223 Short Action Customs Reload Data

JSTARSZ

Lefty's Rule
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Feb 6, 2008
    1,990
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    Wolftown
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    Remington 700, Short Action Left hand.
    Fully trued action and bolt with Enhanced Accuracy Package
    Rem 700 surface ground recoil lug
    Ti Bolt fluting by Kampfeld Custom
    SAC's Generation 1 side bolt release
    SAC's match fire control assembly to replace J-lock
    Tactical bolt knob conversion
    Rem 700 trigger tuned to 2.5 lbs
    EGW 20 MOA base

    Bartlein M40, .224" bore, 1-8
    Chambered in .223 Rem with less than .0002" TIR on all barrel work
    Ti barrel fluting by Kampfeld Custom
    Finished at 18.5", threaded for AAC 51T Blackout

    Manners MCS-T2
    Full epoxy pillar bedding
    Mini Chassis system
    Flectar paint scheme

    When Mark sent me pictures of this I could not believe my eyes - that rifle is AWESOME. That far exceeds my expectations of a build by measures. And, I can say working with Mark on this project has been a joy. He is a great builder and a great guy too. He is always there to answer my questions and gives sage advice. If you are thinking of a build this is a great picture show of what he can do with a rifle.
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    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    Damn, thats badass!

    One question though, what's that screw on the side of the stock? Is it for the Mini Chassis?
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    Thats a really nice stick you got their and Mark is a great guy. He did a 223 awhile back for me also but a 12 twist to varmint hunt here where i live. An absolute hammer. What is being done on the enhanced accuracy package and the match fire control that you are talking about. Had my action worked over but none of that.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blklabs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice but he put the bolt on the wrong side of the gun! I do dig the spiral fluting, it always looks good.</div></div> That's what I say when I see a right handed rifle I like. So I decided to change that feeling by making a lefty tactical rifle for me
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wheres-Waldo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JS, how do you like the Mini-Chassis?</div></div> it is not in my hands yet but I will let you know how it is when I get take it to the range - SOON!!!
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dan Tucker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats a really nice stick you got their and Mark is a great guy. He did a 223 awhile back for me also but a 12 twist to varmint hunt here where i live. An absolute hammer. What is being done on the enhanced accuracy package and the match fire control that you are talking about. Had my action worked over but none of that.</div></div> honestly, Mark Gordon would have to give the low-down on the exact procedure that he does. If I tried to explain it I am sure I would only get 25% of it correct.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    I really like how he matched the fluting on the bolt to the same spiral as on the barrel. Thats one hell of a job on that rifle. How much did it damage your pocket book?
    shocked.gif
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MPB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really like how he matched the fluting on the bolt to the same spiral as on the barrel. Thats one hell of a job on that rifle. How much did it damage your pocket book?
    shocked.gif
    </div></div> the whole rifle or just the fluting? The fluting was sent off to Karl Kampfield Fluting
    to do the work. When Mark got it back from Karl he was saying how nice and perfect it looked. And, when I got the pics for the rifle this morning I saw what he was talking about.

    Well, if you are asking about the whole rifle - it is worth every bit of what I paid for it based upon the hours of labor that Mark put into it - Custom is Custom and you pay for it.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    Seriously, there's a lot of good looking rifles that get posted on the Hide, but yours is incredible. So long as it shoots bugholes, you've got a rifle to last you the rest of your life.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    That is just beautiful work. I'm certain that it shoots very well, as every rifle that Mark builds does. Congrats on your rifle, and enjoy it in good health.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 18Echo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought the manners mini chassis was so you wouldn't have to bed the action? </div></div>

    Yeah, I know. And I really don't dig the bolt/screw they use on the outside of the stock to hold the chasis as well. It's a cosmetic eye sore in my opinion.

    But I do Love everything else about your boom stick.
    grin.gif
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    I am willing to accept that screw as it doesn't change the overall look of the rifle. Bedding the chassis was an issue that Mark and I discussed. He said he will look it over to see if it was needed. I will have to ask him about what he decided to do.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am willing to accept that screw as it doesn't change the overall look of the rifle. Bedding the chassis was an issue that Mark and I discussed. He said he will look it over to see if it was needed. I will have to ask him about what he decided to do. </div></div>

    I'd be very interested to find out what he tells you. I thought about getting one of those in the future, but if it still has to be bedded it's not worth the money for me 'cuz I'm more of a BDL guy than a DBM guy. I suppose if you are gonna run mags it's not THAT much of a difference between getting that or another DBM system, they run pretty much about the same.

    On another note, Mark has all my stuff sitting in a box... I'm just waiting on my turn in line but I know it will be worth the wait.

    Great looking rifle, BTW. Have fun with it.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 18Echo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am willing to accept that screw as it doesn't change the overall look of the rifle. Bedding the chassis was an issue that Mark and I discussed. He said he will look it over to see if it was needed. I will have to ask him about what he decided to do. </div></div>

    I'd be very interested to find out what he tells you. I thought about getting one of those in the future, but if it still has to be bedded it's not worth the money for me 'cuz I'm more of a BDL guy than a DBM guy. I suppose if you are gonna run mags it's not THAT much of a difference between getting that or another DBM system, they run pretty much about the same.

    On another note, Mark has all my stuff sitting in a box... I'm just waiting on my turn in line but I know it will be worth the wait.

    Great looking rifle, BTW. Have fun with it. </div></div>

    With bedding a chassis system similar to the Mini Chassis and the AICS, everybody has their own opinion. My suggestions are based on facts that anybody with the correct tools can duplicate.

    The problem: The rear tang of the action is not supported. Since the tang eventually comes to a point, and the rear action screw is in the middle of the tang, that is where the majority of the torque is applied. That happens to be the area of the action that has no V-block support. So what happens is as your torque the action down to 65 in lbs, the tang will actually bend down and fit into the V-block. Put dial indicators on the rear tang while you tighten it down if you don't believe me.

    If you torque both screws down on just about any AICS or Mini Chassis and loosen the front action screw, the barrel will climb up anywhere from .025-.250" until its relatively stress free. So when you tighten down the front screw again, your putting a decent amount of stress on the action.

    Now, what kind of custom rifle shop would we be if we knew there was stress in the system and did nothing about it? What if I told a customer that I found a problem, but "dont worry, it probably wont matter anyway"?

    That is not how we do business. We report our honest findings to the customer, and let them make the decision. We will stand behind our experiences and never pass along second hand information as our own. We never try to "up sell" anything or any services.

    If I'm going to take 30 minutes to dial a barrel in to less than .0002 TIR, and check it after every step during chambering, or go above and beyond the "industry standard" for action truing by creating new and innovative techniques, then I will remove the stress out of the action with proper epoxy bedding.

    Some rifles will still shoot extremely well without bedding. But my job is not to gamble with your equipment. Its to do my best job on making sure you have the proper foundation for your shooting discipline.

    This is where we stand.

    Mark
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    Like I said, if I tried to explain it I would have may be gotten 25% correct and now that I have heard and seen Mark's response twice I may have actually only gotten 10% correct.
    smirk.gif
    And, that is why he is the builder and I am the shooter. Thanks Mark!
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    Shooters,

    I would just like to back step for a quick moment and explain a few things about the Mini Chassis system from Manners.

    Manners designed this system for work with just about every Remington Clone out there. Each action is different and if Tom dedicated a system just for one action he would have to make a million different Mini Chassis systems to fit each one. Heck if he made just one for a Remington we know not all would even fit the same way.

    The system works extremely well and I fit just about every one of my rifles. I also recommend it for most customers because it is a great foundation for bedding (which you know I do perfer) but if a customer wants to save money they can run the system without the bedding. Also, if they have multiple barreled actions and want to run one stock, it gives them that option.

    I wanted back up and let shooters know that I do recommend bedding for an absolute stress free fit, but if a customer opts out for bedding, then they still have a great system that will most likely shoot extremely well. Again, the choice always falls on the customers preference.

    Mark
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    I have been wanting to do a spiral twist on the bolt and barrel for a long time. Never had the money unfortunately. I guess i have no choice now, that thing is AMAZING.
    congrats on the new gun!
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TMcGinnis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been wanting to do a spiral twist on the bolt and barrel for a long time. Never had the money unfortunately. I guess i have no choice now, that thing is AMAZING.
    congrats on the new gun!</div></div> this is my first rifle with the twist. I decided to go all out on this rifle. I should be getting the rifle on June 8th so I know a trip to the range is in order for this weekend.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    So what round are you planning on using?
    And how far do plan on taking it out?

    Im still debating on a 223, I pretty much want the same setup as you. Just some different colors.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    223 is a heck of a lot less expensive to shoot than a 308. That means more time at the range. Within 500 yards, you have very good paper punching and varmint capability. There are those shooting 223's much farther. Only draw back is the lack of "umph" after 500 yards.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    I got the rifle last night from FEDEX. It is even better in person. I was very surprised at the rifle's weight. I was expecting a 13#'er but it weighed in at 10#'s even. It feels really balanced. I added the AAC M4/2000 to it along with a Leupold MK4 6.5 x 20 and it still is not that bad to carry. I plan on getting the rifle to the range this weekend for some breaking in. I only have Hornady 60 gr VMAX's at the moment as I am waiting on 77 SMK's for later testing.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kengel2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what round are you planning on using?
    And how far do plan on taking it out?

    Im still debating on a 223, I pretty much want the same setup as you. Just some different colors.</div></div>
    I plan on 75 AMAX and 77 Sierra Match Kings to do some testing with. I am going to take it to a range to shoot out to 600 yards with the new rifle as that is all I really every expect out of it. If I want to shoot longer I take the 308's. After talking to Mark I was originally going to go with a longer barrel but ended up at 18.5 and I think it is very balanced at that length. I also run an AAC/M4 2000 with it and it adds 5 inches to the barrel as it is.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rockfish Dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder: How long was the build time from shipping to recieving the gun back?</div></div> Five months from sending it in to it back at my door - I was impressed.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

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    I am working on some load developments for the rifle. I went out and found some Hornady 75 BTHP to work some up some loads. I started with 25 grains of Accurate Arms 2460 at 2.250 COAL and also some 60 GR VMAX's also at the same load point. I also just received some Redding Competition 223 dies that I am trying out on these loads. Nice dies I might add.

    I need to chrony them when I get a chance to see where I am. I went out to zero the optic and test the loads for function - I only took ten with me. They have some potential but I need to get a 223 Hornady case to use with my Overall Gauge to get to the lands. I also have some 77 SMK's on the way so I can start to test loading with them too.

    The trigger is awesome on the rifle and pulls smoothly at 2.5#'s. Shooting with the suppressor on was almost like shooting an air rifle as there was almost zero recoil. I took it off a couple of times just to feel the recoil
    grin.gif
    The suppressor shot about 2.5 MOA down from the original groupings but I need to do more testing to ensure it is repeatable.

    The Mini-Chassis is smooth and I had zero issues with its function and the ten round magazines fit snug into the magazine well. I find it very much like a Badger set-up as the release mechanism is very close to the same type. I am sure it is different inside but from a user point of view if you have a Badger set-up this will have a very familiar feeling to you. For the first day of shooting I have to say I love the rifle. Not that I just paid money for it but I like the ergonomics of the stock (but if I were to do it all over again I would have gotten the adjustable cheek riser) and the 18.5" barrel. It is very handy and maneuverable. As I go throughout the summer I will do some more accuracy testing with it and show some targets.

    One last item - the chamber is tight and was cut right. When you drop a round into the chamber the bolt just moves the round into the chamber and it fits snugly. There is a noticable difference when you close the bolt. It just has that feeling of snug.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LeviBerg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That looks great. Where did you happen to find the left-hand pack? I've been poking around online for a bit trying to find one.</div></div>
    Triad Stock Pack I got it from Triad Tactical who is also a Hide sponsor.
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    Im interested in seeing how this performs. Have you had a chance to shoot it yet? I have 223 action on order and was going to run a 24" barrel to shoot to 600, but if the 18" you have works well I might just go 20".
     
    Re: Short Action Customs - Does it Again!

    I was going to do a 20" but I decided to go 18". I have been working up loads for it. I am taking it out tomorrow with my new load and also going to chrony the load too.

    My load is 24.1 accurate arms 2460 at 2.75 Coal or 1.88 to the ogive.