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.22LR Target Shooting

Cartel

Private
Minuteman
Feb 28, 2011
13
0
34
Hello I am new to this forum and site. I am also new to rimfire target shooting. I want to buy an accurate .22lr and a good scope any sujestions and reasons why? Im looking to shoot 1/4 groups at 50 yards. I was looking at a Savage mako and a Mueller target scope.

Any advice is appressiated I dont want to break the bank either.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

You may need to step up a little more than a Savage/Mueller if you are looking for 1/4" groups at 50 yards. You need to be looking into Remington 40x, Anschutz, Sako... etc.

That is... if you want to do it consistently. Oh, and you have to be a good shot as well.
wink.gif
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cartel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im looking to shoot 1/4 groups at 50 yards. I was looking at a Savage mako and a Mueller target scope.</div></div>

I'm looking to win the powerball Wed night without buying a ticket------just about the same odds.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nottub hcraes eht esu ot woh nrael</div></div>
I like your style
wink.gif


Here's my addition:
Wir haben eine Suche, nicht nur jede Suche, eine Google-Suche, nur für diese Arten von Fragen, die seit über haben und fragte immer und immer wieder gemacht. Verwenden Sie es bitte.

P.S. - German, rough translation
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

The heavy barrel Savage MKII will be able to shoot 1/4" at 50 yds. The MKII is a proven rifle, and quality shooters can get 0.5 MOA groups surprisingly more often than once a blue moon. Even the cheapest .22 rifles sold new nowadays are often capable of sub-MOA groups, due to machining technology.

Muellers are excellent scopes, I have 3. I highly recommend your choice on the Target model (8-32x44).

Now, for <span style="text-decoration: underline">you</span> to bring it together, you need to:

Step 1 -
Buy MKII Mako rifle, Mueller Target scope, and base/rings (I recommend an airgun 1-piece mount/base, Leapers or UTG brand have been great for me). Seriously.

Step 2 -
Buy a few bricks (2000+ rounds) of cheap ammo (I recommend CCI Blazer, costs about $18 for 525 rounds).

Step 3 -
Go to the range with the whole package, and just shoot the rifle for fun a few times, don't even bother with the scope, just point it downrange and "shotgun" aim it. Try to hit empty shotgun hulls, and skip them along the ground, about 25 yds out.

Step 4 -
Mount the scope with rings/base. There's lots of people who think they know how to do it right and have goofy techniques, just do it yourself, it's straight forward, you'll learn by trial and understand things yourself better. Try to have the scope crosshairs RELATIVELY in a "+" shape, not an "X" shape, and make sure all the screws are as TIGHT as you can hand turn them, some people use a locking agent like Locktite to bind up the screw threads. The most important thing is the scope is set where you can put your head on the stock comfortably and see a clear circular outline, giving you a good eye relief.

Step 5 -
Shoot at a blank piece of paper, standard size, placed out at 25 yds. Don't mess with the scope turrets for at least 2 mags, just put rounds into that paper, getting used to the magnification, and adjust the side focus (knob on the left hand side of the scope) to where the image is clear at 25 yds. People talk about shooting rests, bipods, etc., don't worry about that unless you're really interested. Firm sandbags/gelbags (provided at lots of ranges), will serve you just fine.

Step 6 -
Put a fresh piece of paper out, and draw large "+" in the middle with a thick black marker. Now, shoot at this +, and shift the turrets knobs until the rounds get in the general center of the target. This may take over an hours worth of shooting to get a feel for the scope turrets, how much they adjust, and how to get your scope on target.

Step 7 -
Once you get rounds in the center area, put up this target at 25 yds, and start to shoot at each individual dot:

.22 Test Target

The target is made of .45 ACP cases, but the rifle will be perfectly capable of hitting these on the dot at 25 yds, despite what you will believe at this point. <span style="color: #3333FF">THIS IS THE LONGEST STEP, MAY BE FRUSTRATING, AND WILL DEVELOP YOUR FUNDAMENTAL BENCHREST SHOOTING SKILL.</span>

Step 8-
After probably 3 trips to the range, you'll be able to hit each .45 casing picture with cheap ammo consistently. Now, move the target out to 50 yards and do the same thing. Due to wind, ammo, etc, your groups will MORE than double, but keep at it. Again, this test is well within the capability of the rifle, it's all up to you. Just adjust the focus knob to get a clear picture at 50 yds, and keep shooting. POI change will require a few clicks adjustment on the vertical turret.

Step 9 -
After you can hit these targets at 50 yds, (about 1 MOA shots), go buy quality ammo. To step up at this point, and go sub MOA, you'll need match grade ammo, I recommend Eley, followed by Remington-Eley, followed by Federal Gold Medal, followed by Wolf/SK.

<span style="color: #FF0000">DO NOT BUY MATCH GRADE AMMO IN LITTLE 50/100-ROUND BOXES! Buy at least a brick (500 rounds). If you buy small amounts separately, you will have lot variances, age variances, etc, that will ruin the point of getting premium ammo. 50-boxes on the store shelf next to each other, same brand and line of stuff, WILL VARY ACCURACY WISE. Chances are ones been there for a year, one was dropped on the floor, etc. Buy in one go, and get 500 rounds of the same stuff.</span>

Step 10 -
Now, go back, clean the rifle out well. (22s need to be cleaned between ammo changes to season the barrel with the new lube, no joke). Then shoot the new ammo for a few mags, and figure out where your POI (point of impact) change is. It will change, mostly because match ammo is subsonic, and bulk rate stuff isn't. Readjust your scope, and go for it.

After maybe half a dozen days at the range and 2-3k rounds of ammo; the MKII Mako, Mueller, & Eley ammo will give you 1/4" groups at 50 yds, if you learned well.

If you see someone at the range with what looks to be a premium .22 setup (ie retro scope as long as the rifle barrel, held in what looks like coil springs), ask for pointers. If there's a club at the range, join.

<span style="color: #FF9900">To those of you who think this can't be done with the mentioned equipment, you need to learn how to shoot.
laugh.gif
Bench rest rimfire differs quite a bit from other disciplines of shooting.</span>
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

Yes, if you can't get your Savage MkII and Mueller scope to shoot 1/2 MOA consistently... then you suck.

Note... I own this setup. I must suck, cause I can't get mine to shoot 1/2 MOA consistently with any ammo.

eca4ecd4.jpg
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

the mkii and mueller is a good combination, even better is a CZ rifle, and don't underestimate a marlin 925.

you may need to try several ammos first, a good start would be with wolf ammo. extra match or match target.

using the search in my signature is a good start to get more info.

good advise above from KSwift.

here's a couple more things to check out.
22 scope+ mounts+rings threads

22 ammo threads

22 rifle accessories

New? - what to start with
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

I have a Savage Mark II TR with a Tasco 6-24x42mm and get .600 often at 100 yards with Wolf Match Target ammo. My trigger breaks at 2.75lbs. I use good bags on a solid rest.

The scope is mediocre but off the bench it works great and at 50 yards and 24x it's hard not to get 1/4" groups. Learn good trigger control and you'll do fine with a CZ or Savage or Winchester Wildcat. The Marlins are decent too.

Go with a high magnification scope and you can see the bullet impacts at 150 yards and won't need a spotting scope. BTW, the search function here is fair at best. Ask any question you want. No one is forced to read and reply to any post here.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: muchacho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Savage Mark II TR with a Tasco 6-24x42mm and get .600 often at 100 yards with Wolf Match Target ammo. My trigger breaks at 2.75lbs. I use good bags on a solid rest.

The scope is mediocre but off the bench it works great and at 50 yards and 24x it's hard not to get 1/4" groups. Learn good trigger control and you'll do fine with a CZ or Savage or Winchester Wildcat. The Marlins are decent too.

Go with a high magnification scope and you can see the bullet impacts at 150 yards and won't need a spotting scope. BTW, the search function here is fair at best. Ask any question you want. No one is forced to read and reply to any post here. </div></div>

If you are getting .6" groups at 100yards... <span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">regularly</span></span>, then you probably have the best rifle that has ever left the Savage factory.

That type of accuracy isn't even expected of Anschutz rifles with high end optics.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

I want to see the Savage 22lr rimfire that shoots half MOA. Just because a rifle pulls off a screamer group now and then, does not mean that is "what it shoots". This has been rehashed to death on this site. The Savage (rimfire) is probably a good bargain but it is not what some fanboys claim.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

The rifle is only 1/4 of the reason for the groups I get a more politically correct "occasionally". Ammo, weather and me are the other variables. Any make of rifle with a decent barrel capable of the same. Shoot 500 rounds a week and you can be good too. lol

Don't forget high mag on the scope.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

So all I have to do is shoot 500 rounds per week and I can turn my Savage into a 1/2 MOA gun? Nice.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

Buy the best you can, then practice, practice, practice.

When i bought my CZ a couple years ago, 1 MOA at 50 yards was a great group for me. 100 yards looked more like a pattern and 200 was more of a dream than a reality.

I've shot, shot, then shot some more, and have gotten very good up to 250 yards.

It's more you than the rifle.

Here's what was a bad shooting CZ will do now.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hU5LCwTuKNw&feature=player_profilepage"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hU5LCwTuKNw&feature=player_profilepage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=DkPibOUqd8g[/video]
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: muchacho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rifle is only 1/4 of the reason for the groups I get a more politically correct "occasionally". Ammo, weather and me are the other variables. Any make of rifle with a decent barrel capable of the same. Shoot 500 rounds a week and you can be good too. lol

Don't forget high mag on the scope.
</div></div>
lol yeah because shooting a rifle off of front and rear bags is very difficult. That there requires alot of focus and concentration, you know, because it's very unstable right?

*Sarcasm*
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

Just do whut I did.....Buy a savage .22lr and put SOME GOOD IRON SIGHTS ON IT!!! And just shoot it...alot...ive bin doing it for 4 years and have just recently earned my distinguished expert in .22lr junior 4 position, basicly just get a .22 and shoot it! get involved in a rifle program if you can!
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: good old lee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just do whut I did.....Buy a savage .22lr and put SOME GOOD IRON SIGHTS ON IT!!! And just shoot it...alot...ive bin doing it for 4 years and have just recently earned my distinguished expert in .22lr junior 4 position, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">basicly just get a .22 and shoot it! get involved in a rifle program if you can!</span></span> </div></div>

Now THAT is some good advice. Right on.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The heavy barrel Savage MKII will be able to shoot 1/4" at 50 yds. The MKII is a proven rifle, and quality shooters can get 0.5 MOA groups surprisingly more often than once a blue moon. Even the cheapest .22 rifles sold new nowadays are often capable of sub-MOA groups, due to machining technology.

Muellers are excellent scopes, I have 3. I highly recommend your choice on the Target model (8-32x44).

Now, for <span style="text-decoration: underline">you</span> to bring it together, you need to:

Step 1 -
Buy MKII Mako rifle, Mueller Target scope, and base/rings (I recommend an airgun 1-piece mount/base, Leapers or UTG brand have been great for me). Seriously.

Step 2 -
Buy a few bricks (2000+ rounds) of cheap ammo (I recommend CCI Blazer, costs about $18 for 525 rounds).

Step 3 -
Go to the range with the whole package, and just shoot the rifle for fun a few times, don't even bother with the scope, just point it downrange and "shotgun" aim it. Try to hit empty shotgun hulls, and skip them along the ground, about 25 yds out.

Step 4 -
Mount the scope with rings/base. There's lots of people who think they know how to do it right and have goofy techniques, just do it yourself, it's straight forward, you'll learn by trial and understand things yourself better. Try to have the scope crosshairs RELATIVELY in a "+" shape, not an "X" shape, and make sure all the screws are as TIGHT as you can hand turn them, some people use a locking agent like Locktite to bind up the screw threads. The most important thing is the scope is set where you can put your head on the stock comfortably and see a clear circular outline, giving you a good eye relief.

Step 5 -
Shoot at a blank piece of paper, standard size, placed out at 25 yds. Don't mess with the scope turrets for at least 2 mags, just put rounds into that paper, getting used to the magnification, and adjust the side focus (knob on the left hand side of the scope) to where the image is clear at 25 yds. People talk about shooting rests, bipods, etc., don't worry about that unless you're really interested. Firm sandbags/gelbags (provided at lots of ranges), will serve you just fine.

Step 6 -
Put a fresh piece of paper out, and draw large "+" in the middle with a thick black marker. Now, shoot at this +, and shift the turrets knobs until the rounds get in the general center of the target. This may take over an hours worth of shooting to get a feel for the scope turrets, how much they adjust, and how to get your scope on target.

Step 7 -
Once you get rounds in the center area, put up this target at 25 yds, and start to shoot at each individual dot:

.22 Test Target

The target is made of .45 ACP cases, but the rifle will be perfectly capable of hitting these on the dot at 25 yds, despite what you will believe at this point. <span style="color: #3333FF">THIS IS THE LONGEST STEP, MAY BE FRUSTRATING, AND WILL DEVELOP YOUR FUNDAMENTAL BENCHREST SHOOTING SKILL.</span>

Step 8-
After probably 3 trips to the range, you'll be able to hit each .45 casing picture with cheap ammo consistently. Now, move the target out to 50 yards and do the same thing. Due to wind, ammo, etc, your groups will MORE than double, but keep at it. Again, this test is well within the capability of the rifle, it's all up to you. Just adjust the focus knob to get a clear picture at 50 yds, and keep shooting. POI change will require a few clicks adjustment on the vertical turret.

Step 9 -
After you can hit these targets at 50 yds, (about 1 MOA shots), go buy quality ammo. To step up at this point, and go sub MOA, you'll need match grade ammo, I recommend Eley, followed by Remington-Eley, followed by Federal Gold Medal, followed by Wolf/SK.

<span style="color: #FF0000">DO NOT BUY MATCH GRADE AMMO IN LITTLE 50/100-ROUND BOXES! Buy at least a brick (500 rounds). If you buy small amounts separately, you will have lot variances, age variances, etc, that will ruin the point of getting premium ammo. 50-boxes on the store shelf next to each other, same brand and line of stuff, WILL VARY ACCURACY WISE. Chances are ones been there for a year, one was dropped on the floor, etc. Buy in one go, and get 500 rounds of the same stuff.</span>

Step 10 -
Now, go back, clean the rifle out well. (22s need to be cleaned between ammo changes to season the barrel with the new lube, no joke). Then shoot the new ammo for a few mags, and figure out where your POI (point of impact) change is. It will change, mostly because match ammo is subsonic, and bulk rate stuff isn't. Readjust your scope, and go for it.

After maybe half a dozen days at the range and 2-3k rounds of ammo; the MKII Mako, Mueller, & Eley ammo will give you 1/4" groups at 50 yds, if you learned well.

If you see someone at the range with what looks to be a premium .22 setup (ie retro scope as long as the rifle barrel, held in what looks like coil springs), ask for pointers. If there's a club at the range, join.

<span style="color: #FF9900">To those of you who think this can't be done with the mentioned equipment, you need to learn how to shoot.
laugh.gif
Bench rest rimfire differs quite a bit from other disciplines of shooting.</span> </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: muchacho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Savage Mark II TR with a Tasco 6-24x42mm and get .600 often at 100 yards with Wolf Match Target ammo. My trigger breaks at 2.75lbs. I use good bags on a solid rest.

The scope is mediocre but off the bench it works great and at 50 yards and 24x it's hard not to get 1/4" groups. Learn good trigger control and you'll do fine with a CZ or Savage or Winchester Wildcat. The Marlins are decent too.</div></div>

Do you guys hang out with Savage110 by any chance ? LOL
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

His screen name is AI AE now but I've been trying to get to the range with him lately and it's just not worked out quite yet...

Why, is there something wrong with Felipe? He seems really cool and down to earth from my conversations with him.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

Where can I buy one of these consistent .250" @ 50y Savages? I have a 40XB, 541C, Annie 64 and a 10/22 for trade, they must all be defective, as none of them are up to the task.

[sarcasm off]
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

You'll have to do some post searching
smile.gif


Everybody deserves a second chance I suppose.God knows I'm not perfect and have said things I shouldn't have but for some reason I couldn't resist this time.

I'll just say it like this.The best rimfire benchrest shooters in the world with the most expensive equipment and ammo wouldn't consider 1/4" groups at 50Y on average an easy feat.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll have to do some post searching
smile.gif


Everybody deserves a second chance I suppose.God knows I'm not perfect and have said things I shouldn't have but for some reason I couldn't resist this time.

I'll just say it like this.The best rimfire benchrest shooters in the world with the most expensive equipment and ammo wouldn't consider 1/4" groups at 50Y on average an easy feat.



</div></div>
Not many well seasoned shooters can resist such a target rich environment Steve. I know more than a handful of former Savage rimfire owners who found out the error in listning to some of the hype that recurs on a regular basis in the rimfire section. The Savage rimfire cannot be compared to the centerfire rifles, they are different animals altogether. They are more accurate than I could have ever hoped for when I first started roaming the woods with a rimfire at 12yrs old, but compared to the likes of CZ, Anschutz,Remington,Winchester,Kimber etc, they fall far down the list. If you think a Savage (rimfire) will suit your needs then by all means buy one. If you want a 22 rimfire that shoots 1/2MOA then save your money. You can take anything I say with a grain of salt because I don't own a Savage. If I didn't absolutely suck at shooting I wouldn't need to spend all that money and could take my Savage to every BR match from here to California and clean house.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

I guess I just need to up my shooting from 400 to 500 rounds a weekend. Hell, whats 2 more boxes of Eley Match anyway?

Edit... wait... on top of th 400 rimfire I also shoot 100 centerfire. 400 + 100 = 500 - Wow, I guess I just suck.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

Alright, for people who are calling out the claim that a heavy barrel MKII can't hit half MOA, let's squash the internet board arguing with some claims from <span style="text-decoration: underline">industry subject matter experts</span>.

For ease of calculations, I'm going to approximate 1" at 100yds as 1 MOA, not 1.0whatever the exact value is. This diff is fairly negligible.

No particular order:

<span style="color: #FF0000">0.4 MOA</span> Chuck Hawks says his MK II BV had a factory target of 0.4" at 100 yds (with Fed Gold Medal).
http://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_markII-BV_rifle.htm

<span style="color: #FF0000">0.4 MOA Savage factory test shooter
025 MOA from Chuck Hawks at 102 yds!!!</span>
Chuck Hawks then goes and gets a MK II BSEV, with another .4 inch factory target at 100yds. But here's his claim, quoted directly from his website:
<span style="color: #3366FF">"It threw shots into a nickel-sized hole at forty yards with most everything I fed it and in a later range session shot repetitive sub-quarter inch groups. This was with Lapua 36 grain HP ammunition at a laser-verified 102 yards."</span>
http://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_bsev.htm

<span style="color: #FF0000">0.38 MOA best group</span>
Gun Test for Outdoor life says this about their MK II (using Remington Eley and CCI Green Tag ammo):
<span style="color: #3366FF">"After the gun was sighted-in at 50 yards in a test tunnel, the first four 5-shot groups measured .191, .202, .263 and .260 inches, for an average of .229 inches."</span>
http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/gear/shooting/2008/06/gun-test-08?photo=6

<span style="color: #FF0000">0.625 MOA</span> Jeff Quinn off of Gunblast says this about his MK II BV at 50 yds: <span style="color: #3333FF">"The worst group of the day measured just seven-eighths of an inch. That was the worst. The best measured just five-sixteenths of an inch, which was repeatable with that ammo all day long. "</span> If he got 5/16ths all day long, it's not much of a stretch to say that occassionally he got a 4/16th group in there once in a while, but we won't fluff the claim, 5/16ths (with Win-Olin ammo) it is.
http://www.gunblast.com/Savage-MarkIIBV22.htm

<span style="color: #FF0000">0.5MOA at 50 yds</span>
But how about a little home turf representation, here's <span style="color: #009900">VYD on SNIPERS HIDE</span> with a 0.25" at 50 yds (with premium Eley/Fed Gold Medal/Wolf ammo) claim, with pictures:
<span style="color: #3366FF">"5 shots, yes, it is usually between .25" to .37" at 50 yards if I do my part and if the weather permits.
"</span>
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2140385

Interesting, how none of the great-shooting skeptics with their 40xs and Annies in this thread went and challenged his integrity...

So for you guys throwing the BS flag, you need to LEARN HOW TO SHOOT YOUR 40Xs AND ANNIEs, because you bought more gun than you can use. No point in upgrading your gear while it can still outshoot you.

Granted, these shooters are good, much better than average, and the factory 0.4 MOA targets were probably shot in a low pressure wind tunnel with a vise and a 36X Leupold, but still:

<span style="font-size: 14pt">Does anyone feel this doesn't solidify the claim that heavy barrel Savage MK II's are capable of 0.5 MOA groups?</span>
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

1,2,and 3 all exacmples of gun writers gushing sycophantically about guns they did not have to buy and were not pulled off the shelf at Dicks sporting goods.
VYD? You are using his groups as a reference? Those are 3 shot groups. I have never seen any proof that he has a gun that will consistently shoot even 1 MOA let alone 1/2MOA. He was invited to a very serious ,very dificult tactical match and offered a not insignificant amount of money to win the match with that hot dog Savage. He crawfished on the excuse that he did not understand the particulars of the wager. I will offer anyone a crisp clean Ben Franklin to come to our TSC match and win the match with a bone stock Savage. If you want to cry foul because you will be shooting against CZs, Anschutz, 40x's,Martinis, and a slew of other "over priced" match rifles, then we can assume you are crying uncle. <span style="color: #CC0000">No One Has Said A Savage 22lr Rimfire Can't Shoot An Occasional 1/2MOA Group. </span> To suggest anyone that spends more money, when they can own a Savage cheaper, can't shoot is the height of jackassery. If Savage rimfires were that good everyone in the rimfire BR game would be shooting them. Maybe they are just a bunch of morons that like to spend money. I have said all I will say on this. If you want to tell me I can't shoot come to Conover NC on March 12th and SHOW me.....with a stock Savage.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

I don't shoot in a tunnel using a machine to pull the trigger with the best of the best lots of ammo. I shoot in the real world. As for .25 MOA at 50; I don't think that should be a problem and the findings don't surprise me one bit. I actually would guess that the 50 yard targets were NOT shot in a tunnel or in a vise. Hell, my 10/22 can do that.

If learning to shoot my 40X means a vise, a wind tunnel and $30/box ammo... I'll pass and choose NOT to learn how. BUT, the real test is... can you do it with yours?

SO... step on up. Come on out. We'll leave the light on for ya...

~ Rico

PS... quick edit... I am NOT saying a Savage or the CZ is a POS. I actually think they are fantastic at their price point. I'll actually end up picking up a CZ just for the heck of it since it does do so well for those cases when I don't want to lug the 20# beast out.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1,2,and 3 all exacmples of gun writers gushing sycophantically about guns they did not have to buy and were not pulled off the shelf at Dicks sporting goods.
VYD? You are using his groups as a reference? Those are 3 shot groups. I have never seen any proof that he has a gun that will consistently shoot even 1 MOA let alone 1/2MOA. He was invited to a very serious ,very dificult tactical match and offered a not insignificant amount of money to win the match with that hot dog Savage. He crawfished on the excuse that he did not understand the particulars of the wager. I will offer anyone a crisp clean Ben Franklin to come to our TSC match and win the match with a bone stock Savage. If you want to cry foul because you will be shooting against CZs, Anschutz, 40x's,Martinis, and a slew of other "over priced" match rifles, then we can assume you are crying uncle. <span style="color: #CC0000">No One Has Said A Savage 22lr Rimfire Can't Shoot An Occasional 1/2MOA Group. </span> To suggest anyone that spends more money, when they can own a Savage cheaper, can't shoot is the height of jackassery. If Savage rimfires were that good everyone in the rimfire BR game would be shooting them. Maybe they are just a bunch of morons that like to spend money. I have said all I will say on this. If you want to tell me I can't shoot come to Conover NC on March 12th and SHOW me.....with a stock Savage. </div></div>

Perfectly stated !!!
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1,2,and 3 all exacmples of gun writers gushing sycophantically about guns they did not have to buy and were not pulled off the shelf at Dicks sporting goods.
</div></div>
How do you know this. Were you there or is this more internet BS being piled on the heap?
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: muchacho</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1,2,and 3 all exacmples of gun writers gushing sycophantically about guns they did not have to buy and were not pulled off the shelf at Dicks sporting goods.
</div></div>
How do you know this. Were you there or is this more internet BS being piled on the heap? </div></div>

Yes I was there at every test. I told you I have said all I will say on this. To the true fanboys all I say only amounts to static. It is like teaching a pig to sing, you accomplish nothing and annoy the pig.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

I know one thing... my Savages have never come with a factory test target. Not one of them. Nor have I ever heard of a single Savage purchased in a store coming with a factory test target.


Armorpl8chikn said it best. Really not much else needs to be said after that.

Savages are not bad rifles... they just aren't as good as some people make them out to be. That mentality isn't limited to the Savage brand either.

Kswift, enjoy your 1/2 MOA Savage, but don't try making it out like you can expect 1/2 MOA out of every Savage off the line.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

The Savage Mark 11 is an amazing gun. But why compare it to guns costing 3 to 4 times the price? For the money, out of the box, there are few if any guns that can match it.

I was shooting this morning at 100 yards with heavy winds. Shot some tight groups, but also had some spread due to many factors including wind.

There are more variables when shooting the .22LR or at least they seem to have a bigger effect(not so much at 50yds). The gun is capable of sub minute, but to do it consistently would require ideal conditions and an exceptional shooter.

If your budget allows buy a higher priced match gun, or just buy the Savage and not put such high demands on it. If you expect to shoot all your groups 1/4 inch, I am guessing that you might get disappointed.

I will be shooting at 200 yards tomorrow. Have not shot it at 50 yards in about a year, can't remember my group sizes at 50yds but they were tight.

It's about having fun, and also discipline. Shooting a .22LR is a challenge but it is also inexpensive and fun. I recommend that you don't place such high demands on your gun, unless you purchase an expensive match gun. But all in all, I am happy with all my Savage rifles. They are super values for the money.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

If you really want a gun that will shoot 1/4 inch groups at 50 yards PM me. I will fix you up. I will also refund your money if it wont
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: muchacho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Savage Mark II TR with a Tasco 6-24x42mm and get .600 often at 100 yards with Wolf Match Target ammo. My trigger breaks at 2.75lbs. I use good bags on a solid rest.

The scope is mediocre but off the bench it works great and at 50 yards and 24x it's hard not to get 1/4" groups. Learn good trigger control and you'll do fine with a CZ or Savage or Winchester Wildcat. The Marlins are decent too.

Go with a high magnification scope and you can see the bullet impacts at 150 yards and won't need a spotting scope. BTW, the search function here is fair at best. Ask any question you want. No one is forced to read and reply to any post here. </div></div>


I call BS on this. If you want to lie go some where where they might believe you. This is the wrong place
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

My FV will, under normal circumstances, with Wolf MT, almost always keep five-shot groups under .75 @ 100 yards, but .5? Wow...I don't think so. It happens fairly frequently, but to say that my rifle really shoots half minute out to 100, I can't. I have even pulled off one or two .60" groups, but it isn't the norm by any means. I expect groups to always be under 7/8" and that's about it.

My best 50 yard group was .350" (-.223=.127), but .500 (-.223=.227) is what I see most times.

Anybody that expects half-MOA at 100 yards with bone stock Savage is a far superior shot to me and/or smoking some good stuff...both of which are strong possibilities.

That being said, the Savage is an awesome rifle for the price and will likely be more than accurate enough to satisfy 98% of the shooters out there. I love mine and don't think I'll ever need a more accurate rifle for my purposes.

-The Kid.

-
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

My MKII will consistantly group .5 @ 50 pretty much all day. But .5 @ 100 is pushing it indeed. I have got some 1/4ish groups at 50 yards and suspect I could do this a litle more consistantly if I replaced the accutrigger. I am a big advocate of the Savage rimfires. I am a bigger advocate of the person behind the rifle. I have seen several 1k+ rimfire setups at the range that didnt shoot half as consistant as mine. Not really saying much about either rifle. Its attributed the time I have put behind the trigger of my rifle. Like most Savage's I have had good luck with CCI standard velocity blue box. It groups just as good as Wolf with the excepion of about 1 round out of 20 or so that flys a little. For general plinking it is my go to ammo. I would definitely recommend a Savage to you. But there a lot of other options that will serve you just as well for what you need. If I were you I would get the rifle that you feels fits best and practice... A LOT! Forget the 1/4" shit, it will come in time. Here is a couple pics of my setup. Also consider the SS scopes, they are perfect for a target rimfire.
IMG_5504.jpg

And now painted...
IMG_5788.jpg

IMG_5785.jpg

IMG_5784.jpg

IMG_5783.jpg
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

Not to beat a dead horse, but which one of the mkii's are GENERALLY most accurate out the box. There seems to be 1 million and 1 models. I've found:
Mkii f
Mkii fv
Mkii tr-sr (not bolt)
Mkii sv tr (much more expensive)
Mkii bsev

And the list goes on..... Which one of these are the ones that are said to have exceptional accuracy, for the price point.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

KSwift said:
The heavy barrel Savage MKII will be able to shoot 1/4" at 50 yds. The MKII is a proven rifle, and quality shooters can get 0.5 MOA groups surprisingly more often than once a blue moon. Even the cheapest .22 rifles sold new nowadays are often capable of sub-MOA groups, due to machining technology.

Muellers are excellent scopes, I have 3. I highly recommend your choice on the Target model (8-32x44).

Now, for <span style="text-decoration: underline">you</span> to bring it together, you need to:

Step 1 -
Buy MKII Mako rifle, Mueller Target scope, and base/rings (I recommend an airgun 1-piece mount/base, Leapers or UTG brand have been great for me). Seriously.

Step 2 -
Buy a few bricks (2000+ rounds) of cheap ammo (I recommend CCI Blazer, costs about $18 for 525 rounds).

Step 3 -
Go to the range with the whole package, and just shoot the rifle for fun a few times, don't even bother with the scope, just point it downrange and "shotgun" aim it. Try to hit empty shotgun hulls, and skip them along the ground, about 25 yds out.

Step 4 -
Mount the scope with rings/base. There's lots of people who think they know how to do it right and have goofy techniques, just do it yourself, it's straight forward, you'll learn by trial and understand things yourself better. Try to have the scope crosshairs RELATIVELY in a "+" shape, not an "X" shape, and make sure all the screws are as TIGHT as you can hand turn them, some people use a locking agent like Locktite to bind up the screw threads. The most important thing is the scope is set where you can put your head on the stock comfortably and see a clear circular outline, giving you a good eye relief.

Step 5 -
Shoot at a blank piece of paper, standard size, placed out at 25 yds. Don't mess with the scope turrets for at least 2 mags, just put rounds into that paper, getting used to the magnification, and adjust the side focus (knob on the left hand side of the scope) to where the image is clear at 25 yds. People talk about shooting rests, bipods, etc., don't worry about that unless you're really interested. Firm sandbags/gelbags (provided at lots of ranges), will serve you just fine.

Step 6 -
Put a fresh piece of paper out, and draw large "+" in the middle with a thick black marker. Now, shoot at this +, and shift the turrets knobs until the rounds get in the general center of the target. This may take over an hours worth of shooting to get a feel for the scope turrets, how much they adjust, and how to get your scope on target.

Step 7 -
Once you get rounds in the center area, put up this target at 25 yds, and start to shoot at each individual dot:

.22 Test Target

The target is made of .45 ACP cases, but the rifle will be perfectly capable of hitting these on the dot at 25 yds, despite what you will believe at this point. <span style="color: #3333FF">THIS IS THE LONGEST STEP, MAY BE FRUSTRATING, AND WILL DEVELOP YOUR FUNDAMENTAL BENCHREST SHOOTING SKILL.</span>

Step 8-
After probably 3 trips to the range, you'll be able to hit each .45 casing picture with cheap ammo consistently. Now, move the target out to 50 yards and do the same thing. Due to wind, ammo, etc, your groups will MORE than double, but keep at it. Again, this test is well within the capability of the rifle, it's all up to you. Just adjust the focus knob to get a clear picture at 50 yds, and keep shooting. POI change will require a few clicks adjustment on the vertical turret.

Step 9 -
After you can hit these targets at 50 yds, (about 1 MOA shots), go buy quality ammo. To step up at this point, and go sub MOA, you'll need match grade ammo, I recommend Eley, followed by Remington-Eley, followed by Federal Gold Medal, followed by Wolf/SK.

<span style="color: #FF0000">DO NOT BUY MATCH GRADE AMMO IN LITTLE 50/100-ROUND BOXES! Buy at least a brick (500 rounds). If you buy small amounts separately, you will have lot variances, age variances, etc, that will ruin the point of getting premium ammo. 50-boxes on the store shelf next to each other, same brand and line of stuff, WILL VARY ACCURACY WISE. Chances are ones been there for a year, one was dropped on the floor, etc. Buy in one go, and get 500 rounds of the same stuff.</span>

Step 10 -
Now, go back, clean the rifle out well. (22s need to be cleaned between ammo changes to season the barrel with the new lube, no joke). Then shoot the new ammo for a few mags, and figure out where your POI (point of impact) change is. It will change, mostly because match ammo is subsonic, and bulk rate stuff isn't. Readjust your scope, and go for it.

After maybe half a dozen days at the range and 2-3k rounds of ammo; the MKII Mako, Mueller, & Eley ammo will give you 1/4" groups at 50 yds, if you learned well.

If you see someone at the range with what looks to be a premium .22 setup (ie retro scope as long as the rifle barrel, held in what looks like coil springs), ask for pointers. If there's a club at the range, join.

<span style="color: #FF9900">To those of you who think this can't be done with the mentioned equipment, you need to learn how to shoot.
laugh.gif
Bench rest rimfire differs quite a bit from other disciplines of shooting.</span> [/quote


So your saying this can be done with an out of the box Savage. I say your full of SHIT. YES YOU READ THAT RIGHT SHIT. Mueller and Savage and 1/4 inch groups at 50yards it will never happen. Ill pay your airfair and hotel expenses to see it. Let me know if you want to take me up on it. This is an open forum i have the money for you to prove me wrong. Lets make this happen. You have a Savage 22 rifle that will shoot 1/4 inch groups at 50 yards with a Mueller scope on it
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alright, for people who are calling out the claim that a heavy barrel MKII can't hit half MOA, let's squash the internet board arguing with some claims from <span style="text-decoration: underline">industry subject matter experts</span>.

For ease of calculations, I'm going to approximate 1" at 100yds as 1 MOA, not 1.0whatever the exact value is. This diff is fairly negligible.

No particular order:

<span style="color: #FF0000">0.4 MOA</span> Chuck Hawks says his MK II BV had a factory target of 0.4" at 100 yds (with Fed Gold Medal).
http://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_markII-BV_rifle.htm

<span style="color: #FF0000">0.4 MOA Savage factory test shooter
025 MOA from Chuck Hawks at 102 yds!!!</span>
Chuck Hawks then goes and gets a MK II BSEV, with another .4 inch factory target at 100yds. But here's his claim, quoted directly from his website:
<span style="color: #3366FF">"It threw shots into a nickel-sized hole at forty yards with most everything I fed it and in a later range session shot repetitive sub-quarter inch groups. This was with Lapua 36 grain HP ammunition at a laser-verified 102 yards."</span>
http://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_bsev.htm

<span style="color: #FF0000">0.38 MOA best group</span>
Gun Test for Outdoor life says this about their MK II (using Remington Eley and CCI Green Tag ammo):
<span style="color: #3366FF">"After the gun was sighted-in at 50 yards in a test tunnel, the first four 5-shot groups measured .191, .202, .263 and .260 inches, for an average of .229 inches."</span>
http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/gear/shooting/2008/06/gun-test-08?photo=6

<span style="color: #FF0000">0.625 MOA</span> Jeff Quinn off of Gunblast says this about his MK II BV at 50 yds: <span style="color: #3333FF">"The worst group of the day measured just seven-eighths of an inch. That was the worst. The best measured just five-sixteenths of an inch, which was repeatable with that ammo all day long. "</span> If he got 5/16ths all day long, it's not much of a stretch to say that occassionally he got a 4/16th group in there once in a while, but we won't fluff the claim, 5/16ths (with Win-Olin ammo) it is.
http://www.gunblast.com/Savage-MarkIIBV22.htm

<span style="color: #FF0000">0.5MOA at 50 yds</span>
But how about a little home turf representation, here's <span style="color: #009900">VYD on SNIPERS HIDE</span> with a 0.25" at 50 yds (with premium Eley/Fed Gold Medal/Wolf ammo) claim, with pictures:
<span style="color: #3366FF">"5 shots, yes, it is usually between .25" to .37" at 50 yards if I do my part and if the weather permits.
"</span>
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2140385

Interesting, how none of the great-shooting skeptics with their 40xs and Annies in this thread went and challenged his integrity...

So for you guys throwing the BS flag, you need to LEARN HOW TO SHOOT YOUR 40Xs AND ANNIEs, because you bought more gun than you can use. No point in upgrading your gear while it can still outshoot you.

Granted, these shooters are good, much better than average, and the factory 0.4 MOA targets were probably shot in a low pressure wind tunnel with a vise and a 36X Leupold, but still:

<span style="font-size: 14pt">Does anyone feel this doesn't solidify the claim that heavy barrel Savage MK II's are capable of 0.5 MOA groups?</span> </div></div>



Yes im calling you out on this. I have a Match in December in Arizona i would like to see you prove what you posted. Ill back it up with Cash money. Do we have a deal
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to beat a dead horse, but which one of the mkii's are GENERALLY most accurate out the box. There seems to be 1 million and 1 models. I've found:
Mkii f
Mkii fv
Mkii tr-sr (not bolt)
Mkii sv tr (much more expensive)
Mkii bsev

And the list goes on..... Which one of these are the ones that are said to have exceptional accuracy, for the price point. </div></div>
.....
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

^^^yeah the number of models will make your head spin. to help narrow it down between the models:

1. the heavier barreled models typically shoot better than the sporter

2. wood looks good, but synthetic doesn't expand and contract - the selling wood causes pressure in spots at times, so a synthetic stocked heavy barrel will be the more consistant shooter.

3. barrel length - doesn't mean much unless using opens (for sight picture) anything between 16 and 20 will be fine.

4. accutriggers - nicer trigger pull / creep / etc. than a non accutrigger model, but not as nice as dropping in a rifle basix trigger.

so a heavy barreled, synthetic stocked model with any length barrel is your model for consistancy. the rest is for aesthetics. a lower priced FV walmart model is the same receiver / barrel combo as the highest priced MKII, minus the accutrigger.

to the rest of the jibba jabba, i have 2 MKIIs, an F and BV model both with a few thousand rounds through them. if the planets align just right, and there is no wind, and i didn't drink a gallon of mtn dew that morning, and it happens to be on the solstice, a MKII may do .25" at 50. but i wouldn't go saying they are .25moa rifle. on good days 1/2" at 50, but usually / average .75" at 50. on good days, 1" to 1.5" at 100, but realistically you can expect under 2" at 100.

there is no way they are of the same stature, craftsmanship, or accuracy of an annie or 40x. to believe that is just plain nonsense.

in fact i'm 70% sure i'm going to sell my MKIIBV for a marlin 22XTVR (heavy barrel), which i believe will out shoot any one of the heavy barreled savages. plus the synthetic stock is a heck of a lot more ergonomic and aesthetically pleasing. a test i did with a sporter barreled marlin 25 / 925 comes close to shooting equally with a heavy barreled savage, i'm 90% convinced a heavy barreled XT will surpass the MKII - and at a comparable or even lower price.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

So does this:
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/24563
Considered to have the same expected accuracy as
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/60987

I know their stocks are different, but I actually want the cheaper rifles stock because thats what my 308 has. Any help on this will be much appreciated!
I want to get something that I can actually fit into, there's no way I can use my marlin 795 as a trainer anymore. Its just too damn small and the trigger is like pushing a brick wall.
 
Re: .22LR Target Shooting

Can anyone with experience chime in on that? I'm planning on getting one soon do just waiting in an answer