300wsm out to1800yds?????

[FamilyMan]

Am i chasing a ghost or is this doable? or better stated doable on a consistent basis? and i am not talking about small groups or any pipe dream but does/can it have the necessary trajectory to get out there and be considered a 1800yd gun?
I know there are much better calibers for this but i built a 300wsm hunting rig and then came across a good priced heavy profile target rig and said what they heck. i am only sticking with it because I already have all the parts and components to load for it. just want to know what capable. this is my first venture into the magnums and ELR so forgive my ignorance. just 8 mos ago i thought 1000 was barely possible!!

 

[ajwcotton]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

Absolutely my 23" WSM spits 208 Amax at 2830
At sea level that will go subsonic around 1400y, however the 208 has been transitioning well to SS for me.
JBM indicates at sea level and standard atmosphere that the drop for 1800 is 24.5 mils It would just about max out my S&B but it can be done without holdovers. I have shot out to 1600y with mine and it did a lot better than I thought.
Oh yeah and there is a 3.5 second flight time so enjoy that.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FamilyMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but does/can it have the necessary trajectory to get out there and be considered a 1800yd gun?
</div></div>
There seems to be a trend to run the heaviest bullet available to shoot distance. Scale back to a 175 and you should have the speed and trajctory to get there. Does that make it a 1800 yard gun, not in my eyes. Guys shoot 6.5's to a mile with 40 grains less bullet weight, doesn't make their guns mile guns.
I've shot my 7mm saum's to 1850, I don't even consider them to be mile guns, 1650, maybe.
IMHO, if you want to consider whether a gun is certain distance gun, you need to be able to pull up to where you're going to shoot and make a first round, cold bore hit at that distance at least 3 out 5 times.
Let's don't even discuss shooting game over 1k, OK?

 

[blksno]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's don't even discuss shooting game over 1k, OK? </div></div>

I've taken my 24" 300 SAUM AR10 to 1760 on 13" steel...consistently, no. But often enough to know it's not a fluke.
Took my antelope at 930 in a nice, mild 3mph wind with ease and have no doubts in my ability to take game beyond 1k with it.

I/We shoot daily from 400-1150 out the back door from where I hunt...so getting accurate dope is key.

I'd not take that shot on game with adverse wind though. I understand the limits of my system and skill.


I crunched the numbers on my person rig with 210, 190 and 185 VLDs and the difference in wind drift with a 10mph wind from 3 o'Clock was less than 1 moa...while the difference in drop was closer to 7 moa.

I chose the middle of the road and now run 190 Vlds at 2915.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

C-Bass,
By qouting me I take it you did not look favorably on my comment. I respect that.
It was talking to the op for the most part. I have no doubt you're capable of taking game at 1k or beyond. I read the SD members thread quite a bit, it's always front page. And know most of you guys take your range time seriously, which is good.

Say for my bullet selection I was just trying to show that maybe a lighter bullet wouldn't have to go throught the trans-sonic into sub-sonic transition. The 10ft drop really shouln't matter considering the bullet is already 100ft in the air!
Where I'm located the antelope is considered more of a nuisance than a game animal, feel free to try the mile shot.

 

[ajwcotton]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

The only thing that I don't like about using a lighter and faster bullet is the down range energy.
I just ran a comparison between the 208 at my 2830 and a 175 berger VLD at 3100 through JBM and the 208 has less drop and drift as well as more energy and higher velocity beyond 700y.
Will they both get there yes the heavier bullet will do it easier.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

If you run those two bullets at the same velocity, of course the heavier one is going to shine. The 175 should run 150fps faster.

 

[ajwcotton]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

sorry I forgot to put what I had the 175 at I edited it but not before you posted.

 

[varmint slayer]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The 10ft drop really shouln't matter considering the bullet is already 100ft in the air!</div></div>

Max Ordinate for a 208 grain bullet going 2830 FPS, 4600 alt, on a 1800 yard target, on a perfectly flat range is only about 36ft...long way from 100ft. Even at sea level it's still only roughly 45ft.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

VS,
Apparently we use different programs.
I used a 175, bc .600, 3000fps, DA of 6200, normal for here, 1253 inches total drop from bore. Divided by 12=104 feet.

 

[varmint slayer]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

Milo, even with the load and conditions you are using, the bullet only ever reaches a maximum height above the ground of 35ft. The number you are calculating is the just the angle of departure for for an 1800 trajectory which your math is right, just using the wrong numbers. That is not how how the bullet actually gets above the ground. A simple and easy way to find Max Ordinate is to just make you zero in your software the distance you are shooting (1800) and then just find the point where the inches is the most and and convert that into feet. It will also show you the yardage max ordinate is happening.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

I'm going to have to disagree. Even at 1k it's close to 20 ft off the ground, other wise the bullet trace would stay in your spotting scope, without going out and coming back in.
Exbal says trajectory of bullet is 1192 inches at 1800, with 100 yard zero.
Wind traj at 1800, 202 inches at 10mph, that's 16 feet. That sounds right, so I believe the hieght.
We'll fight later, I'm going to DQ for ice cream!

 

[varmint slayer]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

https://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3299838

Read this. It explains it a little better. Not fighting BTW. Just a discussion.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

OK I read it, not sure I understand it, but Kraig's estimates pretty much prove I'm right. 2000 yard target, 1000 yd ord of 33.4 yards, = 100+ feet, and the max ord should be farther out than 1k, so even higher.

My take, your video of shooting 1 mile, say 100 yard zero, without reticle holdover, or dialing your dope, you will come closer to the target holding 100 feet over it than you will holding 35 feet over. Now I realize that would tough to figure out without having a crane there with a 100ft tape hanging from it, but.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ajwcotton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sorry I forgot to put what I had the 175 at I edited it but not before you posted. </div></div>
Sorry Aj,
I just assumed that a 30 cal 175 would have a bc comparable to a 7mm, not so I guess and you are right on what you posted.
I was only trying to demonstrate velocity diff's and not going subsonic. Some bullets do extremely well, others not so.

 

[varmint slayer]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

Max ord is roughly half the distance plus 10%.

Take the DOPES from the two distances...say 77.1 MOA for 2000yds and subtract 26.3 MOA for 1100yds. So 50.8 MOA over the line of sight is roughly the max ord.

77.1-22.6=50.8 MOA
2000 yards / 2 x %10=1100 yards rough max ord
50.8 MOA x 11 x 1.047= 585.6 inches
585.6 / 12= 48.75 ft above line of sight at 1100 yards which is approximately the max ord. Ballistic calc shows its actually more like 1175 yards but close enough.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

You have no buy in from me.

 

[varmint slayer]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have no buy in from me.</div></div>

So your saying you don't believe the math I posted then?

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

I calculated like Kraig, using mils, numbers were slightly higher than yours, but no where near what my numbers were.
I'm having a harder time wrapping my brain around it.
50 moa at 2k, moa=20" is still 1000 inches.
I'll bow out.
Someone else chimed in, I'm going off drop from bore, after 1000 yards the drop excellerates 5 times faster to 2000 yards. 2.5 degree angle drop seems a liitle low to me.

 

[varmint slayer]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

Ok let me try to explain it again.

You are right about having to aim or holdover a target @ 2K yards by 77.1 MOA which @ 2K yards is 1614 inches or 134.5 feet above the target. What I am saying and what you are misunderstanding is that even though you are essentially aiming 134 feet over the target, the bullet only reaches a max ordinance (highest point in the trajectory) if 48.75 feet at 1170 yards. After that point it is no long climbing and is now headed down towards the ground and eventually lands back at ground level or wherever your target is at 2K yards. So my statement of the bullet never gets to 100 ft above the ground is true.

That help?

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

OK,
I concede, think we hijacked this thread?

 

[varmint slayer]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK,
I concede, think we hijacked this thread?</div></div>

Only a little...

But at least maybe others learned something as well. Not a wasteful hijack but a hijack nonetheless.

 

[FamilyMan]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

Definitely hijacked but i have been following this intently and learning some cool info, so it was well worth it and the question was pretty well answered in the first couple posts. I plan on starting with 190smk and 195 hdy HPBT match cause the rifle came with 300 of em. Previous owner said he tried 208 Amax but didn't get the results he was looking for. But I think he only tried 1 type of powder. Then I was thinking the 175smk next or jumping over to the Berger in the 185-195 range. Either way t will be fun and a good learning exp.

Another question, is a 30 MOA base overkill if I'm running a bushnell elite tactical 6-24 mil/mil ? I believe they have right around 18-19 mil of total adjustment. I usually run 20moa on all my other stuff but in my infinite (don't have a clue) wisdom I figured I would need 30 MOA since I have a scope on the low side of total adj and wanting to push out well past 1000. I have read before that when setting them up like this(bottomed out) one should dial in elevation to relieve tension on the erector springs when not in use . Is that true?
Thanks again for the lessons on max ord.

 

[varmint slayer]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

The 190 SMK is a good choice. It should serve you well no doubt but I would definitely try the 208 AMAX again.

 

[ajwcotton]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

The 190 smk is a good bullet to start loading for this. You can probably get it to 2950-3000 fps wich will still yeild great results. I suggest looking into h4831 for powder. Especially since apparently no one really uses it. It has been in stock pretty much everywhere.
Good luck.

 

[FamilyMan]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

Any thoughts or advice on the 30 MOA base?

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

FamilyMan, I believe you should be able to make 1800 yards with good results, but keep expectations realistic considering wind drift at that distance. Being in Utah, elevation is in your favor.

I've shot my 30-06 to a mile a few times. Launching a 208gr AMax at 2720 fps, it takes 74-75 moa on average. At that distance it can vary day to day depending on temp, etc.

Your 300WSM should easily exceed the ballistics I get with the 30-06.

For best results, look at the 200+ grain high BC bullets. 208 AMax, 210 Berger, 215 Berger, 225 Hornady, 230 Berger will be among the best options for drop, drift, retained velocity, and retained energy at 1800 yards.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

The 300WSM is capable of slinging the 208gr. AMAX at a bit over 2900fps, with that it should almost reach a mile before going subsonic. My long range load that I am currently testing is the 230gr. OTM hybrids at 2730fps, I've taken it out to 800 with spectacular results and am now waiting to try them at very long range, should be able to reach a mile with authority.

 

[FamilyMan]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

Thanks for all the feedback guys I really appreciate it. I just picked up some 208Amax's so I can try those again with some h4831sc.
Powders I have to try for load testing are
H4350
H1000 (don't know yet if this can be used but listed it any ways.)
IMR 4350
H4831sc

Any others you recommend? Not that I would be able to find it to try!!!!
But 1lb cans have been a little more readily available around here lately

 

[rusty815]

Re: 300wsm out to1800yds?????

If you want to go long range, velocity is of the utmost importance, so the three I would try are Reloader 17, Magpro, and H4831SC in that order for max velocity. The most consistent is definitely H4831, but you will most likely get more velocity out of the other two.

EDIT: Just looked on Hodgdons site, andit seems Winchester Supreme 780 is a good pick as well, never tried it, so I don't know exactly how it performs.

 

[phreakmode]

Not exactly what you are asking, but I have made solid hits at 1600 yards with a RSAUM shooting 178gr HPBTs at a tad over 3000fps, I am limited in what my rifle can kick out due to twist and a 20" factory barrel. If I could run 208s at 2900 fps it would open up a whole new world of consistent performance at those ranges.

 

[FamilyMan]

If you want to go long range, velocity is of the utmost importance, so the three I would try are Reloader 17, Magpro, and H4831SC in that order for max velocity. The most consistent is definitely H4831, but you will most likely get more velocity out of the other two.

EDIT: Just looked on Hodgdons site, andit seems Winchester Supreme 780 is a good pick as well, never tried it, so I don't know exactly how it performs.

I have some 4831sc I am gonna try but haven't been able to find any RL17 but today found a stash of Win supreme 780 so I am gonna give it a whirl.

 

[tpichevy]

Keep us posted on how you like the win 780 I'm interested in this powder.... Can't find much info about it vs say h1000, ratumbo ect

 

[wilbur300wsm]

a lot of guys here in pa run h4350 with the 210 bergers or jlk's. through a custom barrel such as kreiger, bartlein, or broughton, this powder wins a lot of matches with the wsm case. 61grs to 63grs is where guys are finding success. 3" and 4" groups at 1k at williamsport 1000 yrd matches. we've shot the combo out to 3500+yrds at prairrie dogs.

 

[MMH]

I like your 'Major League Coyote Hunter' emblem.