Hi Everyone-- I have a .308 and use Lapua brass and SIE 175 HPBT with CCI #34 primers -- I currently use Varget usually 42gn but wanted to get some of your opinions on your reloading data... espically your thoughts or use of XBR. I know that each weapon is different and you should use the incremental testing method and watch for pressure signs -- I just want to get input from the field and what you all have seen with accuracy of XBR vs. Varget.
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Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
It depends on your loading equipment, location, and needs. IMO the top 3 powders are:
Varget, H4895, and XBR. The XBR meters the best, 4895 has been the most accurate for us, and Varget is the most temp stable.
We use H4895 for 175s. We initially used Varget, and have tested extensively with XBR.
Again, I believe these are the top 3 of any powders available, from anyone, for the 308/175. ANY of them will be a great choice.
It depends on your loading equipment, location, and needs. IMO the top 3 powders are:
Varget, H4895, and XBR. The XBR meters the best, 4895 has been the most accurate for us, and Varget is the most temp stable.
We use H4895 for 175s. We initially used Varget, and have tested extensively with XBR.
Again, I believe these are the top 3 of any powders available, from anyone, for the 308/175. ANY of them will be a great choice.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
Im personally a fan of 44.0gr of Varget with 175SMKs out of a 26"+ barrel for 800+ yard accuracy. Up close (within 300 yards) IMR4895 has always worked well for me..
Im personally a fan of 44.0gr of Varget with 175SMKs out of a 26"+ barrel for 800+ yard accuracy. Up close (within 300 yards) IMR4895 has always worked well for me..
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Apophas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so you use 44gn of Varget. What is your MV? Any excessive pressure signs? </div></div>
I worked up to this load last weekend and saw no pressure signs, in fact the fired cases were exhibiting excessive sooting. I'll be trying some heavier loads soon. However in your rifle this may be a totally different story, I have to add the caveat, do your own load testing starting well below book max and watch for pressure signs!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Apophas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so you use 44gn of Varget. What is your MV? Any excessive pressure signs? </div></div>
I worked up to this load last weekend and saw no pressure signs, in fact the fired cases were exhibiting excessive sooting. I'll be trying some heavier loads soon. However in your rifle this may be a totally different story, I have to add the caveat, do your own load testing starting well below book max and watch for pressure signs!
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: In da weeds</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im personally a fan of 44.0gr of Varget with 175SMKs out of a 26"+ barrel for 800+ yard accuracy. Up close (within 300 yards) IMR4895 has always worked well for me.. </div></div>
I run 175smk's, 43.5gr Varget, FGMM 210m primers, in a Lapua case at 2.810 COAL and this load is very freaking accurate out of my suppressed 700p cut to 22". I've ran this out to 1350yds (yes, 1350) and made a good hit on a slightly undersized steel IDPA target with more dancing within inches of the target. Used up all the travel in my NF NXS, 20MOA base, and had to hold quite a few MOA over, but it worked! Was also ringing the steel at 1k with it 9/10 times as well (wind was quite favorable at the time).
No idea on the IMR as I've not found a reason to even think about changing my .308 load at all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: In da weeds</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im personally a fan of 44.0gr of Varget with 175SMKs out of a 26"+ barrel for 800+ yard accuracy. Up close (within 300 yards) IMR4895 has always worked well for me.. </div></div>
I run 175smk's, 43.5gr Varget, FGMM 210m primers, in a Lapua case at 2.810 COAL and this load is very freaking accurate out of my suppressed 700p cut to 22". I've ran this out to 1350yds (yes, 1350) and made a good hit on a slightly undersized steel IDPA target with more dancing within inches of the target. Used up all the travel in my NF NXS, 20MOA base, and had to hold quite a few MOA over, but it worked! Was also ringing the steel at 1k with it 9/10 times as well (wind was quite favorable at the time).
No idea on the IMR as I've not found a reason to even think about changing my .308 load at all.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
In my GAP w/ 22" Bartlein I run 45 gr Varget with 175 SMK. That has been the most accurate (.3 MOA). 1 in 11.25 twist
My APA with 22" Bartlein loves 42.7 gr IMR8208XBR w/ 175 SMK (1/2 MOA). It also shoots the 45 gr. Varget load well but won't match accuracy (usually one flyer) unless I drop to around 43 gr. there. 1 in 11.25 twist.
My APA w/ 18.5 Bartlein loves the max H4895 load. It will shoot the 45 gr Varget but opens from sub 1/2 MOA to just over 3/4 MOA. It is suppressed and 1 in 1 twist.
All this is to say you will just have to try 8208 for your self.
In my GAP w/ 22" Bartlein I run 45 gr Varget with 175 SMK. That has been the most accurate (.3 MOA). 1 in 11.25 twist
My APA with 22" Bartlein loves 42.7 gr IMR8208XBR w/ 175 SMK (1/2 MOA). It also shoots the 45 gr. Varget load well but won't match accuracy (usually one flyer) unless I drop to around 43 gr. there. 1 in 11.25 twist.
My APA w/ 18.5 Bartlein loves the max H4895 load. It will shoot the 45 gr Varget but opens from sub 1/2 MOA to just over 3/4 MOA. It is suppressed and 1 in 1 twist.
All this is to say you will just have to try 8208 for your self.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeSWammo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It depends on your loading equipment, location, and needs. IMO the top 3 powders are:
Varget, H4895, and XBR. The XBR meters the best, 4895 has been the most accurate for us, and Varget is the most temp stable.
We use H4895 for 175s. We initially used Varget, and have tested extensively with XBR.
Again, I believe these are the top 3 of any powders available, from anyone, for the 308/175. ANY of them will be a great choice.
</div></div>
My exact experience. Best groups with 4895.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeSWammo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It depends on your loading equipment, location, and needs. IMO the top 3 powders are:
Varget, H4895, and XBR. The XBR meters the best, 4895 has been the most accurate for us, and Varget is the most temp stable.
We use H4895 for 175s. We initially used Varget, and have tested extensively with XBR.
Again, I believe these are the top 3 of any powders available, from anyone, for the 308/175. ANY of them will be a great choice.
</div></div>
My exact experience. Best groups with 4895.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
I have shot a 2.52" group at 534 if not more with 44.7 grains of IMR 4064 winchester brass at 2.005 federal 210M primer and coal of 2.800.
Reminton 700 SPS Tactical with 20" barrel.
I have shot a 2.52" group at 534 if not more with 44.7 grains of IMR 4064 winchester brass at 2.005 federal 210M primer and coal of 2.800.
Reminton 700 SPS Tactical with 20" barrel.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
my load for 175 SMK is 43.5 of varget.....ho or cold it has never let me down and shoots well.....out of a remington 5r w/ 24" barrel
my load for 175 SMK is 43.5 of varget.....ho or cold it has never let me down and shoots well.....out of a remington 5r w/ 24" barrel
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
Add me to the happy with 43.5 gr of Varget, 175 gr SMK, Lapua brass and CCI BR2 crowd. 2.82 OAL in Remington 700P with 26" bbl.
With Winchester brass, it's 44 gr Varget.
Add me to the happy with 43.5 gr of Varget, 175 gr SMK, Lapua brass and CCI BR2 crowd. 2.82 OAL in Remington 700P with 26" bbl.
With Winchester brass, it's 44 gr Varget.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
I have tested 8208 xbr over half a dozen bullets out of two 308 rifles. A 5R milspec and a win m70. This powder has shown to be more insensitive to temperature between chrony sessions of 70deg. F and 25 deg. F for me than published numbers for H-4895 and Varget have shown here. This powder has shown to have large sweet spots on bullets from 150gr-180 gr including the 175smk for me. I am loading win and fed cases with fed 210 and fed 210m's. I would try it. I intend to switch entirely to this powder for 308, and 223 if it tests out as well as others have shown for that caliber. I am on my 3rd pound and have an 8lb jug in the works. This powder meters better than varget or H-4895 ever dreamed to for me, and I intend to load my match loads on a hornady LNL AP from now on using this powder.
I have tested 8208 xbr over half a dozen bullets out of two 308 rifles. A 5R milspec and a win m70. This powder has shown to be more insensitive to temperature between chrony sessions of 70deg. F and 25 deg. F for me than published numbers for H-4895 and Varget have shown here. This powder has shown to have large sweet spots on bullets from 150gr-180 gr including the 175smk for me. I am loading win and fed cases with fed 210 and fed 210m's. I would try it. I intend to switch entirely to this powder for 308, and 223 if it tests out as well as others have shown for that caliber. I am on my 3rd pound and have an 8lb jug in the works. This powder meters better than varget or H-4895 ever dreamed to for me, and I intend to load my match loads on a hornady LNL AP from now on using this powder.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
my 308 loves 42.7g of 8208 with the 175mk, also my powder for my 223 sps tac.
my 308 loves 42.7g of 8208 with the 175mk, also my powder for my 223 sps tac.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
46.5gr of Varget with 175SMK's with CCI br2 primers. it shoots around 2720fps and is actually more accurate for me than my lower fps rounds. Out of a 1 in 12" twist stock 700 police barrel. Sub 1/2 MOA with the bullet seated .001 inch off the rifling, COL 2.920".
46.5gr of Varget with 175SMK's with CCI br2 primers. it shoots around 2720fps and is actually more accurate for me than my lower fps rounds. Out of a 1 in 12" twist stock 700 police barrel. Sub 1/2 MOA with the bullet seated .001 inch off the rifling, COL 2.920".
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
Im currently shooting 45.0 grains varget with 175 smk... shoots pretty good so far.
Im currently shooting 45.0 grains varget with 175 smk... shoots pretty good so far.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
With 46.5gr of Varget isnt that a compressed load for you? The load data I have shows 45 as max and it is compressed ... any excessive pressure signs?
I am currently increasing my loads slowly and I have only tested to 44gr and that is pretty full...
With 46.5gr of Varget isnt that a compressed load for you? The load data I have shows 45 as max and it is compressed ... any excessive pressure signs?
I am currently increasing my loads slowly and I have only tested to 44gr and that is pretty full...
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Apophas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With 46.5gr of Varget isnt that a compressed load for you? The load data I have shows 45 as max and it is compressed ... any excessive pressure signs?
I am currently increasing my loads slowly and I have only tested to 44gr and that is pretty full... </div></div>
+1, Exactly what I was thinkiing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Apophas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With 46.5gr of Varget isnt that a compressed load for you? The load data I have shows 45 as max and it is compressed ... any excessive pressure signs?
I am currently increasing my loads slowly and I have only tested to 44gr and that is pretty full... </div></div>
+1, Exactly what I was thinkiing.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Apophas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With 46.5gr of Varget isnt that a compressed load for you? The load data I have shows 45 as max and it is compressed ... any excessive pressure signs?
I am currently increasing my loads slowly and I have only tested to 44gr and that is pretty full...</div></div>
Different brass has slightly different volume, and lapua brass is fairly thick, so it has less internal volume than say hornady brass. Also depends on whether his OAL is longer than your. His 2.92" is pretty long. Also, if you hold your finger over the top of the case and tap the bottom of the case on something for a little bit, you can fit more into a case without crunching the top kernels when seating the bullet. Obviously you want to make sure you don't tap super hard on the primer
. I wouldn't be at all concerned about running a compressed load, as long as you aren't seeing any pressure signs. Compressed loads with varget tend to run great for me, just work up with caution.
My load is:
Lapua Brass
175 SMK or VLD (both shoot great with this load)
43.5 gr. Varget
2.84" COAL using SMK, 2.885" COAL using VLD
These OAL's are a .018" jump for me.
2745fps from a 26" bbl.
Edit: Oh, and Fed 210m primers
I would just work up from your 42 gr to 43.5 in .5 gr increments. If you don't see any pressure signs, then I would continue in .25 gr increments.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Apophas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With 46.5gr of Varget isnt that a compressed load for you? The load data I have shows 45 as max and it is compressed ... any excessive pressure signs?
I am currently increasing my loads slowly and I have only tested to 44gr and that is pretty full...</div></div>
Different brass has slightly different volume, and lapua brass is fairly thick, so it has less internal volume than say hornady brass. Also depends on whether his OAL is longer than your. His 2.92" is pretty long. Also, if you hold your finger over the top of the case and tap the bottom of the case on something for a little bit, you can fit more into a case without crunching the top kernels when seating the bullet. Obviously you want to make sure you don't tap super hard on the primer
My load is:
Lapua Brass
175 SMK or VLD (both shoot great with this load)
43.5 gr. Varget
2.84" COAL using SMK, 2.885" COAL using VLD
These OAL's are a .018" jump for me.
2745fps from a 26" bbl.
Edit: Oh, and Fed 210m primers
I would just work up from your 42 gr to 43.5 in .5 gr increments. If you don't see any pressure signs, then I would continue in .25 gr increments.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
It also depends on the throat of the rifle, remingtons have super long throats and sometimes I wonder if it ever ends. I have a match chamber in one rifle in that 2.850 is the farthest I can seat bullets with a .010 jump, but If I load VLDs I usually load into the the lands or .001 jump and those are around 2.889. I mistakenly put 43.7 Varget 175 berger VLD, nosler cases, br-2s, and I was having pressure issues. (My load for the VLDs is usally 43.5.)I shoot 175smk through the TRG and I load them at 43.7 and 2.800 Remington Brass(I shoot the cheap stuff through the trg) Here are 5 shot groups out of the TRG with the above load.
I have found the TRG doesn't really care what you put in it and it will shot 1/2 MOA, So I haven't put any thought in the load development.
It also depends on the throat of the rifle, remingtons have super long throats and sometimes I wonder if it ever ends. I have a match chamber in one rifle in that 2.850 is the farthest I can seat bullets with a .010 jump, but If I load VLDs I usually load into the the lands or .001 jump and those are around 2.889. I mistakenly put 43.7 Varget 175 berger VLD, nosler cases, br-2s, and I was having pressure issues. (My load for the VLDs is usally 43.5.)I shoot 175smk through the TRG and I load them at 43.7 and 2.800 Remington Brass(I shoot the cheap stuff through the trg) Here are 5 shot groups out of the TRG with the above load.
I have found the TRG doesn't really care what you put in it and it will shot 1/2 MOA, So I haven't put any thought in the load development.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
Actually, i've gone up to 47grains. at 46.5gr in Hornady brass, the bullet does sit on top of the powder, probably touching it, i don't think it compresses. No signs of pressure problems at 46.5gr in a 1 in 12 twist 26" barrel. Btw...I did use the bore finish product in my rifle (loaded up fine grit bullets to refinish the barrel) and it did reduce pressure and smooth our rough spots in the barrel. However, at 47 grains I have seen the primer pancake a bit. These are all above max amounts so work up slowly...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Apophas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With 46.5gr of Varget isnt that a compressed load for you? The load data I have shows 45 as max and it is compressed ... any excessive pressure signs?
I am currently increasing my loads slowly and I have only tested to 44gr and that is pretty full... </div></div>
Actually, i've gone up to 47grains. at 46.5gr in Hornady brass, the bullet does sit on top of the powder, probably touching it, i don't think it compresses. No signs of pressure problems at 46.5gr in a 1 in 12 twist 26" barrel. Btw...I did use the bore finish product in my rifle (loaded up fine grit bullets to refinish the barrel) and it did reduce pressure and smooth our rough spots in the barrel. However, at 47 grains I have seen the primer pancake a bit. These are all above max amounts so work up slowly...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Apophas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With 46.5gr of Varget isnt that a compressed load for you? The load data I have shows 45 as max and it is compressed ... any excessive pressure signs?
I am currently increasing my loads slowly and I have only tested to 44gr and that is pretty full... </div></div>
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
42.5 varget in nosler comp brass with fed 210m/cci250 .It is very accurate out of my Rem700 M40a1 24" rock runs at 2615fps. Xbr at 42.7gns gives me a very accurate one hole (three shots)load with 175s.
42.5 varget in nosler comp brass with fed 210m/cci250 .It is very accurate out of my Rem700 M40a1 24" rock runs at 2615fps. Xbr at 42.7gns gives me a very accurate one hole (three shots)load with 175s.
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Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
I use 175smk pretty much exclusively in my DPMS SASS and my Rem 700 AAC, they both have a 1:10 Twist, and after experimenting, i found a load they both love, and its 42.1g RL-15 at 2.810" with Fed Primers in Win Brass, they both easily shoot 3/4" at 100. Its getting to the time where I need to make some more 308 rounds, so I might try some varget again, 43-44 seems to be a pretty good range to try to find a hot spot in so gonna try those.
I use 175smk pretty much exclusively in my DPMS SASS and my Rem 700 AAC, they both have a 1:10 Twist, and after experimenting, i found a load they both love, and its 42.1g RL-15 at 2.810" with Fed Primers in Win Brass, they both easily shoot 3/4" at 100. Its getting to the time where I need to make some more 308 rounds, so I might try some varget again, 43-44 seems to be a pretty good range to try to find a hot spot in so gonna try those.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
Actually I don't use either one. My best results have come from Reloader-15.
Rem 700P 26" barrrel 1 In 12 twist.
Horus Falcon Scope, Grid in .2 Mils. Turrets in .1 mil.
Lapua Brass full prep and trim 2.005, Use new brass for fouling shots only.
Neck sized only after first firing. No shoulder bump until necessary
CCI-200 primers
175 Gn. SMK, metplat trimmed, Hollow point internal burrs cleaned by hand with a small number drill bit (first).
Then sorted by weight +/-.1 Gn. Then each weight group sorted by ogive to base +/-.001".
42.8 Gn. R-15 tripple weighed.
Bullet seated in three steps, rotating case 120 deg each time.
Ogive to case base length 2.082. +/- 0. (Adjust as necessary as throat wears).
Check bullet alignment in case, adjust if necessary to maintain +/-.0001" runout.
Chrono at 10' off muzzle 2647-2652 FPS. @85deg. 2800' Alt.
Lots of work, but holding a 10" group at 1000 Yds. with a <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">FACTORY RIFLE</span></span>.
Actually I don't use either one. My best results have come from Reloader-15.
Rem 700P 26" barrrel 1 In 12 twist.
Horus Falcon Scope, Grid in .2 Mils. Turrets in .1 mil.
Lapua Brass full prep and trim 2.005, Use new brass for fouling shots only.
Neck sized only after first firing. No shoulder bump until necessary
CCI-200 primers
175 Gn. SMK, metplat trimmed, Hollow point internal burrs cleaned by hand with a small number drill bit (first).
Then sorted by weight +/-.1 Gn. Then each weight group sorted by ogive to base +/-.001".
42.8 Gn. R-15 tripple weighed.
Bullet seated in three steps, rotating case 120 deg each time.
Ogive to case base length 2.082. +/- 0. (Adjust as necessary as throat wears).
Check bullet alignment in case, adjust if necessary to maintain +/-.0001" runout.
Chrono at 10' off muzzle 2647-2652 FPS. @85deg. 2800' Alt.
Lots of work, but holding a 10" group at 1000 Yds. with a <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">FACTORY RIFLE</span></span>.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
I have a 700 Varmint 26 in a m24 stock. Just picked up some 8208 xbr and some new Win .308 cases. What is a good start point for the 175smk? My rifle has a really long throat too.
I have a 700 Varmint 26 in a m24 stock. Just picked up some 8208 xbr and some new Win .308 cases. What is a good start point for the 175smk? My rifle has a really long throat too.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
I'm currently using 45.4 grains of varget with the 175 at 2.805 OAL. It shoots very accurately out of my tac ops 20'' echo 51. I also had a huge accuracy node from 43.3 to 44.5, but went with the higher velocity load. Anywhere between 43 and 44 grains of varget with the 175 SMK seems to shoot well in most 308's.
I'm currently using 45.4 grains of varget with the 175 at 2.805 OAL. It shoots very accurately out of my tac ops 20'' echo 51. I also had a huge accuracy node from 43.3 to 44.5, but went with the higher velocity load. Anywhere between 43 and 44 grains of varget with the 175 SMK seems to shoot well in most 308's.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
I gave Varget a try for many many many rounds. I wanted to like it because of its temp stability. But I can never get it to shoot as well as IMR4895. I have since given up on it.
I gave Varget a try for many many many rounds. I wanted to like it because of its temp stability. But I can never get it to shoot as well as IMR4895. I have since given up on it.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Remi308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 700 Varmint 26 in a m24 stock. Just picked up some 8208 xbr and some new Win .308 cases. What is a good start point for the 175smk? My rifle has a really long throat too. </div></div>
Start should be about 40-41 grains.
Is your rifle painted tan and some other color? If so I might have seen it for sale on calguns.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Remi308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 700 Varmint 26 in a m24 stock. Just picked up some 8208 xbr and some new Win .308 cases. What is a good start point for the 175smk? My rifle has a really long throat too. </div></div>
Start should be about 40-41 grains.
Is your rifle painted tan and some other color? If so I might have seen it for sale on calguns.
Re: .308 SIE 175 --- Varget or IMR 8208 XBR
Reloader 15 is a good powder too. 43.0 grs. duplicates the M118LR load.
I like Fed 210M primers with Varget. My SD's of 4 and 5fps are a little tighter than the Br-2's (SD's of 5-6fps).
Reloader 15 is a good powder too. 43.0 grs. duplicates the M118LR load.
I like Fed 210M primers with Varget. My SD's of 4 and 5fps are a little tighter than the Br-2's (SD's of 5-6fps).
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