.223 Caliber. Remington 700LTR or Tikka T3 V Stain
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Re: .223 Caliber. Remington 700LTR or Tikka T3 V Stain
Really, 1:8 twist and it's a done deal???
_______
Let's hear the counter argument:
700 LTR
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]1:9" twist is fine for most applications, but will depend on your use, of course. Do you need the extra bit of twist for the heaviest of bullets? Are you trying to shoot really long range? Because those 40Xs in .223 shoot horrible groups with their "slow" 1:14 twist rates...
[*]LTR has a fluted barrel, may not mean much to you, again depends on application, less weight and quicker cooling is valuable to some of us[*]Stock with proper bedding technique(aluminum block setup incorporated in HS Precision stock), vs. Tikkas weird reverse bedding setup that makes things more difficult/expensive (if you're not the one doing the work)[*]Tikka integral groove scope mount??? No thanks, I like my standard drilled & tapped Weaver bases, <span style="text-decoration: underline">time proven design</span>, I have no experience with the Tikka tip offs, but I have scopes on receiver grooves that slide on 22 and AIRGUN levels of recoil. As a mechanical engineer, I say receiver scope grooves are a poor design trait and inferior. Get Weaver bases on the Tikka if you decide to buy it, skip their groove mount.[*]While we're talking about standards, how about the huge industry aftermarket and resale value on the industry standard bolt action rifle, the Rem 700? Again, this benefit might be important to you, might not.[*]Remington made in America with profits AND wages staying here, vs. Tikka made in what, Finland? Again, may or may not mean anything to you. For red-blooded guys like me, it's a big deal. No qualms against Finland, especially not compared to other countries (*cough* Japan China German-war-era *cough*), but still, yall are just putting each other out of work long term.[/list]
Tikka T3
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*] 1:8" twist[*]Quick search online makes the Remington seem about $150 more expensive new, but your local market/deals/buying used/availability may vary. [/list]
Really, 1:8 twist and it's a done deal???
_______
Let's hear the counter argument:
700 LTR
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]1:9" twist is fine for most applications, but will depend on your use, of course. Do you need the extra bit of twist for the heaviest of bullets? Are you trying to shoot really long range? Because those 40Xs in .223 shoot horrible groups with their "slow" 1:14 twist rates...
Tikka T3
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*] 1:8" twist[*]Quick search online makes the Remington seem about $150 more expensive new, but your local market/deals/buying used/availability may vary. [/list]
Re: .223 Caliber. Remington 700LTR or Tikka T3 V Stain
they both shoot great. Tikka has a on most accurate rifles out of the box, the stock has better ergonomy than Remington's, much more smoother action, better trigger. What I do not like is plastic mag. The cons are- little availability of after market parts for tuning.
they both shoot great. Tikka has a on most accurate rifles out of the box, the stock has better ergonomy than Remington's, much more smoother action, better trigger. What I do not like is plastic mag. The cons are- little availability of after market parts for tuning.
Re: .223 Caliber. Remington 700LTR or Tikka T3 V Stain
I just picked up my LTR a couple of months ago, I love mine.
I would do it again in a heartbeat. Mine likes the 69 gr. and
75 gr. and that's what I was looking for. I thought about the
Tikka before I bought mine, and I feel like the Remington
is an all American Rifle. Plus if you want to do a little
something to it later down the road any good gunsmith can do a Remington, But it's what you really want. Good Luck!
I just picked up my LTR a couple of months ago, I love mine.
I would do it again in a heartbeat. Mine likes the 69 gr. and
75 gr. and that's what I was looking for. I thought about the
Tikka before I bought mine, and I feel like the Remington
is an all American Rifle. Plus if you want to do a little
something to it later down the road any good gunsmith can do a Remington, But it's what you really want. Good Luck!
Re: .223 Caliber. Remington 700LTR or Tikka T3 V Stain
The Tikka recoil lug system works great for a .223. No worries there. Everyone I know with a T3 in .223 owns a tackdriver. If you by a 30-06 or bigger, you'll want to make some mods.
Scope mounts? The top of the Tikka is drilled for bases. EGW makes a Pic rail and many different mfgrs. make weaver style mounts.
Made in USA? Sorry. Not what it used to be. Do you really think the current generation of entitled, spoiled, self-centered, lazy kids make the best stuff in the world? This will clearly get me flamed, but I think just because something says Made in USA on it means nothing. It is completely dependent upon the company, their standards and who they hire. Quality is no longer an intrinsic characteristic in our population and Remington does not have the most impressive record of consistent quality in their offerings.
Tikka is simply put, one of the most accurate, lightest, strongest, smoothest actions mass produced in the world today. The Tikkas are so straight from the factory that they literally do not require truing. Try that with a Remington.
Aftermarket support? What exactly is it that you would like to buy for a Tikka that is not available? The only glaring hole in aftermarket Tikka support at the moment that comes to my mind(and I know that at least two companies are working on a solution) is the lack of LA Magnum DBM. Bolt knobs, DBM, scope bases, stocks, barrels... what's missing?
I don't buy stuff because everybody else has one. I evaluate each purchase on its own merit and I own Tikkas because dollar for dollar they are the most accurate, highest quality rifle available.
John
The Tikka recoil lug system works great for a .223. No worries there. Everyone I know with a T3 in .223 owns a tackdriver. If you by a 30-06 or bigger, you'll want to make some mods.
Scope mounts? The top of the Tikka is drilled for bases. EGW makes a Pic rail and many different mfgrs. make weaver style mounts.
Made in USA? Sorry. Not what it used to be. Do you really think the current generation of entitled, spoiled, self-centered, lazy kids make the best stuff in the world? This will clearly get me flamed, but I think just because something says Made in USA on it means nothing. It is completely dependent upon the company, their standards and who they hire. Quality is no longer an intrinsic characteristic in our population and Remington does not have the most impressive record of consistent quality in their offerings.
Tikka is simply put, one of the most accurate, lightest, strongest, smoothest actions mass produced in the world today. The Tikkas are so straight from the factory that they literally do not require truing. Try that with a Remington.
Aftermarket support? What exactly is it that you would like to buy for a Tikka that is not available? The only glaring hole in aftermarket Tikka support at the moment that comes to my mind(and I know that at least two companies are working on a solution) is the lack of LA Magnum DBM. Bolt knobs, DBM, scope bases, stocks, barrels... what's missing?
I don't buy stuff because everybody else has one. I evaluate each purchase on its own merit and I own Tikkas because dollar for dollar they are the most accurate, highest quality rifle available.
John
Re: .223 Caliber. Remington 700LTR or Tikka T3 V Stain
I own several Rem's. They shoot ok. I own one Tikka(223). Off the used rack it out shoots every factory Rem I have ever owned except one LTR, and I have probably owned at least 6 Rem's in 223 from an SPS to a VSSF.
You are correct, there are a zillion aftermarket parts for the Rem.
For the Tikka there is a couple scope mount options, CDI DBM, Manners stocks, Oversized boltknobs(no machine work required) and Aluminum bolt shrouds. All of which I have on mine(waiting on the stock still).
I like the 3 lug bolt for the short bolt lift, smooth action, decent trigger that is easy to adjust.
Don't start the made in USA argument without adding it to every AI, TRG, S&B, NF, etc. thread here.
I look for made here all the time, but on the same note I want the best quality for my dollar.
ATB
I own several Rem's. They shoot ok. I own one Tikka(223). Off the used rack it out shoots every factory Rem I have ever owned except one LTR, and I have probably owned at least 6 Rem's in 223 from an SPS to a VSSF.
You are correct, there are a zillion aftermarket parts for the Rem.
For the Tikka there is a couple scope mount options, CDI DBM, Manners stocks, Oversized boltknobs(no machine work required) and Aluminum bolt shrouds. All of which I have on mine(waiting on the stock still).
I like the 3 lug bolt for the short bolt lift, smooth action, decent trigger that is easy to adjust.
Don't start the made in USA argument without adding it to every AI, TRG, S&B, NF, etc. thread here.
I look for made here all the time, but on the same note I want the best quality for my dollar.
ATB
Re: .223 Caliber. Remington 700LTR or Tikka T3 V Stain
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: css</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Don't start the made in USA argument without adding it to every AI, TRG, S&B, NF, etc. thread here.
I look for made here all the time, but on the same note I want the best quality for my dollar.
ATB </div></div>
What a stupid comment. Feel free to copy and paste it every time, I give you the privilege to quote me. Some of us are already thinking that on each of the those threads.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: css</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Don't start the made in USA argument without adding it to every AI, TRG, S&B, NF, etc. thread here.
I look for made here all the time, but on the same note I want the best quality for my dollar.
ATB </div></div>
What a stupid comment. Feel free to copy and paste it every time, I give you the privilege to quote me. Some of us are already thinking that on each of the those threads.
Re: .223 Caliber. Remington 700LTR or Tikka T3 V Stain
This is starting to get ridiculous. 3 people have now touted their or someone else's T3 and its incredible accuracy over the LTR, with nothing to substantiate their claims.
Qualitative design traits can be argued like we have so far, but precision cannot. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Rifle accuracy is heavily dependent on shooters ability, or usually lack of.</span>
Cut out your silly blanket statements, and post some links or pictures of STATISTICS. Let's see your targets, group sizes, and calipers; and we can start comparing numbers.
Otherwise your "Tikka is more accurate" argument is meaningless without any quantitative comparison.
What's that internet forum cliche I'm thinking of?, oh right, "Didn't happen without pictures." I'm not requiring pictures, but come on guys, at least throw out some numbers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ancient Mariner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tikka has a on most accurate rifles out of the box </div></div>
^ And your box stock rifle accuracy comparison results are where?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone I know with a T3 in .223 owns a tackdriver. </div></div>
^ Sigh, words like "tackdriver" are now just dumb cliches for people to overuse, and mean absolutely nothing. How precise is a tackdriver??? 0.5" @ 50 yds? 0.25" at 100? 1- perfectly circular hole laser groups at 300???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: css</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Off the used rack it out shoots every factory Rem I have ever owned except one LTR, and I have probably owned at least 6 Rem's in 223 from an SPS to a VSSF. </div></div>
^ Only worthwhile post regarding accuracy. An actual comparison of the two quantities in question, that CAN BE MEASURED and directly rated against each other. On the left a T3, on the right, 6 700s. Same shooter, different results. But it's all in the details. What were the numbers from those? Any groups saved from those shootings?
<span style="color: #FF0000">EDIT: I own neither of the rifles we're comparing in 223, otherwise I'd post my results. Reason I didn't mention precision earlier at all is because of the moot point it usually is to try and argue/compare it in threads like these. But hey, you guys are game, so let's see 'em.</span>
This is starting to get ridiculous. 3 people have now touted their or someone else's T3 and its incredible accuracy over the LTR, with nothing to substantiate their claims.
Qualitative design traits can be argued like we have so far, but precision cannot. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Rifle accuracy is heavily dependent on shooters ability, or usually lack of.</span>
Cut out your silly blanket statements, and post some links or pictures of STATISTICS. Let's see your targets, group sizes, and calipers; and we can start comparing numbers.
Otherwise your "Tikka is more accurate" argument is meaningless without any quantitative comparison.
What's that internet forum cliche I'm thinking of?, oh right, "Didn't happen without pictures." I'm not requiring pictures, but come on guys, at least throw out some numbers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ancient Mariner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tikka has a on most accurate rifles out of the box </div></div>
^ And your box stock rifle accuracy comparison results are where?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone I know with a T3 in .223 owns a tackdriver. </div></div>
^ Sigh, words like "tackdriver" are now just dumb cliches for people to overuse, and mean absolutely nothing. How precise is a tackdriver??? 0.5" @ 50 yds? 0.25" at 100? 1- perfectly circular hole laser groups at 300???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: css</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Off the used rack it out shoots every factory Rem I have ever owned except one LTR, and I have probably owned at least 6 Rem's in 223 from an SPS to a VSSF. </div></div>
^ Only worthwhile post regarding accuracy. An actual comparison of the two quantities in question, that CAN BE MEASURED and directly rated against each other. On the left a T3, on the right, 6 700s. Same shooter, different results. But it's all in the details. What were the numbers from those? Any groups saved from those shootings?
<span style="color: #FF0000">EDIT: I own neither of the rifles we're comparing in 223, otherwise I'd post my results. Reason I didn't mention precision earlier at all is because of the moot point it usually is to try and argue/compare it in threads like these. But hey, you guys are game, so let's see 'em.</span>
Re: .223 Caliber. Remington 700LTR or Tikka T3 V Stain
I like my Tikka, but the LTR is a great starting rifle, you might want to also consider the SPS Tactical, toss the stock and put your own stock on it. I would probably go Remington just becouse you can build on it from a sea of parts and options.
JamieD
______________________________
Jamie Dodson
814-262-7994
Wolf Precision
AI Stocks and Accessories
I like my Tikka, but the LTR is a great starting rifle, you might want to also consider the SPS Tactical, toss the stock and put your own stock on it. I would probably go Remington just becouse you can build on it from a sea of parts and options.
JamieD
______________________________
Jamie Dodson
814-262-7994
Wolf Precision
AI Stocks and Accessories
Re: .223 Caliber. Remington 700LTR or Tikka T3 V Stain
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really, 1:8 twist and it's a done deal???
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]1:9" twist is fine for most applications, but will depend on your use, of course. Do you need the extra bit of twist for the heaviest of bullets? Are you trying to shoot really long range? Because those 40Xs in .223 shoot horrible groups with their "slow" 1:14 twist rates...
<span style="color: #CC0000">Uhhm, ok, what kind of proof do you need that faster barrels stabilize heavier bullets like the 80, 90gr SMK's and Scenars better?</span>[*]LTR has a fluted barrel, may not mean much to you, again depends on application, less weight and quicker cooling is valuable to some of us <span style="color: #FF0000">The weight and cooling factors are negligible in this application</span>[*]Stock with proper bedding technique(aluminum block
setup incorporated in HS Precision stock), vs. Tikkas weird reverse bedding setup that makes things more difficult/expensive (if you're not the one doing the work)<span style="color: #FF0000">I have found that none of the Tikkas I have owned needed bedding to make any difference.</span>[*]Tikka integral groove scope mount??? No thanks, I like my standard drilled & tapped Weaver bases, <span style="text-decoration: underline">time proven design</span>, I have no experience with the Tikka tip offs, but I have scopes on receiver grooves that slide on 22 and AIRGUN levels of recoil. As a mechanical engineer, I say receiver scope grooves are a poor design trait and inferior. Get Weaver bases on the Tikka if you decide to buy it, skip their groove mount.<span style="color: #FF0000">Not sure this needs any rebuttal. Pretty sure most have advocated the use of a rail</span>[*]While we're talking about stand
ards, how about the huge industry aftermarket and resale value on the industry standard bolt action rifle, the Rem 700? Again, this benefit might be important to you, might not.
<span style="color: #FF0000">As has been mentioned, you can get everything necessary for a Tikka. Are you disputing this?</span>[*]Remington made in America with profits AND wages staying here, vs. Tikka made in what, Finland? Again, may or may not mean anything to you. For red-blooded guys like me, it's a big deal. No qualms against Finland, especially not compared to other countries (*cough* Japan China German-war-era *cough*), but still, yall are just putting each other out of work long term. <span style="color: #FF0000">Oh horsesh*t</span>[/list]
Tikka T3
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*] 1:8" twist[*]Quick search online makes the Remington seem about $150 more expensive new, but your local market/deals/buying used/availability may vary. [/list] </div></div>It's been my experience that Tikkas have great resale.
And not for nothing, but you're a little new here, what bonafides do you have to show that you shoot anything but pop cans at 20 yards with a slingshot?
Most engineers I know are generally worthless as a wet turd in the real world. No offense to you sensible ones.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really, 1:8 twist and it's a done deal???
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]1:9" twist is fine for most applications, but will depend on your use, of course. Do you need the extra bit of twist for the heaviest of bullets? Are you trying to shoot really long range? Because those 40Xs in .223 shoot horrible groups with their "slow" 1:14 twist rates...
setup incorporated in HS Precision stock), vs. Tikkas weird reverse bedding setup that makes things more difficult/expensive (if you're not the one doing the work)<span style="color: #FF0000">I have found that none of the Tikkas I have owned needed bedding to make any difference.</span>[*]Tikka integral groove scope mount??? No thanks, I like my standard drilled & tapped Weaver bases, <span style="text-decoration: underline">time proven design</span>, I have no experience with the Tikka tip offs, but I have scopes on receiver grooves that slide on 22 and AIRGUN levels of recoil. As a mechanical engineer, I say receiver scope grooves are a poor design trait and inferior. Get Weaver bases on the Tikka if you decide to buy it, skip their groove mount.<span style="color: #FF0000">Not sure this needs any rebuttal. Pretty sure most have advocated the use of a rail</span>[*]While we're talking about stand
ards, how about the huge industry aftermarket and resale value on the industry standard bolt action rifle, the Rem 700? Again, this benefit might be important to you, might not.
<span style="color: #FF0000">As has been mentioned, you can get everything necessary for a Tikka. Are you disputing this?</span>[*]Remington made in America with profits AND wages staying here, vs. Tikka made in what, Finland? Again, may or may not mean anything to you. For red-blooded guys like me, it's a big deal. No qualms against Finland, especially not compared to other countries (*cough* Japan China German-war-era *cough*), but still, yall are just putting each other out of work long term. <span style="color: #FF0000">Oh horsesh*t</span>[/list]
Tikka T3
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*] 1:8" twist[*]Quick search online makes the Remington seem about $150 more expensive new, but your local market/deals/buying used/availability may vary. [/list] </div></div>It's been my experience that Tikkas have great resale.
And not for nothing, but you're a little new here, what bonafides do you have to show that you shoot anything but pop cans at 20 yards with a slingshot?
Most engineers I know are generally worthless as a wet turd in the real world. No offense to you sensible ones.
Re: .223 Caliber. Remington 700LTR or Tikka T3 V Stain
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamieD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I would probably go Remington just becouse you can build on it from a sea of parts and options.
JamieD
</div></div>
But besides that?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamieD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I would probably go Remington just becouse you can build on it from a sea of parts and options.
JamieD
</div></div>
But besides that?
Re: .223 Caliber. Remington 700LTR or Tikka T3 V Stain
This thread has convinced me to buy a Tikka, if for no other reason than to increase peoples' blood pressure.
This thread has convinced me to buy a Tikka, if for no other reason than to increase peoples' blood pressure.
