.308 shilen problem
- Thread starter Josebd
- Start date
Measure your pre fired case diameter and then your "bumped" case diameter and you will have your answer.
After the brass is fire formed to your chamber and resized you probably won't have the issue anymore. The Hornady brass probably has a more relaxed radius on the unfired shoulder.
Where did you get the Lapua brass? Pre-fired or virgin?
If it is pre-fired, then it is highly likely to be one of two things:
- You didn't bump it back far enough for the new chamber
- The new chamber is smaller diameter than both the other chamber and your sizing die
I have the second issue on my new 300 PRC. It is MUCH smaller than my last - same reamer, same barrel, different CNC machine (more accurate, less wobble). When I tested shooting two rounds with brass from my last barrel, the first one got stuck - didn't shoot the second.
Why isn't the factory Hornady having issues? Factory ammo is to the small side of tolerances.
When shooting pre-fired brass from a different chamber, make sure you go to the range with a push rod to extract stuck brass. Though I would recommend first going and firing some of that Hornady and measuring off the fired cases.
If it is pre-fired, then it is highly likely to be one of two things:
- You didn't bump it back far enough for the new chamber
- The new chamber is smaller diameter than both the other chamber and your sizing die
I have the second issue on my new 300 PRC. It is MUCH smaller than my last - same reamer, same barrel, different CNC machine (more accurate, less wobble). When I tested shooting two rounds with brass from my last barrel, the first one got stuck - didn't shoot the second.
Why isn't the factory Hornady having issues? Factory ammo is to the small side of tolerances.
When shooting pre-fired brass from a different chamber, make sure you go to the range with a push rod to extract stuck brass. Though I would recommend first going and firing some of that Hornady and measuring off the fired cases.
Recommendations:
- Mark a few pieces of brass with a Sharpie, put them in with mark straight up, and then extract and see if the marring on the brass is in the same place with respect to the mark.
- Get a chamber mop (you should have one anyway), and clean out the chamber.
Those marks lower the chances that shoulder bumping is the issue. I'd lean toward it being a smaller chamber - or potentially debris.
Any shell holder should work with the othe brand die. There might be slightly more or less of a difference in height from one shell holder to another requiring you to adjust the die accordingly but that shouldn’t preclude you from using a redding die with any other brand shell holder than you already have.
Measure the shoulder on the factory ammo that chambers just fine. Now measure your sized rounds that you bumped the shoulder on and compare the measurements. My guess is that the factory ammo has a shoulder measurement that is still shorter than your sized cases. If this is the case you just need to bump the shoulder back some more until it matches the factory dimensions.
If you set the barrel on a go gauge so that it just barely closes your chamber is set to minimum length. Factory ammo is manufactured to fit into minimum chambers so it is usually .001" - .002" short of minimum to guarantee it will chamber.
I recently had the same issue with a Remington 700 barrel I installed. I set it so the bolt would barely close on my headspace gauge. Factory Federal Match would chamber but rounds I'd loaded for another rifle would not. Federal rounds were .001" - .002" shorter than my headspace gauge.
If you set the barrel on a go gauge so that it just barely closes your chamber is set to minimum length. Factory ammo is manufactured to fit into minimum chambers so it is usually .001" - .002" short of minimum to guarantee it will chamber.
I recently had the same issue with a Remington 700 barrel I installed. I set it so the bolt would barely close on my headspace gauge. Factory Federal Match would chamber but rounds I'd loaded for another rifle would not. Federal rounds were .001" - .002" shorter than my headspace gauge.
Figure out exactly what is going on first. You can't do that without getting cases fired from your chamber. Fire some Hornady and do some measuring.
If it turns out your chamber is small, you might need a small base or custom die. Then again, you might be on the cusp of needing a die, and perhaps your existing die will work well enough to keep cases only fired in your chamber in check, but larger cases needing to be sized down will spring back to a size that's too large.
- Fire Hornady
- Measure and compare
- Maybe get new Lapua and use that instead of pre-fired.
If you cam over on the resizing die or body die - you will usually find chambering to be a tad easier.
It sucks not to be able to use your pre-fired Lapua, but I bet you'll find new will work fine, perhaps with your current die.
As mentioned above, I'm having this "issue" with my 300 PRC. I had a custom FL sizing die made for my last 300. I was worried it wouldn't size down the brass enough for the new, but through 5 firings it is keeping the brass to size - the same die that couldn't size down brass fired through my other chamber.
As an aside, I also have an old Hornady die that wouldn't even allow pre-fired cases to chamber.
Went and shot the factory hornady round,no hard lift before or after,but the brass did have a scratch ,I dont guess its not anything to worry about if it dont get any worse,right?
Pictures show the scratch and shoulder length after firing,it was .045 loaded
Pictures show the scratch and shoulder length after firing,it was .045 loaded
What is the difference between a new unfired case diameter and one that you fired? After running this case through your shoulder bump routine you stated that the case is the same as a fired case. This is your answer. You need to size the body of the case. You determine how that happens.
If you had read post #6 you would have had your answer already.
If you had read post #6 you would have had your answer already.
Yes, I have a few Savage rifles and yes there are many many many Savage barrels with a tight chamber. Factory ammo good to go. Cases with shoulder bump only. Not so much.
Look at the chamber with a bore scope. The case could be getting scratched coming out of the magazine. Look for rough edges on the mag.
Are you loading single into the chamber or are you stripping from the mag with the bolt?
If you have the mag loaded up are they catching the feed lip or something else. Before going into chamber? You had the barrel off and cleaned the chamber so I would think that you may have noticed a burr in there. Either way it wouldn't bother me. It's not a significant gouge or dent in the brass.
If you have the mag loaded up are they catching the feed lip or something else. Before going into chamber? You had the barrel off and cleaned the chamber so I would think that you may have noticed a burr in there. Either way it wouldn't bother me. It's not a significant gouge or dent in the brass.
Carefully remove a case from the chamber and restrain it with your fingers. Maybe the scratch is from ejecting.
Most likely when you decide how you are going to re-size the body of the brass. That scratch may disappear. Then again maybe not. It's insignificant. It's not an actual indentation in the brass.
It's a Savage. You have already removed the barrel from the action so I can assume you are using a go no-go to head space. Set it back to factory maybe just a smidge under and full size your brass. Load up your brass and shoot it. You will find something that will shoot good. If you are really really bugged by this scratch. Send it back to Savage and have it fixed. (Don't lose your mind when they say. Unable to duplicate the problem). Or order another barrel from any number of makers and bolt it on and forget about yesterday. It's too damned heavy to carry around. <-----yesterday that is.
It's a Savage. You have already removed the barrel from the action so I can assume you are using a go no-go to head space. Set it back to factory maybe just a smidge under and full size your brass. Load up your brass and shoot it. You will find something that will shoot good. If you are really really bugged by this scratch. Send it back to Savage and have it fixed. (Don't lose your mind when they say. Unable to duplicate the problem). Or order another barrel from any number of makers and bolt it on and forget about yesterday. It's too damned heavy to carry around. <-----yesterday that is.
That scratch now looks like a single small piece of brass or other hard debris is in your chamber. Mop it out again and see what happens.
Ok,when I first installed this barrel,I use a go gage with a .002 shim on bolt head to set up the headspace.
After I tightened up barrel I rechecked it,it was ok,I set it to where the bolt wouldn't close with the .002 shim.
I think it was just to tight on the headspace, yesterday I set it up with a .003 shim,and with just some resistance closing bolt,now the brass i was trying before works great.
After I tightened up barrel I rechecked it,it was ok,I set it to where the bolt wouldn't close with the .002 shim.
I think it was just to tight on the headspace, yesterday I set it up with a .003 shim,and with just some resistance closing bolt,now the brass i was trying before works great.
So let me see if I understand this correctly. You set the barrel with a 0.002" shim on your Go gauge, which for a 308 would be 1.630" for a total of 1.632". This gave slight resistance when you chambered one of your rounds but no resistance with a factory loaded round. Instead of resetting your sizing die to bump the shoulder back slightly you add another 0.001" shim stock to the Go gauge so now you have a headspace of 1.633". Now your handloads will chamber without resistance and factory ammo loaded 0.001" - 0.002" shorter than the 1.630" minimum headspace are going to have 0.004" - 0.005" room to stretch when fired. Now a NoGo gauge is 1.634" so you only have 0.001" of wear margin before your bolt will close on the NoGo gauge.
Now it seems that those who are going after the best accuracy they can get are going for minimum dimensions and not maximum dimensions or looser tolerances. It's your gun and gear but if it was me I'd set the barrel using the Go gauge without any shim and reset your sizing die to bump the shoulder back to just under the 1.630" headspace. Brass will stretch less and last longer and your accuracy should be better.
Your choice.
Now it seems that those who are going after the best accuracy they can get are going for minimum dimensions and not maximum dimensions or looser tolerances. It's your gun and gear but if it was me I'd set the barrel using the Go gauge without any shim and reset your sizing die to bump the shoulder back to just under the 1.630" headspace. Brass will stretch less and last longer and your accuracy should be better.
Your choice.
