Suppressors .22LR Form 1 suppressor with massive POI shift and no accuracy

[drew_235]

I have a Tikka T1X in .22LR in a KRG Bravo stock and a Quietbore Ti form 1 can on the end. I put the whole thing together about a month ago but didn't do much more than plink a few times in the backyard before today. I went to the range this afternoon and setup on the 50 yard berm. My first few shots were ~6 inches high and ~6 inches to the right. After getting it somewhat adjusted, I noticed that my groups looked like this. That's about 7 moa. I was not impressed.

I took the can off, rezeroed (6 inches down and 6 inches to the left) and was able to do this, ~2 moa.
All shots are with CCI Standard Velocity, so not match, but not crap.

I put the can back on, confirmed that my groups went to hell again, and packed my bags and came home. I haven't taken the suppressor apart yet because I thought I would ask the brain trust here what to look for and I didn't want to destroy any evidence. I'm theorizing that my issues could be the following:
1) Threads on the barrel are not concentric with the bore (I don't want to believe this). I have no idea how to check whether this is the case.
2) Threads on the rear of the suppressor are not concentric. I also have no idea how to check this.
3) I'm getting a baffle strike due to my crappy basement drilling efforts. Should I look for clean spots on the baffles? Would a .22LR leave an impact witness mark on Ti? What should I be looking for?

I'm not an expert, but the holes in the first picture above all appear to be just as "round" as the holes in the 2nd target when I wasn't using the can.

Help, I'm all ears.

 

[DairyDictator]

If you're getting a baffle strike anywhere I would assume there would be shavings left in the can.

To check concentricity, the only way I can think of doing that is on a lathe with an indicator. Using a range rod you could get the bore to run true in the lathe then indicate off the shoulder of the muzzle to see if that's true. Then you could screw the can on and indicate off the rear of the cap to see if thats running true. If that's not running true then its either the cap or the muzzle thread. To narrow down which one is off the best way I can think of is to machine a couple test rods to thread on and indicate off of.

I would imagine the threads would have to be almost visibly off when screwing on the can in order to be that bad, but I've been wrong before.

Chances are you might be in for a trip to a good smith or machinist

First thing I would check for is shavings in the can or obvious signs of a strike. After that, could be any number of things especially if you didn't use a drill press or something to keep the baffles perpendicular to the bit.

 

[smokin.338]

Is everything seated correctly in the tube ?
Disassemble and check each baffle and front end cap carefully for nicks (strikes).
If all of the above looks good... then you may get an alignment rod to check concentricity to the bore.

A slight strike will cause what you see above, but not cause the round to key hole...

 

[slodsm]

Did you use the tool they sell to center drill it? Something is obviously off, I use the same suppressor on the same gun and it shoots a single hole.

I think you’ve got to be tagging a baffle ever so slightly. Mine moves exactly .3mil high and .1mil right every time I put it on So small shift and great shooting. Have you taken it apart?

 

[slodsm]

Also, do you have something that can function as an alignment rod you can run down the bore before tightening the endcaps all the way?

Id think it has to be an alignment issue, I literally have the same gun in the same chassis shooting the same can.

if you can’t come up with anything, I’m at work for two more weeks but when I get home I’d happily mail you my jig if you don’t have one, you can put your baffles in and check alignment that way and see if you missed center.

 

[padom]

I'm using the same.can as well and as you see by my targets and videos in my review of this Ti kit I'm shooting one hole @ 50yd and better than 0.75moa @100yd across a 6x5... you have something else going on.

You dont need to indicate on a lathe to check alignment. You need a suppressor alignment rod which I use to check every new barrel.when screwing on a can.

 

[drew_235]

Did you use the tool they sell to center drill it? Something is obviously off, I use the same suppressor on the same gun and it shoots a single hole.

I think you’ve got to be tagging a baffle ever so slightly. Mine moves exactly .3mil high and .1mil right every time I put it on So small shift and great shooting. Have you taken it apart?
View attachment 7196108

I didn't take it apart yet because I did not want to destroy any evidence before I got feedback about what to look for. I will tear it apart this evening.

 

[drew_235]

Here are the baffles, in order, bottom to top, from chamber to downrange.
I could not see any obvious lead debris, but my shoddy work is on full display. Ues, I did use the supplied drill jig, but I also broke 4 carbide bits getting the job done.

Should I get a drill press and redrill this set instead of using a vise and hand drill? Scrap these internals and get a new set? Can I reem out what I've got?

 

[padom]

That's just lead looking all weird around the holes. Grab a knife and scrape it off if you want to see.

 

[drew_235]

I think I found the problem....
When I was drilling my cups using the jig, my bits were getting dull and breaking. My vise was not full tightened down and was wobbling a bit. As they got dull, they were not able to get enough purchase to start a hole without wandering, and this is a result - an off-center hole.
Looks like it's time to invest in some new cups and try this again.

 

[larryh128]

Find someone with a lathe, it will make your life much easier. You shouldn't be breaking drill bits.

 

[smokin.338]

Looks like it's time to invest in some new cups and try this again.

Don't forget you need to destroy the previous one's... can't just have them setting around.

 

[Kansas_Born]

Don't forget you need to destroy the previous one's... can't just have them setting around.

Why not?

 

[drew_235]

Don't forget you need to destroy the previous one's... can't just have them setting around.

The tube is the registered part that cannot be replaced, the cups represent constructive intent....but if I only own a single tube and 2 sets of cups, how do I break a law? (I say this without a law degree and having not yet had a sip of coffee today)

 

[padom]

I think I found the problem....
When I was drilling my cups using the jig, my bits were getting dull and breaking. My vise was not full tightened down and was wobbling a bit. As they got dull, they were not able to get enough purchase to start a hole without wandering, and this is a result - an off-center hole.
Looks like it's time to invest in some new cups and try this again.

View attachment 7196849

How did your drill bit "walk" in a self centering alignment bushing to prevent this very issue? Regardless if the jig was loose in your vice, the drill but cant go anywhere other than straight down because of the self centering bushing....

Now if you didnt install the cup properly or tighten the jig bolts properly that's a whole different issue.

 

[FrankinND]

I have a Tikka T1X in .22LR in a KRG Bravo stock and a Quietbore Ti form 1 can on the end. I put the whole thing together about a month ago but didn't do much more than plink a few times in the backyard before today. I went to the range this afternoon and setup on the 50 yard berm. My first few shots were ~6 inches high and ~6 inches to the right. After getting it somewhat adjusted, I noticed that my groups looked like this. That's about 7 moa. I was not impressed.
View attachment 7196019


Why exactly are you drilling the cups?
I took the can off, rezeroed (6 inches down and 6 inches to the left) and was able to do this, ~2 moa.
All shots are with CCI Standard Velocity, so not match, but not crap.
View attachment 7196021


I put the can back on, confirmed that my groups went to hell again, and packed my bags and came home. I haven't taken the suppressor apart yet because I thought I would ask the brain trust here what to look for and I didn't want to destroy any evidence. I'm theorizing that my issues could be the following:
1) Threads on the barrel are not concentric with the bore (I don't want to believe this). I have no idea how to check whether this is the case.
2) Threads on the rear of the suppressor are not concentric. I also have no idea how to check this.
3) I'm getting a baffle strike due to my crappy basement drilling efforts. Should I look for clean spots on the baffles? Would a .22LR leave an impact witness mark on Ti? What should I be looking for?

I'm not an expert, but the holes in the first picture above all appear to be just as "round" as the holes in the 2nd target when I wasn't using the can.

Help, I'm all ears.

I have a Tikka T1X in .22LR in a KRG Bravo stock and a Quietbore Ti form 1 can on the end. I put the whole thing together about a month ago but didn't do much more than plink a few times in the backyard before today. I went to the range this afternoon and setup on the 50 yard berm. My first few shots were ~6 inches high and ~6 inches to the right. After getting it somewhat adjusted, I noticed that my groups looked like this. That's about 7 moa. I was not impressed.
View attachment 7196019
Why exactly do you drill your


I took the can off, rezeroed (6 inches down and 6 inches to the left) and was able to do this, ~2 moa.
All shots are with CCI Standard Velocity, so not match, but not crap.
View attachment 7196021


I put the can back on, confirmed that my groups went to hell again, and packed my bags and came home. I haven't taken the suppressor apart yet because I thought I would ask the brain trust here what to look for and I didn't want to destroy any evidence. I'm theorizing that my issues could be the following:
1) Threads on the barrel are not concentric with the bore (I don't want to believe this). I have no idea how to check whether this is the case.
2) Threads on the rear of the suppressor are not concentric. I also have no idea how to check this.
3) I'm getting a baffle strike due to my crappy basement drilling efforts. Should I look for clean spots on the baffles? Would a .22LR leave an impact witness mark on Ti? What should I be looking for?

I'm not an expert, but the holes in the first picture above all appear to be just as "round" as the holes in the 2nd target when I wasn't using the can.

Help, I'm all ears.

 

[drew_235]

How did your drill bit "walk" in a self centering alignment bushing to prevent this very issue? Regardless if the jig was loose in your vice, the drill but cant go anywhere other than straight down because of the self centering bushing....

Now if you didnt install the cup properly or tighten the jig bolts properly that's a whole different issue.

Great question. I am pretty sure I read some place on the interwebs that your drill bit can wander if the vise is not solidly mounted. This forces the bit to flex with every revolution and eventually snap. Honestly, I did a horrible job of drilling, and I own that. How else does that jig allow drill bits to snap in half? I don't know, but it happened multiple times to me.
I don't want you to think that I'm criticizing the quality of the drilling jig, but i struggled with it.

 

[FrankinND]

I have a Tikka T1X in .22LR in a KRG Bravo stock and a Quietbore Ti form 1 can on the end. I put the whole thing together about a month ago but didn't do much more than plink a few times in the backyard before today. I went to the range this afternoon and setup on the 50 yard berm. My first few shots were ~6 inches high and ~6 inches to the right. After getting it somewhat adjusted, I noticed that my groups looked like this. That's about 7 moa. I was not impressed.
View attachment 7196019

Why exactly are these not pre drilled? Don’t know anything about the 22 cans

I took the can off, rezeroed (6 inches down and 6 inches to the left) and was able to do this, ~2 moa.
All shots are with CCI Standard Velocity, so not match, but not crap.
View attachment 7196021


I put the can back on, confirmed that my groups went to hell again, and packed my bags and came home. I haven't taken the suppressor apart yet because I thought I would ask the brain trust here what to look for and I didn't want to destroy any evidence. I'm theorizing that my issues could be the following:
1) Threads on the barrel are not concentric with the bore (I don't want to believe this). I have no idea how to check whether this is the case.
2) Threads on the rear of the suppressor are not concentric. I also have no idea how to check this.
3) I'm getting a baffle strike due to my crappy basement drilling efforts. Should I look for clean spots on the baffles? Would a .22LR leave an impact witness mark on Ti? What should I be looking for?

I'm not an expert, but the holes in the first picture above all appear to be just as "round" as the holes in the 2nd target when I wasn't using the can.

Help, I'm all ears.

 

[squishee]

ATF’s Shocking Position on “Makers” of Silencers/Suppressors, Especially in Relation to Solvent Traps

As many of our readers are aware, Attorney Adam Kraut and I attended the NSSF’s Import/Export Conference on August 2-3, 2016, for which we blogged about many of the statements made by ATF (an…

blog.princelaw.com

"While Mr. Curtis did admit that to his knowledge ATF has not been asked to make a determination on a solvent trap silencer, he was explicitly clear that if a determination request was filed (or criminal charges brought against someone in such a situation), ATF would specifically find and contend that a “maker” of a silencer/suppressor may not repair/replace any part of the silencer/suppressor without first obtaining another approved Form 1. "

 

[6brshooter]

Yep, technically you made the first form1, but legally any repair has to be done by a sot. What you do is up to you, but dont announce it on a public forum.

 

[6brshooter]

Drill press, good bits at proper speed and oil. Heat is the enemy of cutting/drilling metal(ti). Shitty bits at wrong speed get hot and glaze, then the start breaking.

 

[drew_235]

ATF’s Shocking Position on “Makers” of Silencers/Suppressors, Especially in Relation to Solvent Traps

As many of our readers are aware, Attorney Adam Kraut and I attended the NSSF’s Import/Export Conference on August 2-3, 2016, for which we blogged about many of the statements made by ATF (an…

blog.princelaw.com

"While Mr. Curtis did admit that to his knowledge ATF has not been asked to make a determination on a solvent trap silencer, he was explicitly clear that if a determination request was filed (or criminal charges brought against someone in such a situation), ATF would specifically find and contend that a “maker” of a silencer/suppressor may not repair/replace any part of the silencer/suppressor without first obtaining another approved Form 1. "

Thank you, that is crystal clear.
I will start over from scratch.

 

[Juggerxxx]

It has to be what you have found in concerns to the non concentric holes. My quietbore suppressor and tikka T1X shoot decent and I am confident in the quietbore product.
Below is my first outing with the combo trying different ammo. All are 10 shot groups at 50 yards. Look at the two bottom middle groups. Same ammo but with the suppressor and without the suppressor and the big difference is the point of impact shift. Only that one group was without the suppressor and all other groups were shot with the suppressor.