30 Nosler vs 30 Sherman Magnum

Sterlingb06

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Feb 11, 2020
    164
    24
    So not trying to pick fights or start wars, but I am trying to objectively understand what the differences are. If I have my dimensions correct (if not correct me please), everything is so close, that you can almost fire one round in the other's chamber (I am not condoning this, its a bad idea, but you get the point).

    A little backstory, I was looking for my next big 30 magnum and came across the 30 Sherman magnum. Seeing at it was a AI version of a 300 PRC, for which factory 300 PRC ammo shoots great in its chamber, I started my journey of reading all the different forums on it. I saw that its H20 capacity was similar to 30 nosler as well as MV with similar brass/bullets/barrel lengths, so I started looking for the differences to see which one made more since for me. Note: I will have a barrel spun up and I reload, so no need to bring in the factory rifle crowd.

    I found the SAAMI specs drawing of the 30 Nosler on Quickload as well as the 30 Sherman Magnum's drawing on Gordon's Reloading Tool (neither program one had the other's cartridge so couldn't do a proper comparison of loads in the programs). Here are the images.

    30Nosler.png


    30ShermanMagnum.png


    First of all, does anyone with experience not agree with these dimensions? If so, no need to read the next paragraph...

    If not, what I found was they both have a magnum bases (.534"). 30 Nos is slightly rebated with a base diameter of .550" and 30 SM stays at 0.534". The Nos has a little more taper but due to the wider base and shorter case/shoulder junction, the Nos has about the same case diameter at the shoulder - 0.004" larger ( 0.528" vs 0.524"). The case/shoulder junction occurs at 2.115" for the Nos and 2.164" for the SM (so 0.050" difference) but with the 35 degrees (Nos) vs the 40 degrees (SM), the neck shoulder junction is closer to each other at at 2.246" vs 2.272" (Nos vs SM), a 0.026" difference. The SM also has a 0.024" longer neck so the SM has a case length that is ~ 0.050" longer. Throw all this into the regonculator and they have the same case capacity, and for the same bullet they are within 0.050" in COAL (for example, a properly seated 215 Hybrid is just above 3.600" for Nosler - just choose jump to get your needed freebore).

    I know the standard 30 SM reamers have a nominal freebore setup for the heavier bullets so a 215 Hybrid will be higher in the neck and COAL will be up around 3.700+", but you can get the Nosler freebore'ed to do the same. I am just now figuring out that all of these cartridges are the same if you get to choose your freebore? Am I overlooking something or not giving something enough credit/weight?

    So my question to all - does everybody agree that if I hand you two rifles (one chambered in each), that you could not load one better than the other, know which one you were firing if given to you blind, or even giving you one round of each could you tell me which is which (no peeking at the headstamp)?

    Last request - there has to be at least 1 hide member that has both of these. Can you please post a picture of the two side by side and do not label them? I have seen 300 PRC vs 30 SM and 300 PRC vs 30 Nos but not 30 SM vs 30 Nos. I would like to see if there is truly a discernable difference.

    PS: I have read most of the posts on 30 SM, not looking for quip remarks, but rather looking to have an objective conversation.
     

    Steel head

    Feral kitten
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Aug 3, 2014
    18,153
    58,312
    Washington
    Splitting hairs
    Easy way to make the decision is brass quality, brass availability and possibly freebore but a short freebore is easily remedied.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: BCX

    Supersubes

    Heathen
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Sep 6, 2006
    7,325
    7,497
    Eastern Sierra
    Splitting hairs
    Easy way to make the decision is brass quality, brass availability and possibly freebore but a short freebore is easily remedied.
    Agree, lapua brass for the win. Hell, all three of them are splitting hairs from a case design perspective. I’ll stick with the PRC.
     

    Sterlingb06

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 11, 2020
    164
    24
    Thanks guys. I guess the rebated rim is a factor to some (mag feeding, might have to machine action rails, etc.). Anyone have real world experience with noslers out of stock actions - problematic or no?

    And I didn't add the mix the 30-28 nosler. It has the same .550" base diameter, taper and 35 degree shoulder as the regular 30 nosler but with the shoulder a little more forward like the 30 SM/300 PRC, it adds another few grains of H2O capacity.

    It seems like its the largest case that is designed for heavy bullets and with regular mag capacity limit of 3.715". But again, all this for 2-4ish grains of powder room.

    I would still like to see a pic if someone has these rounds.

    And to the point on brass - adg makes brass for PRC and nosler so whenever it is in stock, this should be moot.
     

    Schw15

    Longrange
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Jul 21, 2019
    3,651
    797
    Colorado
    My buddy had a 30 sherman shot it just enough to fireform brass. I ended up with it and actually sold it on a whim without even putting the barrel on. The guy who bought it we talk and he seems to really like it 2930ish I think 250 a-tip rl33 28 inch bartlein barrel. I got the itch for a new cal and just pulled the trigger on a 30 nosler it will be throated to my dummy rounds. Looking at the two the biggest selling point for me was I didn't have to blow out any brass like the 30 sherman and the 30 nosler was cheaper overall to get everything. I can say I fell in love with the case design but it will be 3 months or more easily til I get my barrel. Now I had a 28 nosler a few years ago for hunting on a tenacity with cip mags and had no issues with feeding.
     

    Sterlingb06

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 11, 2020
    164
    24
    Yeah I just chalk up the fire forming of 100 rounds to watching the barrel speed up and find some good lower velocity nodes, finding a decent seating depth then stretching it's legs for indications on it's general accuracy.

    Hate to "waste" barrel life and components but should be able to hit the ground running on the higher nodes with a decent amount of info by then.

    Any guesses in barrel life of SM vs nosler? Also, who did he get to chamber the bartlein?
     

    Schw15

    Longrange
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Jul 21, 2019
    3,651
    797
    Colorado
    It was straight jacket who did the barrel. Yes I agree I just had so many ackleys before I got tired of messing with that part. As far as barrel life I don't have any idea sherman has said 1800 in the past. I'm guessing 1300 to 1500 for my 30 nosler but basing it off of 300 win mag and the extra powder ect. But that is no science behind that guess haha
     

    Steel head

    Feral kitten
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Aug 3, 2014
    18,153
    58,312
    Washington
    Yeah I just chalk up the fire forming of 100 rounds to watching the barrel speed up and find some good lower velocity nodes, finding a decent seating depth then stretching it's legs for indications on it's general accuracy.

    Hate to "waste" barrel life and components but should be able to hit the ground running on the higher nodes with a decent amount of info by then.

    Any guesses in barrel life of SM vs nosler? Also, who did he get to chamber the bartlein?
    I always enjoy shooting the fire form loads and barrel speed up shots smacking steel at distance.

    They always shoot pretty good and you get a good idea of how it’s speeding up.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: TreyMeTrey

    TreyMeTrey

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jun 6, 2018
    141
    35
    Its probably late to comment but i will anyway.I started out with the 300 PRC shooting in ELR King of 1 Mile & King Of 2 Mile Matches.I love it. I shoot in Light Gun Class.I just started in it.Only5 Matches total. However I shot the 300 PRC at 1000 yards quite a bit and a 6.5 PRC & 7 SAUM.
    Ok After shooting with my partner in ELR that shoots a e33XC and 30 Sherman Mag I decided to turn my newcustom 300 PRC into a 30 Sherman because my friend was getting 150+ FPS more with his 30 SM than me with my 300 PRC..My 300 PRC is running a Hornady 250gr A-Tip at 2805 fps.. So with a 30 Sherman Idget abot 2950 with a Hornady 250gr A-Tip as my friend. And I didnt need 2 300 PRC's at same time. With more powder I can get more speed out of my 300 PRC if I hammer on it at 79.5 tom80.0grs of H1000 vs my 78.5 grains of H1000..I'd like it to last a little while....LOL
    My 30 SM also has a 29.5 inch Bartlein Left Hand Gain Twist barrel. My other 300 PRC is a Savage 110 Elite 30 inch barrel..I absolutely love it.I never thought I'd like a Savage..But I do.
    I just built a 375 Cheytac for Heavy Class with a Stiller Tac Driver action, a Mcrees chassis,K&P 35inch barrel,Trigger Tech Diamond trigger ..Its shooting at 3010 fps with a 427gr Cutting Edge bullet currently...Its speeding up now.It only has 46 Rounds down the tube.It should level out about 150 rounds Id say. Ive never had or shot a 375 Chetac prior to this one so its all new to me..I sure dont understand why there isnt 375 Cheytac Load data in these books.Its not like its a brand new round..And our Military now has a contract to use it.Thats one draw back on brass being so hard to get now.
    Also Im sure considering a 33XC build for light Class.. This round Is Top Dog in the Light Class Division..I justbuilt several rifles and Im running out of room.LOL. I was lookingb at the Savage 112 action in 338 LM fora donor rifle for the 33XC. Ican get one for about $950. or a Stiller for $1350. I just thought Id play with the Savage 112 338 LM a bit before I rebarrel it.
    The 300 Normma Mag as is the 30 Nosler & is also a good choice in a 30 Cal for ELR in my opinion.
     
    Last edited:

    CA48

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 17, 2010
    121
    47
    Texas
    I have a 30SM, it pushes 215s 2950 in a proof cf 20” barrel with n570. I know of 2 other 20” 30 noslers pushing ~2975 with 215s and n570. The 300prc 225 eld m factory ammo shot terrible in my gun. I even tuned the seating depth on the factory 225s and they still shot bad. The 212 eld x factory ammo shot ok as is, but I reload so it doesn’t really matter to me. I like the 30SM and have no complaints but when I rebarrel I may just go with the 30nosler. 30 Nosler is the easy button if you want a little more velocity than the PRC and adg brass is good. With the 30SM you have adg and lapua but I have not tryed lapua because Rich set up the reamer and dies around adg brass.

    As requested by the op here is a non labeled pic, although it’s easy to tell. 30-28 Nosler, 30 Nosler, 30SM, 300PRC with 215s

    0975C785-6710-4B36-8B79-78854CD75AA9.jpeg
     
    • Like
    Reactions: TreyMeTrey

    TreyMeTrey

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jun 6, 2018
    141
    35
    Thank you.
    I don't shoot anything but 250gr A Tips
    They are a high BC and I've got a great hook up on them real cheap.
    I have considered the Nosler too.It is another faster choice.Thank you.
    I have the new 30 Sherman Mag reamer and dies so it's set.
    Also I decided this morning to build a 33XC .lol Always need an extra toy..lol
    After shoting in the last 5 of 6 ELR King of 1 Mile and King of 2 Mile matches I've seen in the Light Gun division that the Top Dog is a 33XC h ands down.So I ordered another Stiller Action to build it on.Ive got 4 Stiller Actions and have had good luck with them from my Stiller Scout in 6mm ARC To my Stiller Tac Driver in 375 Cheytac .,and Stiller Predator
    Thank you for your reply.
     
    Last edited:
    • Like
    Reactions: CA48

    4O6shootist

    It was the wind!
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Sep 5, 2021
    1,113
    613
    Montana
    30SM is the 300prc with 90k Richard S max psi rating. You gain what 2-3 grain powder on a case that already holds 93gr water capacity. 3% powder cap equates into 1% velocity gain at SAME pressure. ADG fireformed 30 nosler holds 101gr water, so it has 6gr capacity edge over 30SM. Equal pressure, proper freebore with same bullet/powder: 300prc<30SM<30 Nosler.