You either have to start subsonic and account for the drop, or use the hypervelocity stuff that extends the transonic point out as far as possible.
 
clmayfield said:
True that. It's like that shot with North Texas Rifle Precision when you film yourself shooting a golf ball. It takes a while to hit, but you don't show all the "practice" shots. And then after making the shot, you look at the camera and say, "all day long."
Click to expand...

Yes, lol that is so true. I was once shooting a 45acp 1911 offhand at a 16oz Pepsi bottle filled with water at 150m distance. I was using 45acp tracer rounds to help me see where the shots fell. My best friend was filming this with his then new digital mini-movie cam. First shot hit 6" left following a big rainbow arc. 2nd shot hit 6" right. I had the elevation right and so, the 3rd shot drilled the pop bottle knocking it over. I turned to the camera and made some sort of smart a$$ remark, like "Let's see You do this". I was glad it was on film. But truly it was pure luck. We shot pistols at rocks at longish distance all the time but they are not all that accurate out that far. Shoot long enough you might hit the tgt. Or not. A buddy's Ruger Redhawk was one of the best for this sort of fun.

Irish
 
I recently told my sister in law to throw a clay pigeon for me to shoot with my 22. Hit it in the first try. She was so impressed that she insisted I do it again on video. I tried to resist but couldn't and ended up proving that it was a one time fluke...
 
I've done a bunch of this w/ .22 and out to 400 yards and have tried 500 yards. Wind is the killer. I have chrono'd a bunch of various ammo and agree on the ES of the ammo and how much of a vertical issue it becomes. Also, I see no benefit from using subsonic ammo (except maybe Lapua) as even HV goes subsonic very quickly. That being said, more velocity is your friend when going out to longer distances.

I typically use CCI Blazer 40g when shooting over 100 yards. For 100 and under, I use Eley or Lapua subsonic. When we shoot longer distance, I weigh the rounds as I would do w/ match .308 bullets/rounds and wax the tip. Here is my son engaging a 300 yard 8" target w/ CCI Blazer. Shooting 300 yards w/ a HV .22 is very similar to shooting a 175 SMK .308 at 1,000 yards in terms of flight time and windage effects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wG6te8-REA
 
Monday I was ringing an IHMSA ram target with my CZ 452 at 385 yards. Once I got the dope, it was actually easy to hit. Now, I was holding off, not dialing in elevation, as my scope (Nikon Monarch 2-7X32) has nowhere near enough adjustment to dial. There was a dark patch of grass above the target and to the windward side of the target that provided a perfect aiming point. I won't try to BS and say I had anything resembling a "group" on the target, but I went ten-for-ten shots on steel after I figured drop and drift (that took five shots). The ammo? Crap old Federal bulk from Wally World. 36 grain bullet at a skosh over 1200 fps. It only does about an inch and a half at 100 yards from my rifle, but it was consistent enough to "tink" the ram at 385. All my best 200+ yard shooting with rimfire has been with 36 or 40 grain bullets at high (not hyper) velocity.
 
22lr at 200yds

The 200yd groups that I posted in the 6x5 challenge were all fired using Lapua Center-X subsonic match ammo. But when I am plinking at clay bird pieces at 230yds I usually us CCI Mini Mags. They do not group as well but they have far less drop and make getting the rifle on tgt easier. I can usually place the last mil dot on the bottom of the rectical on the tgt and it will be close at that range with the HV ammo. With the subsonics, the POI is so far below the POA that I have to aim at a reference well above the tgt.

Irish
 
The last several years taking my rimfire pistols to long distance has been an absolute kick for me. Put the Nikon 3X AR optic on my little Ruger Mk III and often shoot it at longer distances. Surprising how close I can get even on 1st shots (as seen from the iron-sighted 500 yd. pistol shot above). I use a .1 BC at 1100ish, and it seems to be very close to true for the Win. Dynapoints I plink around with. One of the more fun threads here was the "250-Yd. 22 RF Coke Can Challenge" posted several years ago here. So I wanted to see how many shots it required before I was able to hit it. I was using a Kidd-barreled Ruger Charger/3-9X Rapid Reticle Optic on top. The reticle provided 20 MOA of compensation and the dope called for ~27, so I added 7 more of Up. There was no windage required. The 1st shot hit about 1/2 the coke can above so I pulled 2 MOA off the turret, and made the connection on shot #2. What a huge reward that was--

Now I'm shimming Burris Pos-Align rings with various thicknesses of credit card plastic to maximize turrets. The Horus Vision Predator scope on top of my Magnum Research Picuda can't even be beat for practical apps to whatever plinking range 140 MOA can take me. Long range 22 rimfire shooting may not be perfection for accuracy and precision but it sure is fun!
 
I can get repeatable hits at 200yds on a torso silhouette. I just have to aim about 8 feet high lol.
 
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