223, 5.56 or Wylde, Twist/Build Q

[Wildwillalaska]

So I want a dead nuts accurate bolt gun in 223/5.56 to compliment plinking with my AR's and more extended range fun on paper and/or varmints. I have a stainless Remington fluted 223 now thats set into a McMillan stock, but its a 1-12 twist. Does great with 45-50 grain, but falls off pretty quick the heavier you go--and rapidly. The barrel is also slightly lighter than the Sendero contour, more like a #4-ish.

I am thinking of jumping into the LRI group buy, and wanted a little direction. Thinking of going with a Bartlien blank, .224 5R x 26" Finished, .218/.224 Bore/Groove, 8 Twist - #13 Rem Varmint Barrel. This will make it a little heavier, but hopefully still allow me to use the present McMillan stock (little work on the barrel channel). Any contrary views or other suggestions I should consider here?

On chamber, I am really drawing a blank. I shoot very little 223 through the present rig since it only shoots very light bullets well. so I am typically running any sort of 223/5.56 through my AR's more than anything. That made me consider going with the 5.56, however I want this thing as absolutely accurate as physically possible--so should I consider 223 match? Or, is the 223 Wylde really the best of both possible choices?

Any constructive input appreciated and thanks in advance.

Will

 

[Sinus211]

I was under the impression that the Wylde chambering was designed to increase the accuracy on semi-auto 5.56 rifles. With the .223 being tighter than the Wylde I would expect accuracy to be better with the .223. Then again I am purely taking a straight out of my ass semi-educated guess on that.

 

[KUSA]

You want a match chamber in a bolt gun. I think one manufacturer makes a bolt gun in 5.56 but I wouldn't try to compete with it as its just not going to be as accurate.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2.

 

[patrol120]

Ackley. Once you try it, you will wonder you anything else was considered.

 

[RStewart]

Mine is a Bartlein 1:6.5 match chamber with 30" barrel. Just converted it to a mag fed in McMillan A5. 80 grain Sierra at 2962 fps.
Compete in FTR and Field Precision Rifle matches with it.

 

[JB02]

I was under the impression that the Wylde chambering was designed to increase the accuracy on semi-auto 5.56 rifles. With the .223 being tighter than the Wylde I would expect accuracy to be better with the .223. Then again I am purely taking a straight out of my ass semi-educated guess on that.

You're correct. Although you can chamber a bolt gun in 223 Wylde, I don't really see the point unless you envision pinking loads of cheap ass surplus 5.56 ammo ... might as well get a gas gun if that's what you want to do.

 

[kimberseries1]

Not to mention the 1-2 MOA that 5.56 ammo is going to yield past 100 yds.

Surplus 5.56 isn't exactly cheap anymore either....

 

[Wildwillalaska]

That's what I needed to know. And no, if only capable of 1+ MOA it won't last long around here. Accuracy is an absolute requirement or its a waste of money as i wont keep it. 223 match chamber appears the clear answer.

Thank y'all for the input.

 

[FCS]

Depends on what you are going to be shooting.

If you are planning on running 75 or 80 Amax / VLDs and tweak mag box or running an AICS mag, Wylde is a damn fine choice for chamber.

Lots of different 223 / 5.56 reamers out there, some with generous body and freebore dimensions and some pretty dang tight n short. What is primary bullet and end use? You want to run 62 or 75 Scirocco II for killing or 75-80 A-max for dual use? If you want to run the heavier match or hunting bullet then you really don't want a short lead, 223 Match chamber that is geared for a AR as it just hamstrings you in a bolt rifle.

Pick bullet then match up chamber you'll need to get desired performance. I personally find the Wylde to be a bit bigger in body then needed or desired.
Look at reamer print or send a dummy round to PTG, reamer is cheap to get rifle configured the way you want.

8 twist will stabilize pretty much any bullet in 223 short of the 90s.
7.7 won't hurt you any.
7 will work just fine but faster then you really need.
6.5 if you are shooting 90s
I'd go with an 8 or 7.7 twist.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

When I started contemplating, I was looking for something to shoot 69gr SMK-75/80 amax.

 

[JB02]

When I started contemplating, I was looking for something to shoot 69gr SMK-75/80 amax.

Horandy has temporarily suspended production on 75 and 80gr AMAXs; you'll only have the 75gr BTHP.

 

[BoilerUP]

There's still 80gr Amax out there to be had; the upside of it being less popular (no idea why) than its 75gr brother.

Also, +1 on the 223 Ackley. Yeah you gotta fireform, but those loads are just as accurate and you trim brass pretty much never.

 

[silver-duck]

I shoot a savage with a Shilen 8 Wylde barrel at 1000 yards; it shoots better than me. 80G SMK shoot well out to 1000Y.

 

[kraigWY]

Something to be said for super tight chambers. I have a Mann Accuracy device for 5.56. I would call the chamber a tight .223. You have to keep the bolt face and chamber extremely clean or you wont close the bolt.

I tried to chamber some new Winchester Brass, a little better then 1/3 of them wouldn't chamber until I ran them though a SB die.

That puppy is extremely accurate, but not good for much except testing ammo. I have a Rem 700 223 (1:12) that I thought shot good. But after getting its ammo to fit the Mann, accuracy improved tremendously. Same for my Wylde Chambered WOA service rifle ammo. I improved its shooting by making its ammo fit the Mann.

 

[2ndPanzer]

I have a bolt gun with a CLE match chamber. It's basically a 223 body with a little more throat for the bigger bullets. 24 in brux 1-8. I like the chamber and even run it on my NM AR15. In the bolt gun I run 75 VLD's jumping .035 with 25.0 H4895 for 3100 fps. Best group so far has been .16, average .23 range.

Oh and one more thing about the 90's, you do not have to have a 1-6.5. In an AR15 a 1-7 will do and they will stabilize in a 1-8 in a bolt action of pushed hard enough. A 1-7 or 1-7.7 in a bolt gun will stabilize the 90's just fine.

 

[Archer762]

There's still 80gr Amax out there to be had; the upside of it being less popular (no idea why) than its 75gr brother.

Also, +1 on the 223 Ackley. Yeah you gotta fireform, but those loads are just as accurate and you trim brass pretty much never.

The 80gr won't fit in a typical magazine and has to be single-fed.

And another +1 for .223 AI

 

[BoilerUP]

The 80gr won't fit in a typical magazine and has to be single-fed.

AR magazine, or bolt gun magazine?

The 80gr A-Max is about 0.051" longer than the 75 A-Max, and works GREAT in an AICS magazine.

Neither the 75 or 80 A-Max are AR mag friendly.

 

[Niles Coyote]

One thing to consider, if you have AR and want a bolt. In my experience loading for three 223 bolts and two AR’s, my AR’s have a larger headspace. I have to sort my brass or I risk shortening the brass life significantly. My next 223 bolt will be an AI and will make sorting a non-issue.

I run 80 Amax in a match chamber 223 bolt, oal is right around 2.5” and they feed great from AICS mags.

If you want to run a steady diet of 80’s go with a 7 to 7.5 twist so you can use all the different 80's in any climate.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Any other timeframe, I'd stay reticent about this and leave you to the advice already given.

But these days that advice carries a surcharge in the form of ammo/components availability. It assumes you will always be able to find exactly the ammo/components you prefer. I'm not at all certain that is, or ever will again be, the case. We may find ourselves being forced to make compromises.

With the 5.56 chamber, you can at least fire ammo/components using military or mil-spec-like cases without concerns about pressures and safety. Insisting on tighter neck chamberings may turn out to be a show-stopper when compatible cases are not available.

I have a Stag Model 6 Super Varminter with a 24" 1:8" (E.R. Shaw?) barrel chambered in 5.56. It is quite capable of F T/R match-competitive accuracy with decent ammo. My Mossberg MVP Predator has a 5.56 chamber and 1:9" twist and shoots 75gr PPU Match and 75gr HDY HPBT handloads surprisingly well for a sporting rifle with a light varmint weight barrel.

This leads me to consider that any anticipated accuracy handicap inherent in choosing a 5.56 chamber may not be as much a difficulty as most might expect, and may actually get 'lost in the background noise' of other unavoidable factors that can contribute to overall dispersion. The potential ability to reliably and safely digest any ammo could be a powerfully persuasive force in favor of a 5.56 chambering.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

To carry this a step further, I have just initiated a test employing steel cases from collet pulled-down TulAmmo 223 55gr FMJ bulk ammo, using quality match bullets and powder loads equivalent to my already developed match handloads; to see how such case/priming selection affects function and accuracy in my Stag, etc.

I would not feel as comfortable doing this test with tighter necked chambers.

This test is in line with other tests that attempt to substitute IMR-4064 for Varget, and various bullets of identical weights; as a potential hedge providing viable alternatives against potential supply shortages to come.

Greg

 

[DrDeath]

I think your pretty safe running 556 rounds thru a Remington 700 .223....

 

[kraigWY]

You are, that's all I used (m193) in the LE Sniper rifle I used.