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308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

S

Severian

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 6, 2008
6
0
Orange County, Ca
Good Afternoon Everyone,

Ideally I would pickup an 5.56 AR and then a 308 bolt action, however due to costs as well as trying to standardize the ammo I will need to keep on hand; I am trying to determine if a 308 AR will cover both for me. Will a 308 AR be accurate from 600-800 yards? or is that stretching what is realistic?

Sev
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

A semi .308 will be as accurate as the shooter and it's not uncommon for them to be accurate out to 1000yds. Buy once, cry once. Spend your money on a GAP-10 or a gas piston setup, whichever you prefer, and it will be money well spent.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

It really depends on what you want to do with your gun. If you want a 5.56 for self-defense and "just in case", the .308 AR may not quite fit that bill. Its harder to stock up on, doesn't make as good of a plinker, and weighs a ton more. Also if you're going to use FMJs, the 5.56 will have better terminal performance than 7.62 at short-range. This flips for extended ranges.

Without a doubt, a GOOD .308 AR will get you to 800. At the same time, though, depending on what your 800 shooting is, you may be well-served with a 5.56 SPR or RECCE style AR. Shooting 77s, the ARs can reach out there fairly well.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DAFAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">does the gap ar10 use the dpms or armalite lower? </div></div>

The GAP AR 10 uses an Armalite pattern. The newer GAP 10 uses a DPMS pattern.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

The heavy 556 projectiles do great at range. I have not taken them farther than 500, but I can say for sure they do well out to there. Other people regularly shoot them further. Something along those lines might be a decent compromise?

That said, it is no ar10 lol. I shoot a gap10 and it does very well out to 500ish yards. It will do better further out, but I have not gotten to stretch out anymore than that. Mine is one of the older ones with the ar10 pattern mags. I like it alot. If you snagged one of those you would not be unhappy.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

In my opinion it all depends upon what you're trying to accomplish. I wouldn't shoot my 5.56 out to 800, but would with my .308. With that being said, it's not a bad idea to start out with the 5.56 and eventually add a .308 down the road. Don't buy cheap and make sure you're fairly certain of the round count if you buy a used weapon. Good luck!
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

Honestly I enjoy shooting my 223 AR's more than 308. No recoil, accurate, lightweight, cheap cheap cheap.

If you want to learn the fundamentals of long range shooting type of thing a 308 bolt gun is more appropriate as well. For example I know of a couple different long range clubs/orgs in Socal who would be glad to teach you how to "reach out there" to 1k+ but they don't allow gas guns...
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 331V8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The heavy 556 projectiles do great at range. I have not taken them farther than 500, but I can say for sure they do well out to there.</div></div>

I've shot 223 heavis at 600 plenty of times they work fine mag fed. After that not so much...
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

Just check the ballistics calculators like JBM and you will see the big difference in a 308 vs 223. However, not sure what your purpose is for either gun but neither one of them unless you are using the right ammo and have a clean background can be used for self defense in a house as the round will penetrate the target and start going god knows where.

Can't fo wrong with a 308...thats what I did..I standardized all my AR type weapons on 308 to save on ammo costs and it really does make a difference. Especially if you plan on adding a 308 bolt gun to your collection.

If money is no object then go out and get a 5.56 and a .308 plus a bolt gun and call it a day. Then you can spend the rest of your time playing with different loads and the endless optics, lights and even lasers selections if you want to trick it out.

I am in the process myself of standardizing all my handguns to 45acp to keep ammo $ down. 357sig is just way to expensive to shoot in large quantities.

Good luck.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

The smartest thing you can do is buy the .308 AR. It will do almost everything accuracy wise a bolt gun will now due to the refinement of the platform as well as tighter tolerances...NOTE I said ALMOST.

Where the difference is in the follow up shots.they are much faster in this regard with the average shooter behind them.

The downfall is that .308 ammo is a bit more expensive than the .223
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

Hard choice, seems like I ran into this same question a while back but it was about dirt bikes, race a 250 4stroke or a 450 4stroke. 250 being the 223 and 450 the 308. needless to say I ended up with both. Expensive hobby we ended up here fellas. good luck with your decision.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It really depends on what you want to do with your gun. If you want a 5.56 for self-defense and "just in case", the .308 AR may not quite fit that bill. Its harder to stock up on, doesn't make as good of a plinker, and weighs a ton more. Also if you're going to use FMJs, the 5.56 will have better terminal performance than 7.62 at short-range. This flips for extended ranges.

Without a doubt, a GOOD .308 AR will get you to 800. At the same time, though, depending on what your 800 shooting is, you may be well-served with a 5.56 SPR or RECCE style AR. Shooting 77s, the ARs can reach out there fairly well. </div></div>

This is pretty solid advice. 308's are pricey to stock up on for a semi auto platform and a worthy 308 ar is the price of a great 556 at and r700. Id look into a noveske n4 and a used, but upgraded 700. Buy a combo of cheap and match ammo for the n4 and match for the 700.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

First off, thank you everyone for the replies. So I should expand upon the goal for the weapon.

1. AR style weapon for self-defense if needed, and heck semi auto carbines are just fun.
2. Bolt action 308 because my ultimate goal is to learn long range shooting as a hobby. (if I decide to go with a bolt action I would love to find a club and get to 1000-1200+ if I can train myself to be a good enough shooter)

Of the two goals above number two is the more important to me, I have a shotgun and pistol if it comes down to it for defense, and lets be honest I hope I never end up having to use either for that purpose.

So it sounds like I should just go for a nice 308. My budget is between $3000 and $4000, I could go a little higher if I had to, but it would have to be a significant improvement at that point for me to justify it. Ideally if I got a bolt action, I would pickup the materials to load/reload my own ammo since from what I have researched it doesn't seem too hard. To this point in my shooting experience it just hasn't been worth it (9mm,22lr,12g).

I am curious if you don't mind as to the experience mentioned here:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you want a 5.56 for self-defense and "just in case", the .308 AR may not quite fit that bill. Its harder to stock up on, doesn't make as good of a plinker, and weighs a ton more. Also if you're going to use FMJs, the 5.56 will have better terminal performance than 7.62 at short-range.
</div></div>
So in summation a AR 308 wont really meet the goal of number one listed above?

Sev
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

Its funny how in the OP you said cost is an issue and in your next post you say your looking to spend $3-4000+

With that kind of budget I'd go for the AR15 and a bolt action
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Severian</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good Afternoon Everyone,

Will a 308 AR be accurate from 600-800 yards? or is that stretching what is realistic?

Sev </div></div>Hard to believe anyone could be a member here since 2008 and have to ask that question. Any gun in 308 that shoots sub MOA can be accurate to those distances given the shooter is also capable. There are and have been for a while, AR based 308's that will do what you are asking and there are dozens of threads here talking about them with pictures and videos.

LMT MWS .308

GAP-10

Noveske, KAC, POF, Larue OBR, PWS, Armalite...
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its funny how in the OP you said cost is an issue and in your next post you say your looking to spend $3-4000+

With that kind of budget I'd go for the AR15 and a bolt action </div></div>
The reason is I don't want to buy low quality guns, if I bought a nice bolt action from what I've seen it will be at least 3-4k with a decent scope. Even a mid-range AR15 would be $1700 or so. Plus the best price I've been able to find for 308 ammo is around $3 dollars a round. To get reasonably good I am assuming it will take hundreds or thousands of rounds of practice.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

Thank you Red, that site is cheaper on ammo than any I've seen.

To your earlier question, I registered in 08, followed the site for a number of months lurking. Then I haven't been to the site for over a year, I just started reading and catching up since I have the money to finally get a rifle.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

I figured it was something like that. You can get FGMM 168 grain 308's for around $20 per box of 20 and FGMM 175's for a few dollars more but I'd go with one of the site vendors like Copper Creek, Southwest, USAammo and McCourt.

If you go with an AR type 308 I hear these guys make a great load for them, called the "Gas Gun" load.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">CopperCreekAmmo.com</span>

I plan on trying some soon
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Severian</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Even a mid-range AR15 would be $1700 or so... </div></div>

$1700 is an expensive AR but anyways...I see where your coming from

I'd go with a POF or LWRC REPR over the GAP or the LMT because I prefer piston's instead of DI's.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

Palmetto State Armory is also a Hide vendor and they have the FGMM 175gr .308 for $18.99/box.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

I've been shooting an AR .308 and for Christmas, we gave my father-in-law a .308 bolt action. We were shooting the day after Christmas and I moved over from my AR to his Bolt Action. I guess I wasn't thinking about the difference. First shot and I got my safety glasses rammed up the bridge of my nose by the scope. The AR is much easier to shot. Hardly any recoild compared to a bolt action. That will have an affect on accuracy after a few shots.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Palmetto State Armory is also a Hide vendor and they have the FGMM 175gr .308 for $18.99/box. </div></div> I forgot them and thats a good price.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: typhoon186</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....That will have an affect on accuracy after a few shots.</div></div>

You must be flinching now???
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: typhoon186</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been shooting an AR .308 and for Christmas, we gave my father-in-law a .308 bolt action. We were shooting the day after Christmas and I moved over from my AR to his Bolt Action. I guess I wasn't thinking about the difference. First shot and I got my safety glasses rammed up the bridge of my nose by the scope. The AR is much easier to shot. Hardly any recoild compared to a bolt action. That will have an affect on accuracy after a few shots.</div></div>
I actually hadn't thought about that, I figured a bolt action would have the same recoil as an AR. Wouldn't it be based on the cartridge size and if you have a muzzle break? Or is it that the force used on the bolt to reload the AR cuts a chunk of the recoil energy?
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

You can get a Daniel Defense or BCM 556 and a remy sps tactical for around 2k and spend the rest on ammo and optics.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

If your budget is 3-4K I think you could get a quality AR and bolt gun in 308. Might take some careful shopping but you can find a used POF 308 for around $2000, and then find a remington 700 VSF or Savage 10 FP for around 6-800. Leaves you with 1200 for a quality scope - get a Sightron SIII for around 800 and you still have 400 for rings, bases and some ammo!
Just a thought.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

Yes, a 308 AR with a good scope will be accurate from 600-800 yards. As others have mentioned, a 5.56 AR-15 with 77 SMKs will do well at that range. Last week I had a first round hit at 820 yards (15x20in target) on a unfamiliar range with 5mph crosswind. This with 77gr SMK handloads through an 18in SS barrelled LMT MRP with an SS 3-9 scope. There was a fair amount of luck as far as the wind, but I know my rifle and load. It is very consistent at 600 yards and I was nailing the 3 inch heart on a target at 350 yards just about every time.

Have you shot many bolt guns or ARs? I find bolt guns MUCH easier to shoot. Especially when it comes to being accurate and more importantly consistent. Last week my 13 year old nephew was hitting a 15x20 inch target at 992 yards about 70% of time in 5-10mph crosswind with my suppressed 260 TRG. He commented that it does not even kick. My brother shot maybe twenty rounds through it and finished with a 4 inch three shot group at 992 yards. He then tried a headshot on the 5x5in head at 992 yards and hit it first try. Neither my brother or nephew had shot past 200 yards before. I was dialing scope and telling them where to hold but they found it very easy to shoot well. They were much less consistent with the AR format.

Have you held a 308 AR? They are pretty large and heavy. Put one next to an AR-15 and you will see what I mean. An AR-15 with an 18" barrel and 3-9 scope is a very versatile setup. If you want something for close and personal put a red dot scope on it.

You also mention shooting to 1200+ yards, being somewhat concerned about recoil, and that you plan on reloading your ammunition. The 308 is not the best tool for your description. Get a 6.5mm (260 Rem, 6.5CM, etc) and it will have less recoil, still be supersonic past 1200 yards, have much less wind drift than a 308, and I find very easy to reload (I just started reloading myself).

Good luck. Figuring all this out is part of the fun.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

I dont take my bolt guns out unless I'm shooting beyond 600 yards anymore. My SPR/MK12 and Clark gator are both capable out to that distance and pleasurable and affordable to shoot.

At a distance, I prefer the extra velocity of a bolt gun and like the ability to more easily harvest the brass with less damage too it. That being said I do have a 6.5CM DPMS on order that I expect glorious things out of if it is anywhere near as accurate as my 308 DPMS.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

Shoot, ya outta buy an M1A SuperMatch for that kinda cash. Talk about a semi-auto .308 shooter. Could still drop a grand on the glass and have a freakin 1k monster.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scouter19D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shoot, ya outta buy an M1A SuperMatch for that kinda cash. Talk about a semi-auto .308 shooter. Could still drop a grand on the glass and have a freakin 1k monster.</div></div>

if your M1A supermatch shoots well at 1000 yards there must be something TERRIBLY wrong with mine!
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

Go with the JP LRP 07! I have one and it's more accurate than my custom bolt gun. If you're going to spend 3-4K you're right in their price range.
You won't regret it...
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

For what your purpose and budget, I'd go with a GAP-10 with an 18" barrel. That will outshoot many bolt guns and give you hits 800 and beyond if you do your part. You can roll the dice with other options, or have a sure bet with the GAP-10.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

I'm not a huge fan of anything shorter than 22" on a .308 unless you are going to shoot suppressed and subsonic. There are plenty of .308 AR's on the market, no single one is going to be a sure-bet while others are sub-par.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

Thank you everyone for all the feedback. After reading all of this and really thinking about what the goal for this weapon is, I have decided a bolt action is going to be my best bet.

I truly appreciate the information and opinions everyone provided.
Now to find a place I can test a rifle or two before buying one.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

I think you've waded through some BS here and made the right decision. I always feel better seeing guys learn with a bolt act. AR's are NOT easier to shoot than a BA. They may kick a little less but not enough to make a difference. Some things like follow through, trigger control and how you shoulder the rifle are much more critical when shooting an AR... or said another way...bolt actions are much more forgiving with mistakes here. Dont get me wrong, I've got two AR10's and I luv shootin them, they can be deadly accurate when shot right. After you are comfortable with the BA, get an AR and add a new twist.
wink.gif


okie
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

I can run my gas gun slow as a bolt gun - but no way you can run a bolt gun fast enough when you need to but lots of lead down range.
( same as a revolver vs. semi auto pistol )
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can run my gas gun slow as a bolt gun - but no way you can run a bolt gun fast enough when you need to but lots of lead down range.
( same as a revolver vs. semi auto pistol )</div></div>

That's a very good comparison and one that I'll have to remember.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

I had to make this same choice and went with the .308 bolt action as well. Then I got a AR after I saved more funds.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

Save on the ammo costs and build up a nice 308 LR bolt action.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can run my gas gun slow as a bolt gun - but no way you can run a bolt gun fast enough when you need to but lots of lead down range.
( same as a revolver vs. semi auto pistol )</div></div>

That's a very good comparison and one that I'll have to remember. </div></div>

Actually, Jerry Miculek empties his revolver faster than you can with an auto.. just saying.
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GlockandRoll</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can run my gas gun slow as a bolt gun - but no way you can run a bolt gun fast enough when you need to but lots of lead down range.
( same as a revolver vs. semi auto pistol )</div></div>

That's a very good comparison and one that I'll have to remember. </div></div>

Actually, Jerry Miculek empties his revolver faster than you can with an auto.. just saying. </div></div>

Hahah true statement!
 
Re: 308 caliber AR vs a 308 Bolt Action Decision Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GlockandRoll</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scouter19D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shoot, ya outta buy an M1A SuperMatch for that kinda cash. Talk about a semi-auto .308 shooter. Could still drop a grand on the glass and have a freakin 1k monster.</div></div>

if your M1A supermatch shoots well at 1000 yards there must be something TERRIBLY wrong with mine! </div></div>

Well I don't have a SuperMatch, but I have noticed my M1A is the most finicky piece of crap when it comes to what ammo it likes, and the other 99% that it doesn't. Sure its true of a lot of em.
 
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