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284 or 30-06 school me

S

STR

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 1, 2010
1,414
26
Miami Florida
OK, my turn to ask. I have a stock 270 Remington which I bought used with the intention of building a different caliber on. While I was thinking about the 30-06 at first, now I might want to go 284. The only problem is I don't have much personal experience shooting the 284. So I would like to hear from those that have experience with the 284, and why you would build it over the 30-06. I have not ordered the barrel yet. Don't quite yet know in which direction I will go with this build, as I already have a hunting rig in 7mm Rem Mag that I rarely use. Mostly like to shoot paper and steel. Any positive feed back is appreciated. Thanks in advanced.

Ozzie
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

The reason to go .284 Win over .30-06 is to push a higher BC projectile at a higher velocity.

162 A-Max/168 VLD/180VLD or JLK are excellent long-range bullets that buck the wind. The .30-06 just doesn't have the gas to keep up with the higher-BC 7mm bullets. Your best bet with a .30-06 will be with the significantly heavier projectiles with good BCs.

The downside of the .284 is that you've got limited brass options. You'll either have to find .284 Win brass or neck up norma or Lapua 6.5-284 brass.


You've yet to explain what your goals for this rifle are other than "paper and steel". What range paper and steel? If you're looking for short-medium range hunting, it may affect your decision. If you want to compete with the rifle, it may affect your decision. If you want to casually plink, it probably won't matter which you choose because they are both capable.

Do you handload? That will affect your decision.

So before a person can help you decide what is best for you, they'll need more information.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

What ranges will you regularly be shooting?
To be honest rebarreling that 270 to 243 and shooting 105/108/115's makes a lot of sense unless you're shooting really long range and wanting to spot hits.
6mm bullets are cheaper with minimal recoil.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

Your utilization will tell alot however going off of the generality I would venture to say it's a "better vs. best" comparison. Yes, the 7 has better BC bullets no doubt, but the 30-06 is no slouch and one could argue more versatile. The 155.5 Berger Fullbore bullets doing 3100+ out of a 30-06 is no slouch. Either is the 208 Amax out of the '06.

But then again, the 162 Amax out of the 7 is a screamer and the 180 Berger has proven itself time and time again.

As was pointed out brass is an issue. It's available and aplenty for the '06 as is any ammo. 7mm is a lot more limited and difficult to find.

So either way, you're not making a bad choice, but there are mitigating factors that may direct us more in one way or another given your use of the rifle.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

tag this, as i now have 2 30-06 rifles. i might rechamber 1.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

If you don't reload and just plinking (paper, steel & hunting) out to 600 yards and under, go with a 30-06. You can get ammo in almost every single sporting goods store in the US. Brass is readily available everywhere for the 06.

If you are wanting to target shoot at long distances (500-1k yards) and that is your primary purpose with that rifle, and you intend on reloading, go with a 284.

Like others have said brass is limited for the 284 but it will out perform the 06 for accuracy and ballistics.

If you are going to go with a 284 and even want to increase your performance, you may want to even consider a 284 Shehane. Same OAL & shoulder but the case body is .010 wider. This will give you 3+ grains more powder and substantial more velocity.

To add to the echo what others (Mike & Tylerw02) have said, it depends on your purpose, money you want to spend in ammo and if you are going to reload.

Last bit of advice, if you are going to have a 284 built, ask your gunsmith if he has a reamer that will suit the bullets that you intend on shooting. If you intend on shooting 160 gr bullets it will have a shorter freebore than if you have one set up to shoot 180 gr berger bullets. Having a reamer set up with the correct freebore will improve your chances of having the desired bullet you want to use shoot accurately. If your gunsmith doesn't know the answer to the freebore question, use someone else that does or purchase a reamer for yourself with the specs you want and have your gunsmith use your reamer.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Animal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last bit of advice, if you are going to have a 284 built, ask your gunsmith if he has a reamer that will suit the bullets that you intend on shooting. </div></div>

LOL at ask your gunsmith!!
laugh.gif
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: razor_blade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Animal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last bit of advice, if you are going to have a 284 built, ask your gunsmith if he has a reamer that will suit the bullets that you intend on shooting. </div></div>

LOL at ask your gunsmith!!
laugh.gif
</div></div>

I love to tell jokes just as much as anyone you'll meet, however, why did you find my comment about the gunsmith humorous? Just curious. Inside joke I'm missing?
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

The 30-06 doesn't quite have the trajectory that the 284 does. I own a great 30-06 and I really love that chambering. I also have seen a bunch of 284's built off my reamer spec and they shoot lights out. The 30-06 is easy to load for, there are TONS of places to get brass and bullets, and it's been going strong for many years as a match, hunting, and do-all caliber.

The hangup on 284's to me are as follows:

- Brass selection is limited and expensive
- Barrel life is decent but doesn't compare positively to a 30-06
- It really feeds and functions well from a long action, net zero with 30-06
- Depending on bottom metal used the feeding can be cumbersome but isn't difficult to remedy

I keep thinking back to what I want to do for a long action, standard face and look at these two rounds but for a couple reasons I keep saying "Yeah, let's do the 30-06 again"

I have dies, brass, bullets, powder, and LOTS of loading data and experience with the round.

Ozzie, please give me a call on it and I'll be happy to chat with you. I need to catch up with you anyway on some other stuff. Hope all is well, my friend.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Animal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: razor_blade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Animal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last bit of advice, if you are going to have a 284 built, ask your gunsmith if he has a reamer that will suit the bullets that you intend on shooting. </div></div>

LOL at ask your gunsmith!!
laugh.gif
</div></div>

I love to tell jokes just as much as anyone you'll meet, however, why did you find my comment about the gunsmith humorous? Just curious. Inside joke I'm missing? </div></div>

He is a gunsmith!
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Special Delivery</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Animal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: razor_blade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Animal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last bit of advice, if you are going to have a 284 built, ask your gunsmith if he has a reamer that will suit the bullets that you intend on shooting. </div></div>

LOL at ask your gunsmith!!
laugh.gif
</div></div>

I love to tell jokes just as much as anyone you'll meet, however, why did you find my comment about the gunsmith humorous? Just curious. Inside joke I'm missing? </div></div>

He is a gunsmith! </div></div>

I can see the humor in that, being a gunsmith as well. However, not knowing him, I couldn't assume that he was.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason to go .284 Win over .30-06 is to push a higher BC projectile at a higher velocity.

162 A-Max/168 VLD/180VLD or JLK are excellent long-range bullets that buck the wind. The .30-06 just doesn't have the gas to keep up with the higher-BC 7mm bullets. Your best bet with a .30-06 will be with the significantly heavier projectiles with good BCs.

The downside of the .284 is that you've got limited brass options. You'll either have to find .284 Win brass or neck up norma or Lapua 6.5-284 brass.


You've yet to explain what your goals for this rifle are other than "paper and steel". What range paper and steel? If you're looking for short-medium range hunting, it may affect your decision. If you want to compete with the rifle, it may affect your decision. If you want to casually plink, it probably won't matter which you choose because they are both capable.

Do you handload? That will affect your decision.

So before a person can help you decide what is best for you, they'll need more information. </div></div>

Totally agree. If you handload, the combination of necking up Lapua brass higher BC bullets (as compared to 30 cal) tips the scales in my mind. Might take a peek at a long action 7WSM or 7SAUM for that matter . . .
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

Sorry I didn't give you guys all the info, I should know better. This is an idea in progress. In other words, I haven't completely settled on all the specs. You have all already given me info that puts me closer to a decision. I don't like the whole brass issue with the 284. The furthest I'll shoot will be inside of 500 yards if they ever finish the locally proposed range.

To shoot out to 1000 yards I have to drive 3 1/2 hours, which only happens every 4 months. For that I already have a 300 Mag, 338 LM, and several others that do well. I do hand load, and have all the components for the 30-06, but don't really mind expanding. I do not compete, because I don't practice enough, plus time is a huge factor in my life.

I won't be hunting with it. I'm more a shooter than a hunter, even though the opportunity to hunt presents it's self yearly. I mostly like to shoot at a steel plate, or on paper. It could be 100 yards or 1000 as long as I'm behind a rifle. The main reason I asked about the 284 is because I wanted to know from those who know, just how much better it was for the purpose I just outlined.

As for the .243, I have a short action Remy that is chambered in 22-250 that I will turn into a .243 when the barrel is trash. That's not far away. I haven't had that caliber for myself either, but have shot with a guy who has a Desert Tactical in that caliber. To say I was impressed is an understatement. So that is a future build for sure.

Animal, don't be upset. He's just playing with you because he knows I build all my own rifles. I use to have a shop, and built rifles for a while. It was supposed to be a part time extra money making idea that got out of control, and had taken over my life. Now I just hang around here, and learn as much as possible from you guys.

Looks like you guys have given me enough to decide on the 30-06. Thank you all very much.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

BTW, I came to the conclusion after talking with Bohem, which happened while I was writting my reply. Did want you guys to know how crazy I really am, LOL. Thanks again.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I don't like the whole brass issue with the 284
</span> </div></div>

Good decision. The only downside I have found having a .284 <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> the brass. I didn't want to neck up/neck turn so I went with Win brass and it is shit. Hopefully Norma, Nosler, or Lapua will start making straight .284 brass.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

If you already have everything to reload the .30-06 then you are good to go (I am partial to the .30-06). But the challenge of a new caliber is always tempting. I just got a new .260 and now loading for the .260 and the .308 is a ton of fun...

Good Luck, I think either way you have two excellent rounds picked out!!!
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And don't forget about the 280 and 280AI... </div></div>
I agree with turbo. Nosler brass and you can get the 168 vld's @ 3000fps. I have 1 280AI and getting another built by Robert Gradous. If you are not wanting a 280AI then go with the 284. Good luck on your build.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I don't like the whole brass issue with the 284
</span> </div></div>

Good decision. The only downside I have found having a .284 <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> the brass. I didn't want to neck up/neck turn so I went with Win brass and it is shit. Hopefully Norma, Nosler, or Lapua will start making straight .284 brass. </div></div>

284 brass has been a non-issue for me. No problems with Winchester brass, on the 9th firing. I did lightly turn the necks, loaded .313 for a .317 neck chamber.

The 284 is a great round. EZ to work up load, single digit ES/SD's with 4831SC. Have 2500+rds on the barrel, will chamber another 284 when the barrel is toast.

No experience with a 30-06.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinU</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I don't like the whole brass issue with the 284
</span> </div></div>

Good decision. The only downside I have found having a .284 <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> the brass. I didn't want to neck up/neck turn so I went with Win brass and it is shit. Hopefully Norma, Nosler, or Lapua will start making straight .284 brass. </div></div>

284 brass has been a non-issue for me. No problems with Winchester brass, on the 9th firing. I did lightly turn the necks, loaded .313 for a .317 neck chamber.


</div></div>

I have heard the same from other guys as well so I must have gotten some bad shit. My two bags had several with overly thick rims that couldn't fit the shell holder, oblonged flash holes, and they exhibit gas/soot rings even on mildly loaded rounds. One time fired and the new primers practically go in by hand.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

RobG,

Sounds like you got a bad batch.

Just ordered another 300pcs for the next barrel, it all looks good.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

I`ve shot both for years and the 284 with higher bc bullets gets my vote. Just take Lapua 6.5x284 and neck up. Simple.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry I didn't give you guys all the info, I should know better. This is an idea in progress. In other words, I haven't completely settled on all the specs. You have all already given me info that puts me closer to a decision. I don't like the whole brass issue with the 284. The furthest I'll shoot will be inside of 500 yards if they ever finish the locally proposed range.

To shoot out to 1000 yards I have to drive 3 1/2 hours, which only happens every 4 months. For that I already have a 300 Mag, 338 LM, and several others that do well. I do hand load, and have all the components for the 30-06, but don't really mind expanding. I do not compete, because I don't practice enough, plus time is a huge factor in my life.

I won't be hunting with it. I'm more a shooter than a hunter, even though the opportunity to hunt presents it's self yearly. I mostly like to shoot at a steel plate, or on paper. It could be 100 yards or 1000 as long as I'm behind a rifle. The main reason I asked about the 284 is because I wanted to know from those who know, just how much better it was <span style="font-weight: bold">for the purpose I just outlined</span>.</div></div>

So to recap:
- you won't shoot at 1000
- you likely won't shoot beyond 500
- you don't hunt
- you don't compete
- you're happy shooting steel at 100
- you already have long range sticks
...

To be brutally honest, I think you're much better off getting a cheap Savage 223 and have fun. That'll more than meet your needs, it's inexpensive to shoot and to reload, and Savage rifles come accurate right out of the box (my 110 shoots .4MOA with factory ammo). Forget the 284, -06, 280/AI, etc.

Oh, and anyone who tells you the -06 can't shoot out to 1000 accurately is full of it IMHO. It's perfectly capable of doing all that and more.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To be brutally honest, I think you're much better off getting a cheap Savage 223 and have fun.</div></div>

LOL I said the same thing on the phone... He has a laser of a 223, he just wanted to try something new.

The 30-06 isn't THAT far behind a 284 when you look at reasonable barrel lengths, drop RL-17 from the list of powders (personal preference due to its known harshness on barrels), and load to reasonable pressures.

My 30-06 is a friggin hammer at 1300yd, I've got a killer reamer for a 284 too but I've never built anything personally on it.

Hugo, Flounderv2, several other SAC customers have 284's built by Mark that are awesome shooters. It's almost enough for me to build one just to join the club.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
To be honest rebarreling that 270 to 243 and shooting 105/108/115's makes a lot of sense unless you're shooting really long range and wanting to spot hits.
6mm bullets are cheaper with minimal recoil. </div></div>

Seriously, even a 6mmBR since you have the 223 covered.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

IMHO, the .280 would be about right.

Same cartridge profile for magazine feeding, better bullet selection, best utilization of the '06's case capacity. A 150gr Nos BT will reach 1Kyd supersonic, and accuracy is easy to find.

Greg
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

I'm not nearly as experienced as many who have responded and it already looks like you are down the road on the 06 but let me add food for thought:

I tend to think there are/were good reasons why the 284win wasn't particularly popular. Not the least of which being that 7mm is a crowded field to play on. If you are already stroking a long action and you don't like 270 win (I assumed that 270 rem was a typo if not...shrug) there's probably no more versatile round than 30-06 short of magnums. If you are already set up to reload it that's an even more compelling reason to run 06 vice 284. Also if memory serves 284 is a short action cartridge built to deliver 270 performance from a 308 case length, unless you are looking to load REALLY long boolits there's really no reason to put a short round into a long platform.
Thems just my two cents.
 
Re: 284 or 30-06 school me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grimm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not nearly as experienced as many who have responded and it already looks like you are down the road on the 06 but let me add food for thought:

I tend to think there are/were good reasons why the 284win wasn't particularly popular. Not the least of which being that 7mm is a crowded field to play on. If you are already stroking a long action and you don't like 270 win (I assumed that 270 rem was a typo if not...shrug) there's probably no more versatile round than 30-06 short of magnums. If you are already set up to reload it that's an even more compelling reason to run 06 vice 284. Also if memory serves 284 is a short action cartridge built to deliver 270 performance from a 308 case length, unless you are looking to load REALLY long boolits there's really no reason to put a short round into a long platform.
Thems just my two cents.
</div></div>

Sorry, what I meant was that I have a Remington 700 in 270 Win. I just figured we all knew that. It's not a typo, just me assuming, truly sorry.

Thanks for all the advise, and as I said before, It will be a 30-06. On the cheap Savage, well, that's just not my cup of tea, but thanks anyways. As for a 6 BR, that's in the works to. Just waiting on Joel to finish the stock for it. I'm in no hurry Joel, just in case you see this.

Truth is, I just wanted something I didn't already have, so I asked about the 284.
 
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