223 Trainer OR 308 // Rifle Selection

[topslop1]

I'm the greatest challenge to get into the sport; I work 80hrs a week, travel for work, and am still budget conscious about what I'd like to spend on long range shooting.

Likely I will shoot once a month as time is a constraint.

I recently qualified at Fossil Pointe here in Decatur with an 18'' ar15 platform to shoot out to 500-600 yards (shooting with .223 they won't let you out to 800).

I see factory ammo at $.80 a round for 223, and anywhere from $2-$3 a round for 6.5 Creedmoor right now. Would a 223 bolt gun be a good rifle to learn the basics on and get out and do some shooting?

I don't have the time, space, or initial equipment to reload so I'm thinking .223 factory is the best case scenario for price.

Is there an argument to go to .308 factory and see ammo at only a small margin more? $1/round for 308 match? Searches showed $1.50+ that I saw.

223 or 308 & what's a build that'll out-shoot me but not a fortune?

 

[b6graham]

There isn't factory 223 thats gonna do what you want in a bolt gun. 77 at 2750 is SLOW. That bullet weight should be around 3000. And the lighter stuff probably would be the best past 300 or so

Will it work?? Yes. Will it be accurate? At 80 cents a round maybe but probably not. Look at berger 73/77 ammo at Mile High. Its $1.50 plus a round and Will def be accurate but still gonna be slow

What is your plan for a rifle build? Factory tikka? Custom off an origin?

 

[just browsing]

.223 is a more-than-capable cartridge with the proper chamber, bullet, and load combination. However, I’m not aware of any factory chambered rifles or factory ammunition - “match” or otherwise - that would maximize its capability (or even come close).

.308 receives its fair share of undeserving hate for sure, though as you said, there’s a pretty small difference in terms of overall cost/component availability when compared to 6mm or 6.5 Creed.

I would argue that with the limited amount of time you’ll have to shoot (1-2x per month), I could better justify the cost of Creed ammo vs. a .223 or .308. Either of the latter are generally considered cost effective through volume (shooting a lot), which does not sound like it will be much of an issue for you. Later on down the road, if/when you have more time, space, funds, etc., you’ll also be in a much better position to build on the equipment that you already have rather than needing to start over again. That would just be my recommendation.

All that said, a Tikka CTR in any of the aforementioned chambers will never be considered a “bad purchase.”

 

[308pirate]

I see factory ammo at $.80 a round for 223, and anywhere from $2-$3 a round for 6.5 Creedmoor right now. Would a 223 bolt gun be a good rifle to learn the basics on and get out and do some shooting?

I don't have the time, space, or initial equipment to reload so I'm thinking .223 factory is the best case scenario for price.

Is there an argument to go to .308 factory and see ammo at only a small margin more? $1/round for 308 match? Searches showed $1.50+ that I saw.

223 or 308 & what's a build that'll out-shoot me but not a fortune?

IMO your choices are between a 22LR precision rifle or a 308.

The 22LR will teach you way more than a 223 or 308 will.

The 308 will be the most expensive to shoot from your list of options, but it also opens the 800 yard range for you. Not that a 223 can't make it that far, but your club's fudd rules won't let it.

 

[Snuby642]

Get a 308 and shoot FGMM.
Spend money on a good scope.
Maybe add an EC tuner brake and be done with it.

You can then spend your limmited time off a happy man.

Should be gtg to 800 without problems.

Imho

 

[Snuby642]

BTW @topslop1 thanks for the mention of Fossil Pointe.

Will be headed there soon I think.
Edit: After further review -- NO FMJ? What the hell?

They want you to use hunting class bullets at 800

 

[b6graham]

BTW @topslop1 thanks for the mention of Fossil Pointe.

Will be headed there soon I think.
Edit: After further review -- NO FMJ? What the hell?

They want you to use hunting class bullets at 800

Good thing match bullets are hollow points not FMJ

 

[308pirate]

BTW @topslop1 thanks for the mention of Fossil Pointe.

Will be headed there soon I think.
Edit: After further review -- NO FMJ? What the hell?

They want you to use hunting class bullets at 800

You do realize that there are bullets other than "hunting class" that are not full metal jacket. Right?

Not every bullet that has no lead exposed at the tip is FMJ.

In any case their house, their rules.

 

[spife7980]

Edit: After further review -- NO FMJ? What the hell?

Im sure thats so you dont put pock marks in all of their steel.

 

[fdkay]

.223 wouldn't be a bad choice IF you handloaded.
The .308 is always a pretty solid choice, however, there is another.
6.5 grendel is absolutely capable for what you are doing. Howa makes a dandy bolt gun, ammo is a bit pricier than some of the .223, but right in line with some of the .308 stuff, and cheaper than some.

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[spartan67]

Listen to 308pirate....

You will learn tons about the fundamentals with a QUALITY rimfire.

Also,Check out the sticky about the fundamentals of marksmanship in the forum.

 

[Snuby642]

I've been to places the rso insisted lead had to bee seen. (Stupid)

Guess I could ask for a list of approved bullets so I have it in writing.

 

[celltech]

I shoot at Fossil Pointe and the RO's tend to be pretty chill. If you are hitting things and don't come off as a d-bag you can shoot that .223 past 600. When I go on weekdays most of the time I am self regulated anyway...nobody in sight.

 

[NewsShooter]

I like shooting my .223, it's also one of my most accurate rifles, and it has a factory savage barrel. It's a 30inch fclass barrel. . That being said, it hangs with the creedmoor out to 600 with black hills 77smk. It's also flatter than my .308 at 1K. They wind moves it more but that's the part you need to learn. Distance isn't that hard once you have your dope.

 

[phantomskittles]

I second the 22lr recommendation. I love my 223 but it is really handicapped if you are limited to factory ammo. 308 I would think would be a bit on the expensive side right now for a trainer. You can learn a lot with a 22 though especially to watch the wind constantly.

 

[powdahound76]

Yayaya.
but what do you know anyways @reubenski ?

Shot what, 50 rds this whole year?

Smart advice on .223 on origin.

Looking that way myself with switch barrel other “too limited” calibers.

 

[TheDave]

I shoot .223 (AR) and .308 (Savage 110) to 600 yards. If I could only keep one it would be the .223. It's significantly more pleasant to shoot and ammo is much cheaper. I have no problem going out to 600 yards with run of the mill 55 and 69 grain ammo.

I also have an insanely accurate rimfire, and there's no way I'd go that route versus .223 or .308. Perhaps it's the strong wind where I shoot, but I much prefer centerfire at longer ranges.

 

[diggler1833]

Damn, all those service rifle matches shooting to 1K with a 5.56, and to think we weren't doing it right.

I like the idea of a .22LR, but I'm also a huge proponent of the .223 trainer. The 22s are a ton of fun, and get you into practicing fundamentals without the distraction of recoil or report. That being said; I like the .223 because it gives just enough of those to work on fundamentals while still feeling the rifle move under recoil.

My .223 trainer has an adjustable stock that allows for anyone in the 5' - 6.5' range to get comfortable on it. I’ve been able to introduce three shooters into the enjoyment of hitting targets at decent range with that rifle.

Since the OP apparently has, or has access to an 18" AR though, I'd say he has the bases covered there and I'd probably go .22LR at this point.

 

[TimK]

I'm just kicking this around myself. I have a rack of .22's already, so I won't wade into that discussion. The only thing I have to add is a thought about recoil management. I started out many years ago with a .308 and learned recoil management with it. Like so many others, over time I went to 6.5 and then 6mm to reduce recoil. I think I'm finding that I'm getting lazy shooting a dasher in a 24# rifle. I shot a friend's .308 a while back and was embarrassed to find I was having trouble spotting impacts with it. I'd clearly started slacking on some fundamentals.

While a .223 trainer sounds like a lot of fun (or better yet a .223 AI), if I do build another rifle it may well be a .308 just so I can keep my shit tuned up tight.

If the goal is actually a trainer, not a primary rifle, and you rule out or add a .22, I'd consider a .308.

 

[81STFACP]

The 223 gas gun is capable at 1K with the right bullet. Guess what rifle took this wood home in 1997 shooting against Palma guns and Magnums?

 

[StLPro2A]

I'm the greatest challenge to get into the sport; I work 80hrs a week, travel for work, and am still budget conscious about what I'd like to spend on long range shooting.

Likely I will shoot once a month as time is a constraint.

I recently qualified at Fossil Pointe here in Decatur with an 18'' ar15 platform to shoot out to 500-600 yards (shooting with .223 they won't let you out to 800).

I see factory ammo at $.80 a round for 223, and anywhere from $2-$3 a round for 6.5 Creedmoor right now. Would a 223 bolt gun be a good rifle to learn the basics on and get out and do some shooting?

I don't have the time, space, or initial equipment to reload so I'm thinking .223 factory is the best case scenario for price.

Is there an argument to go to .308 factory and see ammo at only a small margin more? $1/round for 308 match? Searches showed $1.50+ that I saw.

223 or 308 & what's a build that'll out-shoot me but not a fortune?

Maybe consider a .22LR such as the Bergara B14R Trainer. Designed to take almost all Remington 700 triggers, stocks, accessories, etc. GREAT platform to learn long range techniques that transfer to centerfire while being very cost effective. You can learn ballistics (300yds is about like shooting 1000yds), position building, trigger control, recoil management.....well somewhat..... .....wind reading, etc. Wind separates the trigger pullers from the shooters. Can shoot NRL22 and National Rimfire League matches for competition. Can switch everything but action/barrel/mags over to centerfire later or interchangeably to shoot both rimfire and centerfire with same equipment expenditure.

 

[acudaowner]

you could do great with either 223 might be easier to find depending on what is available in your area it's definatly going to teach you more it's also harder to see hits and misses enjoy best of luck .

 

[epeet]

I have a .22LR precision rig, and a range with rimfire steel out to 200 or so. What I reach for the most often is my .223 bolt. I can shoot .55 gr FMJ pretty accurately out to 350 or so, 69 SMK a fair amount further. 22LR really needs thin steel to be responsive when you start getting out there because it carries so little energy. Right now it is pretty hard to get .22LR, at least in my AO. If you are going to shoot once a month, get one of the old 700 Police models in .223 or .308. I bet you could find one for $700 or less They have decent HS stocks, barrels on the shorter side, but should be great out to 500 or so. Other option is to get one of the base model Bergaras in .308 or 6.5 creed.

 

[jLorenzo]

I would go 223 for sure. A nice 22 is a must have also.