.22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

[JoeMartin]

Setting here thinking. Has the .22 Training Rifles now become a class of their own in which they still serve their intended purpose, but are now much more these days such as a main-stay competition rifle in the world of rimfire sports?

Perhaps its always been this way, but to me it seems as though they have become much more then a training rifle for many - which is good!

I'm thinking with competitions now being built around .22 training rifles that these rifles stand on their own merrit as bonified competition rifles in the world of rimfire in which a person these days may opt for what we call a training rifle as a competition rifle long before they ever buy (if they ever do) a high power center fire rifle.

Think about the .22 rimfire comps available to us... We have, Tactical Matches, Sporter Matches, Bench Rest Matches, 4 Position Matches (short, mid, and long range), Long Range 100 to 300 yard Matches, Silhouette & Gong Matches, Best Group Matches, Timed Matches, and I'm sure there are more matches being shot that I haven't even touched on.

All this leads me to believe that although we consider some .22's as Training Rifles (and they are being used in that capacity), I kind of think there are a lot more being used as pure competiton rifles to meet the needs of a rimfire match/competition more so then meeting the needs of a high power rifle competition.

Anyone else see a trend here like I do, or am I just reading something into this that really doesn't exist at all? Has the .22 Rimfire Rifles become a class of shooting sports of their own, more so then what they use to be?

Just wondering?

 

[kraigWY]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

I don't see a trend, I see a continuing program. Small Bore has been around a long time, NRA and ISU. These puppies arn't cheap. It was and still is a big college sport, as well as High School.

It's not a woose sport, those college kids can kick ass.

Good ISU rifles are rather expensive, $1500 and up. Not to mention the other equipment required to compete. This is the reason the CMP has their sporting rifle competitions in the CMP Games. Rules limit the rifles and equipment which allows anyone to compete regardless of financal standings. They're designed so anyone can dig out their rabit gun and compete on an even stage with everyone else.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

i like what kraig was eluding to - a continuing, and IMHO a growing trend. might i add that with the expense of centerfire ammo (even when reloading anymore) that the rimfire is becoming a more popular means of which to compete.

plus with the next to nothing recoil, it's also a way to get the whole family involved with a sport that realatively affordable activity and rewards performance. even if you can't perform near to the standards of others, at least it's a good time.

obviously there are .22 rifles that are pricey, no doubt about it, but at least an entry level quality rifle and ammo is within reach of most budgets. i also think that manufacturers are putting out a better selection of quality rimfires and ammo that allows folks to now rethink their positions on rimfires. they are seeing how well they now handle targets at short and long distance as compared to before, along with a greater selection of performance enhancing accessories available than before, can build a rifle to there liking and the way it "looks".

plus there are guys like us on this forum and other forums that wave the rimfire banner and provide a bit of "enlightenment".

also training rifles are now meeting such degrees of accurracy that they are in a sense competition ready by the time they are done, so why not show up at a competition and see how you do.

perhaps maybe also in this age of information, more people are finding out more types of competitions (and forming new ones) that they can attend. several years ago i did not know what smallbore silhoutte was or that it existed, now i'm running matches, and possibly going to run cowboy next year, and possibly the ruger challenge.

i'd like to see a sanctioned rimfire pistol competition that is like the IDPA - but in rimfire cartiridges. i think that would get a HUGE draw.

i wish some of those matches that joe mentioned had more of a presence in my area, unfortunately it is not the case. a regularly scheduled and sanctioned "tactical" type competition in my part of the country would be great.

 

[OFIS]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...a regularly scheduled and sanctioned "tactical" type competition in my part of the country would be great.

</div></div>

+1

 

[ba_50]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

A manufacturer will hopefully come out with a ready made tactical .22 with an adjustable comb, and match accuracy at a reasonable price. Left hand actions too.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

unfortunately, i can't see a manufacturer putting one together that would be "reasonable", say within $450.00 - 850.00 range (minus the optic), that incorporates the proven mechanical accuraccy enhancements desired (or at least leave the "room" to easily add or change as you go) the savage tr was a good attempt, but no real mechanical differences from a regular heavy barrel MKII.

if there was a "fantasy trainer / competition rifle" i'd go for something interesting to see is a M1 garand or M14 match made by springfield - in .22lr.

or a 40x styled setup - again trying to get it between 450.00 and 850.00 would be tough.

 

[ba_50]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

Top predator,

Well if they can't get something more reasonable they won't sell many either. I'd rather sell for less and sell volume.

Your average .22 rifle in the old days (1960's in my case) doesn't compete with the CZ's ( a few others) and trigger mods of today. So there has been some progress in that direction. Even sticking a match barrel on a CZ wouldn't cost that much. They do it for 10/22's, right?

The cost of firearms and equipment is hurting our sport.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

Maybe. Or maybe we're doing it ourselves by trying to make a training rifle into a work of art.

A trainer needs to be capable of reinforcing the skills that properly utilize the marksmanship basics. The whole point of the basics, IMHO, is that they should be perfected independent of any specific firearm features. The more one demands in terms of specific features, the more one departs from the generic nature of those basic skills.

I think that expending $1500 for a trainer is patently obscene. IMHO it depicts an ego massage that borders on self abuse.

People will always find ways to engage in conspicuous consumption; but personally, I seriously doubt that the better part of a $1500 trainer pricetag is accomplishing anything toward improving marksmanship skills.

I was looking at the Savage line yesterday, and noticed the Stevens 300. It's basically the same rifle as the older Savage MKII I use. I'm sure a lot of folks would consider such a rifle as being beneath their consideration, but for what I want out of a trainer it's both adequate and a real bargain to boot.

For a more tactically featured one, $315 List will buy a Savage MKII FV-SR. I read elsewhere that next year's models will include the same rifle with a synthetic TR stock. That should be fancy enough to satisfy most of us, but I'd still favor the Stevens 300. All business, no show.

I think the reason there's no market for the 'trainer special' is because the basic rifles serve the purpose well, and the conspicuous consumers haven't reached a number that justfies such a niche. Yet.

Greg

 

[SkaerE]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

"or a 40x styled setup - again trying to get it between 450.00 and 850.00 would be tough."

i've never understood why 40x's were so damn expensive. you can get a 308 Remmy 700 for $450 or so. why not a 22?

perhaps i'm missing something about the 40x but i thought it was a 700 action set up for 22lr.

 

[ba_50]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

Greg,

The Model 300 wouldn't do a lefty any good. I wouldn't have another lakefield style rifle, that even Savage couldn't fix 2x.

Just putting a match barrel on a factory CZ wouldn't add that much to the cost, or shouldn't. Right now I have a computer mouse pad on my stock and it still isn't high enough. Trying to lift my head from prone really bothers my neck.

I could live without an adjustable comb to keep the cost down. Accuracy and reliability are what count.

 

[Hink]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

In response to ba_50's comment about the cost of equipment hurting our sport, I agree. The local range has a 22 competition every month, but to even be competitive, the shooter needs to show with an Anschutz or equivalent, with glass to match. Shooting rest, front and rear bag, spotting scope.... Were talking several thousands of dollars just to shoot a 22 match.

In reference to that, I'd support a 'claim' type system of 22 rifle match. Run what you brung, but if you score in the top three, any of the other shooters can 'claim' your rifle for, say $500 with glass and accessories. That would serve to keep the cost of the rifles reasonable and encourage more people to just get out and shoot.

 

[OFIS]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SkaerE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"or a 40x styled setup - again trying to get it between 450.00 and 850.00 would be tough."

i've never understood why 40x's were so damn expensive. you can get a 308 Remmy 700 for $450 or so. why not a 22?

perhaps i'm missing something about the 40x but i thought it was a 700 action set up for 22lr. </div></div>

Yes, but no.

They look the same but the bolt/lugs are totally different as is the magazine area (there is none).

Basically, you can't tweak a 700 action to shoot rimfire, nor a 40xb to shoot centerfire.

Most of the value is tied up in them being antiques more than anything. Supply and demand. Stop making something for 30-40 years and it will be worth more money if people still want it.

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

I know that for me, I built up my "trainer" as just that. Then somewhere along the way, I started to really like shooting the .22 Then I realized that I enjoyed shooting the .22 at 100 just as much as the .308 at 400. Then I realized that I could shoot 150 rounds of match rimfire compared to 20 rounds of match .308!!!

I guess I'm hooked... and I got here because I wanted a "trainer."

 

[ggmanning]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

I put mine together to match my centerfire stuff. In that thought it needs to be very close to your centerfire rifles...stock configuration...trigger pull...optics reticle and controls. You can do this to varying degeress of course. I have a knock around 77/22 with a simple 4x scope for carrying everwhere and squirrels etc. It is fun to shoot and any shooting makes you better, but if I am working on reading wind and technique I shoot the "trainer" It may cost more to set one up to mimic your centerfire but will save you alot of money in the long run if you are a shooter....and make you better at the same time. It makes for cheap practice and I can shoot it for practice at the house without making the horses and cows have strokes.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

Please note that Savage produces two full sized and one youth sized MKII .22 rimfire Left hand rifles.

 

[usmcchet9296]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

2010 was the year of the tacticool assult rifle, look at Spkies, CCMG, Colt, S&W, and many others out there. Hopefully 2011 will be the year of the tacticool precision trianer. I would love a rimfire that mimics a fullsize rifle that doesnt cost as much as my full size rifle. Manners and now McMillian are making stocks for the popular CZ action. Rumor has it Bell and Carlson will be making stocks for the Savage and others but what would be nice would be to see a rifle/barrel combo something along the lines of the Remmington 40x. A full sized actio that would drop into a standard stock. I really think there is a market for a rifle like that.

 

[Delta 1]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

What does the CZ-452 trainer stock look like from Mc Millian ? Delta 1.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: .22 Training Rifles - A Class Of Their Own Now?

The CZ 'Trainer' stock almost looks like a safari stock, IMO. They handle well that's for sure.

http://tinyurl.com/27vjrpo