.22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

[mattri]

Tried a search, sorry if this has been covered.

Have an old Glenfield model 60, it's a great plinker.
Would like to get something more acurate, with more reach.
Considering a Savage MKIIFV or a 93 FV.
How much does a .22mag extend your effective range over a .22lr vs the cost of ammo?
At what point are you better off just geting a .223?
Any suggestions welcome, Matt.

 

[natdscott]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

At 100 yards, the .22 Mag is lovely. I do dearly love my 640K Chuckster, but beyond that, the .223 can and will do anything the mag can do, but more accurately and with hugely greater punch.

Properly loaded, the .223 is a fine all-round cartridge to 300 yards. I think mine does really quite well at 600 (service rifle shooter).

That said, you sure can't go willy nilly shooting a .223 in the air, and they are VERY much louder than either of the other two.

If you want a .22 Mag, I really recommend you either get an Annie, or look around at shows until you can find a Mossberg 640K "Chuckster"...very much one of the most accurate .22 WMRs ever built in mas production. Mine is very much below half-MOA at 50y with Remington Premium, and about 3/4 MOA at 100. Good shooter to about 300 yards.

-Nate

Edit: Sorry. The .22 Mag with 40 grainers will very solidly anchor a groundhog at 175 yards. "Coyotes" and the like, shot in the chest are hard pressed to get up as well. Incidentally, "deer-sized" animals and "pig-sized" animals are easily taken with appropriate shots as well. Keep it under 125 for that though.

.22LR is best kept under 75. I have and do shoot to 300 with one though.

.223 is another league of power, as discussed prior.

 

[SledDog]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

What do you want to do? I love the 22lr, and use it out to 80-100yds or so frequently, both hunting and target. For a bit I was looking to go longer and really considered a 17hmr, which kills for accuracy close in, and packs a solid punch 100-150 or so. It's more wind sensitive than a 22wmr, but I think inherently more accurate.

The 223 is almost a whole 'nother ballgame, quickly doubling those ranges with more pop, and of them all is the one I'd pick for bigger game like coyote or bobcat.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

I think the question is really 22LR vs 17HMR vs 223.

22LR has the cheapest available ammo and is the standard for rimfire. If you want to compete with rimfire, 17HMR is not allowed most places. 22LR wins up to 50 yards. Beyond that, its inherent accuracy starts to drop off. I shoot 22LR at 100 and now 200 yards BECAUSE it sucks so bad at these conditions. You have to learn to read win and deal with factors that are difficult to control.

17HMR outshines the 22LR at 100 yards to 300 yards. It will be pointed out that the ammo is much more expensive than bulk 22LR. However, if you shoot top of the line 22LR ammo, the price per box is comparable ($10.50 a box for Eley Match, $13.50 a box for Eley Tenex, $13 a box for 17HMR). There is no match grade ammo for 17HMR ammo. In fact, it is all made by the same manufacturer (CCI) at the same plant and branded by different companies. Usually you can find one of the brands on sale... buy that one. Also, the 17HMR rifles are very accurate out of the box... most of them sub-MOA at 100 yards. And they cost $300 or so a gun. If you pay $300 for a 22, don't expect to be getting the same type of accuracy that an out-of-the box 17 will have. Why the 17 over the 22WMR? The bullets are better (albeit, more expensive). If you need it for varmint hunting, you can get the hollow points. For target shooting / accuracy, you can get the V-Maxes. They shoot flatter and have more energy out to around 150 yards. After that, 22WMR's weight takes over and allows it to keep velocity. Still, for accuracy and for varminting, the 17HMR is pretty much superior. Otherwise, it would not have been invented.

The argument for .223 is that it is cheaper per round to reload than 17HMR. Because it is centerfire, you can get it more accurate, less finicky, and with a longer range than all of the above. If you don't reload, this option is kind of off the table. If you do reload, it is a viable option (assuming you can get reloading components these days).

To recap:
- 22LR: more competitions, most susceptible to wind (a good and bad thing). Cheapest ammo.
- 17HMR: superior to 22LR at 100 and beyond. Shoots flatter. Great for varmints. Expensive (but generally good) ammo.
- 22WMR: inferior to 22WMR in almost every way except for certain applications (larger varmints requiring heavier bullets at greater than 150 yards)
- 223: Superior to all of them, but is not a rimfire. Most expensive ammo off the shelf, cheaper than 17HMR to reload. Shoots flattest and farthest. Can be most accurate. Is not a rimfire.

 

[mattri]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

Thanks for the replies.
The vast majority of my shooting is a mix between targets and small varmints like prairie dogs.
I really like my .22lr and have taken prairie dogs at 150 yards.
If I can shoot a .22lr effectively out to 150 yards and a .22 mag only extends that another 25 yards I'll just get a nicer .22lr for now and save my pennies for a .223.
If it has greater flexability than that I would be very interested in it.
I love the idea of a .22 mag just want to be sure it's worth buying.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

In my opinion, after 22 rimfire, the next stop is 223.

Impossible to beat the 22 for what it is and costs to operate.

The 223 can be downloaded to 22 mag performance, or loaded for everything from target, varmints, hunting, and long range shooting. In downloaded mode, it's probably cheaper to shoot than the 22Mag or 17 HMR, and you can have a broad choice of bullets.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattri</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I really like my .22lr and have taken prairie dogs at 150 yards.
If I can shoot a .22lr effectively out to 150 yards and a .22 mag only extends that another 25 yards I'll just get a nicer .22lr for now and save my pennies for a .223. </div></div>

No, it extends it to about 300 yards. Of course, is it accurate to hit out to there? A decent 22LR will be about 2 MOA or roughly 3 inches +/- at 150 yards. A 17 (or 22WMR) would be +/- that at about 250 or 300 yards, so really, your effective range is extended quite a bit.

If you don't plan to shoot that far, it might not be a reasonable point.

If you are a reloader trying to increase your power and effective range, I agree with Montana Marine, .223 all the way. If you don't reload and want to extend your effective range, 17HMR and 22WMR are viable options.

Rather than upgrading your 22LR, I would pick your strategy and go with it. Maybe that means forgoing a new 22 now and saving for a great 223... or maybe that means getting a great 22 and focusing on rimfire. If you try to do both, you might end up with a decent 22 and a decent 223 as opposed to a passable 22 and a great 223 or a very nice 22... like and Anschutz or a custom 40x.

That is just my philosophy. My goal is to own as few guns as possible... but enough so that each one serves a purpose.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

i agree with carter, and although i don't have one to give firsthand knowledge, just going on from what i've read, possibly a .204 can be thrown into the mix.

i do love my .22 mag for hunting squirrel, turkey, crows, coyotes at less than 100 yds, and other small critters, as it does produce a bit more range and whallop than the 22lr. especially with the 30 gr vmax hornady ammo.

and although the .223 has much more range and whallop than both, i've shot enough stuff and target accurately with it that it has to some extent "gotten boring".

i was going to get a .17, but i'm waiting (hoping) for savage to put a 5mm rimfire bolt out.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

I agree with Carter. I think the rimfire/jacketed bullet concept fails the cost/benefit test.

 

[762frmafr]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

everyone is forgetting the 22 hornet. a lot quieter than the 223 and almost as much range in the right hands.

 

[ARCOREY]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

With proper loading you can run reduced loads for the 223 in the low 2000 fps range and be as loud as a 22 mag with the ability to run bullets in the 50 grain range. Then you can turn around and run a full power load in the 3600 fps range using conventional ammo. I use reduced loads in my 223/12 ga combo gun for predator hunting. Plenty of power to take critters out to 100+ yds and very quiet. Also much less fur damage. Google Seafire bluedot loads and prepare to read.

 

[m21black]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

+1 on the Hornet, with reloads it's cheaper than the 22 mag to shoot and has a lot more punch. To me the 22 mag is an over priced waste of a cartridge.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 762frmafr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">everyone is forgetting the 22 hornet. a lot quieter than the 223 and almost as much range in the right hands. </div></div>

 

[jayd4wg]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

Anyone that can say that the 22WMR is hands down inferior to the 17 at all is full of shit and knows not his ass from a hole in the ground. Okay...that's a bit harsh, but we'll move on from there, we are all friends here

 

[PeteCamp]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

Oh we can tell you've been drinkin' something. You managed to cover the field with BS flags.

 

[jayd4wg]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

In re-reading, I think i may have been a bit condescending... that much I apologize for. I'm pretty passionate about the little WMR. I think the reason the 17 is so popular though is due to good marketing. Not that it's a bad performing caliber, and there are merits to a very fast little chunk of metal. It's just that my primary use for a rimfire is NOT paper, it's furry critters and I take pride in taking the most humane shots possible...I hate to see animals suffer and will do my damnedest to turn the lights off rather than letting the air out if I can. Letting the air out is my option only when I don't think i'm capable of turning off the lights if you follow me. The 17 bullets I have seen/used are all very thin skinned HP's and they literally explode on impact with very shallow wound cavities. I saw a fox hit in the shoulder with one last fall, the skin and muscle under the hit was just GONE, but the fox ran and ran...it was recovered after a second shot, after tracking it for another 200 yards or so. it had bed down and this time my hunting partner poked it in the throat with the hummer. It gave up after that.

I think it's funny how there is plenty of 17 ammo on the shelves right now and NO WMR ammo. can't even mail order it. I have wiped out most of my walmarts for the Remington 33gr's cus they have em for 14.97 whereas most other stores and online are 20 bucks a box. This tells me that people are either giving up on the 17 locally (most guys I know that used one for the past couple years are going back to the 22lr or the 22mag for hunting cus they don't tear the squirrels up as bad). I usually hit squirrels with CCI solids, and I take care to anchor them with the tree as a backstop unless they are on the ground. I don't want to send that little bullet to the next county and risk it coming in contact with a house. (our neighbor had a "projectile" come thru their roof this year when the Steelers clenched the SB - buncha idiots outside blazing away.

Damn this coffee...I'm never drinking it again. I was actually gonna go to the range after work tonight, but there is no way in hell i'd be any good to any piece of paper to post up here for internet bragging or crying...i'll wait till my nerves are not shot.

Does the 15 dot target posted on this board suffice for 50 yard rimfire? That was my plan, shoot one at 50 and one at 100 just to post here with the 882...it really is a good shooting wmr when it's eating the right lot of ammo. The Remmy stuff seems fairly consistent though I don't have a scale to weigh them, i rarely get any flyers. If you guys have a better target to use for consistency, lemme know.

as for the flags, address them, and I'll do the same...

 

[BiggerStick47]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

FWIW I just walked out of a Walmart and there was no 22lr, very little 17hmr, and alot of 22wmr.

 

[jayd4wg]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

Nice...send me some LOL...

Here in SW pa, 22WMR is a box here...a box there, inconsistent lot numbers, etc. People are ramped up for small game and fall turkey.

there is some 22lr, it's pricey now too...bricks for 18-25 depending on brand and the 17HMR has stacks and stacks of boxes. Anyone wanna trade ammo? :shrug:

 

[clmayfield]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

Here is a good article comparing 17HMR to 22WMR: Chuckhawks Article

The bottom line (for me at least) is accuracy. If you are hunting turkey silhouettes or turkeys with steel plates in their heads, go 22WMR. (BTW, it is momentum or MV that is driving the turning over of the turkey silhouettes, not energy, which is 1/2 MV^2).

As to which ammo is selling out... well a) that is a regional/local thing and b) there is no way to imply how well a round is or is not selling. You don't know how many facings were dedicated to a particular SKU or how much planned inventory they keep. I don't think the 17HMR is dying any time soon. Neither is the 22WMR, so that should not be part of the purchase decision.

 

[strick9]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

You need all three 22lr, 22mag, 223 then dump the 17hmr add 204 add 22 hornet but then you need 243 and......

I own only the 22 Wmr and 223, covers my bases.

 

[jayd4wg]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

22wmr, 308, 12ga slug gun, semi auto .22lr...yup, i have close medium and long range covered...

I really love my .22mag, hoping to go stretch it's legs this weekend. Need a stress release.

 

[AK10mm]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

The shelves at the gun shops here are loaded with 22 WMR and 17 HMR,22lr has been the problem for months,I just bought a brick of CCI Segmented Hypervelocity yesterday,I got lucky,the place I got it from only had two bricks come in the day before.I also think the 22 Hornet is a good choice,even with todays over inflated prices for components,it's cheaper to reload than to buy 22 WMR.Just my .02 for what it's worth.

 

[shooter65]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

22 lr. and a fast twist 223 will cover it all.

 

[WhiteKnight]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

Noise volume also puts the .223 in a distant category from .22 and .17HMR.

 

[Larry Burchfield]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

I vote for the 22lr, 22mag, 223. the cost difference between the 22mag and the 17hmr is enough to stay away from the 17's. and I don't think that the 17hm2 ever caught one at least in this part of the world.
My two cents.
Larry

 

[NordicG3K]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

Another vote for the .22 Hornet. Absolutely devastating on coyotes and smaller critters out to 150 yards or so, with very little recoil or noise compared to the .223 Rem. It's nice to be able to see your shots hit without the crosshairs jumping around.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

I agree with a lot of what's being said.

I see no point to trying to use rimfire cartridges with jacketed bullets.

I see the question as being a choice between the .22LR or the .223 (or .222) Rem. For shorter distance applications, (to 100yd, target of varminting), subsonic shooting, and ones where noise becomes an issue, the .22LR commands the stage.

For beyond that, the .222/.223 can be loaded to achieve all forms of performance. I've run 52SMK's with 7gr of Unique as damned accurate gallery loads (with NO wind bucking capacity), and the same bullet with 27.5gr of W748. But to be honest, the gallery load still isn't superior to the .22LR for its chosen application. For Varmints, the 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tip and 25.4gr of W748 is nigh infallible. My rifle is a box-stock M700 .223 VLS.

A friend uses the .22 Hornet to keep critters down in his vineyards, and I think that's a good solution for his unique neighbor situation, but unless I had similar problems, I'd continue to stick with the .22LR and/or .222/.223.

Greg

 

[gopherslayer]

Re: .22lr vs .22 mag vs .223

I have 22lr 22mag and 223. Once I discovered reduced loads the 22 mag has collected alot of dust...3 years worth.

Blue dot is a solid performer for reduced loads. 12gr with 46gr hollowpoint I get 2775fps. Accuracy is excellent. Load it down further for 22 mag performance.