25cm vs 6.5cm w/135’s

[Feniks Technologies]

So, just getting some opinions.

Those of you running 135 Bergers in a 25cm.

Why not just a 6.5cm with 135 atips or similar?

 

[inkballedtarget]

Following this.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Following this.

I doubt there will be any tangible reasons. *Possibly* a very slight difference in recoil.

Also, I could be wrong but I don’t think the 135 A-Tip was out or it was very new when 131 blackjacks were released.

So, at the time, it was basically the 130 Berger for 6.5.

But, I can absolutely be missing something. So, figured I’d ask.

 

[Supersubes]

Like you said, the atip wasnt out when the 131 arrived, which is what most started with. The 131 has a better bc than the 135 atip, and darn close to the 153 atip. They’re roughly 40% cheaper as well. We’re pretty much forced into the 135 berger now, which still has a better bc than the 135 atip, and still 20% cheaper. A performance increase indeed, but only slight.

Edit:
The 6.5/130 berger combo isn't even in the ballpark(eh, maybe in the park, but outperformed anyway) if you're just bench racing the two. Like comparing heavy 6mm bc’s to a heavy 6.5, but without the speed advantage.

 

[Hoyt7mm]

It's also worth noting that the 135 Bergers have been readily available during this madness as compared to 6.5 offerings. Granted, I haven't kept up on 135 Atip availability specifically

 

[Feniks Technologies]

It's also worth noting that the 135 Bergers have been readily available during this madness as compared to 6.5 offerings. Granted, I haven't kept up on 135 Atip availability specifically

Atips have been generally easier to find than Berger. And with cost increases, they are unfortunately quickly becoming competitive in their pricing.

I have a 25cm barrel and messing with 135 Bergers and pva solids. There seems to be a building popularity with the 25cm with hunters as well.

I’ll try to 135 Atips too.

Just curious if there was anything not obvious.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Atips have been generally easier to find than Berger. And with cost increases, they are unfortunately quickly becoming competitive in their pricing.

I have a 25cm barrel and messing with 135 Bergers and pva solids. There seems to be a building popularity with the 25cm with hunters as well.

I’ll try to 135 Atips too.

Just curious if there was anything not obvious.

You basically nailed the differences. Higher bc with the .257 bergers, probably a slight less recoil, 135 bergers have been available everywhere, a little cheaper, etc. If you were set up for 6.5 with Atips, there probably wouldn't be a reason to go to the .257 bergers. Vice versa for the other way around.

 

[Supersubes]

Atips have been generally easier to find than Berger. And with cost increases, they are unfortunately quickly becoming competitive in their pricing.

I have a 25cm barrel and messing with 135 Bergers and pva solids. There seems to be a building popularity with the 25cm with hunters as well.

I’ll try to 135 Atips too.

Just curious if there was anything not obvious.

Im on my first barrel also, about 600 rounds in. Not life changing by any means, but I have no real gripes other than the 131 availability. I did just receive the berger 133’s hunters, but haven't played with them yet. Speaking of hunting, I have a 7 twist proof carbon here along with a bare Defiance Anti. It may become a light hunter.

 

[Yoteski]

So, I ran 135 atips last year in my 6.5 Creed, and am running 135 Bergers right now in my 25 Creed. There's not a ton of difference between the two honestly, which I knew before I jumped into the .25. I don't have very many rounds down range in the 25, but it is impressing me thus far. The thing the .25 Creed is giving me, which is exactly what I was hoping for, is easy performance. I'm running at 40.9 grains of H4350, running a 4 SD, and getting 2,800 FPS. I can easily push on it and get to 2,900 fps, but there isn't really a reason to do so. To get the same performance, I was close to 43 grains of H4350 in my 6.5.
So, with a stroke of my press handle, I get a bump in BC, velocity, and cost/performance; what's not to love? Is it significant? No. But, I think that argument can be made across the board when talking bullets and cartridges. Is performance really that different between a 6 BR/BRA/Dasher? Same argument. The 25 Creed, for now anyhow, maxes out performance in the Creedmoor case. It would do the same thing in the X47 case. Same thing in the .308 case. Ballistically, you're running side by side with a 6.5 PRC.
I'm going to be running it (25 Creed) in the majority of matches I shoot this year, which won't be a ton, but I'll have a better idea of performance after this year is over. As of right now, I'm very impressed with it. Who knows where I'll be with it by the end of this year. I had a simple goal for the build; a lightweight build that maximized my rifle performance in the tricky winds found out west. Would it be worth it if you were shooting PRS matches? IMO, no. When you can throw a digger and get a wind call, there's really no reason to run anything more than a Dasher or similar. I'm trying to maximize my first round impact performance and the numbers on paper show that the 25 might get me some edge hits that would be misses with other cartridges.

 

[Matt_3479]

I’ve been running the 6creed, 25 creed and a 260 rem for a few years. Like previously mentioned, the gains may be small but it’s still gains. I went with it at the time due to the blackjacks and it was a pretty decent increase in performance with a little less recoil compared to the 260. It sure does great on those windy days. I’ve been extremely impressed with the consistency of these bullets (minus availability anymore) and performance on game. Might just be me but I kind of like the slightly more different calibers and when the 25 first came back to light it seemed like it might be fun. Doing it over id probably go with a 25x47.

 

[inkballedtarget]

Any tips on where to keep an eye out for a 25 cal barrel? Are yall running 7 twist for the 135s?

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Doing it over id probably go with a 25x47.

If i didnt already have ass loads of creedmoor brass and a set of dies, then i would have definitely gone the x47 route.

 

[Matt_3479]

Any tips on where to keep an eye out for a 25 cal barrel? Are yall running 7 twist for the 135s?

Im running a KS arms (Canadian barrels) in a 7 twist. There barrels are hammers, easy to clean and extremely quick turn around times normally

 

[Matt_3479]

If i didnt already have ass loads of creedmoor brass and a set of dies, then i would have definitely gone the x47 route.

Yah I regret not doing the x47. I just figured head stamped brass but once this barrel is shot ill switch

 

[tcole75]

I'll kick up an old thread. I went from the 6.5 cm shooting berger 130s to the 25cm with berger 135s. I was extremely surprised by how much less recoil there is. It's a pretty significant amount. Also the bc is much higher. I can find bullets and atips are just more expensive

 

[Supersubes]

I'll kick up an old thread. I went from the 6.5 cm shooting berger 130s to the 25cm with berger 135s. I was extremely surprised by how much less recoil there is. It's a pretty significant amount. Also the bc is much higher. I can find bullets and atips are just more expensive

Thats surprising, I found the opposite. Pretty much identical, and the recoil impulse calculators back that up.

 

[Yoteski]

Thats surprising, I found the opposite. Pretty much identical, and the recoil impulse calculators back that up.

Same boat. If anything, I thought the 25 recoil was a bit sharper maybe? Like maybe less recoil but a faster impulse. Either way, I've shot some amazing groups with it and will be running it at BOTC this next week.

 

[tcole75]

Well in all honesty I was shooting a 22in barrel 6.5 and the 25 is a 26in so not sure how much of a difference that makes. They both run about the same speed. The 130s ran 2760 and the 135s are running 2806. I also get better consistency out of the 25 vs 6.5

 

[Supersubes]

Well in all honesty I was shooting a 22in barrel 6.5 and the 25 is a 26in so not sure how much of a difference that makes. They both run about the same speed. The 130s ran 2760 and the 135s are running 2806. I also get better consistency out of the 25 vs 6.5

So your 25 is producing more recoil energy than the 6.5

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Idk how but with the same powder charge, I honestly feel more recoil with the 135s over the 131 blackjacks.

 

[Supersubes]

Idk how but with the same powder charge, I honestly feel more recoil with the 135s over the 131 blackjacks.

Same powder charge, heavier bullet, you should feel more recoil with the 135.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Same powder charge, heavier bullet, you should feel more recoil with the 135.

Right, I get it, but there is such a small difference in bullet weight, I wouldn't normally think there would be a noticeable difference in felt recoil. I understand how it works. If it were a 120 v 135gr, id get it. 4 gr ain't a lot. I feel more a a difference between the 131 and 135gr than I do my 95gr and 105g dasher load and the 95gr load has .8 gr higher charge weight..

 

[Supersubes]

Right, I get it, but there is such a small difference in bullet weight, I wouldn't normally think there would be a noticeable difference in felt recoil. I understand how it works. If it were a 120 v 135gr, id get it. 4 gr ain't a lot. I feel more a a difference between the 131 and 135gr than I do my 95gr and 105g dasher load and the 95gr load has .8 gr higher charge weight..

We’ve discussed it before( shit, maybe in this thread lol) but the 135 seems to make more pressure than the extra 4 grains would suggest. So I get what you're saying that the recoil difference feels outsized.

 

[High Desert duck]

We’ve discussed it before( shit, maybe in this thread lol) but the 135 seems to make more pressure than the extra 4 grains would suggest. So I get what you're saying that the recoil difference feels outsized.

I know we talked about it in the 25gt thread. I saw the same pressure in my 25gt moving from the 131 to the 135. The Berger knocked 2 grains and 120fps off of my max.

 

[Supersubes]

I know we talked about it in the 25gt thread. I saw the same pressure in my 25gt moving from the 131 to the 135. The Berger knocked 2 grains and 120fps off of my max.

Thats almost exactly the same amount I backed off on my 25cm when making the switch.

 

[4O6shootist]

I just wish a guy could get 131s again! I paid for 2k of them 10 months ago, and will likely never receive bullets or my funds refunded.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I just wish a guy could get 131s again! I paid for 2k of them 10 months ago, and will likely never receive bullets or my funds refunded.

Same

 

[beetroot]

What's the latest with the BJ bullets?
Is it just that Sierra is screwing them over or is BJ gone bust?

 

[Supersubes]

What's the latest with the BJ bullets?
Is it just that Sierra is screwing them over or is BJ gone bust?

Probably both.