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.223 lapua brass breaks in half

josephberry

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 21, 2009
497
1
54
N Georgia
lapuabreak.jpg

lapuabreak003.jpg


Max Varget load in Hogdon's manual was 26grains compressed.
This was 25.5.(slightly compressed) 69 grain MK, Wolf primers, and of course Lapua brass. Seemed a little hot, but not extreme. Bolt lifted fine and primers were flattened.What happened? I've blown primers before, but I've never seen this. I was also way out of the lands.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

How many loads has this brass seen?

I would check the chamber of the rifle with go/no go guages to be sure and then I would check the resized cases. It is possible you have either a long chamber or you are pushing the shoulder of the case too far. Either way the case simply stretched too much and broke.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

I have considered that my die is pushing the shoulder too far. I was going to try and use my old dies (full length) to shoot this barrel out. Then rebarrel to .223AI. I'll try and back it out some, and see if it makes a difference, or order a neck-only.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

Checked my f/l sizing die. Looks like that's it. Had no idea screwed all the way in that thing would push the shoulder that far back. Backed it out until the sized case is snug in the chamber. Now after I pull 40 rounds, how am I going to get the shoulders back out on the unfired brass?? Mild load of 4198?
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That has got to be some kind of material failure.....isn't the separation way to clean to be anything else??? </div></div>
don't quite understand the second part of your statement.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

Headspace is what guys f--k up most.

You can either neck up to 6mm,then back down to form a false shoulder or resize necks and seat into the lands to establish headspace.

Though I'd be kissing lands out of the gate,for several reasons.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

It most certainly does. Reloading 101 entails an initial headspace determination,with a given lot of brass,for a given rifle.

Less that determination and your propensity to learn nothing in 20yrs,you fucked up headspace via double-edged sword. Firstly,you bumped shoulders needlessly out of the gate and you frosted that cake by laying way off the lands,which is the ONLY way to reliably concoct incipient case failures in such short order.

Congratulations?

 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

jd,

Well, ignore him. Note number one. You've been ignoring other idiots for a lot less time.

OO,

If you really want folks to take you seriously; fill in your profile, say it once, and have something positive to say. Determining HS on cases is not something most folks have to do with standard die sets. The only company I've seen recommend it is Dillon, since their dies can do such a great job of compensating for various amounts of HS.

Have fun and be polite,
DocB
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nobody-is that YOU? </div></div>

Pretty sure it is.

Chris
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought folks were all worried about the profile,as opposed to the intel.(grin) </div></div>

You doing OK, you went AWOL for a while?

It's your syntax that gives you away, people are just wondering why you'd need to sockpuppet, I guess?

IMO, I think that's a structual failure and not a head space issue, but I'd want him to fire a few more rounds and see if any more split.

Anyhow...


Chris
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

Life is good,I keep pinching myself. I'm rather comfy being me and can't know any other way,nor am I looking.

Couple a slow learner with an FL sizing die and a gross misunderstanding of the basics and seperations form easily.

I've no doubt he could do it again(and again).
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Checked my f/l sizing die. Looks like that's it. Had no idea screwed all the way in that thing would push the shoulder that far back. Backed it out until the sized case is snug in the chamber. Now after I pull 40 rounds, how am I going to get the shoulders back out on the unfired brass?? Mild load of 4198? </div></div>

It would have to be very mild, like a starting load. Even with that, I would recommend that you inspect the case after firing, using a straightened out paperclip. See if you can feel a ring inside the case at that position. Also look closely at the case and see if you can detect a discolored line around the case at that same point. If you are uncertain, dump the brass; case seperation is no laughing matter. Live and learn.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc,

You are another very slow learner,if only obviously.



</div></div>

You are a jackass, this forum doesn't need or want people like you here.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

can't imagine the beatdowns this poor guy has endured his whole life, been made fun of,always left out, now he's getting even with the World behind his computer.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

There is something wrong as the seperation is not anywhere near the junction of the solid web and case walls .
That is the place they seperate from over stretching .
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

I've seen cases seperate in numerous manners and that is far from inordinate. I couldn't count the times someone who didn't want to listen,brought a rifle with a zooked case over to the house crying the blues.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

F---ed up headspace? Seems surely looks like it.

223AI on the initial fire forming phase. The headspace was f---ed on this rifle. When I pulled it out, I seriously thought it was a 9mm case I just pulled out of the rifle

DSC03165.jpg
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

I agree , I have never had a single case seperation in my entire 40 years of reloading. A few popped primers and a few missfires only.
I guess if its was a first shot seperation then the junction of the web is not going to be thined or weakened at all so it could seperate farther forward at thinner brass .
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You are a jackass, this forum doesn't need or want people like you here. </div></div>

Actually, if you pay attention you will note that most people are fond of the post artist formerly known as NOBODY. As he said earlier, take a listen, you will most definitely learn something. Crass he may be, unwanted he is not.

Josh
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

OO, lay out the procedure.... I am pretty new to reloading... 3-4rs or so,

on all new brass, I mic them out, resize, load a few dummies, and then start my load development.

if you have this happen to you for the first time... what made you think headspace..

I have always assumed that resize new brass to ensure you get the round to chamber nicely
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc,

You are another very slow learner,if only obviously.



</div></div>

You are a jackass, this forum doesn't need or want people like you here. </div></div>

Speak for yourself

 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can't imagine the beatdowns this poor guy has endured his whole life, been made fun of,always left out, now he's getting even with the World behind his computer. </div></div>

If you only knew
wink.gif
Laffin
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L.A. Lawman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OO, lay out the procedure.... I am pretty new to reloading... 3-4rs or so,

on all new brass, I mic them out, resize, load a few dummies, and then start my load development.

if you have this happen to you for the first time... what made you think headspace..

I have always assumed that resize new brass to ensure you get the round to chamber nicely
</div></div>

"Resize" is a very broad definition and a misnomer of sorts.

With virgin hulls,I want to size most of the neck and absolutely avoid kissing the shoulder in any way. Sizing the neck grants uniformity in neck tension,as well as irons out any/all irregularities suffered in shipment.

I never trim a case until it's been formed to it's chamber and only then after it has been sized in accordance to same. I'll deburr virgin casemouths internally,that is it.

Long before a primer,powder or propellant enters the equation,I'll confirm FF.

Virgin hulls like all others,get a square kiss to the lands,which both starts shit straight and is a palpable headspace control measure. Exceptions are in long throats who's COAL exceeds mag constraints and then I gun as long as I can,to afford FF.

I've yet to understand the fascination with folks screwing dies down until it kisses a shellholder or cams over,as a glossy eyed starting point. That is the shittiest thing you can do to a case out of the gate,which very much sets the tone for caselife and Precision.

Simply have a reason to move brass and never move any more than that which is requiste to lend FF harmony.Virgin hulls are notoriously undersized on the average and adding to that,will often cause immediate seperations.

Textbook case of headspace mismanagement here and those in the dark,should take note.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had no idea screwed all the way in that thing would push the shoulder that far back. </div></div>

This is what case micrometers are made to do. Remove all doubt about how the die is set up.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc,

You are another very slow learner,if only obviously.



</div></div>

You are a jackass, this forum doesn't need or want people like you here. </div></div>

Speak for yourself when you decide to say stupid shit.

Exactly what does this forum need?????? More people to ask which $100 scope to buy for their Wally World Special??? </div></div>

Definitely not more morons like you and your buddy.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can't imagine the beatdowns this poor guy has endured his whole life, been made fun of,always left out, now he's getting even with the World behind his computer. </div></div>

Exactly... what kind of a loser like OilyOwl has 192 posts in 2 days, get out and get a life.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

OO,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've yet to understand the fascination with folks screwing dies down until it kisses a shellholder or cams over,as a glossy eyed starting point. That is the shittiest thing you can do to a case out of the gate,which very much sets the tone for caselife and Precision.</div></div>

The only reason I can see to screw dies down to the shell holder would be in the case of Redding Dies.

They instruct you (with the match dies at least) to screw them down to the shell holder.

On the flip side, I did that with an RCBS die once and got 30 casings into it before I noticed I'd just destroyed 30 cases. (Fortunately they were many times fired PPU...)

Next question:

At what point should you consider neck turning your brass, and why?
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had no idea screwed all the way in that thing would push the shoulder that far back. </div></div>

This is what case micrometers are made to do. Remove all doubt about how the die is set up. </div></div>

Mitch,

I'm a touch Old School and somehat dubious of gadgetry on the average and like to FEEL things. I'd liken it akin to poking your foot into a sizer at the boot store,getting that reading and then waltzing out the door with a box stamped with that size,less an actual fitting. I'm a sucker for tactile feedback.

Doodads can be fun,but there's nothing that needs added to the fray,with the rifle,dies and brass in hand.

That as geared towards sizing and just as importantly seating.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can't imagine the beatdowns this poor guy has endured his whole life, been made fun of,always left out, now he's getting even with the World behind his computer. </div></div>

Exactly... what kind of a loser like OilyOwl has 192 posts in 2 days, get out and get a life. </div></div>

It's a very slippery slope,when you are forced to use yourself as a barometer of evaluation,in contrast to me. That'll get ugly fast.

Just sayin'.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GBMaryland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OO,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've yet to understand the fascination with folks screwing dies down until it kisses a shellholder or cams over,as a glossy eyed starting point. That is the shittiest thing you can do to a case out of the gate,which very much sets the tone for caselife and Precision.</div></div>

The only reason I can see to screw dies down to the shell holder would be in the case of Redding Dies.

They instruct you (with the match dies at least) to screw them down to the shell holder.

On the flip side, I did that with an RCBS die once and got 30 casings into it before I noticed I'd just destroyed 30 cases. (Fortunately they were many times fired PPU...)

Next question:

At what point should you consider neck turning your brass, and why? </div></div>


Hardly a secret that I'm a devout Redding Slut and dig their bushing dies especially. Now it isn't like you'll be struck by lightning,if/when a die kisses a shellholder,but you are literally playing with fire if you go there by default and less some confirmation(s). I tell everyone the same thing,as a default setting with a new sizer,kiss the shellholder and come off it 2 complete revolutions,then tune in increments from there. You'll never get smoked and you'll not beat those "odds".

Same goes the seater. With a virgin hull in the shellholder and the ram raised,run the sizer down until it kisses the casemouth,then back off 2 revolutions and set the lock ring. This will preclude a crimp,irregardless of trim length and is a nice buffer,that is typically forgiving. It's an inordinate circumstance,in which that buffer won't allow any/all COAL's to whistle through a given chambering. If you come up shy,tread lightly and keep the buffer in mind. Unwanton/unknowing crimps will affect both pressure and precision and should be avoided at all costs.

"Neck turning" has become another catchphrase of sorts,misunderstood by many. The only time turning is a mandate,is when neck clearance is an issue and such is requisite to allow a round to chamber(a non SAAMI tightneck chamber). Don't get caught up in the mindset that doing so less that mandate,will "enhance" accuracy. That's bullshit and all you will do is increase slop in the neck of the chamber. Start with good brass,good dies,common sense,a clue,forget turd polishing and never make a move unless you've reason too. Kiss lands and rock on.

I'm a pretty big fan of necking down for an OEM chamber and flying a false shoulder in conjunction,to establish that warm/fuzzy headspace FEEL.

That's where the goody is found and reliably.
 
Re: .223 lapua brass breaks in half

well if the poison pen sh t is done back to the problem at hand for this person..

Here is My exp with not having the resizing die set correctly..

http://www.emsales.org/whyheadspace.htm

Hope this helps these were NOT hot loads.. just bad die setting and yes it was a FL die...

You like I have had to lern this the hard way. for you was lots more costly with Lapua Brass.