300 black out question

[Herd Thinner]

Ok I have an AAC 300 black upper 16" barrell set on a sig lower. That being said I was toying with the idea of buying a JP Enterprises Buffer Spring to lesson the sound. With that I was informed to change the gas system and make it adjustable. Please school me on this topic.

 

[Heretic]

All About Adjustable AR Gas Blocks | AllOutdoor.com

 

[rjacobs]

Maybe it's me but I've never had issues with my buffer springs making noise. And if I did I wouldn't care anyway since its not like anybody else but the shooter can hear it. The silent capture spring won't make the gun shoot any quieter.

The silent capture spring setup can be used with a non adjustable gas system but might need the spring pack to tune for proper function.

 

[Regalkismet]

Maybe it's me but I've never had issues with my buffer springs making noise. And if I did I wouldn't care anyway since its not like anybody else but the shooter can hear it. The silent capture spring won't make the gun shoot any quieter.

The silent capture spring setup can be used with a non adjustable gas system but might need the spring pack to tune for proper function.

It takes the sprong noise out, if shooting a Suppressed 300 Bo it is probably pretty noticable... The main benefit is that it really smoothes out the recoil pulse...I don't know why but I use to really hate when carrying my rifle the feeling and sound of the movement of the weights inside the buffer... Obviously that is gone with the JP SCS ... Clearly that is just a personal annoyance but when stalk hunting I don't have to worry about that extra noise if I shift my rifle

 

[Oryx]

Put a little grease on the spring and it will quiet it down

 

[MarkCO]

If you are going to adjust it and set it hard, then it can be a decent band-aid. Sans the Noveske switch block, adjustable gas blocks really are not. You can work a tune, but shoot a few thousand rounds and go to adjust them and you will see the problems.

The JP SCS is kind of cool, but the bolt hitting the rear and the going back in battery is louder than any spring noise ever will be. JP sells a Tubbs type spring that makes less noise hand cycling.

If you want to go from suppressed to super-sonic, set up the gun for what you will run the most and band-aid it with spring rate, buffer weight or carrier for the other load. In the long run, less $, more versatile and much less headache.

 

[Danny25]

I haven't used the JP SCS but I have seen a lot of good reviews on it. It's probably a good idea to also get the spring kit to tune it to your load. Also if your looking for an adjustable gas block, I would take a look at the SLR. I looks very well designed, quite easy to tune and adjust to your needs.

Sentry 7 Set Screw Premium Adjustable Gas Block

 

[Regalkismet]

I definitely agree either a Syrac or SLR gas block... Only ones I use... Just bought the new SLR Sentry.... Really nice gb.

 

[Regalkismet]

If you are going to adjust it and set it hard, then it can be a decent band-aid. Sans the Noveske switch block, adjustable gas blocks really are not. You can work a tune, but shoot a few thousand rounds and go to adjust them and you will see the problems.

The JP SCS is kind of cool, but the bolt hitting the rear and the going back in battery is louder than any spring noise ever will be. JP sells a Tubbs type spring that makes less noise hand cycling.

If you want to go from suppressed to super-sonic, set up the gun for what you will run the most and band-aid it with spring rate, buffer weight or carrier for the other load. In the long run, less $, more versatile and much less headache.

The reduction in spring noise is a benefit, but it's designed to smooth out the recoil impulse and be tunable as well as easily removable with no Detent to deal with... Especially nice when using an adjustable gas block....

 

[MarkCO]

The reduction in spring noise is a benefit, but it's designed to smooth out the recoil impulse and be tunable as well as easily removable with no Detent to deal with... Especially nice when using an adjustable gas block....

I know what it is meant to do. I had one of the very first ones ever made and another since. I don't run a buffer tube retainer in my ARs, too prone to breakage. There are lots of ways to tune and the SCS is but one, but it is no smoother than a buffer tube system. In a .308 or something like a .450BM, it is a very good choice.

 

[rjacobs]

It takes the sprong noise out, if shooting a Suppressed 300 Bo it is probably pretty noticable... The main benefit is that it really smoothes out the recoil pulse...I don't know why but I use to really hate when carrying my rifle the feeling and sound of the movement of the weights inside the buffer... Obviously that is gone with the JP SCS ... Clearly that is just a personal annoyance but when stalk hunting I don't have to worry about that extra noise if I shift my rifle

Well aware of what it is and what it is not. I run one in an SPR with a light weight carrier and adjustable gas. Ive shot countless thousands of subsonic suppressed 300BLK through a gun with a normal GI spring and H2 buffer. Again, spring noise to me, on my guns, is basically non existent, or I just dont notice it.

 

[graewolf]

FWIW - I have 16" 300BO barrel on my AR, no adjustable gas block - and a JP buffer without many issues. I have occaisionally had it not pick up the next round in the mag but only 2-3x at most. Once the can comes in and goes on that problem will be eliminated.

 

[Regalkismet]

I know what it is meant to do. I had one of the very first ones ever made and another since. I don't run a buffer tube retainer in my ARs, too prone to breakage. There are lots of ways to tune and the SCS is but one, but it is no smoother than a buffer tube system. In a .308 or something like a .450BM, it is a very good choice.

I have 5 of them on a variety of calibers, and had one of the very first ones as well, actually got one from the first batch made before they were sold out and established a waiting list.... I previously used slashes heavy buffers which worked well too... So I'm very well versed on what they do and don't do... I do wonder that if you felt that they didn't offer any advantage or reduce noise why you would buy another? These Springs are definitely smoother than a typical buffer/spring combination. Whether the improvement is significant enough for the user is a personal opinion. The proper way to tune an AR is with an adjustable gas block.... Yes Springs and buffers will work and therefore an option but the best way is by adjusting the gas....JP designed these with different Springs for those without adjustable gas blocks or for those with extreme operating parameters for finer tuning. Are the advantages worth it to you? Maybe not.... Are they necessary.... Absolutely not... But IMHO they are worth it, especially considering they were not much more of a cost then my slashes buffers & Springs. Adjustable gas blocks are not necessary either but after using them I wouldn't build an AR without one... I run either Syrac's or SLR gas blocks on all my rifles. Are they worth it even though there are adjustable gas blocks at half the price? Well if you ask most that have used them they will tell you yes... But I enjoy getting the most out of my rifle as possible.... Especially when it comes to recoil.

 

[Regalkismet]

Again the primary advantage is not just the spring noise but the culmination of several things... Smoother operation, less noise, easier maintenance, and very adjustable for tuning.

 

[OKCorey]

For what it is worth I put the JP lmos carrier, spring & buffer in my rifle with non-adjustable gas. It runs great the JP parts cycled much smoother & quieter than the factory parts did in my rifle.
For lubrication I always put some powder graphite in the buffer tube as well as in the extended tube for my shotgun.
Many people (including top 3gunners) like adjustable gas but I just see adjustable as one more thing to go wrong.
If you go to a local three gun match it seems there is at least one person with gas issues.

 

[MarkCO]

...I do wonder that if you felt that they didn't offer any advantage or reduce noise why you would buy another?...The proper way to tune an AR is with an adjustable gas block.... Yes Springs and buffers will work and therefore an option but the best way is by adjusting the gas....

On heavy recoiling ARs, properly tuned, they do noticeably affect the recoil impulse so that you really only feel 2 of the 4 impulses. Would not run a .308 without one. Most people don't even feel 2 impulses on a .223, much less 3 or 4. That is where they are advantageous, heavy recoil. I use the .308 spring on the SCS in my .450BM. The smaller diameter spring has some benefits that you just can not get with the stock diameter springs, even in the XP versions. Those advantages are mitigated on the .223 since the energy level is so much less.

As for the "proper" way to tune an AR being an adjustable gas block, that is not true. If you have an AR that was not built over gassed in the first place and needs to be tuned, then yes, that is a viable option. However, adjustable gas blocks are a failure point some of us choose not to deal with. Except the Noveske, they have have very real failure points, especially if you try to adjust them. I had high hopes for the Syrac, but I have replaced and or repaired way too many in the last few months to rely on one. Before JP started using them, I had several conversations with Jason and considered using his design, but they did not pass muster in long term testing.

I have had two identical rifles side by side, one with a tuned SCS and one with a tuned buffer and spring. I had a group of people shoot them. Not a single person could tell which one had a SCS and which one had a buffer and spring, from shooting them. When they racked them by hand after shooting both, they could tell, and that was the only way. As far as adjustable for tuning, I can tune a buffer and spring in less time than the SCS. The torch and locktite take some time to make a spring switch. Is it a good design? Yes. Does it offer advantage over the separate spring and buffer in a .223 AR, probably not.

I love JP parts and have tremendous respect for the man and the company. I use their parts in my personal rifles and in uppers I sell as well.

 

[Regalkismet]

I have never heard any respected gunsmith or manufacturer of high end rifles say anything except that an adjustable gas block IS the PROPER & MOST effective way to correct gas issues... Including JP, GAP, LWRC etc... So I'm sorry I have to respectfully disagree as you completely lost me there... As far as reliability, any part can and will eventually fail... Even a basic buffer spring.... Most high end Gas blocks like Syrac and SLR are very reliable....And even if they have an issue it's usually carbon build up around the adjustment screw from not being moved for prolonged length of time/round count, making additional adjustments difficult, however, the rifle and gas block still functions. It just requires carbon to be removed for further adjustment.

 

[rjacobs]

The proper way to tune an AR15 is to start with a properly drilled gas port for the setup you will run 99% of the time.

The biggest issue with AR's though is that one builder "tunes" their gas port to run with a specific ammo and another maybe tunes to always run suppressed. This is generally done with how they drill the gas port. A builder that wants his guns to run on the widest array of ammo so that he doesnt have customers coming back and saying "my gun dont run on Wolf" they drill that sucker big. Now there are 2 ways to make the gun run right: springs and buffers or adjustable gas. I was taught(by old school guys that were building and shooting AR's before AR's were cool) that springs and buffers was the "correct" way to tune, and I still believe that, even though I am running adjustable gas on one gun. On my SPR I just built I am running adjustable gas for two reasons: running JP silent capture spring and light weight carrier so I need to turn the gas down to get it to run right and because I will be running suppressed and, again, want to have a setting for suppressed usage without beating the shit out of the gun. So in that gun, adjustable gas is the "correct" way to tune the gun. BUT to be fair if I could have spec'd the gas port size I would have rather spec'd a small gas port, BUT I dont have enough money to start testing gas port sizes for my setup running my ammo to come up with the "proper" gas port size. In most guns however, swapping buffers and springs is IMO the proper way to tune the gun.

Your argument of these guys using adjustable gas for tuning doesnt quite work out:
JP guns are running their silent capture spring most of the time(although to be fair I have only played with 2). Best way to tune that is with adjustable gas.
GAP-10's using adjustable gas isnt really adjustable its a switch block which for proper "tuning" you have to send them your can. I dont count switch blocks as adjustable gas personally.
LWRC is a piston company and every piston gun I have ever seen has been adjustable.

 

[Regalkismet]

Actually most JP rifles probably use the LMOS with an adjustable gas block which is a traditional spring and buffer system, a switch block IS a 3 position adjustable gas block(to say it's not just makes my point) and you said it yourself you send them your can.....So I'm not following how that supports your conclusion....Springs and buffers band aid the situation to varying degrees and adjustable gas blocks correct it, especially if you plan on tuning to different types of ammunition on the same gun. Honestly I'm stupefied you would say a gas block isn't the best way to tune a rifle....Clearly drilling gas ports isn't realistic especially if you are indeed trying to get the most out of your rifle, shoot different types of ammunition or will be shooting Suppressed and unsuppressed. Now I'm not saying heavy buffers and Springs don't work well but if you are seriously tuning a rifle or want the best way to correct gas issues an adjustable gas block is it. Honestly I'm going to try not to reply in this thread any further because it's off topic and anyone that actually cares can ask a reputable AR builder/Smith or research for themselves.